Graham Dwyer court case *READ FIRST POST BEFORE POSTING*

JPCN1

Simon2015 wrote: »

Graham Dwyer makes a very good case for reintroducing the death penalty.

Why waste millions of euro keeping him locked up for the rest of his life ?

A rope would be alot cheaper.

I oscillate on this one and on balance no. Even when beyond doubt.

Laois_Man

Simon2015 wrote: »

Graham Dwyer makes a very good case for reintroducing the death penalty.

Why waste millions of euro keeping him locked up for the rest of his life ?

A rope would be alot cheaper.

Millions?

That's some expensive porridge!

Simon2015

Laois_Man wrote: »

Millions?

That's some expensive porridge!

It costs about 100k a year to keep someone locked up in a high security prison.

If Dwyer was locked up for 40 years that would cost the tax payer 4 million euro.

Danbo!

130Kph wrote: »

If you were GD's workmate would you have realised he was a repulsive deviant? I don't think I would. Most would quickly identify him as obnoxious or arrogant...

I used to work with him but can't say much due to the hearsay ruling of the mods, but hypothetically speaking, this could be an incredibly spot on observation.

JPCN1

Laois_Man wrote: »

Millions?

That's some expensive porridge!

Close to 100k per year per prisoner. Yep it is expensive.

Especially when we can't afford respite care for the weakest and most desperate in our society.

kylith

Simon2015 wrote: »

It costs about 100k a year to keep someone locked up in a high security prison.

If Dwyer was locked up for 40 years that would cost the tax payer 4 million euro.

It doesn't save much money to execute them by the time they've gone through all the appeals.

Personally I'm against the death penalty because I think death is too good for some people. Some people should spend every day of the remainder of their miserable lives in a 10'x6' room, knowing that they will never breath free air again. Just a shame it's not a dank pit in some cases.

Mallagio

No matter how much it costs, this guy locked up is money well spent.

Simon2015

kylith wrote: »

It doesn't save much money to execute them by the time they've gone through all the appeals.

Personally I'm against the death penalty because I think death is too good for some people. Some people should spend every day of the remainder of their miserable lives in a 10'x6' room, knowing that they will never breath free air again. Just a shame it's not a dank pit in some cases.

They have it too easy in prision with their gyms, plamsa tvs, playstations, snooker tables, libraries etc.

If Dwyer is going to be locked up they should just put him in a cage in Dublin Zoo.

El Weirdo

Simon2015 wrote: »

They have it too easy in prision with their gyms, plamsa tvs, playstations, snooker tables, libraries etc.

Whenever I hear or see stuff like this, I imagine that the vast majority of people that trot this bollocks out would shit themselves at the mere thought of spending a week inside.

tayto lover

Mallagio wrote: »

The more you read about this guy and the case, the more you realize just how lucky the Gardai were in catching his ass.

The hot Summer and with it the low levels of water in the reservoir were his undoing.
That and the diligent fishermen who saw the rucksack in the water plus the Garda who went back again and again continuing to search and eventually finding the phones and the Dunnes Stores loyalty car in Elaine O'Hara's name.

With our usual weather pattern he would never have been caught.

zztop

If Dwyer is going to be locked up they should just put him in a cage in Dublin Zoo.[/QUOTE]


What have the poor animals done to deserve this?

K4t

kylith wrote: »

Personally I'm against the death penalty because I think death is too good for some people.

Of all the things I've read in this thread and about this case, that sentence is right up there with the most sadistic of them.

You're ONLY against the death penalty, because you want people to suffer worse fates than death? Scary.

Lord Trollington

K4t wrote: »

No, he doesn't.

Anyone have the links to the stuff he had downloaded on his computer? PM please.

What stuff had he downloaded on his computer?

K4t

Lord Trollington wrote: »

What stuff had he downloaded on his computer?

Sexy stuff.

eviltwin

K4t wrote: »

No, he doesn't.

Anyone have the links to the stuff he had downloaded on his computer? PM please.

You don't really want to watch that stuff do you :eek:

kylith

K4t wrote: »

Of all the things I've read in this thread and about this case, that sentence is right up there with the most sadistic of them.

You're ONLY against the death penalty, because you want people to suffer worse fates than death? Scary.

I don't want anyone tortured, maimed, or hurt in any way. I just want them to know that they will never walk out of that prison again. If that makes me a monster in your eyes then so be it.

