Marriage may be contracted in accordance with law by two persons without distinction

L1011

ByfocalPhoto wrote: »

It is the one about the guy who running a wedding stuff shop. Invitations etc. He catered for marriages and civil unions and one or two of staff happened to be gay. He shared some space with a lady who made statuettes for cake tops. One of them featured a same sex couple and he dared to express reservations about that. She threatened to go public unless he retracted the viewpoint. He naively called her bluff. She went on line and in fairly short order he was bullied/boycotted out of business. He lost his business. He and his family were subject to dogs abuse.

If I were eligible to vote and if I was on the fence that one ad would tip me into the no camp.

That sort of PC Thought Police / economic terrorism must not be validated.

http://www.thejournal.ie/daintree-same-sex-1107532-Sep2013/

At the time of starting the process to close the shop he denied to the hilt that it had anything to do with it, oddly enough. Claim was that it was winding down naturally for ages and he wanted to focus on another business.

What happened was that people decided to vote with their wallets - as we're often told should be done in these cases rather than resorting to the courts*. His target audience would not hugely be of people agreeing with that viewpoint, sales dropped. Shop is still open under new owners and appears to be thriving.

Additionally - this happened well before the referendum was ever mentioned. Its a spent topic, being dragged up and dusted off as if it has some relevance now when it doesn't.

If you consider it "economic terrorism" you may want to tell the many people who advocate precisely that - shopping elsewhere if you disagree with the owners ethos. Generally they are people who agree with the owners ethos and want them to continue to be allowed discriminate*

*not applicable in this case as stocking something is rather different, and not protected, to provision of goods and services. He did nothing illegal, but he made his biases public and the public decided not to support him.

Hotblack Desiato

Hmmm I wonder was refusing to shop in Dunnes 30 years ago while they continued to stock South African produce and lock out their staff who refused to handle it, 'economic terrorism' too?

The flip side of the 'can refuse to serve X cause I don't like X / my god doesn't like X*' is that 'X people, their friends and families, and people who don't have a problem with X can take their business elsewhere, and if that sinks you, tough titties.'


* Isn't it odd how one's god always agrees with the prejudices one holds?

ByfocalPhoto

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Hmmm I wonder was refusing to shop in Dunnes 30 years ago while they continued to stock South African produce and lock out their staff who refused to handle it, 'economic terrorism' too?

I can't vote so it is irrelevant but I was making the point that it was a powerful ad and will knock people off the fence.

There is a big difference between personally deciding not to support a business and orchestrating a campaign against them.
South Africa is another thread, Johannesburg was a showpiece 30 years ago, hint, don't go there now.
If you want to start a thread on that topic I will be happy to chip in.

Hotblack Desiato

Escape & Evasion. It's not just for the military.

gravehold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1vxpvHLPRo

How we really feel about our straight allies, thankfully after today no more cap in hand and fakeness needed we will have the HRC on discrimination to back us up, so no more begging for scraps we an force it through the courts

Fools think it's about equality

L1011

ByfocalPhoto wrote: »

There is a big difference between personally deciding not to support a business and orchestrating a campaign against them.

There was no campaign 'orchestrated' - telling other people who you suspect have similar opinions to you is not "orchestrating a campaign"

As goes the former owners already revisionist line given on what happened - entire cellar of salt needed in believing any of it.

hmmm

I haven't seen the ad that's being discussed, but if you want to take a "moral" position on something that might affect your business, it's not "bullying" if customers who disagree with your viewpoint decide to take their business elsewhere.

seamus

Very hard to get a handle on how this one will go. Online, both on forums and social media it's overwhelmingly a "Yes". In journalism/enterntainment there is not a single respectable celebrity or member of the media pushing for a "No" vote.

Within the people I know, I have heard of just two people voting no, everyone else voting yes - and proper yesses too, not nodding dogs.

But then other people talk about how almost everyone they know is voting "No". So I'm obviously very wary that I could be surrounded by an environment that reflects me, and not one reflecting wider society.

I expect some pretty big gulfs in patterns. Urban/suburban Ireland will go overwhelmingly Yes - 70% or more in favour, rural areas may come much closer. As I've said before, Donegal is the one to watch. If any part of Donegal doesn't return a "No", then a win is guaranteed.

