Marriage may be contracted in accordance with law by two persons without distinction

traprunner

Black Menorca wrote: »

Alphared?

Are you afraid to answer my question about Yes winning being gods will?

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traprunner wrote: »

Are you afraid to answer my question about Yes winning being gods will?

I'm not Catholic but will answer you on this one.
From my reading of the bible I see that there are times God says ,you don't want to keep me in your knowledge, so if you want it so much, you can have it.
Its not my will you having it and there are consequences you having your way but go ahead.

Loafing Oaf

traprunner wrote: »

Alphared... Black Menorca or whatever you are going by on your current log in.

I was thinking Silvio but he doesn't seem to have that nasty edge...

Black Menorca

traprunner wrote: »

Are you afraid to answer my question about Yes winning being gods will?

Alphared?

Black Menorca

For the record, I have never runaway from answering questions I feel competent to comment on. But trap has made a statement about myself being a sock account. Either trap backs it up or retracts it. then I will happily answer as best I can.

United Chester Men

Black Menorca wrote: »

For the record, I have never runaway from answering questions I feel competent to comment on. But trap has made a statement about myself being a sock account. Either trap backs it up or retracts it. then I will happily answer as best I can.

I am sure it was just a bona fide error by Trap. Just like when for a split second , after you claimed you were a political activist, I raised my eyebrows and thought you were merely just a Boards.ie "debater". Of course I have since seen the error of my ways.



So, what now, what do you fear will be the reprecussions of this Vote Passing. For such a rigurous campaign by the No side, what damage do you see for the future that is far greater than equality in marriage which was the aim of the referendum proposition in the first place.

there is a question.

I refer you to my response to a NO advocate yesterday when I asked hem the same question.

His answer was ......." my fear is for the child being picked on in school for having two mams or two dads, many young children do not know the concept of being gay and they will not understand why that one child in a class does not have a mother and a father like everyone else, this could have big effects on the child making him/ her feel inferior to all the other children because they do not have a mother and father like everyone else"

To which my response was........................

"Seriously, this is what your argument is based on!!!! The fact that other kids will pick on children in the playground ...........

Note: Children will always pick on eachother for different reasons and one of the worst one was for a teenager the last 2/3 decades growing up gay when being gay was seen as abnormal, inferior, wierd, etc. Children were alienated because of it, many psychologically damaged, depression and of course WORSE. So to give gay people equal status you don't seem to think tolerance/acceptance and normalisation of same sex relationships/hmosexuality won't occur ? You don't think that because of such equality measures children will be educated into a society where having either a same sex parent family or an opposite sex parent family is NORMAL.

Kids aren't bullies, kids just carry the message society spreads. Except kids are less subtle than adults in spreading this message. kids are influenced by society and if society says something is wrong/abnormal/inferior in comparison to their beliefs/lifestyle or their parents/peers beliefs/lifestyle they will catch on to this and use it.

Same sex couples are not the only other family arrangement that is different to what you think kids perceive as normal.

What about.............

a child rared by a single parent.......... Do you fear for them also........
a child rared by a foster family......... do you fear for them also.......
a child rared by two families when their parents split and have joint custody....... do you fear for them also.
Even years ago a child with parents from different races were seen as different but society has normalised and Ireland is one of the least racist countries worldwide.

As I said the worst kind of bullying registers with you when you are a teenager/adolescent . If society can't spread the message that same sex couples are the same , then kids will latch on to this."


I just want to know what damage to children will occur now that this is over.

Black Menorca

I have always come from the aspect of extending marriage leaving the door open to future children coming into the world, without the right to know their biological identity, because of a right to marriage superceding the child's right. The John Waters view, basically.

I am not alone in this either.

Now the referendum has been passed, I can only hope the Government legislates properly in the field of human assisted pro-creation in all its forms.

I also expect to be invited to a few more weddings than before. Let the good times roll.

Ave Sodalis

Black Menorca wrote: »

I have always come from the aspect of extending marriage leaving the door open to future children coming into the world, without the right to know their biological identity, because of a right to marriage superceding the child's right. The John Waters view, basically.

I am not alone in this either.

