Graham Dwyer court case *READ FIRST POST BEFORE POSTING*

nokia69

take everything wrote: »

I can only imagine what his poor wife must be thinking of it all.
I'm still baffled how his wife stayed with for so long.

because he was living a double life

his wife had no idea about what he was doing on the side

Menas

take everything wrote: »

I can only imagine what his poor wife must be thinking of it all.
I'm still baffled how his wife stayed with for so long.

Well, she did leave him the minute he was arrested..and there is no evidence that she knew anything about his extra curricular activities.
I think he simply led two lives. 1) The perfect family and career man. 2) The man who killed Elaine O Hara.

Roquentin

Menas wrote: »

Well, she did leave him the minute he was arrested..and there is no evidence that she knew anything about his extra curricular activities.
I think he simply led two lives. 1) The perfect family and career man. 2) The man who killed Elaine O Hara.

ted bundy was able to do the same. the people who knew him said he couldnt be a serial killer. Even a psychologist at some university said there was no way he could have done what he done.

these narcissistic/antisocial people are well able to live double lives. they are so charming as well and lack empathy. dwyer fits the criteria no question

newcuk

Im from the UK so I didn't know anything about this case as it wasn't in our media, until one of our newspapers posted an article about it at the end of the trial - I've followed many criminal cases and Ive heard nothing like this - so shocking and upsetting. This stuff about his new woman is ridiculous. Firstly in that he should be allowed contact with no one other than immediate family - I dont know much about the Irish prison service but please tell me she will never be allowed to visit him again now she's been banned? I can't believe she's been interviewed etc - very attention seeking. What a stupid idea on his behalf (not that he is sane) to allow her to visit him and start a relationship with her - that isn't exactly encouraging for any family members who continue to visit him.I feel so bad for Elaine's family as well as his wife and kids who are trying to pick up the dishes and can probably not avoid hearing about this every other week.

Roquentin

newcuk wrote: »

Im from the UK so I didn't know anything about this case as it wasn't in our media, until one of our newspapers posted an article about it at the end of the trial - I've followed many criminal cases and Ive heard nothing like this - so shocking and upsetting. This stuff about his new woman is ridiculous. Firstly in that he should be allowed contact with no one other than immediate family - I dont know much about the Irish prison service but please tell me she will never be allowed to visit him again now she's been banned? I can't believe she's been interviewed etc - very attention seeking. What a stupid idea on his behalf (not that he is sane) to allow her to visit him and start a relationship with her - that isn't exactly encouraging for any family members who continue to visit him.I feel so bad for Elaine's family as well as his wife and kids who are trying to pick up the dishes and can probably not avoid hearing about this every other week.

this would barely have made the news in britain. i think sky had a story about when he was found guilty but after that it disappeared. not trying to sound rude but dywer pales in comparison to peter suttcliff, denis nilsen or fred and rose west or harold shipman.

newcuk

Roquentin wrote: »

this would barely have made the news in britain. i think sky had a story about when he was found guilty but after that it disappeared. not trying to sound rude but dywer pales in comparison to peter suttcliff, denis nilsen or fred and rose west or harold shipman.

It didn't at all! I follow several news sites everyday , I first read about this on a Guardian article which mentioned it in regards to 50 shades of grey. I agree with you in that there are some much 'worse' cases that have happened over here such as the ones you mentioned but this case is just so unusual I couldn't get my head around it.

Roquentin

newcuk wrote: »

It didn't at all! I follow several news sites everyday , I first read about this on a Guardian article which mentioned it in regards to 50 shades of grey. I agree with you in that there are some much 'worse' cases that have happened over here such as the ones you mentioned but this case is just so unusual I couldn't get my head around it.

again not trying to sound condescending but its relatively simple understand dwyers mentality. he had an addiction or compulsion to this specific type of domination. he got a high out of being dominant and in power and seeing blood etc.

the same with ted bundy or jeffrey dahmer or chikatilo. they obtained pleasure from usual fantasies. just as a normal person may have an urge to smoke or have coffee etc. but their compulsion was extremely violent. like a lot of serial killers they have to kill to fuel their compulsion. what you try to resist persists said Jung.