I know some people were claiming this would be a low turnout referendum, but I think the exact opposite, this one could perhaps touch 70%. People I know who never vote, turned up at the polling centre at 7am today. There's a passion in this referendum that I've never seen before. Unfortunately a high turnout likely means the presidential amendment will be squashed, but I think that's by far the lesser of two evils.

ForstalDave

Most people are friends with people who think like them hence the everyone i know voting yes/no. I honestly believe a yes will pass but it depends on turn out

Loafing Oaf

seamus wrote: »

Very hard to get a handle on how this one will go.

Well it's 1/33 Yes with Paddy Power...

Black Menorca

ForstalDave wrote: »

Most people are friends with people who think like them hence the everyone i know voting yes/no. I honestly believe a yes will pass but it depends on turn out

If No gets to 40% it will be a wonderful achievement, given the wall to wall advocacy for Yes from Official Ireland from day one.

traprunner

Black Menorca wrote: »

If No gets to 40% it will be a wonderful achievement, given the wall to wall advocacy for Yes from Real Ireland from day one.

FYP

I still expect 60:40 in favour of Yes. But I'm optimistic it may be up to 65%

CramCycle

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Well it's 1/33 Yes with Paddy Power...

Might throw on 33quid and get a free pack of biscuits to celebrate tomorrow

United Chester Men

seamus wrote: »

Very hard to get a handle on how this one will go. Online, both on forums and social media it's overwhelmingly a "Yes". In journalism/enterntainment there is not a single respectable celebrity or member of the media pushing for a "No" vote.

Within the people I know, I have heard of just two people voting no, everyone else voting yes - and proper yesses too, not nodding dogs.

But then other people talk about how almost everyone they know is voting "No". So I'm obviously very wary that I could be surrounded by an environment that reflects me, and not one reflecting wider society.

I expect some pretty big gulfs in patterns. Urban/suburban Ireland will go overwhelmingly Yes - 70% or more in favour, rural areas may come much closer. As I've said before, Donegal is the one to watch. If any part of Donegal doesn't return a "No", then a win is guaranteed.

I know some people were claiming this would be a low turnout referendum, but I think the exact opposite, this one could perhaps touch 70%. People I know who never vote, turned up at the polling centre at 7am today. There's a passion in this referendum that I've never seen before. Unfortunately a high turnout likely means the presidential amendment will be squashed, but I think that's by far the lesser of two evils.

It will be 70/30 Yes/No. In fact it could surpass that. I find it astounding people think it will be closer. Every indication gives it a Yes vote. Lowish turnout and younger voters.

United Chester Men

United Chester Men wrote: »

It will be 70/30 Yes/No. In fact it could surpass that. I find it astounding people think it will be closer. Every indication gives it a Yes vote. Lowish turnout and younger voters.

Fill your boots. Paddy power giving you 5/6 that it will be over 60.5 / 39.5.

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/irish-politics/gay-marriage-referendum-yes-vote-percentage

United Chester Men

CramCycle wrote: »

Might throw on 33quid and get a free pack of biscuits to celebrate tomorrow

Got to be these!

United Chester Men

Deleted User wrote: »

Fill your boots. Paddy power giving you 5/6 that it will be over 60.5 / 39.5.

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/irish-politics/gay-marriage-referendum-yes-vote-percentage

Thats a given!! Free money there, if ever there was!

Cheers for heads up!

Haven't been taking as much notice of the Presidential Age polls. What are the odds there? I assume No is the big favourite 1/3 is my guess?

colossus-x

AlphaRed wrote: »

Lets remember ...
...understanding of the issue.

One last pathetic attempt by you to swing votes on a boards account set up deliberately and separately from your main account to spread your nonsense. You don't even want to be associated with your own comments which as I've said before is rather reassuring. As I predicted a high turnout so far and that could only favor the YES side. Can't wait to gloat tomorrow.

Black Menorca

colossus-x wrote: »

One last pathetic attempt by you to swing votes on a boards account set up deliberately and separately from your main account to spread your nonsense. You don't even want to be associated with your own comments which as I've said before is rather reassuring. As I predicted a high turnout so far and that could only favor the YES side. Can't wait to gloat tomorrow.

That will be most unfortunate if the Yes side become triumphant tomorrow.

United Chester Men

colossus-x wrote: »

One last pathetic attempt by you to swing votes on a boards account set up deliberately and separately from your main account to spread your nonsense. You don't even want to be associated with your own comments which as I've said before is rather reassuring. As I predicted a high turnout so far and that could only favor the YES side. Can't wait to gloat tomorrow.