Now the referendum has been passed, I can only hope the Government legislates properly in the field of human assisted pro-creation in all its forms.

I also expect to be invited to a few more weddings than before. Let the good times roll.

What child's right? Children don't have a right to a biological mother and father. Never have, never will. It's completely impossible to cater for this right so it isn't a right.

Black Menorca

sup_dude wrote: »

What child's right? Children don't have a right to a biological mother and father. Never have, never will. It's completely impossible to cater for this right so it isn't a right.

Legislation should be written to enshrine the right of all children to know their biological background.

Ave Sodalis

Black Menorca wrote: »

Legislation should be written to enshrine the right of all children to know their biological background.

This isn't anything to do with the referendum.

traprunner

United Chester Men wrote: »

I am sure it was just a bona fide error by Trap. Just like when for a split second , after you claimed you were a political activist, I raised my eyebrows and thought you were merely just a Boards.ie "debater". Of course I have since seen the error of my ways.

Yes I seem to have raised my eyebrows too and now have seen the error in my ways.

So all the masses, novenas etc. seem to have been ignored. So gods will appears to be that LGBT are to be accepted by society. He didn't smite them down or anything. He didn't fix the vote.

On a side note I was actually at mass today. It was my grandmothers anniversary mass and I was there to support my mother. The priest giving the sermon was actually really good and progressive and welcoming of the referendum result. My aunt who is a nun was too. It was very refreshing to hear it from two people that have dedicated their life to their religion.

United Chester Men

Black Menorca wrote: »

I have always come from the aspect of extending marriage leaving the door open to future children coming into the world, without the right to know their biological identity, because of a right to marriage superceding the child's right. The John Waters view, basically.

I am not alone in this either.

Now the referendum has been passed, I can only hope the Government legislates properly in the field of human assisted pro-creation in all its forms.

I also expect to be invited to a few more weddings than before. Let the good times roll.

Eh, and what about children adopted into hetrosexual families???????????

This has absolutely nothing to do with same sex marriage??

United Chester Men

Oh and John Waters views were ridiculous and actually homophobic IN MY OPINION. He made the example of custody being granted to a parent after a marital/relationship breakdown andd then that parent with custody entering into a same sex relationship and eventually getting married giving the new partner more of a familial legal tie than the biological parent who has no custody.

he didn't adress the fact that this happens already in hetrosexual situations and was merely struggling for a view. That man has been found out on so many occasions for being an underhand subtle bigot. A very bitter man.

Black Menorca

sup_dude wrote: »

This isn't anything to do with the referendum.

You said a child has no right to know her biological identity. I fundamentally disagree with you.

Black Menorca

traprunner wrote: »

Yes I seem to have raised my eyebrows too and now have seen the error in my ways.

So all the masses, novenas etc. seem to have been ignored. So gods will appears to be that LGBT are to be accepted by society. He didn't smite them down or anything. He didn't fix the vote.

On a side note I was actually at mass today. It was my grandmothers anniversary mass and I was there to support my mother. The priest giving the sermon was actually really good and progressive and welcoming of the referendum result. My aunt who is a nun was too. It was very refreshing to hear it from two people that have dedicated their life to their religion.

Delighted to hear your positive experience as Mass today. We are a very accepting, tolerant and compassionate lot, us Catholics.

Black Menorca

United Chester Men wrote: »

Eh, and what about children adopted into hetrosexual families???????????

This has absolutely nothing to do with same sex marriage??

The same rights should be extended to all adopted children.

traprunner

Black Menorca wrote: »

Delighted to hear your positive experience as Mass today. We are a very accepting, tolerant and compassionate lot, us Catholics.

Some Catholics do but not all and that is often fed down from their bosses. Preaching tolerance is a must after the country goes to referendum and votes for it. The Catholic Church weren't too tolerant for the most part before. Can this leopard change its spots? I'm not so sure. I think one way to do it is to get rid of the old brigade and replace them with those who are independent thinkers but that is unlikely to happen. Outspoken members of religious orders tend to get silenced and cast aside like Fr Brian D'arcy.

So was it gods will?

