Graham Dwyer court case *READ FIRST POST BEFORE POSTING*

JPCN1

ectoraige wrote: »

I fail to see why we needed any media coverage of this case while it was ongoing to be honest. There was no service to justice that could not have been carried out once the verdict was returned, there's always plenty of inches of space in the Sunday papers and supplements to delve into all the details afterwards. The drip-feeding of daily progress contributed nothing positive to our society, it only sold more papers, and must have tormented the friends and families of all concerned.

Justice can still be shown to have been done, after the fact.

Justice has to be in the open.

Kidchameleon

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Particularly as she clearly wasn't of sound mind and couldn't be held fully responsible for those actions even if they were worthy of blame, which they are not.

She had two jobs, one of which involved minding children. She had a car, her own place, she was of sound enough mind to know that an affair was wrong.

Stheno

Kidchameleon wrote: »

She had two jobs, one of which involved minding children. She had a car, her own place, she was of sound enough mind to know that an affair was wrong.

Your posts are going too far I find them a little sickening

eviltwin

Kidchameleon wrote: »

She had two jobs, one of which involved minding children. She had a car, her own place, she was of sound enough mind to know that an affair was wrong.

A nut case murders a woman, indulges in sick rape and murder fantasies, plots the murder of a woman who didn't even know him and you fixate on the affair?

Tayla

Aineoil wrote: »

Actually I felt the same way as you. I'm glad I was not a juror on the case. I

wonder if you can not do juror duty if you can't stomach the case?

Yes, potential jurors in this case were told to indicate if they were particularly squeamish and one of the potential jurors was excused because she said she was, another said that their brother had been murdered and was excused for that reason.

FouxDaFaFa

Kidchameleon wrote: »

She had two jobs, one of which involved minding children. She had a car, her own place, she was of sound enough mind to know that an affair was wrong.

What is your point? This wasn't an adultery trial.

Dwarf.Shortage

Kidchameleon wrote: »

She had two jobs, one of which involved minding children. She had a car, her own place, she was of sound enough mind to know that an affair was wrong.

It's not as if the woman lost a tenner and we can say "oh well Karma is a bitch", we're talking about a mentally ill woman who was viciously murdered and you're waving an affair around as if it in someway offsets that.

No action of Elaine O'Hara at any point caused her to be even marginally to blame for what happened her, I cannot put it any clearer than that.

Mallagio

Kidchameleon wrote: »

She had two jobs, one of which involved minding children. She had a car, her own place, she was of sound enough mind to know that an affair was wrong.

What the f**k are you on about?

Kidchameleon

Stheno wrote: »

Your posts are going too far I find them a little sickening

I'm just stating facts that the media have failed to mention.

Don't worry I gonna leave this discussion I'm having my words twisted left right and center. Bye.

eoins23456

He got life in prison. Does that mean he'll actually spend the rest of his life in prison or is there some average amount of time that is usually spent in prison before someone would be let out?

Mallagio

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I'm just stating facts that the media have failed to mention.

Don't worry I gonna leave this discussion I'm having my words twisted left right and center. Bye.

There's always that small percentage who enjoys blaming the victim isn't there?

Dwarf.Shortage

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I'm just stating facts that the media have failed to mention.

Don't worry I gonna leave this discussion I'm having my words twisted left right and center. Bye.

The media didn't fail to mention it, it was abundantly clear and your words are being twisted into a noose of your own making because what you're saying is absolutely f**king deplorable.

Mallagio

eoins23456 wrote: »

He got life in prison. Does that mean he'll actually spend the rest of his life in prison or is there some average amount of time that is usually spent in prison before someone would be let out?

20 years approx but hopefully much longer.

Kidchameleon

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

It's not as if the woman lost a tenner and we can say "oh well Karma is a bitch", we're talking about a mentally ill woman who was viciously murdered and you're waving an affair around as if it in someway offsets that.

No action of Elaine O'Hara at any point caused her to be even marginally to blame for what happened her, I cannot put it any clearer than that.

Ive said several times now on this thread that she is not to blame for what happened, I cannot put it any clearer than that. I'm out of this thread bye.

Omackeral

tayto lover wrote: »

A lot of strange individuals out there.
Some of those websites has well over a million views.
There could well be more Dwyers out there.
Scary.

A lot of strange individuals in every walk of life in fairness. Thomas Hamilton who shot up Dunblane Primary School was a scout leader. Derek Bird who went on shooting rampage through Cumbria killing 12 was a grandad and taxi driver.