ted bundy for example was in state custody in utah. he escaped to florida and said he would live a quiet life (as in avoid trouble). he couldnt however. within three months he broke into a college dorm and killed two/three girls, violently it must be said.

dwyer like bundy would have been antisocial/narcissistic and an addicted to killing people. dwyer tried to get someone else i believe to partake in his fantasies. it wouldnt surprize me if he had killed before. Someone who was off the radar and that people wouldnt notice had gone etc.

the thing about dwyer that captured attention was that like bundy he was highly intelligent (architect). if he were from a poorer background, it probably wouldnt have made as much impact.

newcuk

Roquentin wrote: »

again not trying to sound condescending but its relatively simple understand dwyers mentality. he had an addiction or compulsion to this specific type of domination. he got a high out of being dominant and in power and seeing blood etc.

the same with ted bundy or jeffrey dahmer or chikatilo. they obtained pleasure from usual fantasies. just as a normal person may have an urge to smoke or have coffee etc. but their compulsion was extremely violent. like a lot of serial killers they have to kill to fuel their compulsion. what you try to resist persists said Jung.

ted bundy for example was in state custody in utah. he escaped to florida and said he would live a quiet life (as in avoid trouble). he couldnt however. within three months he broke into a college dorm and killed two/three girls, violently it must be said.

dwyer like bundy would have been antisocial/narcissistic and an addicted to killing people. dwyer tried to get someone else i believe to partake in his fantasies. it wouldnt surprize me if he had killed before. Someone who was off the radar and that people wouldnt notice had gone etc.

the thing about dwyer that captured attention was that like bundy he was highly intelligent (architect). if he were from a poorer background, it probably wouldnt have made as much impact.

For me it was how he managed to live a double life and how his family suspected nothing of it, that I couldn't understand. But then I suppose that can be explained by him being a narcissist or something. With the bundy case ( I'm not too familiar with it) - you say he killed again in 3 months?. It makes me wonder if dwyer killed again after Elaine. I also wonder if he continued meeting up with people but these are things I suppose we will probably never find out. I did read that they're looking into unsolved murders in the area to see if he's connected with any of them - it makes you wonder.

Roquentin

newcuk wrote: »

For me it was how he managed to live a double life and how his family suspected nothing of it, that I couldn't understand. But then I suppose that can be explained by him being a narcissist or something. With the bundy case ( I'm not too familiar with it) - you say he killed again in 3 months?. It makes me wonder if dwyer killed again after Elaine. I also wonder if he continued meeting up with people but these are things I suppose we will probably never find out. I did read that they're looking into unsolved murders in the area to see if he's connected with any of them - it makes you wonder.

he could have killed before elaine, he could have killed after or he may not have done either. but i would say without question he would have killed again eventually had he not been caught.

there are lots of videos on the subject on youtube and lots of books about notorius serial killers particularly in america. very interesting.

you see a pattern in them. some go after prostitutes. some just target random people.

ann rule who is a true crime writer once said: that why they kill is more fascinating than how they kill. she has some very interesting books.

Diamond Doll

Roquentin wrote: »

he could have killed before elaine, he could have killed after or he may not have done either. but i would say without question he would have killed again eventually had he not been caught.

My own thinking is that Elaine was the first person he killed. He often mentioned in the text communications about his urge to kill, the big deal he made out of stabbing the sheep, etc. I think if he'd killed in the past, he would at some point have told her about it (and he obviously didn't expect the texts between them to ever be found.)