K4t

eviltwin wrote: »

You don't really want to watch that stuff do you :eek:

What else would I want to do with it?

K4t

kylith wrote: »

I don't want anyone tortured, maimed, or hurt in any way. I just want them to know that they will never walk out of that prison again. If that makes me a monster in your eyes then so be it.

Ah, ok then. Maybe it's the way you phrased it. I would hope you'd be against the death penalty for reasons other than you think people should suffer a worse fate than death!

kylith

K4t wrote: »

Ah, ok then. Maybe it's the way you phrased it. I would hope you'd be against the death penalty for reasons other than you think people should suffer a worse fate than death!

Perhaps I didn't phrase it well.

I kind of mean it about the dank pit though. Only for the worst of the worst though, the people who didn't kill but destroyed lives.

Dwarf.Shortage

K4t wrote: »

Ah, ok then. Maybe it's the way you phrased it. I would hope you'd be against the death penalty for reasons other than you think people should suffer a worse fate than death!

There is no right answer to the question of what should be valued higher, justice or mercy, different people will stand differently on this.

I'm aware life can't be reduced to maths like this but personally I would like to be absolutely certain that the aggregate effect this has on ruining Graham Dwyer's life is greater than the sum of the damage done to all the innocent lives he has ruined or severely damaged.

Elaine O'Hara, her family for whom as they said so touchingly there will be no parole, his wife who has been plastered all over the media, his children who are guilty of nothing other than getting the wrong ticket in the lottery of birth, the taxpayer who has footed both sides of this case and will fund every day he spends in prison while we cut budgets for mental health services that could actually help the kind of people that manipulators like him prey on, children who've heard things on radios and televisions that no adult could ever come to terms with never mind a naive innocent child, people in the media and on the jury who had to sit through graphic footage of him satisfying his depraved urges and now have to find some way of forgetting what they were forced to witness.

I don't want him killed, but I want him to suffer in proportion to all of that.

Mallagio

tayto lover wrote: »

The hot Summer and with it the low levels of water in the reservoir were his undoing.
That and the diligent fishermen who saw the rucksack in the water plus the Garda who went back again and again continuing to search and eventually finding the phones and the Dunnes Stores loyalty car in Elaine O'Hara's name.

With our usual weather pattern he would never have been caught.

Yep, I'm just so glad those crazy amount of coincidences happened, this guy would have been so smug thinking there was absolutely no chance of these items ever surfacing again - NPI.

Wow it's hard to believe that much barbarity came from a sleepy suburb in Dublin, beggars belief really.

Hope he lives long & his mind kills him slowly.

JillyQ

Montroseee wrote: »

A minimum of 15, after that it is up to the parole board.

So if he only serves the minimum sentence he will only be 57 when he gets out. That is so wrong. Life should mean life.

K4t

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

I don't want him killed, but I want him to suffer in proportion to all of that.

Is it not enough that he has been imprisoned? Removed from society? What other kind of suffering do you wish him to endure? Beatings? Stabbing? Rape? Would you be willing to serve this punishment yourself to the man? Or would you be happy for others to do so?

Ave Sodalis

What happens in terms of his marriage, in cases like this? Would the wife automatically be entitled to divorce?

Mallagio

Tarzana2 wrote: »

So scary to imagine him still on the streets.

Yes he would have done it again, that's for sure.

JillyQ

sup_dude wrote: »

What happens in terms of his marriage, in cases like this? Would the wife automatically be entitled to divorce?

You would hope that she is & that she can change her children's surname as well.

Dwarf.Shortage

K4t wrote: »

Is it not enough that he has been imprisoned? Removed from society? What other kind of suffering do you wish him to endure? Beatings? Stabbing? Rape? Would you be willing to serve this punishment yourself to the man? Or would you be happy for others to do so?

Absolutely not, two wrongs don't make a right and even though he does not respect the right of others to not come to unwanted harm I still extend him that right. The kind of suffering I want GD to endure is in his own head, for him to take responsibility for what he has done and to spend the rest of his life incarcerated, unable to look himself in the eye and believe he is good man, unable to stop thinking about the suffering he has caused and unable to quieten his own mind, tortured by his own thoughts.

Her families grief has no off button, in his case I value justice higher than mercy, I would rarely say this about another human but I want him to suffer for the rest of his life because it is what he deserves.