I anticipate most of the No advocates on these sites couldn't care less about the referendum in the long run and just want to go against the grain and argue for a while on Boards just to get a reaction. Once it is passed you won't hear a murmur from them and they will move on to the next "debate". AS IT WONT AFFECT THEM IN THE SLIGHTEST.

PopePalpatine

CramCycle wrote: »

Might throw on 33quid and get a free pack of biscuits to celebrate tomorrow

Boylesports were offering an over/under line for Yes of 59.5% this morning, I'm not sure if that line has changed since.

colossus-x

United Chester Men wrote: »

I anticipate most of the No advocates on these sites couldn't care less about the referendum in the long run and just want to go against the grain and argue for a while on Boards just to get a reaction. Once it is passed you won't hear a murmur from them and they will move on to the next "debate". AS IT WONT AFFECT THEM IN THE SLIGHTEST.

Golly ,I didn't think of that but your probably dead right !

Black Menorca wrote: »

That will be most unfortunate if the Yes side become triumphant tomorrow.

I don't think that reply was worth the effort really.

traprunner

Black Menorca wrote: »

That will be most unfortunate if the Yes side become triumphant tomorrow.

It would probably be very tame compared to the gloating by the No side if they won.

Right Turn Clyde

I'll be voting Yes later this evening. However, I've been very disappointed by the way many on the Yes side have conducted themselves these past weeks. Read back through this thread, and many others, and just look at how intolerant many of you have been of opposing views. If this was any other issue I'd vote No just to register my disapproval. But this is too important to throw my toys out of the pram.

Congrats to all of those who put in the hard, honest work, but shame to the bullies and creeps, on both sides of the fence.

Happyman42

'The young are coming out to vote' according to RTE.

We'll be over-run by the de gays before this is over!

United Chester Men

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

I'll be voting Yes later this evening. However, I've been very disappointed by the way many on the Yes side have conducted themselves these past weeks. Read back through this thread, and many others, and just look at how intolerant many of you have been of opposing views. If this was any other issue I'd vote No just to register my disapproval. But this is too important to throw my toys out of the pram.

Congrats to all of those who put in the hard, honest work, but shame to the bullies and creeps, on both sides of the fence.

Oh, come on! If you believe in something you should vote on it, regardless. I completely agree that their has been a lot of bully tactics attempted to be used by both sides, more vocally by the Yes side and demonstratively also. However there has been underhand tactics used by the No side which have been, arguably, a lot more sinister like the use of children to fuel their arguments and the victimisation and accusations of bully tactics. Both sides have given as much as they have taken. I anticipate the overall emotion of the vote and what it will mean in the long run for those who are in same sex relationships or gay and single has led to some very offensive things being said but such is human nature and you will find the same level of remarks thrown in any meaningful election/vote anywhere.

Your vote shouldn't be about the voters but what the vote means to you and those around you.

United Chester Men

Oh, and yes, I completely agree if everyone believes in their views, whether YES or NO, they have that democratic right. But if they speak out vocalising and advocating these views, thus dismissing other opposing voters' views they leave themselves open to debate/criticism etc. Its the nature of the game. Unfortuately social media allows for a more vitriolic debate.

United Chester Men

Happyman42 wrote: »

'The young are coming out to vote' according to RTE.

We'll be over-run by the de gays before this is over!

Does your username indicate your age. If so...................... 42 is a little old to be acting like a 13 year old.

secman

Just did a sweeps in the office, 12 people, all straight, 2 female 10 male. Aged from 24 to 72.
All voting yes.
most optimistic was 72/28
least optimistic was 51/49
Average is 61/39

Yes..........Please

Happyman42

United Chester Men wrote: »

Does your username indicate your age. If so...................... 42 is a little old to be acting like a 13 year old.

Chill. Delighted my sense of humour is still intact in my 50's. I'd hate to end up bitter and twisted like this person.

United Chester Men

Happyman42 wrote: »

Chill. Delighted my sense of humour is still intact in my 50's. I'd hate to end up bitter and twisted like this person.

christ! I looked up her account and we have one mutual friend......................

ah, come on "overrun with "de gays" " is hardly a humourous thing to say in y opinion but each to their own!