Black Menorca

traprunner wrote: »

Some Catholics do but not all and that is often fed down from their bosses. Preaching tolerance is a must after the country goes to referendum and votes for it. The Catholic Church weren't too tolerant for the most part before. Can this leopard change its spots? I'm not so sure. I think one way to do it is to get rid of the old brigade and replace them with those who are independent thinkers but that is unlikely to happen. Outspoken members of religious orders tend to get silenced and cast aside like Fr Brian D'arcy.

So was it gods will?

If Brian is such an independent thinker, why did he accept the instruction in the first place? Just a question I never got an answer to in the past.



Clearly the passing of the Referendum is all part of the big guy's plan. Goes without saying.

traprunner

Black Menorca wrote: »

If Brian is such an independent thinker, why did he accept the instruction in the first place? Just a question I never got an answer to in the past.

I thought he did reply. Although I could be misremembering.

United Chester Men

Black Menorca wrote: »

The same rights should be extended to all adopted children.

Then why are you linking this belief of yours specifically to gay marriage?????/ Please explain?

Black Menorca

traprunner wrote: »

I thought he did reply. Although I could be misremembering.

AFAIK the instruction from Rome came in for Brian to keep schtum and he accepted it.

michael999999

Black Menorca wrote: »

The same rights should be extended to all adopted children.

What about the children that were taken from there familys and sold to family's in America by the nuns and the catholic church?

Where are there right to know there parents?

Black Menorca

United Chester Men wrote: »

Then why are you linking this belief of yours specifically to gay marriage?????/ Please explain?

As I've said elsewhere, I'm not re-jigging the referendum again. I went into this in detail last week. I'm not going back to it. I have to take a break from it and concentrate on the new challenges.

The fact is marriage has been extended to gay couples and now it is the responsibility of out legislators to ensure childrens' rights are enshrined in future Bills

United Chester Men

traprunner wrote: »

Some Catholics do but not all and that is often fed down from their bosses. Preaching tolerance is a must after the country goes to referendum and votes for it. The Catholic Church weren't too tolerant for the most part before. Can this leopard change its spots? I'm not so sure. I think one way to do it is to get rid of the old brigade and replace them with those who are independent thinkers but that is unlikely to happen. Outspoken members of religious orders tend to get silenced and cast aside like Fr Brian D'arcy.

So was it gods will?

exactly, the No side continuously have spouted nonsense about the fact that the YES advocates were liars and manipulated voters with a liberal minset into voting Yes..................

Yet the vast majority of these No voters are willing to sit in a big building built from centuries of riches on a Sunday whilst a man in a frock preaches about a magic city in the sky.

I have faith, I adhere to a lot of the moral messages that Catholicism conveys, most of which are, logic and human nature and Christianity lays claim to them. But there are extreme views such as their views on homosexuality etc that I vastly disagree with.

Black Menorca

United Chester Men wrote: »

exactly, the No side continuously have spouted nonsense about the fact that the YES advocates were liars and manipulated voters with a liberal minset into voting Yes..................

Yet the vast majority of these No voters are willing to sit in a big building built from centuries of riches on a Sunday whilst a man in a frock preaches about a magic city in the sky.

I have faith, I adhere to a lot of the moral messages that Catholicism conveys, most of which are, logic and human nature and Christianity lays claim to them. But there are extreme views such as their views on homosexuality etc that I vastly disagree with.

Huh?

A tad inconsistant?

United Chester Men

Black Menorca wrote: »

As I've said elsewhere, I'm not re-jigging the referendum again. I went into this in detail last week. I'm not going back to it. I have to take a break from it and concentrate on the new challenges.

The fact is marriage has been extended to gay couples and now it is the responsibility of out legislators to ensure childrens' rights are enshrined in future Bills

I asked you a question, you gave what you told me was your reasons and I pulled you up on it as to me it made no logical sense! I am glad we cleared that up! If you are going to concentrate on new causes and continue your "political activist" ventures and take a break from the same sex referendum chat, perhaps you should hit the unfollow button!

But once again, the answer you gave me made NO logical sense to the same sex debate!!

United Chester Men

Black Menorca wrote: »

Huh?