Rayne Wooney

In cases like this would he be allowed see his kids?

Surely they should be kept as far away as possible

Tayla

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Absolutely not, two wrongs don't make a right and even though he does not respect the right of others to not come to unwanted harm I still extend him that right. The kind of suffering I want GD to endure is in his own head, for him to take responsibility for what he has done and to spend the rest of his life incarcerated, unable to look himself in the eye and believe he is good man, unable to stop thinking about the suffering he has caused and unable to quieten his own mind, tortured by his own thoughts.

I would say that's unlikely, I think he will certainly suffer in his own head but not for the right reasons, I think he will feel hard done by and feel sorry for himself and will be tormented by the fact that he can no longer live out any of us urges.

Dwarf.Shortage

Tayla wrote: »

I would say that's unlikely, I think he will certainly suffer in his own head but not for the right reasons, I think he will feel hard done by and feel sorry for himself and will be tormented by the fact that he can no longer live out any of us urges.

I know, he doesn't strike me as the remorse type. Was more a discussion of what I'd like to happen than what I think will happen.

K4t

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Absolutely not, two wrongs don't make a right and even though he does not respect the right of others to not come to unwanted harm I still extend him that right. The kind of suffering I want GD to endure is in his own head, for him to take responsibility for what he has done and to spend the rest of his life incarcerated, unable to look himself in the eye and believe he is good man, unable to stop thinking about the suffering he has caused and unable to quieten his own mind.

Her families grief has no off button, in his case I value justice higher than mercy, I would rarely say this about another human but I want him to suffer for the rest of his life because it is what he deserves.

So you want him to suffer a sort of self inflicted mental torture? Do you not think that maybe he already has serious psychological and mental problems? But you would rather they be compounded while in prison than any sort of rehabilitation be attempted?

Dwarf.Shortage

K4t wrote: »

So you want him to suffer a sort of self inflicted mental torture? Do you not think that maybe he already has serious psychological and mental problems? But you would rather they be compounded while in prison than any sort of rehabilitation be attempted?

Yes, he is cognisant and intelligent enough to know right from wrong and to know the grief he was going to cause her family so that is no defence, and finally yes as I don't think he is rehabable nor do I empathise with him.

Goat the dote

Rayne Wooney wrote:

allowed

I

Rayne Wooney wrote:

In cases like this would he be allowed see his kids?

Surely they should be kept as far away as possible

I'd hope he isn't.
I don't know where his former wife is located but I know if a judge tried to enforce this for me I'd be leaving the country

Tayla

K4t wrote: »

So you want him to suffer a sort of self inflicted mental torture? Do you not think that maybe he already has serious psychological and mental problems? But you would rather they be compounded while in prison than any sort of rehabilitation be attempted?

I think it's obvious he has some sort of psychological problems, I read somewhere that he most likely had a personality disorder and that that coupled with sexual sadism disorder makes the person far more likely to kill or hurt other people. I don't think rehabilitation could ever work.

I think more than likely he was born like this so it's pretty unlucky in a way because he never had a chance to be normal....but at the same time I don't feel bad for him because there is no alternate Graham Dwyer to feel sorry for if that makes sense because he doesn't exist.

K4t

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Yes, he is cognisant and intelligent enough to know right from wrong and to know the grief he was going to cause her family so that is no defence, and finally yes as I don't think he is rehabable nor do I empathise with him.

If he is as you say, intelligent enough to know right from wrong, then maybe he possesses the ability to reflect upon and express remorse for his crimes? Would this not be a more desirable outcome for all than him mentally torturing himself for the rest of his life?

Tayla wrote: »

I think it's obvious he has some sort of psychological problems, I read somewhere that he most likely had a personality disorder and that that coupled with sexual sadism disorder makes the person far more likely to kill or hurt other people. I don't think rehabilitation could ever work.

I think more than likely he was born like this so it's pretty unlucky in a way because he never had a chance to be normal....but at the same time I don't feel bad for him because there is no alternate Graham Dwyer to feel sorry for if that makes sense because he doesn't exist.

Surely if he was born that way then you would feel bad for him as he obviously did not choose to be born that way, irrespective of what choices he subsequently made? Perhaps rehabilitation could not work, but perhaps early intervention or detection would have?

