Graham Dwyer court case *READ FIRST POST BEFORE POSTING*

Dwarf.Shortage

Corvo wrote: »

I'd love to read a psychology report on him. He is one sick individual

Would want to have the breakfast first.

Stheno

The effect on the journalists who are taking part in the documentary on tv3 is still evident

sligojoek

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/average-life-sentence-up-to-two-decades-from-7-years-in-1980s-1.2181655

From the Irish Times.

Thatllteachya

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Original post (not sure how to multi quote.): "Two things that the media seemed to forget. One was that Elaine knowingly had an affair with a married man. The second was that she consented to being stabbed. Now I'm sure she didn't consent to being killed but she was into her dirty sex just like Dwyer."



What is the point of the post, why would it be important that the media forget these things? does one of them or any combination of the two in any way justify what happened?

On top of that is the fact that in no way did the media omit these facts, they were abundantly clear in the coverage. To me that post implies that the media should have reported these things even more explicitly which firstly would have been illegal as it would have been seen as prejudicing the trial and secondly the post is textbook victim blaming. It was not Elaine O'Hara's responsibility to make sure she wasn't murdered irrespective of her sexual tendencies.

It's like people who come out after an assault or sex crime and say things like "they shouldn't have been walking home on their own." or "the way she was dressed was asking for it." It's often the manifestation of prejudices people don't even realise they have.

In no way did I or the other poster say any of that. This woman did not deserve to be killed and the killer is getting the justice he deserves.

Dwarf.Shortage

Stheno wrote: »

The effect on the journalists who are taking part in the documentary on tv3 is still evident

Yeah even when the public galleries are cleared the journalists stay in there so they seen the videos and the whole lot, wouldn't wish that on anyone. I'm a very curious person but there is certain **** you just know you don't want to see.

eviltwin

Thatllteachya wrote: »

In no way did I or the other poster say any of that. This woman did not deserve to be killed and the killer is getting the justice he deserves.

So why mention it? It's not relevant that he was married or that she had extreme tastes.

Thatllteachya

eviltwin wrote: »

So why mention it? It's not relevant that he was married or that she had extreme tastes.

Of course its relevant. Its how the victim met the killer ffs.

eviltwin

Thatllteachya wrote: »

Of course its relevant. Its how the victim met the killer ffs.

They met online, his marital status doesn't come into it.

Mallagio

I think this highlights what's actually going on in the dark and murky world of certain corners of the internet.

He had that girl scared out of her wits whilst controlling her completely Jesus it's beyond words this case.

PressRun

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Two things that the media seemed to forget. One was that Elaine knowingly had an affair with a married man. The second was that she consented to being stabbed. Now I'm sure she didn't consent to being killed but she was into her dirty sex just like Dwyer.

wtf??

Aineoil

Corvo wrote: »

I'd love to read a psychology report on him. He is one sick individual

Thing is he sees himself as being normal.

But he has shown these traits

callousness towards others
sense of superiority
control and possessiveness
disregard for social norms



He thought he would be free, eating steak and drinking wine.

I actually feel physically sick watching this documentary.

Thatllteachya

eviltwin wrote: »

They met online, his marital status doesn't come into it.

You know full well I was on about the "extreme tastes" part of the post. Don't let that get in the way of seeing what you want to see though.

I can't imagine being a juror in cases like this, how can you go on without thinking about the horror this man would've afflicted. It would certainly make you more jaded.

tayto lover

A lot of strange individuals out there.
Some of those websites has well over a million views.
There could well be more Dwyers out there.
Scary.

MadDog76

Roquentin wrote: »

correct me if im wrong but he was convicted of rape. suspected multiple killer but not proven in a court of law

You're not wrong but he was/is still notorious with zero remorse and, despite public outcry, was released ......... I doubt public opinion will count when it comes time for Mr Dwyer to walk free.

123balltv

I feel for the jurors disturbing, horror story.

Stheno

Basil3 wrote: »

I actually feel physically sick watching this documentary.

Same here it's dreadfully sad

irishfeen

I think Graham Dwyer may never leave his jail cell - from what i heard on the radio today any future minister for justice can prevent him ever being released... anyone confirm this?