A tad inconsistant?

Why? faith isn't about the story of the bible. You can devise your own faith from what you believe, not from the teachings/preachings/lecturings of what is effectively a cult. If you are solely aligned to your faith because you were born into it , you are very closed mind. Maybe think about the logic of it all.

Black Menorca

United Chester Men wrote: »

I asked you a question, you gave what you told me was your reasons and I pulled you up on it as to me it made no logical sense! I am glad we cleared that up! If you are going to concentrate on new causes and continue your "political activist" ventures and take a break from the same sex referendum chat, perhaps you should hit the unfollow button!

But once again, the answer you gave me made NO logical sense to the same sex debate!!

Are your barring me from certain threads?

Get a grip.

United Chester Men

michael999999 wrote: »

What about the children that were taken from there familys and sold to family's in America by the nuns and the catholic church?

Where are there right to know there parents?

But were they sold to gay parents, Michael. I think this is the point he/she is trying to make!

Black Menorca

United Chester Men wrote: »

Why? faith isn't about the story of the bible. You can devise your own faith from what you believe, not from the teachings/preachings/lecturings of what is effectively a cult. If you are solely aligned to your faith because you were born into it , you are very closed mind. Maybe think about the logic of it all.

Well, this thread is not about your or my faith base. We'll let that lie.

I just found it a tad funny to see you deride the thought of a 'magic city', yet in the next sentence mention your faith and appreciation of many Catholic values.

So be it.

Ave Sodalis

Black Menorca wrote: »

You said a child has no right to know her biological identity. I fundamentally disagree with you.

I said children don't have the right to a biological mother and father.

This is still absolutely nothing to do with the referendum.

United Chester Men

Black Menorca wrote: »

Are your barring me from certain threads?

Get a grip.

no????????????? Another case of "we are being bullied" by No side!!

You said you are done with chatting about the subject and needed a break, I suggested you won't get a break by continuously debating, or trying to, the subject!

victim playing again.....................

Black Menorca

michael999999 wrote: »

What about the children that were taken from there familys and sold to family's in America by the nuns and the catholic church?

Where are there right to know there parents?

Clearly if the Church made a profit on the transaction, the child's right is rendered null and void. I am that shallow. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Obviously the right to know their origins should extend to all children.

michael999999

United Chester Men wrote: »

But were they sold to gay parents, Michael. I think this is the point he/she is trying to make!

Well if I was on my death bed, and I was given a choice of who would look after my child after my death. Either a gay couple or two priests, it would be a gay couple EVERY time!

What the catholic church want or need, doesn't come into the equasion anymore!

Black Menorca

michael999999 wrote: »

Well if I was on my death bed, and I was given a choice of who would look after my child after my death. Either a gay couple or two priests, it would be a gay couple EVERY time!

I've never heard of such a choice being available myself. Have you?

United Chester Men

Black Menorca wrote: »

Well, this thread is not about your or my faith base. We'll let that lie.

I just found it a tad funny to see you deride the thought of a 'magic city', yet in the next sentence mention your faith and appreciation of many Catholic values.

So be it.

Catholic values like trust, truth, love, honesty, empathy, endeavour, kindness are found in almost all religious teachings. I appreciate that the Church has helped guide these messages but I also believe i our biological development and dispute the slim chances that we developed from a couple developed from the dust on the ground.

I am not challenging your faith, just stating a lot of hypocritical aspects to Catholic teachings.

United Chester Men

But seriously Black Menorca,.................................... what has a childs right to know their biological parents got to do with same sex marriage?? I don't think you have an answer!! All you are saying is noise! Just like Ronan Mullen.

Black Menorca

United Chester Men wrote: »

But seriously Black Menorca,.................................... what has a childs right to know their biological parents got to do with same sex marriage?? I don't think you have an answer!! All you are saying is noise! Just like Ronan Mullen.

I went into great detail last week.

Childrens' rights to knowing their father and mother supercedes the right to marriage in my view. I lost the arguement.

I'm done with it now. The dye is cast.

