Graham Dwyer court case *READ FIRST POST BEFORE POSTING*

Frigga_92

PressRun wrote: »

The chances of the jogger remembering that he met her in a place where the CCTV cameras just happened to not be working thus proving she was carrying out Dwyer's instructions is almost like something from a movie. An incredible detail.

People complain about the Guards a lot, but their dedication to unearthing what happened here was fantastic.

The jogger using the map my run app that time he met her was crazy too!

The Dark Side

Laois_Man wrote: »

The bit that bothers me is he's reported to have told prison officers that there are far more dangerous men than him out there in the BDSM website world

By some redtop rag no doubt.


Wouldn't go believing everything you read in those.

superelliptic

nokia69 wrote: »

but what difference would it make

Dwyer had plenty of friends who had no idea what he was up too, and TBF how could they know

we have very little idea what goes on in other peoples heads

Yeah you're right about that - in this case it probably wouldn't have made much difference at all, but the point I'm making is that if more people got to know those who live around them better then people from outside the area coming in would be more memorable. Like if Elaine and her neighbours* had know each other better, or paid attention to her comings and goings a guy like Dwyer showing up at her house may have been noticed and questions asked.

(*I'm absolutely not suggesting that her neighbours are in any way culpable for events though)

Laois_Man

RTE O'Clock news today said the average life sentence now is really 19.5 years. So different numbers are reported everywhere.

If he does get out in 19.5 years is it even going to be newsworthy then? In the year 2032, are many going to remember/care? Will it even make the headlines?

Just breaking in the news today, there's talk of the guy who shot Ronald Reagan being set free now. Just shows how human outrage eases over time.

tayto lover

Fair play to that Garda who went back searching the reservoir day after day in his own time. Hope his bosses reward him and make him a detective. he deserves something.

LadyAthame

The Dark Side wrote: »

Wouldn't go believing everything you read in those.

I would not demonize the community but there are dangerous manipulative people out there. You would be naive not to realize it.

LadyAthame

tayto lover wrote: »

Fair play to that Garda who went back searching the reservoir day after day in his own time. Hope his bosses reward him and make him a detective. he deserves something.

They really were amazing. And yes he does.

Conall Cernach

Laois_Man wrote: »

RTE O'Clock news today said the average life sentence now is really 19.5 years. So different numbers are reported everywhere.

If he does get out in 19.5 years is it even going to be newsworthy then? In the year 2032, are many going to remember/care? Will it even make the headlines?

Just breaking in the news today, there's talk of the guy who shot Ronald Reagan being set free now. Just shows how human outrage eases over time.

Ronald Reagan didn't die then.

nokia69

The Dark Side wrote: »

By some redtop rag no doubt.


Wouldn't go believing everything you read in those.

Dwyer, Murphy, Nash

do you really believe we only have 3 psychopathic killers in Ireland

lucky for us 2 of the 3 are locked up and the other lives in the UK

Roquentin

nokia69 wrote: »

Dwyer, Murphy, Nash

do you really believe we only have 3 psychopathic killers in Ireland

lucky for us 2 of the 3 are locked up and the other lives in the UK

im pretty sure there is some who havn't yet been caught

nokia69

tayto lover wrote: »

Fair play to that Garda who went back searching the reservoir day after day in his own time. Hope his bosses reward him and make him a detective. he deserves something.

I wonder was just looking for some more free bondage gear

and all he found were a couple of old phones

Roquentin

its a scary world out there

Magico Gonzalez

anto9 wrote: »

I used to live in Dublin also .

No, more or less round the corner from him Rathmines before he went to Foxrock.

Laois_Man

Conall Cernach wrote: »

Ronald Reagan didn't die then.

And Elaine O'Hara' wasn't the US President.

What's your point?

humanji

nokia69 wrote: »

I wonder was just looking for some more free bondage gear

and all he found were a couple of old phones

MOD: Just don't bother posting in this thread again.

LadyAthame

Laois_Man wrote: »

And Elaine O'Hara' wasn't the US President.

What's your point?

What Dwyer did was much more predatory and he is more dangerous to society. He psychologically abused her for years. His whole other life revolved around seeking individuals to abuse and kill for gratification. And he killed her. He was not crazy he was just horrible. The guy who tried to kill Regan was crazy and did it to impress jodie foster he was obsessed with her.

ohnonotgmail

Laois_Man wrote: »

And Elaine O'Hara' wasn't the US President.

What's your point?

the point is that it wasnt murder. also Hinckley was found not guilty and has been in psychiatric care ever since.

LoonyLovegood

Laois_Man wrote: »

The bit that bothers me is he's reported to have told prison officers that there are far more dangerous men than him out there in the BDSM website world

Quite possible!