Kidchameleon

eviltwin wrote: »

So why mention it? It's not relevant that he was married or that she had extreme tastes.

Its relevant that he was married because there are lots of people saying how much he has hurt his wife and kids without considering that she hurt them too.

Its relevant that she had extreme tastes because people are referring to Dwyer as some sick sex pervert without considering that she had the same sexual preferences as him. There's nothing wrong with being into bondage. He met her on an S&M website, he didn't know her before that! Her ex had to finish with her because he couldn't keep up with her!

By the way I don't think she deserved to die.

Thatllteachya

irishfeen wrote: »

I think Graham Dwyer may never leave his jail cell - from what i heard on the radio today any future minister for justice can prevent him ever being released... anyone confirm this?

One can only hope. Can't imagine him surviving too long in the outside world anyway.

MadDog76

sligojoek wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/average-life-sentence-up-to-two-decades-from-7-years-in-1980s-1.2181655

From the Irish Times.

It seems to fluctuate wildly with no consistency at all over the years .......... who knows what next year's average will be!

Aineoil

123balltv wrote: »

I feel for the jurors disturbing, horror story.

Actually I felt the same way as you. I'm glad I was not a juror on the case. I

wonder if you can not do juror duty if you can't stomach the case?

Dwarf.Shortage

Thatllteachya wrote: »

Of course its relevant. Its how the victim met the killer ffs.

He wasn't convicted of meeting her, he was convicted of murdering her. It doesn't matter that he was married and it doesn't matter that she allowed people to afflict non fatal stab wounds on her in the past. The belief that these two facts should have been reported more heavily in the media and that they imply a degree of culpability on O'Hara's behalf is victim blaming.

Jesus Wept

sadie06 wrote: »

I'm disappointed in media coverage again today. Why must images of Elaine's father and sister arriving and leaving the court be splashed all over the place?How could anyone stick a camera in their faces today?

Printing photos of her family alongside articles praising their victim impact statement for its empathy and dignity is hugely distasteful in my opinion. Why do we need to see their faces?

The thoughts of an appeal being entered turns my stomach, and calls to mind that other smug git O'Reilly. True psychopaths both of them. No remorse, and endless belief in their own infallibility.

Same with Dwyer's wife and house on tv3.

FouxDaFaFa

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Two things that the media seemed to forget. One was that Elaine knowingly had an affair with a married man. The second was that she consented to being stabbed. Now I'm sure she didn't consent to being killed but she was into her dirty sex just like Dwyer.

You know why you're getting flak for this? Because you seem to be piling blame onto a dead woman who can't defend herself.

As for your last sentence, the bolded bit, what is the point of that sentence? I'm genuinely asking. Are you saying "it takes two to tango" or something?

michael999999

MadDog76 wrote: »

You're not wrong but he was/is still notorious with zero remorse and, despite public outcry, was released ......... I doubt public opinion will count when it comes time for Mr Dwyer to walk free.

The cratloe rapists didn't spend long in jail either, and that was pretty depraved!

eviltwin

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Its relevant that he was married because there are lots of people saying how much he has hurt his wife and kids without considering that she hurt them too.

Its relevant that she had extreme tastes because people are referring to Dwyer as some sick sex pervert without considering that she had the same sexual preferences as him. There's nothing wrong with being into bondage. He met her on an S&M website, he didn't know her before that! Her ex had to finish with her because he couldn't keep up with her!

By the way I don't think she deserved to die.

The hurt caused to the Dwyer family is not over his affair, it's over the fact he killed a person! The extreme tastes were shared by many, as long as they were consensual participants it's no one's business. Dwyer made it everyone's business by bringing in innocent parties and targeting a vulnerable woman he could easily manipulate.

Kidchameleon

eviltwin wrote: »

They met online, his marital status doesn't come into it.

She knew he was married and had kids, he told her about the birth of one of them in a message anyway

Jesus Wept

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Its relevant that he was married because there are lots of people saying how much he has hurt his wife and kids without considering that she hurt them too.