I completely agree that he would have killed again, and quite possibly did between the time Elaine was killed and the time he was arrested. Having done it once and (as far as he was concerned) got away with it, I doubt he could have resisted the temptation to do it again. It seems he was/is skilled at gaining the trust of vulnerable women. How many other "Elaines" was he in touch with, women with mental health issues and/or suicidal tendencies. Women who, when they vanished, had no one around to care for them or miss them - or who assumed that, when they vanished and didn't turn up, that they had killed themselves. He could have bought a new set of anonymous phones for his communication with each victim, which he could have easily destroyed afterwards. With the sense of arrogance that he'd gotten away with "the perfect murder" once, I'm quite certain he didn't wait too long before attempting it again. And he had plenty of time and opportunity to do so.

newcuk

I like independent i.e. on Facebook so its articles always come up on my feed - when one about this monster came up I read to comments and was shocked to see that his new "girlfriend" is commenting on them ,with one of the photos of him which were taken on the way out of court as her profile picture! I cannot believe how stupid this woman is - no respect for any of the victims! I hope she's never allowed to visit him again

tara73

newcuk wrote: »

I like independent i.e. on Facebook so its articles always come up on my feed - when one about this monster came up I read to comments and was shocked to see that his new "girlfriend" is commenting on them ,with one of the photos of him which were taken on the way out of court as her profile picture! I cannot believe how stupid this woman is - no respect for any of the victims! I hope she's never allowed to visit him again

yeah, and why do you feel the need to post this **** here? If you feel for the victims just don't pay attention to this ****e articles, because constant articles in the public like this is not helping both families, the o'Hara family and the Dwyer family to get over this mess, it's helping the media to still earn money on this case. disgrace.

mods, I think you should close this thread, it's just nonsense posting here.

BubbleBuddy

tara73 wrote: »

yeah, and why do you feel the need to post this **** here? If you feel for the victims just don't pay attention to this ****e articles, because constant articles in the public like this is not helping both families, the o'Hara family and the Dwyer family to get over this mess, it's helping the media to still earn money on this case. disgrace.

mods, I think you should close this thread, it's just nonsense posting here.

Tara, calm down. It's a forum for discussion with the thread title "read first before posting" offering users to log on and post about a topic which should of course include the media as that's where many people were updated throughout trial. If you don't like an article that other people choose to discuss, your choice is not to click on it or ignore it, as with the various news media. There's no need to attack.

Murder cases have always been discussed and reported on throughout history and the Dwyer Trial is no exception where unfortunately tabloid and broadsheets do make their money. The general public will still hone in on these tragedies, that won't change in the very near future.

Muahahaha

newcuk wrote: »

For me it was how he managed to live a double life and how his family suspected nothing of it, that I couldn't understand. But then I suppose that can be explained by him being a narcissist or something.

I'm the same, iirc there was 2,000+ text messages between Dwyer and O'Hara in the space of about 15 months. I just don't get how his wife never copped that he had a second (or even possibly third) mobile phone that was pretty active, averaging more than 100 texts a month received with him (presumably) replying more than 100 times a month. Whatever about him replying in work if he was texting and replying to her from his family home whilst playing the family man I find it weird that his wife never had suspicions that an affair was taking place. 100+ texts a month for 15 odd months is a lot when all it takes for your partner to raise suspicions is to catch you fumbling with a strange phone or walk into a room and see him texting on it.

That said I dont know much about psychopaths like Dwyer, do they tend to be expert/meticulous at covering their tracks? Maybe thats part of their modus operandi, that they have an ability to lead a double life without arousing any suspicion whatsoever?

Flippyfloppy

I may be mistaken but I thought I read that texts on the second phone were only sent during working hours.

nokia69

100 texts a month, is about 3 texts a day

he could have kept the phone a work where his wife would have zero chance of ever finding it

its possible his wife did think he was having an affair, but I doubt she ever thought he was planning a murder

I feel sorry for his wife, its not fair to say that she should have known what he was up to

tara73

BubbleBuddy wrote: »

Tara, calm down. It's a forum for discussion with the thread title "read first before posting" offering users to log on and post about a topic which should of course include the media as that's where many people were updated throughout trial.

are you a moderator? I don't think so. no need for you to explain stuff to me, which, additionally, is irrelevant to my post and therefore you are not getting my point: you are rightly saying: people were updated through the media during the trial, which is completely ok. but the trial is over, he's behind bars. So there's no discussion necessary about the trial anymore, the last posts here were gossiping, mainly about his 'new girlfriend'.
So my point was, that I think it's absolutely tasteless in consideration of the two families, the o'Hara family and the family of gemma dwyer, to discuss this sh**. they've gone through so much, so my strong opinion is, everybody who feeds the media with discussing this crap, should be told to stop it, if you like it or not.

