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Should Muslim Countries take more responsibility for migrants?
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UKIP are not prominent – that’s the point. Farage is a darling of the media, granted, but UKIP will win no more than a couple of seats in the election tomorrow. That makes them about as “prominent” as the Greens.
I think you are being either wilfully ignorant of the facts here or naive about the truth. It is true that UKIP will only win a handful of seats, given the British electoral system of first past the post. They will however, given previous polls have about 12% of the vote.
However, their influence will stem from the fact in how they have influenced the debate itself. More speicifly immigration and the British relationship with the EU.
Even Labour itself has admitted it was a mistake to let so many migrants in and that their policy under Blair and Brown in relation to migration policy was wrong.
The Tories have taken note and have promised some controls on immigration and a referendum on the EU (when this will happen is something else though). Even Labour have gotten in on the act.
See point 4.
Would this have happened without UKIP bringing these topics to the fore. Probably not.
To look at influence purely at the amount of seats one gets is missing the point completely. The PD's were the most influential party in Irish politics for 20 years, yet they never managed to win more than 12 seats in any election. They have now become irrelevant due to other parties adopting the same stance on most of their key issues.0 -
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The PDs had about 7% of the seats in Leinster House. UKIP look set to win about 0.3?% of the seats in The Commons – there’s simply no comparison. Never mind the fact that a number of PD policies actually had some merit, whereas UKIP’s whole manifesto is pure nonsense.
Lol UKIP is in for a dose of reality by the weekend.
From what I've seen, the online supporters of a 0.3% party seem to have deluded themselves into thinking there's a conspiracy to rig the polls and that their true level of support will be realised tomorrow. :rolleyes:0 -
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I disagree, but anyway, the same notion of historic superiority is evident in the UK public’s desire to leave the EU. There’s a misguided idea that Britain is still a global superpower that is being inconvenienced by the EU.
Of course you disagree because you have nothing to fall back on, nor any stats or proof of your claim. I'ts like one having a high regard to the 1916-1922 IRA somehow translates to someone backing the Provo's to the hilt in their terror campaign. Utterly a false equivalence. Never mind the fact that the British Military had no say whether or not to go into Iraq or Afghanistan in the first place. That decision was solely given over to the government of the day, that is center left Labour under their hero Tony Blair....! So having a high regard for the British military has zero, nada, squat to do with imperialistic notions, when said Military has no say in what foreign policy to conduct in the first place.
Notions of leaving the EU is not isolated to the UK, in fact a sizable proportion of people in France, Ireland, Sweden, Italy and elsewhere would like to untangle themselves somewhat from EU regulations, laws and treaties. One may blindly accuse say Thatcher harbors notions of empire, yet her say on the single currency and her demand that the UK stay of out it has been proven utterly correct. Also, where are these people that think that Britannia is a superpower along with the US, or are you arguing in airy generalities again?Because of oil, probably.
Ah the grand fall back on every argument on the Middle East, even though there is zero evidence that the West invaded both Afghanistan and Iraq because of oil.
When I hear the 'It's oil stupid' argument, I know I am winning.Fair enough, although the last point (the Armenian genocide) is a little more complex.
Oh, this is interesting. Oh please do tell. Tell me how the murder and killing of 1.5 million Armenians by the Turks in the period of 1915-1918 was not 'genocide'. Only last month the European parliament officially recognised it as much.Come on – you can’t hold Turkey responsible for acts committed by the Ottomans centuries ago. That’s crazy.
We do it in the West all the time, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
(penny dropping?)They have “admitted” this in the name of political point-scoring. I don’t believe for a second that any senior figures in the Labour party actually believe this nonsense. Likewise, I don’t believe for a second that David Cameron really thinks the UK would be better off outside the EU.
Ah, the no true Scotsman fallacy now. So you are saying that when Gordon Brown stated "British jobs for British people' in 2009....
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/jan/30/brown-british-jobs-workersGordon Brown has no regrets over using the phrase "British jobs for British workers", Downing Street insisted today as a series of unofficial strikes broke out over UK construction jobs awarded to European workers.
As anger intensified over plans by oil companies to employ Portuguese and Italian workers, the prime minister said that he understood people's concerns.
Asked whether the prime minister regretted using the controversial phrase, branded illegal and racist by critics, his spokesman in London said: "I don't see any reason for regret.
....or when in 2013 Jack Straw stated that Labour made a 'spectacular mistake' on immigration in 2004
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10445585/Labour-made-a-spectacular-mistake-on-immigration-admits-Jack-Straw.htmlJack Straw has admitted that opening Britain's borders to Eastern European migrants was a "spectacular mistake".
The former Labour Home Secretary said his party's decision to allow migrants from Poland and Hungary to work in Britain from 2004 was a ‘"well-intentioned policy we messed up".
....they say it but don't really really mean it or believe it. How sweet. I would love to have your gift in knowing when a person is telling the truth or not in what the believe or not believe....
Regardless of all this, my point stands and wins. Even if this was political point scoring, they are doing so to ward off the advance made by UKIP in putting these issues front and centre of mainstream political discussion.No, probably not, but their influence is still being grossly exaggerated by the media.
Thanks for conceding my primary point. However, what media is this exactly? The media who have traditionally sided with either Labour or the Tories? The Labour media have often written wholly sensationalist crap about UKIP and the Tory media that are scared that a UKIP vote will split the traditional right of centre vote, which will let Labour in through the back door. Perhaps you should look at this before you claim that UKIP is the 'darling' of the media (unless of course the same media want to shfit copies, then yes UKIP the boogey men are very useful for that)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorsements_in_the_United_Kingdom_general_election,_2015The PDs had about 7% of the seats in Leinster House. UKIP look set to win about 0.3?% of the seats in The Commons – there’s simply no comparison. Never mind the fact that a number of PD policies actually had some merit, whereas UKIP’s whole manifesto is pure nonsense.
Again, you are looking at this through purely numerical terms of seats = influence and power. You have admitted yourself that the EU and migration issues would not have been put front and centre in this general election without UKIP pushing this narrative.
The PD's entered government for the first time in 1989 with 6 seats, that is 3.6% of the Dail total. They entered government again in 1997 with 4 seats, that is 2.4% of Dail seats. In 2002 they won 8 seats, 4.8% and in 2007 they won 2 seats which is 1.2% of total
In the 6 governments when the party existed they were in government 4 times, yet never won more than 4.8% of Dail seats. They have been the most influential political party in Irish politics during this time, more influential than both FG and Labour combined who won many many times more seats than they did.
The point? Counting seats and directly equating it to power and influence is utterly wrong and foolish. I am not drawing an equivalence that UKIP are the British PD's at the moment. However, I do take issue with your statement that after the election, UKIP will revert into being "irrelevant" when even you have admitted after this statement that they have shaped the political discourse over the past few years and brought immigration and Britian's relationship with the EU under scrutiny. If you equate that with being 'irrelevant' then I know plenty of parties who would love to be 'irrelevant'.0 -
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It's about time the rose tinted glasses were smashed. This is what is behind the mass exodus of people from North Africa
http://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/islamic-state-planning-to-use-libya-as-gateway-to-europe/ar-BBhH95q
How could you believe such propaganda? We in Ireland will take them in, sure they wouldn't cause trouble once they see how kind we are now, would they? 0 -
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