ByfocalPhoto

gravehold wrote:

Fools think it's about equality

Was this a pro yes or no video ?

Michael OBrien

ByfocalPhoto wrote: »

Was this a pro yes or no video ?

Its an incredibly Pro Yes message.

Ave Sodalis

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

I'll be voting Yes later this evening. However, I've been very disappointed by the way many on the Yes side have conducted themselves these past weeks. Read back through this thread, and many others, and just look at how intolerant many of you have been of opposing views. If this was any other issue I'd vote No just to register my disapproval. But this is too important to throw my toys out of the pram.

Congrats to all of those who put in the hard, honest work, but shame to the bullies and creeps, on both sides of the fence.

Can I just say, this thread is a terrible example. Most of the No people on here have made their views clear in other threads and the one previous to this. They're just repeating the same crap over and over and people were getting fed up with it. When a poster makes an account specifically for these threads to come out with the same stuff and refuse point blank to look at the actual facts, or those who make completely ridiculous statements...

The thing is, if you look at the posts, you can see that they repeat themselves, a lot. It's usually the bandwagon brigade too that bring it up (those who don't actually have an argument and jump on whatever they can think of). Disproving an argument again and again with the poster refusing to listen is tiring. I'm not surprised people started losing themselves a bit over it.

Happyman42

United Chester Men wrote: »

christ! I looked up her account and we have one mutual friend......................

ah, come on "overrun with "de gays" " is hardly a humourous thing to say in y opinion but each to their own!

It was mocking the hysteria.... Oh whatever...when you have to explain.:rolleyes:

SpaceTime

You'd be amazed at the narrow-minded attitudes some people hold.

I think this is going to be a Yes, but if it's a No ... it'd be one hell of a disappointment.

This is a nerve racking few hours for a lot of people.

ByfocalPhoto

Michael OBrien wrote: »

Its an incredibly Pro Yes message.

Incredible is the word - I though for a minute it was a cunning double bluff by the no camp.
I don't think I would have recommended that approach.
Still, the die is cast.

Loafing Oaf

Any chance of a Brit-style 10 p.m. exit-poll announcement, kill all the suspense?

chenwc

If we don't defend human's moral virtual bottom line, there will be a brother and sister marriage referendum next year. Why not? True love, and they naturally have baby.

Happyman42

chenwc wrote: »

If we don't defend human's moral virtual bottom line, there will be a brother and sister marriage referendum next year. Why not? True love, and they naturally have baby.

What is your bottom line?

traprunner

chenwc wrote: »

If we don't defend human's moral virtual bottom line, there will be a brother and sister marriage referendum next year. Why not? True love, and they naturally have baby.

You sound very familiar




What is this double bluff video people are talking about?

traprunner

Happyman42 wrote: »

What is your bottom line?

Polygamy has to be mentioned going by a recently closed account

Jelle1880

What time will the results be known approximately ?

PopePalpatine

Some time between 4pm and 6pm, apparently RTE are going to release an exit poll from Milward Brown tomorrow morning.

Black Menorca

This is going to be 65+ yes. the early Tallies will reflect this by mid morning. Then roll on the party in the Castle yard.

Mark Tapley

chenwc wrote: »

If we don't defend human's moral virtual bottom line, there will be a brother and sister marriage referendum next year. Why not? True love, and they naturally have baby.

I will be glad when the nutjob sleeper cell get back in their boxes.

SpaceTime

Mark Tapley wrote: »

I will be glad when the nutjob sleeper cell get back in their boxes.

Ah, that explains it! They've been cryogenically preserved since the 1950s?!

traprunner

SpaceTime wrote: »

Ah, that explains it! They've been cryogenically preserved since the 1950s?!

Some from the Spanish Inquisition times.

FixdePitchmark

Black Menorca wrote: »

This is going to be 65+ yes. the early Tallies will reflect this by mid morning. Then roll on the party in the Castle yard.

I'd say the party will have many middle "love" yes voters twisting in the reality of the constitutional mess. :eek::eek::eek::D:D:p

Hotblack Desiato

Black Menorca wrote: »

This is going to be 65+ yes. the early Tallies will reflect this by mid morning. Then roll on the party in the Castle yard.

Does your smiley indicate a change of tune on your behalf?


What's disappointing about this is that something between 25-35% of voters have chosen to be utter pr*cks and deny rights to their fellow citizens just because they can.