BubbleBuddy wrote: »

If you don't like an article that other people choose to discuss, your choice is not to click on it or ignore it, as with the various news media. There's no need to attack.

again, are you a moderator? no! if the mods felt I attacked in an unapprobriate manner, I guess they are not that shy and would have called me out on it.

and yes, it's my choice to not click on it, to ignore it, or, you missed this: to write down my opinion on some peoples behaviour and the effect it might have . again, if you like it or not.

BubbleBuddy

Apologies slightly OFF TOPIC but murder trial related.

tara73 wrote: »

are you a moderator?

No. I am a person with free will responding to an irrational post in an open forum, to someone appearing to advise the actual mods and other users what they shouldn't be posting.

tara73 wrote: »

the trial is over, he's behind bars. So there's no discussion necessary about the trial anymore

Are you aware that people still discuss trials from hundreds of years ago (can you believe there's actually TV channels created on the very subject matter?) and Graham Dwyer's trial will no doubt be discussed decades from now, particularly considering the violent nature of the crime. Personally, I still talk about many trials, eg Malcolm MacArthur's trial (murderer from 1982) Maybe do some research on the topic of criminal trials the world over to see for yourself.

tara73 wrote: »

I think it's absolutely tasteless ... should be told to stop it, if you like it or not.

I would agree, there are families involved that have had to deal with much we couldn't begin to know. However, there are thousands upon thousands of families in the same position and offensive as it is to the human senses, it is part of life and as we're all aware, very much part of the media. What will you say when Ireland starts allowing cameras into courtrooms in the future? When it does, I must remember to just skip over your form of post, assuming you haven't attempted to ban us all from airing our viewpoints via, what is currently, a very open discussion / information based forum.

tara73

BubbleBuddy wrote: »

Are you aware that people still discuss trials from hundreds of years ago (can you believe there's actually TV channels created on the very subject matter?) and Graham Dwyer's trial will no doubt be discussed decades from now, particularly considering the violent nature of the crime. Personally, I still talk about many trials, eg Malcolm MacArthur's trial (murderer from 1982) Maybe do some research on the topic of criminal trials the world over to see for yourself.

I'm aware. you are still not getting the point, please read my last post, first paragraph.

BubbleBuddy wrote: »

I would agree, there are families involved that have had to deal with much we couldn't begin to know. However, there are thousands upon thousands of families in the same position and offensive as it is to the human senses, it is part of life and as we're all aware, very much part of the media.

yes, and? very sad it is and doesn't mean I have to accept it. I will always stand up for people/things or trying to protect when I feel the need to.

BubbleBuddy wrote: »

What will you say when Ireland starts allowing cameras into courtrooms in the future? When it does, I must remember to just skip over your form of post, assuming you haven't attempted to ban us all from airing our viewpoints via, what is currently, a very open discussion / information based forum.

sorry, not understandable and don't know what it has to do with my subject. I'm not banning anybody from viewpoints. having viewpoints is something completely different than indulging in low level gossip regarding this case.

but anyway, I'm out of this discussion, I made my point, if people here think they want to indulge in this gossip and mods also think it is fine, that's it.
I say what I think, and people do what they wanna do, I'm very aware of it. I'm not that radical as you try to insinuate on me.

have a good evening.

Couldn't agree with you more, Tara.

It's mind-numbing idle talk for shifting redtop rags, & does absolutely nothing for the furtherance of the victim, her family or anybody whatever.

At least similarly idle behaviour, like obsessing over the soaps, requires an imagination. The victims here are real, and most boards.ie users a small island with them.