There probably are people involved in that stuff who are more dangerous than him. But it's not what people do in the bedroom that's the issue, it's the consent. Elaine O'Hara reminds me of myself in some ways, we were both teenagers with severe mental health issues, but I'm lucky enough that I've overcome mine in a large way, whereas her illnesses took a large chunk of her life. All she wanted was someone to care about her, and she thought that's what she was getting.

There's no point in coming out and saying "Everyone who's involved in BDSM is dangerous and wrong", because that's not true. You just have to look at the case of R v Brown in the UK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Brown ), where men were convicted of BDSM acts, despite the fact that it was consensual, that none of the 'victims' (who again, were of sound mind and consented) ever had to seek medical treatment, and that the 'victims' never actually complained to the police.

I just hope that this gives that poor girl's family some sense of closure, and I hope that Dwyer's wife and sons are left alone to live their lives. It's not their fault he's such a monster.

tayto lover

LadyAthame wrote: »

What Dwyer did was much more predatory and he is more dangerous to society. He psychologically abused her for years. His whole other life revolved around seeking individuals to abuse and kill for gratification. And he killed her. He was not crazy he was just horrible. The guy who tried to kill Regan was crazy and did it to impress jodie foster he was obsessed with her.

Also Dwyer lived a very convincing double life as the great family man with all the family photos, the flying club and the great career. He seemed to have a great talent for hiding his macabre side, for computer use, planning to meet these lonely easily controlled people and for making victims out of them while continuing to work as normal and have a hobby of flying model aircraft.
I would be amazed if he hadn't murdered before.

The Assistinator

Really cant help but think of how badly this woman has been let down by people treating her mental health in this country it seems she was just put through the motions again and again very sad.
RIP elaine

Roquentin

alchemist33 wrote: »

Completely agree with the verdict and sentence and my heart goes out to the victim and her family.

What sticks out for me was the enthusiasm with which the media swarmed over this case, and probably because of the sexual element. In another case a man was convicted of his wifes manslaughter today, but this trial was mentioned barely if at all in the national media. There seems to be an element in Irish society which laps up certain murders, yet will ignore others which are supposedly less newsworthy, and it just annoys me.

Anyway, job well done by the legal system. RIP Elaine

its a number of things:

He was a married man
He was a professional (architect)
The sexual nature of the case
How he was caught
The rarity of the case ( if there was a case like this every week, the public would lose interest in them)

possibly more. but when you add up all those elements you get a case that is unique. this means the papers will sell because people wish to read about it

its similar to how when a new product comes on the market, people flock to buy it because its new and different. from a psychological point of view, that the people havent seen a case like this before means it captures the publics attention.

superelliptic

martyo wrote: »

Really cant help but think of how badly this woman has been let down by people treating her mental health in this country it seems she was just put through the motions again and again very sad.
RIP elaine

How do you mean? I don't think I ever read that any psychologist knew of how dangerous her involvement with Dwyer was and ignored it?

Roquentin

Henwin wrote: »

2 points about the case i would like to make.
ealaine apparantly told her friends she was seeing a married man who liked to hurt her and she was afraid of him, why didnt they report this to the guards when she went missing
and people like Dywer, how do they become so evil, were they born like this or did something happen to them when they were younger and they turned into a monster. he said he began having these feelings at 14, did something happen then to kick start these feelings. are pysicos born or made

ted bundy said that porn and power were the two main reasons he did what he did. (bundy killed about thirty people) i remember seeing a youtube video wherein a famous psychologist said that one has to be hardwired in some way to want to have to act so abnormally. having said that one still has to find their addiction.

killing to these guys is often like an addiction that they have to service. they get highs from it. they do once, get a high, and then the urge to do it again returns.

but like bundy said, it was the power dywer had over his victim that he found enjoyable and he was also watching porn with regards this type of fetish. eventually porn loses it potency and they have to bring the fantasy to real life.

dywer is the textbook psychopathic narcissist. he displayed complete lack of remorse and thought he would get off free. hes sitting in his cell now thinking he was justified in killing her.

whats an abnormal response to an abnormal situation? A normal response, which is what dywer exhibited. the way his brain was hardwired, the way the chemicals interacted all combined to give you this man.

the scary thing is, there are more men out there. maybe not in ireland but certainly in the world of nearly 8 billion people. scary yes, but true. look at poor karen buckley.

bundy once said the serial killers of this world are your husbands, your brothers and your children.

think of dywers wife, she never would have suspected that her husband and father of her children was such a creature. it shows that one never really knows what happens inside someones head.

scary world alright

Laois_Man

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the point is that it wasnt murder. also Hinckley was found not guilty and has been in psychiatric care ever since.

As a matter of fact, President Reagan's assistant who was also shot that day, died last year as a direct result of his gunshot injuries and his death was consequentially ruled a homicide. If Nancy Reagan had her way, Ronald Reagans death in the early 00's would have been also.