Its relevant that she had extreme tastes because people are referring to Dwyer as some sick sex pervert without considering that she had the same sexual preferences as him. There's nothing wrong with being into bondage. He met her on an S&M website, he didn't know her before that! Her ex had to finish with her because he couldn't keep up with her!

mmmhmm
mmmmmhmm

by the way I don't think she deserved to die.

Very noble of you.

Mallagio

TV3 ..... Why they felt the need to put up a photo of Dwyers wife is nothing short of a disgrace.

Thatllteachya

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

He wasn't convicted of meeting her, he was convicted of murdering her. It doesn't matter that he was married and it doesn't matter that she allowed people to afflict non fatal stab wounds on her past. The belief that these two facts should have been reported more heavily in the media and that they imply a degree of culpability on O'Hara's behalf is victim blaming.

There is no defending of his actions or victim blaming. Pity you're too thick to see that.

DavidRamsay99

I hope there is a happy ever after for Ms Darci Day the star witness in the case.

She comes across as a very nice young woman who has had it hard in life.

This is one of her videos.

Kidchameleon

The Rodgers wrote: »

Very noble of you.

Somebody accused me of saying otherwise so I thought I would clarify.

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

Are you saying "it takes two to tango" or something?

I'm not saying that at all. The media are saying Dwyer is a sex predator for being into S&M, well by that reasoning, everyone who is into S&M is a sex predator.

Stheno

Mallagio wrote: »

TV3 ..... Why they felt the need to put up a photo of Dwyers wife is nothing short of a disgrace.

It's a very old photo from when they were on tv renovating a cottage years ago note that no pictures were published of her at the trial


Hard to feel anything but deep sympathy for the families after watching that

And hard to understand having the empathy Elaines father had in acknowledging that other families than his had suffered in his victim impact statement

ectoraige

I fail to see why we needed any media coverage of this case while it was ongoing to be honest. There was no service to justice that could not have been carried out once the verdict was returned, there's always plenty of inches of space in the Sunday papers and supplements to delve into all the details afterwards. The drip-feeding of daily progress contributed nothing positive to our society, it only sold more papers, and must have tormented the friends and families of all concerned.

Justice can still be shown to have been done, after the fact.

Aineoil

The unfortunate thing in cases like this, just like the case in Scotland, the poor victim never gets to tell their side of the story.

Again my sympathies and prayers are with all the families.

Dwarf.Shortage

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Its relevant that he was married because there are lots of people saying how much he has hurt his wife and kids without considering that she hurt them too.

Its relevant that she had extreme tastes because people are referring to Dwyer as some sick sex pervert without considering that she had the same sexual preferences as him. There's nothing wrong with being into bondage. He met her on an S&M website, he didn't know her before that! Her ex had to finish with her because he couldn't keep up with her!

By the way I don't think she deserved to die.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

She knew he was married and had kids, he told her about the birth of one of them in a message anyway

She hurt his wife and kids by being murdered? She is to some (even very small) degree culpable for having been murdered because she had some unusual sexual preference? The fact that you feel the need to state you don't think a vulnerable woman who had her life taken against her will deserved to die is a touch strange as well.

I know I might be coming across as an a**ehole, I don't believe you sympathise with Dwyer or anything like that, the problems with what you're saying are very subtle but they are also very important.

Turtwig

Kidchameleon wrote: »

The media are saying Dwyer is a sex predator for being into S&M, well by that reasoning, everyone who is into S&M is a sex predator.

Some in the media may have said that. Most though are saying he was a sex predator who took advantage of the S&M environment to manipulate people.

That's wholly different to what you're implying or, at least, trying to claim.

Dwarf.Shortage

Thatllteachya wrote: »

There is no defending of his actions or victim blaming. Pity you're too thick to see that.

Why should the media have focused more on her taste for S&M or the fact she knew he was married as the original post said?

Also the irony of being called thick by an individual who can neither spell their username correctly nor recognise textbook victim blaming isn't lost on me.

PressRun

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Its relevant that he was married because there are lots of people saying how much he has hurt his wife and kids without considering that she hurt them too.