Everyone has the right to say what they like, even if all that drips from their insatiable, drooping mouths is pernicious and hurtful gossip. It's a free island, even if not a very considerate one at times.

Rippington

I suppose every day is hell in that repulsive bastards head and if it isn't , it should be .The only human contact he should have is a priest giving him the last rites .

tara73

one last thing to emphasize: everybody knows this guy has two young kids. I think they are very young, but in a few years time they get on the computer and they can and will read all what is written here as nothing will be deleted.

for the kids to read and cope what was written in the money driven tabloids is one thing, another is the ordinary people who happily indulge in the low life gossip on the internet and for all they know it could be the neighbours next door.

their life and that of the mother is already destroyed, I can't even imagine myself how to explain what happened to the kids and how they should cope with it.
so, for me, everybody who has some sort of empathy and decency wouldn't feel the need at all to indulge in this low level gossip, speculating about dwyers new 'girl friend' or whatever else the tabloids are coming up with in the future to make money out of it.

Smidge

Are you suggesting Tara that people shouldn't talk about things that actually happened?
I'm genuinely curious.
Whether it be someone who read something in a newspaper or online or a notice board or wherever?
Or should it just be the "nice things and weather" that we should keep to?

Rippington

Who would be surprised if his children changed their surname by deed poll and they were the furthest thing from Dwyer's mind when he was carrying out his evil .

Fr_Dougal

tara73 wrote: »

one last thing to emphasize: everybody knows this guy has two young kids. I think they are very young, but in a few years time they get on the computer and they can and will read all what is written here as nothing will be deleted.

for the kids to read and cope what was written in the money driven tabloids is one thing, another is the ordinary people who happily indulge in the low life gossip on the internet and for all they know it could be the neighbours next door.

their life and that of the mother is already destroyed, I can't even imagine myself how to explain what happened to the kids and how they should cope with it.
so, for me, everybody who has some sort of empathy and decency wouldn't feel the need at all to indulge in this low level gossip, speculating about dwyers new 'girl friend' or whatever else the tabloids are coming up with in the future to make money out of it.

Eh I think what is written on boards will be the last of the kids worries when they grow up.

tara73

tara73 wrote: »

yeah, and why do you feel the need to post this **** here? If you feel for the victims just don't pay attention to this ****e articles, because constant articles in the public like this is not helping both families, the o'Hara family and the Dwyer family to get over this mess, it's helping the media to still earn money on this case. disgrace.

mods, I think you should close this thread, it's just nonsense posting here.

I haven't read through this thread, because I find the whole circus surrounding the subject distasteful. I just saw this post on the front page.

You can follow my lead and not read the thread, or you can voice your opinion that discussion of the subject is redundant. I'd agree on both counts.

Telling other people that they should stop talking about something is a bit dictatorial though, people are as entitled to talk about this event as you are to object to it. If you don't like that, then follow my lead and ignore this thread from now on. You shouldn't try to censor discussion of events that are public knowledge.

Menas

The irony been that by continuing to post here to complain about this thread you ensure that it stays on the front page thus increasing the chances of more people chiming in with their opinions.

Dont like a thread ? Ignore it.
Think a thread should be shut down? Report it or PM a mod.

Omackeral

Menas wrote: »

The irony been that by continuing to post here to complain about this thread you ensure that it stays on the front page thus increasing the chances of more people chiming in with their opinions.

Dont like a thread ? Ignore it.
Think a thread should be shut down? Report it or PM a mod.

Bang on the money. It's pretty much the Streisand effect at work.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

realdanbreen

I see where Graham Dwyers russian girlfriend has come to her senses and dropped him. She is now in love with another inmate called Leon who is regarded as one of the most vicious inmates in Ireland.

Menas

realdanbreen wrote: »

I see where Graham Dwyers russian girlfriend has come to her senses and dropped him. She is now in love with another inmate called Leon who is regarded as one of the most vicious inmates in Ireland.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/graham-dwyers-girlfriend-moves-on-to-find-love-with-irelands-most-vicious-inmate-31414939.html

She says that Leon made her see sense....