But the point is being missed. There was huge outrage at that Hinckley verdict. There probably will still be a little outrage if he is set free now, bit nothing in comparison. It'll be the same when people like Joe O'Reilly and Graham O'Dwyer eventually get out.

Rayne Wooney

Must have been living under a rock the past few years, hadn't heard the details of this one, like a really sick 50 shades of grey

Fair play to the Garda for piecing it together, crazy the luck involved though the guy using the running app only twice and one of the times led to him being able to show he was the last person besides her killer to see her alive, and the other man who found the stuff in the lake

The Assistinator

superelliptic wrote: »

How do you mean? I don't think I ever read that any psychologist knew of how dangerous her involvement with Dwyer was and ignored it?

Not really what i meant, its more that this woman made so many cries for help and still did not get the help she desperatly needed to escape from dwyers grasp.

ohnonotgmail

Laois_Man wrote: »

As a matter of fact, President Reagan's assistant who was also shot that day, died last year as a direct result of his gunshot injuries and his death was consequentially ruled a homicide. If Nancy Reagan had her way, Ronald Reagans death in the early 00's would have been also.

But the point is being missed. There was huge outrage at that Hinckley verdict. There probably will still be a little outrage if he is set free now, bit nothing in comparison. It'll be the same when people like Joe O'Reilly and Graham O'Dwyer eventually get out.

the death of Brady notwithstanding Hinckley is already receiving regular temporary release. weeks at a time several times a year.

emo72

mcarthur did more than 20 years for murdering 2 people and did over 20 years? or was it 25? he pleaded guilty.

dwyer pleaded not guilty, still denies any involvement, and has not shown 1 ounce of remorse. this i would imagine will go against him when he comes up to parole hearings. if he is still in denial, why should he get released?

that is why he will do 20 plus years. i would be shocked otherwise. im well aware i know nothing though.

ohnonotgmail

emo72 wrote: »

mcarthur did more than 20 years for murdering 2 people and did over 20 years? or was it 25? he pleaded guilty.
...

30 actually

Kidchameleon

Two things that the media seemed to forget. One was that Elaine knowingly had an affair with a married man. The second was that she consented to being stabbed. Now I'm sure she didn't consent to being killed but she was into her dirty sex just like Dwyer.

ThisRegard

I'm staggered at the amount of people on this thread claiming to have no idea of this case and have heard nothing about it.

Riverireland

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Two things that the media seemed to forget. One was that Elaine knowingly had an affair with a married man. The second was that she consented to being stabbed. Now I'm sure she didn't consent to being killed but she was into her dirty sex just like Dwyer.

Any mods around, this is quite sick

Dwarf.Shortage

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Two things that the media seemed to forget. One was that Elaine knowingly had an affair with a married man. The second was that she consented to being stabbed. Now I'm sure she didn't consent to being killed but she was into her dirty sex just like Dwyer.

There is so much wrong with that it's hard to know where to start. Both of the things you are pointing out were abundantly clear and neither of them make taking her life anything other than pre-meditated murder. The subtle victim blaming is just the cherry on the top.

tayto lover

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Two things that the media seemed to forget. One was that Elaine knowingly had an affair with a married man. The second was that she consented to being stabbed. Now I'm sure she didn't consent to being killed but she was into her dirty sex just like Dwyer.

The girl was mentally ill and Dwyer preyed on that.
Your comments are a bit unfair to her tbh.

lazygal

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Two things that the media seemed to forget. One was that Elaine knowingly had an affair with a married man. The second was that she consented to being stabbed. Now I'm sure she didn't consent to being killed but she was into her dirty sex just like Dwyer.

Do you have no compassion or empathy at all? She was a woman who suffered with mental illnesses, requiring hospital treatment, and the sort of vulnerable person the man who.murdered her sought out. There's a relative of mine I'd consider not able to consent to sexual activity of any kind as their mental abilities aren't able to process the effects of it, even though legally they're an adult and you wouldn't know they're suffering from mental health problems.

MadDog76

the_monkey wrote: »

life in this case means what 20 years ?

or is it life without parole ?

yermandan wrote: »

Does life mean 10 years here or natural life?

A life sentence in Ireland is an average of approximately 12 years but that's just an average ......... there are prisoners serving life sentences in Ireland who have been in custody for over 30 years.

Shanotheslayer

Laois_Man wrote: »

RTE O'Clock news today said the average life sentence now is really 19.5 years. So different numbers are reported everywhere.

If he does get out in 19.5 years is it even going to be newsworthy then? In the year 2032, are many going to remember/care? Will it even make the headlines?

Just breaking in the news today, there's talk of the guy who shot Ronald Reagan being set free now. Just shows how human outrage eases over time.