I think this case has demonised/stigmatised the BDSM scene a good deal for the layperson. We all have things we like yet wouldn't particularly want everyone to know. Some people have open relationships and the likes. I wouldn't know much about BDSM but I'd imagine for the most part it's role playing and is within guidelines and boundaries etc, this seems to have gone a lot further than it ever should have owing to one party being far more controlling than the norm and the other being a vunerable type. I wouldn't judge people for being into the lifestyle though, so long as it's all consensual, safe and above board.

Dwarf.Shortage

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Ive said several times now on this thread that she is not to blame for what happened, I cannot put it any clearer than that. I'm out of this thread bye.

Then what is the relevance of the affair you keep bringing up?

Omackeral

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Then what is the relevance of the affair you keep bringing up?

I think the point the kidchameleon is making is that Ms O'Hara was deemed well enough to work with minding children so was of sound enough mind to know what was going on in other respects. That seems to be the point he's getting at.

Dwarf.Shortage

Omackeral wrote: »

I think the point the kidchameleon is making is that Ms O'Hara was deemed well enough to work with minding children so was of sound enough mind to know what was going on in other respects. That seems to be the point he's getting at.

I know but I want to know why he considers that relevant to her murder.

Greenmachine

I would consider myself to have a strong stomach. The case gave me the chills, and made me sick to the stomach. I am sure even in years to come, I won't shake the feeling this case gives me. The fella was cold and calculating, and completely lacking in any remorse. I would not wish what Elaine had gone through on my worst enemy. It sadden that life in this country could mean service a term of less than 10 years, even in a horrifying case.
This is not even a case of a violent drunk who stabbed a partner. This is someone who takes great pleasure in exerting control over other with a twisted malevolence. A person like that can't be helped because, they won't accept treatment.

suicide_circus

TV3 - where class, taste and dignity go to die.

Tayla

Greenmachine wrote: »

This is not even a case of a violent drunk who stabbed a partner. This is someone who takes great pleasure in exerting control over other with a twisted malevolence. A person like that can't be helped because, they won't accept treatment.

I don't think treatment would even work for someone like that.

Laois_Man

Roquentin wrote: »

think of dywers wife, she never would have suspected that her husband and father of her children was such a creature. it shows that one never really knows what happens inside someones head.

Actually, I think it's revealing that, as I understand it, she turned on him pretty much straight away when he was first arrested - it points to the fact that she could easily believe that he was capable of doing what he did and I would strongly suspect that she had seen flashes of his sexual ideas a few times.

Dwarf.Shortage

suicide_circus wrote: »

TV3 - where class, taste and dignity go to die.

Seen a proper paperback book about it being advertised during the week, the printing press' must have been merely waiting for the gavel to sound so we could get on to the real event of someone making a few bob out of the misery.

Stheno

Laois_Man wrote: »

Actually, I think it's revealing that, as I understand it, she turned on him pretty much straight away when he was first arrested - it points to the fact that she could easily believe that he was capable of doing what he did and I would strongly suspect that she had seen flashes of his sexual ideas a few times.

And this is why that woman and her young family have had to relocate

The Zec

In other news, OJ Simpson is found not guilty in a Los Angeles court.

NachoBusiness

What strikes me as odd, is how a guy who apparently meticulously planned this murder, would just dump the phones, sims, knives, keys with identity barcodes etc etc, all in the one spot and make no real effort to destroy any of it.

It just doesn't add up. He could easily have cut up the sim cards and dumped the rest of the stuff in bins here and there. To me what he did is far more indicative of someone dumping belongings in an unplanned panic. I really couldn't see any murderer planning out a murder but yet dumping all evidence linking them to that person in the one spot otherwise.

But, then if this was some twisted sick 'game' that just went to far, then why not be honest and say as much? Oh, the whole case is bizarre. It just doesn't seem plausible that all happened the way it has been laid out as having done. Or maybe I'm just reading to much into the haphazard way be dumped the stuff.

Feckin scary to think he so very nearly got away with it all.

Stheno

NachoBusiness wrote: »

What strikes me as odd, is how a guy who apparently meticulously planned this murder, would just dump the phones, sims, knives, keys with identity barcodes etc etc, all in the one spot and make no real effort to destroy any of it.