Nodin

Menas wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/graham-dwyers-girlfriend-moves-on-to-find-love-with-irelands-most-vicious-inmate-31414939.html

She says that Leon made her see sense....

Dear o dear. She was better off with somebody unlikely to see the light of day again (presuming her mental state doesn't improve).

HeidiHeidi

The media really needs to stop reporting about this woman.

Is there nobody looking out for her interests?

Nodin

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

The media really needs to stop reporting about this woman.

Is there nobody looking out for her interests?

Evidently not. Doubtless this means less knocks on Sinead O'Connors door for a while at least.

kylith

Isn't the attraction to violent, dangerous people a paraphilia?

Contessa Raven

kylith wrote: »

Isn't the attraction to violent, dangerous people a paraphilia?

It sure is! Hybristophilia. Also known as Bonnie and Clyde Syndrome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybristophilia

Menas

That woman is now selling the 'love letters' he sent her on ebay. Jesus wept.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/graham-dwyers-love-letters-are-currently-for-sale-on-ebay-31472829.html

arayess

Menas wrote: »

That woman is now selling the 'love letters' he sent her on ebay. Jesus wept.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/graham-dwyers-love-letters-are-currently-for-sale-on-ebay-31472829.html

could the mods organise an AH collection to make a bid?

Valetta

Who says crime doesn't pay.

Roquentin

kylith wrote: »

Isn't the attraction to violent, dangerous people a paraphilia?

one of the jurors at the trial of richard ramirez (the infamous Night stalker) fell in love with him. after he was found guilty, he married another woman who fell in love with him when she saw him arrested.

Neyite

Menas wrote: »

That woman is now selling the 'love letters' he sent her on ebay. Jesus wept.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/graham-dwyers-love-letters-are-currently-for-sale-on-ebay-31472829.html

It's sick of her to use Elaine's image to make a profit. Why are the press even entertaining this ghoul?

padd b1975

Menas wrote: »

That woman is now selling the 'love letters' he sent her on ebay. Jesus wept.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/graham-dwyers-love-letters-are-currently-for-sale-on-ebay-31472829.html

Obviously a few sandwiches short of a picnic there.

Menas

Neyite wrote: »

It's sick of her to use Elaine's image to make a profit. Why are the press even entertaining this ghoul?

The woman is a total looper IMO. So I would not be expecting her to exercise any decorum at all.

custard gannet

Menas wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/graham-dwyers-girlfriend-moves-on-to-find-love-with-irelands-most-vicious-inmate-31414939.html

She says that Leon made her see sense....

I know one must get lonely for female company in prison but.....Just, no :pac:

Exactly what kind of visa is this non EU, presumably jobless eejit on in Ireland anyway. Presumably she isn't the dependent of a working partner if she is running around the prison system husband hunting, and her mental state would say to me that she wouldn't be top of any head hunters list in the job game.

Boom_Bap

MOD - This thread is not a thread about the relationships of Graham Dwyer post incarceration.

freshpopcorn

Saw this last night they did a documentary on this case in the US.
From the hats, the accents,etc it's very stereotypical Irish.

Omackeral

I read a fascinating book on this case called Almost The Perfect Murder. The work of the Gardai was absolutely sensational and, at times, seemingly miraculous. The procedural stuff is just so ridiculously fine combed and the elements of luck across a variety of locations are a definite factor. It is very graphic though and very very sad. I think it's a very good piece.

irishgeo

casefile an aussie crime podcast has a podcast on the case.

http://casefilepodcast.com/case-87-elaine-ohara/

The Crowman

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Saw this last night they did a documentary on this case in the US.
From the hats, the accents,etc it's very stereotypical Irish.

Reminds me of those episodes of Murder She Wrote set in Ireland.

freshpopcorn

Graham's house is for sale!

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/6-kerrymount-close-foxrock-dublin-18/4391771

Leg End Reject

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Graham's house is for sale!

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/6-kerrymount-close-foxrock-dublin-18/4391771

I expected it to be swankier for an architect.