The Counter to that would be Jamie Bulger case, still a lot of outrage over that mate.

sadie06

I'm disappointed in media coverage again today. Why must images of Elaine's father and sister arriving and leaving the court be splashed all over the place?How could anyone stick a camera in their faces today?

Printing photos of her family alongside articles praising their victim impact statement for its empathy and dignity is hugely distasteful in my opinion. Why do we need to see their faces?

The thoughts of an appeal being entered turns my stomach, and calls to mind that other smug git O'Reilly. True psychopaths both of them. No remorse, and endless belief in their own infallibility.

bjork

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

The Counter to that would be Jamie Bulger case, still a lot of outrage over that mate.

It didn't stop them getting out

MadDog76

nullzero wrote: »

He should and most likely will spend his remaining years behind bars. The likelihood of him being released at any point is very slim considering his apparent psychological make up being that of a psychopath, which means rehabilitation to reintegrate into society is not something that can be realistically believed to be possible. I'm sure he will continuously profess his innocence due to his being a narcissistic psychopath but it would be unconscionable for anyone to make a decision to release such an individual back into society.

Such individuals have been released in the past .........

Shanotheslayer

bjork wrote: »

It didn't stop them getting out

That wasn't my point, my point was in regards to the human outrage

tayto lover

The story is on TV 3 now starting at 10 p.m.

stickybookmark

sadie06 wrote: »

The thoughts of an appeal being entered turns my stomach, and calls to mind that other smug git O'Reilly. True psychopaths both of them. No remorse, and endless belief in their own infallibility.

Except at least unlike O'Reilly- I assume- Dwyer won't have his girlfriend bringing his kids to visit him in prison! From what I've read Dwyer's wife has had nothing to do with him since he was arrested.

MadDog76

RGDATA! wrote: »

Actually, you're right to point out that a few people serving long life terms are skewing those figures, so I stand corrected.
It seems the average length of a life sentences for those who have been released is more like the 12 years you said he'll probably do.
I still think there's every reason to expect he'll do longer than average given the notoriety of the case, lack of remorse etc.

Notoriety and lack of remorse didn't stop the authorities releasing Larry Murphy earlier than the general public believed he should have been ............

Roquentin

MadDog76 wrote: »

Notoriety and lack of remorse didn't stop Larry Murphy being released earlier than the general public believed he should have been ............

correct me if im wrong but he was convicted of rape. suspected multiple killer but not proven in a court of law

Thatllteachya

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Two things that the media seemed to forget. One was that Elaine knowingly had an affair with a married man. The second was that she consented to being stabbed. Now I'm sure she didn't consent to being killed but she was into her dirty sex just like Dwyer.

Going by what is being said on TV3 this is true. So i'm not sure why people are up in arms about the poster here.

She seemed to be very emotionally and mentally disturbed.
There is definitely no excuse for killing someone.

Poor woman.

sadie06

stickybookmark wrote: »

Except at least unlike O'Reilly- I assume- Dwyer won't have his girlfriend bringing his kids to visit him in prison! From what I've read Dwyer's wife has had nothing to do with him since he was arrested.

His smug attitude knew no end. A particularly sickening pursuit of his was his thwarting of plans to have Rachel's headstone erected bearing her maiden name instead of her married name until he had exhausted the appeal process. I believe her family eventually overcame this technicality, but it took years.

Such callousness!

Dwarf.Shortage

Original post (not sure how to multi quote.): "Two things that the media seemed to forget. One was that Elaine knowingly had an affair with a married man. The second was that she consented to being stabbed. Now I'm sure she didn't consent to being killed but she was into her dirty sex just like Dwyer."

Thatllteachya wrote: »

Going by what is being said on TV3 this is true. So i'm not sure why people are up in arms about the poster here.

She seemed to be very emotionally and mentally disturbed.
There is definitely no excuse for killing someone.

Poor woman.

What is the point of the post, why would it be important that the media forget these things? does one of them or any combination of the two in any way justify what happened?

On top of that is the fact that in no way did the media omit these facts, they were abundantly clear in the coverage. To me that post implies that the media should have reported these things even more explicitly which firstly would have been illegal as it would have been seen as prejudicing the trial and secondly the post is textbook victim blaming. It was not Elaine O'Hara's responsibility to make sure she wasn't murdered irrespective of her sexual tendencies.

It's like people who come out after an assault or sex crime and say things like "they shouldn't have been walking home on their own." or "the way she was dressed was asking for it." It's often the manifestation of prejudices people don't even realise they have.

Aineoil

Elaine was a troubled girl and suffered from poor self esteem. She was preyed upon and I just think what do we need

to do in society to stop the lack of self esteem Elaine suffered from?

I have no answers myself.....

BTW I feel so saddened for Elaine's family and O Dwyer's family - innocent victims.

Corvo

I'd love to read a psychology report on him. He is one sick individual