_Whimsical_

K4t wrote: »

If he is as you say, intelligent enough to know right from wrong, then maybe he possesses the ability to reflect upon and express remorse for his crimes? Would this not be a more desirable outcome for all than him mentally torturing himself for the rest of his life?


Surely if he was born that way then you would feel bad for him as he obviously did not choose to be born that way, irrespective of what choices he subsequently made? Perhaps rehabilitation could not work, but perhaps early intervention or detection would have?

In respect of your first question intelligence and ability to empathise are not at all linked. He clearly has not felt remorse .If he had done so he has had opportunity to express it but he has not done so. He released a statement to media when he was charged thanking his friends,family and colleagues for their support. He made no mention of Elaine O'Hara or her family. He mentioned the case of a young teenage girl brutally stabbed to death in Dublin and his only comment on it was to say what a lucky guy her killer was.

Dwarf.Shortage

K4t wrote: »

If he is as you say, intelligent enough to know right from wrong, then maybe he possesses the ability to reflect upon and express remorse for his crimes? Would this not be a more desirable outcome for all than him mentally torturing himself for the rest of his life?

I do hope that he shows remorse (but highly doubt he will), I just want said remorse to hurt. If he woke up tomorrow, took responsibility for his actions and felt remorseful then got parole in 15 years I would be unconvinced that justice had been done. In our PC world it is considered distasteful to want another human to suffer, but I want him to suffer and I have no qualms about that.

Dwarf.Shortage

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

He mentioned the case of a young teenage girl brutally stabbed to death in Dublin and his only comment on it was to say what a lucky guy her killer was.

Link?

_Whimsical_

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Link?

It was from a text message he sent commenting on the stabbing in Dublin.

Mr Guerin continued reading the text messages for much of the morning, explaining that the following text related to a woman being stabbed in Dublin in 2011.

“Big mistake leaving a witness,” wrote the author. “Imagine the knife going in and out of her... lucky guy.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/my-urge-to-rape-stab-and-kill-is-huge-308575.html

Dwarf.Shortage

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

It was from a text message he sent commenting on the stabbing in Dublin.



http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/my-urge-to-rape-stab-and-kill-is-huge-308575.html

Throw away the key.

K4t

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

In respect of your first question intelligence and ability to empathise are not at all linked. He clearly has not felt remorse .If he had done so he has had opportunity to express it but he has not done so.

Yes, I know, I said the possibility of showing remorse. As in it would be better for him and society were he to possibly reach a state of mind where he did show remorse, or at least attempt to do so, rather than him suffering self inflicted mental torture with no possibility of any sort of recovery for the rest of his life as some would prefer. And if it is not possible for him to reach that stage as you suspect, then surely wishing further punishment on someone who is not capable of such thinking, is in itself sadistic?

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

In our PC world it is considered distasteful to want another human to suffer, but I want him to suffer and I have no qualms about that.

Surely you don't want him to suffer, but rather others not to suffer because of him? Which is the idea of prison; removing those who do harm to others from society?

Dwarf.Shortage

K4t wrote: »

Surely you don't want him to suffer, but rather others not to suffer because of him? Which is the idea of prison; removing those who do harm to others from society?

If that was what I meant I would have said it.

Simon2015

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

In our PC world it is considered distasteful to want another human to suffer, but I want him to suffer and I have no qualms about that.

Even the PC mob would claim that Dwyer has same human rights as you or me.

You coundn't make it up.

Allyall

K4t wrote: »

Of all the things I've read in this thread and about this case, that sentence is right up there with the most sadistic of them.

You're ONLY against the death penalty, because you want people to suffer worse fates than death? Scary.

Not me you were quoting, but I don't count him as people.

K4t wrote: »

Is it not enough that he has been imprisoned? Removed from society? What other kind of suffering do you wish him to endure? Beatings? Stabbing? Rape? Would you be willing to serve this punishment yourself to the man? Or would you be happy for others to do so?

K4t wrote: »

So you want him to suffer a sort of self inflicted mental torture? Do you not think that maybe he already has serious psychological and mental problems? But you would rather they be compounded while in prison than any sort of rehabilitation be attempted?

I would be happy to learn that every day somebody is pulling a bit of each fingernail out, and that Electrodes are constantly being moved around his body, so he doesn't become accustomed to the pain in a specific area.
I would be overjoyed to think that as each day passed, he was inflicting some sort of mental torture on himself.