It just doesn't add up. He could easily have cut up the sim cards and dumped the rest of the stuff in bins here and there. To me what he did is far more indicative of someone dumping belongings in an unplanned panic. I really couldn't see any murderer planning out a murder but yet dumping all evidence linking them to that person in the one spot otherwise.

But, then if this was some twisted sick 'game' that just went to far, then why not be honest and say as much? Oh, the whole case is bizarre. It just doesn't seem plausible that all happened the way it has been laid out as having done. Or maybe I'm just reading to much into the haphazard way be dumped the stuff.

Feckin scary to think he so very nearly got away with it all.

The place he dumped the stuff was usual twenty plus feet deep it shrank due to weather

Smidge

This is something I have thought about since this happened and I think it may be worthy of saying.

I would firstly like to say that this case was heartbreaking for all involved. Elaine, her family and the wife and children and family of Dwyer. All innocent parties in this whole thing. A very sad story from start to finish.

Secondly, I would like to say that I believe in adult sexual relations in whatever shape way or form they come in. You want to dress as a baby, grand. You want a bit of light whipping while having an orange stuck in your gob by a 6'2 woman who looks like Arnie? Good for you, enjoy it.
But here's the kicker.....within reason.

And before I get castigated by the masses for repressing sexuality this is what I mean.
These websites are all well and good and are for seemingly consenting adults but it is, after all, the internet.

I think there should be some "red flagging" methods in place on these sites to keep an eye on individuals that want wayyyyyyy more than vanilla.
The ones who again and again mention(either in comments or pm's)key words and phrases like "Stabbing, murder, mutilation" etc etc.

The very vast majority of people would NOT find stabbing someone during intercourse a turn on, so no harm imo keeping a discreet eye(by the people who host/mod these sites)on people who are really actively seeking this sort of thing.

Tayla

Smidge wrote: »

I think there should be some "red flagging" methods in place on these sites to keep an eye on individuals that want wayyyyyyy more than vanilla.
The ones who again and again mention(either in comments or pm's)key words and phrases like "Stabbing, murder, mutilation" etc etc.

The very vast majority of people would NOT find stabbing someone during intercourse a turn on, so no harm imo keeping a discreet eye(by the people who host/mod these sites)on people who are really actively seeking this sort of thing.

I think GD was only talking about murder in text and by email so those sites having red flagging methods wouldn't make a difference.

Dwarf.Shortage

This may be an unpopular opinion but I feel his conviction is shaky enough in that if his counsel can get one or two pieces of evidence ruled out of the appeal he could walk. It's all circumstantial and it all ties in together in a manner that losing one piece can make two or three of the other pieces far less damning. In the awful event he does win on appeal you'd have to assume he'd leave the country, he'd never be left be here and rightfully so.

Smidge

Tayla wrote: »

I think GD was only talking about murder in text and by email so those sites having red flagging methods wouldn't make a difference.

May have been Tayla but afaik the site he was on was on the upper end of the scale of sexual degeneracy(not sure how to word that any better tbh). Also afaik, was there not some communications between them where they met(this site) that was exactly the type of thing I was talking about? I'm sure there was if my memory serves me right(also dubious communications through it with Darcy)?

Tayla

What pieces of evidence could be ruled out though?

I was shocked to hear how much his legal team got paid, I thought when people got free legal aid they got the cheap option!!

Dwarf.Shortage

Tayla wrote: »

What pieces of evidence could be ruled out though?

I was shocked to hear how much his legal team got paid, I thought when people got free legal aid they got the cheap option!!

www.thejournal.ie/graham-dwyer-appeal-2053910-Apr2015/

That article explains the technicalities of it all. I have heard three main arguments his legal team could use in the appeal:

1. Prejudicial media coverage.
2. The judge was too strong in his criticisms and could be seen as biased or leading the jury.
3. Some of the videos on his hard drive were not directly relevant to the case and as such served no function other than to further prejudice the jury against him.

It's the sort of case where finding a jury that can remain objective is unbelievably difficult. It would nearly suit the special criminal court better as it would be a juryless trial but he has a right to a jury of his peers and that must be respected.

NachoBusiness

Stheno wrote: »

The place he dumped the stuff was usual twenty plus feet deep it shrank due to weather

Doesn't matter. Too much has been said about that. How a mystical power from above must have been watching down etc etc. Give me a break (not you, just the reporting of this aspect of the story in general). If there was a higher power then that cnut would have slipped and broke his neck on his way to meet her.