Its relevant that she had extreme tastes because people are referring to Dwyer as some sick sex pervert without considering that she had the same sexual preferences as him. There's nothing wrong with being into bondage. He met her on an S&M website, he didn't know her before that! Her ex had to finish with her because he couldn't keep up with her!

By the way I don't think she deserved to die.

Nobody is saying that there's anything wrong with being into bondage. There is something wrong with murdering somebody and then actively trying to cover up that murder, however, and that speaks to something far more sinister than an interest in bondage.

Him being married is absolutely irrelevant. He was the one who was married and had responsibilities to his family. Elaine O'Hara was not in any way obliged to honour any sort of responsibility to the woman Dwyer chose to marry and the children he chose to have with that woman.

Elaine O'Hara was a mentally fragile person who was manipulated by a man who knew exactly what he was doing and believed he would get away with it. In fact, he still seems to believe he will eventually be exonerated. Insinuating that some blame somehow lies with her because she was interested in BDSM and was involved with a married man is beyond reprehensible. Last I checked, having an affair and being interested in bondage wasn't a crime, murdering people is.

Lau2976

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Somebody accused me of saying otherwise so I thought I would clarify.



I'm not saying that at all. The media are saying Dwyer is a sex predator for being into S&M, well by that reasoning, everyone who is into S&M is a sex predator.

Is he not a sex predator because he murdered someone?

Mallagio

IMO, it seems like Dwyer was the type of person that probably believed he was doing her a favor and also got his kicks from murdering the girl.

He is to blame for the fallout of this and heaping misery on both families.

tayto lover

I'm not sorry I watched the programme tonight as the entire case was very unusual and as such interesting.
My Monday nights won't be the same for awhile though. I was shocked by the programme and the manipulating nature of Grahame Dwyer. Hope there's nobody else out there like this animal but I doubt it.

Kidchameleon

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

She hurt his wife and kids by being murdered?

Where did I say that? I said that Dwyer and herself hurt the wife and kids by having an affair. Again, I'm not saying the affair was an excuse for her to die.

Lau2976 wrote: »

Is he not a sex predator because he murdered someone?

No he is a murderer who murdered a woman who had consensual sex with him.

Thatllteachya

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Why should the media have focused more on her taste for S&M or the fact she knew he was married as the original post said?

Also the irony of being called thick by an individual who can neither spell their username correctly nor recognise textbook victim blaming isn't lost on me.

A post littered with grammatical errors accusing someone of spelling mistakes. Irony indeed.

eviltwin

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Where did I say that? I said that Dwyer and herself hurt the wife and kids by having an affair. Again, I'm not saying the affair was an excuse for her to die.



No he is a murderer who murdered a woman who had consensual sex with him.

The affair pales into insignificance compared to the murder charge I think

JPCN1

MadDog76 wrote: »

A life sentence in Ireland is an average of approximately 12 years but that's just an average ......... there are prisoners serving life sentences in Ireland who have been in custody for over 30 years.

Average life sentence I think has gone up to 18 years.


Thankfully.

DavidRamsay99

Mallagio wrote: »

IMO, it seems like Dwyer was the type of person that probably believed he was doing her a favor and also got his kicks from murdering the girl.

He is to blame for the fallout of this and heaping misery on both families.

He probably imagines now he'll get lots of female fan mail and the Gardaí will be consulting him for help in profiling killers like himself or some such.
Journalists will be wanting to interview him and he'll be the star prisoner.
The guy clearly has delusions of grandeur and he'll want to make the most of his notoriety.

AndonHandon

The prosecution case was put together superbly; the narrative with the mobile phones was brilliantly executed. Don't know why he didn't just burn the evidence.

Dwarf.Shortage

Thatllteachya wrote: »

A post littered with grammatical errors accusing someone of spelling mistakes. Irony indeed.

I would rather my posts contained informal English than deplorable implications about a woman who did nothing to deserve her faith and cannot defend herself from the fabricated charges you hold against her.

You are yet to explain why, in the context of Graeme Dwyer being convicted of her murder, the media should have shone a brighter light on the victims transgressions. Particularly as she clearly wasn't of sound mind and couldn't be held fully responsible for those actions even if they were worthy of blame, which they are not.