I congratulate the Yes side, enjoyed watching the genuine celebrations last night and hope our legislators don't let children down in the coming legislation on surrogacy and human assisted reproduction.

jobbridge4life

Black Menorca wrote: »

I went into great detail last week.

Childrens' rights to knowing their father and mother supercedes the right to marriage in my view. I lost the arguement.

I'm done with it now. The dye is cast.

I congratulate the Yes side, enjoyed watching the genuine celebrations last night and hope our legislators don't let children down in the coming legislation on surrogacy and human assisted reproduction.

What you want is arbitrary discrimination. You lost yesterday. You will lose tomorrow and forever. Enjoy the dustbin of history.

United Chester Men

Black Menorca wrote: »

I went into great detail last week.

Childrens' rights to knowing their father and mother supercedes the right to marriage in my view. I lost the arguement.

I'm done with it now. The dye is cast.

I congratulate the Yes side, enjoyed watching the genuine celebrations last night and hope our legislators don't let children down in the coming legislation on surrogacy and human assisted reproduction.

So are you fighting against hetrosexual marriage?? Or just same-sex marriage? Once again, if so why you are using same sex marriage as a reason to fight against all types of marriage is what confuses me................

No marital rights were extended, merely marital rights that existed already were extended, rightfully, to those who were previously segregated from having them.

Anyway............

Dimithy

Black Menorca wrote: »

I'm not re-running the campaign. Not tonight, not ever.

Marriage has been granted to same sex couples. Job done, now I move on.

Of course you do, because the result doesn't affect you in any way.
Yes or no, you would just move on to with your life.
I'm happy that the country has so clearly, and publicly, rejected the views of people like you.

michael999999

Dimithy wrote: »

Of course you do, because the result doesn't affect you in any way.
Yes or no, you would just move on to with your life.
I'm happy that the country has so clearly, and publicly, rejected the views of people like you.

It was a proud day for the country!

Finally moving out of the dark ages and the shadow of the catholic church!

Black Menorca

jobbridge4life wrote: »

What you want is arbitrary discrimination. You lost yesterday. You will lose tomorrow and forever. Enjoy the dustbin of history.

Can I get a bin with a view?

Black Menorca

Dimithy wrote: »

Of course you do, because the result doesn't affect you in any way.
Yes or no, you would just move on to with your life.
I'm happy that the country has so clearly, and publicly, rejected the views of people like you.

People like Me?

Seriously, I'm not that important.

jobbridge4life

Black Menorca wrote: »

Can I get a bin with a view?

How sad it is that even at this late stage you can't work out that the bin is entirely of your own choosing.

Black Menorca

jobbridge4life wrote: »

How sad it is that even at this late stage you can't work out that the bin is entirely of your own choosing.

Don't shed a tear for me, mate.

I'm loving life and long may a political challenge be on my horizon.

MintyMagnum

Black Menorca wrote: »

Clearly if the Church made a profit on the transaction, the child's right is rendered null and void. I am that shallow. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Obviously the right to know their origins should extend to all children.

Sadly it is not, & no Ronan Mullens or David Quinns or Breda O Briens or John Waters campaign for it only Averil Power.

United Chester Men

Black Menorca wrote: »

Being a political activist means there's always the next conflict is always around the corner. New alliances are made and battle commences until a result is reached.

Black Menorca wrote: »

I've been involved in many campaigns. Really enjoyed it too.

Black Menorca wrote: »

As I've said elsewhere, I'm not re-jigging the referendum again. I went into this in detail last week. I'm not going back to it. I have to take a break from it and concentrate on the new challenges.

Black Menorca wrote: »

.

I'm loving life and long may a political challenge be on my horizon.

Your political activism waffle cracks me up every time!!

Black Menorca

MintyMagnum wrote: »

Sadly it is not, & no Ronan Mullens or David Quinns or Breda O Briens or John Waters campaign for it only Averil Power.

And I support Averil all the way in this. She's been a leading light in this and I admire her greatly in how she's advocated for it.

Black Menorca

United Chester Men wrote: »

Your political activism waffle cracks me up every time!!

There you go again with the unnecessary snide comments. There's really no need for it and you're not impressing anyone either.