Look, he's a bright guy but there is nothing to suggest he would have knowledge about how deep that water would likely remain over time. The items he was dumping were metal and hard plastic items, always a chance something like that will surface for one reaaon or another.

My point is that if someone was going to murder someone as we are led to believe he was, then I would think more thought would be given to disposing of the items which link him to that person. Leaving them all in the one spot, intact, makes no sense.Like I say, it just seems an act of panicked person. Anyway, that's just how I see it, not looking to convince anyone.

As an aside, if the guy does appeal, can he change his plea. Or must that remain consistent?

Dwarf.Shortage

NachoBusiness wrote: »

As an aside, if the guy does appeal, can he change his plea. Or must that remain consistent?

Well he can't appeal and change his plea to guilty?

NachoBusiness

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Well he can't appeal and change his plea to guilty?

Was thinking more along the lines of Not Guilty of murder plea still, but he's now willing to admit to having some involvement in her death.

What did the defence concede by the way? His dna was found in her flat, right? So did he admit knowing her at least? The reporting of the defence's case was very scarce. Or was it just that they did't really have much in the way of one?

Dwarf.Shortage

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Was thinking more along the lines of Not Guilty of murder plea still, but he's now willing to admit to having some involvement in her death.

What did the defence concede by the way? His dna was found in her flat, right? So did he admit knowing her at least? The reporting of the defence's case was very scarce. Or was it just that they did't really have much in the way of one?

I think what they had was just mundane and weak compared to what the prosecution had and hence didn't get much coverage. I'm not endorsing what I'm about to say but if he'd swallowed his pride and arrogance and presented a version of events where the bloodletting went too far and he killed her by accident then panicked, or even an assisted suicide given her history he might have got south of ten years for manslaughter. All the evidence from phones and emails would corroborate it and it would be his word against no ones as to what actually happened in the woods. There would be a reasonable doubt that the prosecutions version of events rather than his was true.

However there isn't a doubt in the world that the version he gave was false given he basically claimed he'd no idea whatsoever about any of it. Ultimately his own arrogance was his downfall and on that basis I'm grateful he is an arrogant man.

sunbeam

I thought at one point when the jury was sent out so the defence team could discuss legal issues with the judge that the possibility of an accident was raised, but for some reason they never pursued the idea. I think this was near the end of the trial but I could be wrong.

Edit: link from newstalk: http://www.newstalk.com/Defending-Graham-Dwyer

LadyAthame

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

This may be an unpopular opinion but I feel his conviction is shaky enough in that if his counsel can get one or two pieces of evidence ruled out of the appeal he could walk. It's all circumstantial

It's actually not.

stinkle

The witnesses who testified for the defence took up about 30 minutes of court time over a period of more than two months. The entire defence summary rested on the jury acquitting him if they had any reason to believe that Elaine died by suicide as opposed to by someone else's hand. They were unable to argue against all the overwhelming evidence that the prosecution provided.

Considering her car was found miles from where her body was discovered and she was an asthmatic smoker, it was always unlikely that she made her own way up the mountains to the scene of the crime and the reservoir where the items were found. That's something like a 50k trek. The text messages from his phone telling her to leave her car and head to the beach, corroborate the sightings of her at the cemetery and heading down to the beach. The phone signal data put the Master phone around Shanganagh and then near the mountains. The same phone that pinged in all sorts of Dwyer-related locations like his job, family home, and similar locations. And messages from that phone mentioning stuff like the birth of his child and results from flying competitions makes it all far more than circumstantial.

He was arrogant enough to think he'd gotten away with it. A lot of that was due to his manipulation of a vulnerable, lonely woman to make it look like suicide. He played the long game with her and her mental health.

Even if he was acquitted, what sort of person brags about being out celebrating and having dinner and being on tv after everything that came out in the trial and everything his family and Elaine's family went through? How callous to even think about celebrating after the inevitable marriage breakdown, destroyed career and deep heartache inflicted on the victim's family.

Tayla

Smidge wrote: »

May have been Tayla but afaik the site he was on was on the upper end of the scale of sexual degeneracy(not sure how to word that any better tbh). Also afaik, was there not some communications between them where they met(this site) that was exactly the type of thing I was talking about? I'm sure there was if my memory serves me right(also dubious communications through it with Darcy)?