I also find it odd that you are looking for the stuff he had downloaded on his computer, even if you were to tell me that you wanted it for research puroposes.

LadyAthame

Allyall wrote: »

I would be happy to learn that every day somebody is pulling a bit of each fingernail out, and that Electrodes are constantly being moved around his body, so he doesn't become accustomed to the pain in a specific area.
I would be overjoyed to think that as each day passed, he was inflicting some sort of mental torture on himself.

There are three types of people who like BDSM the sub masochist, the sado dominant and the switch. Some of those who the boundaries of mutual consent, fantasy and pleasure do the very things that you have mentioned. They enjoy them.

Now bear this in mind. You are talking about society being seduced into the sadist role only without the boundaries of consent, mutual pleasure and fantasy.

It's not justice. Society needs to learn to harness it's aggression and it's pleasure from aggression in a healthier way.

The other option is we would come to understand Dwyer's desire to hurt someone who was not enjoying it rather too closely.

I think if we were to do that we would grow just as mad as he is.


We could laugh at him in a brazen bull or put him on the rack. But then we have to make these things and people make money from them and then they will want to expand their business and and and and ...you get the picture. There is an industry of death in America and the justice system is not in control of it.

Having him partially hung, disemboweled and cut into quaters is something we should savor only in our minds.

Allyall

LadyAthame wrote: »

There are three types of people who like BDSM the sub masochist, the sado dominant and the switch. Some of those who the boundaries of mutual consent, fantasy and pleasure do the very things that you have mentioned. They enjoy them.

Now bear this in mind. You are talking about society being seduced into the sadist role only without the boundaries of consent, mutual pleasure and fantasy.

It's not justice. Society needs to learn to harness it's aggression and it's pleasure from aggression in a healthier way.

The other option is we would come to understand Dwyer's desire to hurt someone who was not enjoying it rather too closely.

I think if we were to do that we would grow just as mad as he is.


We could laugh at him in a brazen bull or put him on the rack. But then we have to make these things and people make money from them and then they will want to expand their business and and and and ...you get the picture. There is an industry of death in America and the justice system is not in control of it.

Having him partially hung, disemboweled and cut into quaters is something we should savor only in our minds.

TL:DR
Society, nuthin.
I'd like to hear he's suffering.

-

Just read the bottom bit.
I don't want him hung drawn and quartered, that would mean he's dead.

I'd take away his laptop for starters.. :pac:

But being more serious, I think I would like to know he's suffering.

Edit

There are nineteen types of bullsh!tter.

discodiva92

Point I heard was why were the men outer in the case being kinky but not the women?This case if it was a rape case would have had no media coverage allowed.

LadyAthame

discodiva92 wrote: »

Point I heard was why were the men outer in the case being kinky but not the women?This case if it was a rape case would have had no media coverage allowed.

That is the point you heard?

Darci May was outed. She testified. The men who were named were witnesses in the trial. The other woman was not called as a witness.

LadyAthame

I agree though. The seeming lack of any public or media disquiet about the 'outing' of the men who had been involved with EOH was certainly noticeable. If they did nothing wrong then they did nothing wrong consent is consent etc.

I think it's more people are drawn to the focal point of the tragedy namely EOH and her family though. I don't know what the big issue is. They would hardly be participating in BDSM sessions if they felt there was anything instrinsically wrong with it. I know it might be embarrassing. Who knows perhaps they are married so that might be it. Discretion I would imagine is a cornerstone in that.

Other women were named however one particular woman in the video was not. The prosecution might have felt her testimony was not necessary and she might have been weak but she was not called. She was also an employee of a state body. Make of that what you will. Much has been made that a solicitor seemingly knew the accused in a certain 'fashion'.

I don't hold with outing men who did nothing wrong. But it's not the focal point of discussion for me. I imagine that is why you are not hearing it discussed. But they were named as witnesses though. The other woman was not. The American woman was called. She was named.

Unfortunately at this stage it seems many journalists know the woman's name and it's only a matter of time before she is named.

Also it is not a rape trial it was a murder trial. Perhaps these men should have had their identity protected. They only participated in what was consensual.

ALiasEX

nokia69 wrote: »

I wonder was just looking for some more free bondage gear

and all he found were a couple of old phones

Is that how you got your username?