I don't remember anything like that, I know that Elaine had ticked knife play, kidnapping etc. as part of her sexual preferences on one of the sites, I don't think they mentioned what Graham had ticked on his profiles or anything particularly incriminating that he sent via those websites.

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

1. Prejudicial media coverage.
2. The judge was too strong in his criticisms and could be seen as biased or leading the jury.
3. Some of the videos on his hard drive were not directly relevant to the case and as such served no function other than to further prejudice the jury against him.

Thanks for the link, in regards to no. 2 when I was reading the judges summing up statement I was convinced he was pushing for a not guilty verdict.

NachoBusiness wrote: »

What did the defence concede by the way? His dna was found in her flat, right? So did he admit knowing her at least? The reporting of the defence's case was very scarce. Or was it just that they did't really have much in the way of one?

He told the gardai in his 4th or 5th interview that he met her on alt.com and they had sex but that he wasn't into knife play and wouldn't cut anybody and he said that years ago Elaine had once asked him to kill her, he denied that the phones were his.

LadyAthame

Greenmachine wrote: »

I would consider myself to have a strong stomach. The case gave me the chills, and made me sick to the stomach. I am sure even in years to come, I won't shake the feeling this case gives me. The fella was cold and calculating, and completely lacking in any remorse. I would not wish what Elaine had gone through on my worst enemy. It sadden that life in this country could mean service a term of less than 10 years, even in a horrifying case.
This is not even a case of a violent drunk who stabbed a partner. This is someone who takes great pleasure in exerting control over other with a twisted malevolence. A person like that can't be helped because, they won't accept treatment.

It's a series of cold hearted but very conscious decisions with total disdain for others. Yes but I would wager for him prison is his worst nightmare he is in the control of the state now. The controlling and manipulative element is dispicable. He will never submit to change.

LadyAthame

Tayla wrote: »

He told the gardai in his 4th or 5th interview that he met her on alt.com and they had sex but that he wasn't into knife play and wouldn't cut anybody and he said that years ago Elaine had once asked him to kill her, he denied that the phones were his.

I think he thought that as they were prepaid that they were untraceable.

LadyAthame

stinkle wrote: »

He was arrogant enough to think he'd gotten away with it. A lot of that was due to his manipulation of a vulnerable, lonely woman to make it look like suicide. He played the long game with her and her mental health.

People keep saying how ill she was but half of her mental state was due to what he was doing.

stickybookmark

sadie06 wrote: »

His smug attitude knew no end. A particularly sickening pursuit of his was his thwarting of plans to have Rachel's headstone erected bearing her maiden name instead of her married name until he had exhausted the appeal process. I believe her family eventually overcame this technicality, but it took years.

Such callousness!

Whaaaat!!

the_monkey

Mallagio wrote: »

This guy will hopefully live until 100 and never be a free man again.

In Ireland though he'll probably be surfing the aul web by 2025 - a free man.

That's a lot of tax money wasted!!

Nah, hopefully in the next few weeks a nice shanking in the chow line ... boom boom boom .. Breaking Bad style ...

realdanbreen

Given that this guy is no fool, he has passed whatever exams are necessary to become an architect, how was he so stupid as to not totally destroy the phones,keys,bondage gear etc. Had he done that he would be out and about in the Sunshine now.

AudreyHepburn

I think this is one of the worst cases ever I've seen....and some awful things have happened in this country.

If the justice system is worth it's salt at all Graham O'Dwyer will never set foot outside his jail cell again. He's a violent sexual deviant and a danger to women. I doubt Elaine is the first woman he hurt and manipulated and if he is let out what's to stop him doing it again?

strandroad

realdanbreen wrote: »

Given that this guy is no fool, he has passed whatever exams are necessary to become an architect, how was he so stupid as to not totally destroy the phones,keys,bondage gear etc. Had he done that he would be out and about in the Sunshine now.

Arrogance. He thought he's so smart and invincible. He was in and out of her flat all the time, bought prepaid phones but gave incriminating details, dumped it all in one place and expected to be out dining - because he thought he's a genius and no one will ever figure it out.
The year before her remains were found must have been peak smug for him.

stickybookmark

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

I hope there is a happy ever after for Ms Darci Day the star witness in the case.

She comes across as a very nice young woman who has had it hard in life.

This is one of her videos.

Wow very interesting. Def the most sympathetic attitude towards Dwyer I've seen/heard so far! She's so sure of her faith she'd nearly convince an atheist!