REAL MADRID VS. ATLÉTICO MADRID

The Golden Miller

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

So on that logic, Ronaldinho couldn't dribble?

Of course he can, they aren't mutually exclusive. He could do both. In Ronaldos individual case, he does one cause he can't do the other

Shanotheslayer

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Of course he can, they aren't mutually exclusive. He could do both. In Ronaldos individual case, he does one cause he can't do the other

You've been provided with clips of him doing both, what more evidence do you need?

The Golden Miller

MightyMandarin wrote: »

The tricks are part of his 'act', sure he was doing step overs like mad in his early days at United. And most of the time he collects the ball in an advanced position with the defence already stretched because his teammates are making runs, therefore he doesn't need to dribble past 4 or 5 players because if he dribbles past 1, he has a free shot on goal which normally results in a goal.

But wasn't he called at United, before the goals came, a one trick pony for the very reasons I mentioned. Step overs, down to the corner flag without going by the man, and cross it in?

The Golden Miller

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

You've been provided with clips of him doing both, what more evidence do you need?

Yes, and as I said, in 615 games, and by nothing more than the law of averages, of course he will beat men every now and then. To do it to the same level as the other players mentioned, with the same regularity, then ye, he is pretty poor

Shanotheslayer

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Yes, and as I said, in 615 games, and by nothing more than the law of averages, of course he will beat men every now and then. To do it to the same level as the other players mentioned, with the same regularity, then ye, he is pretty poor

Going by your Logic McGeady must be the greatest dribbler in the world.

Edit: Also and as a winger, and from playing playing, it's a wingers job to run down the line and cross a play in, so if Ronaldo beats his man and whips a ball a good ball in that's technically his job in regards to the ' running to the corner' argument'

MightyMandarin

The Golden Miller wrote: »

But wasn't he called at United, before the goals came, a one trick pony for the very reasons I mentioned. Step overs, down to the corner flag without going by the man, and cross it in?

And you think he got to the corner flag without having someone in his way?

The Golden Miller

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Going by your Logic McGeady must be the greatest dribbler in the world.

No, but in the stand alone department of dribbling, he's actually very very good

The Golden Miller

MightyMandarin wrote: »

And you think he got to the corner flag without having someone in his way?

Well naturally, a defender will try and push you wide without stepping in to tackle

Shanotheslayer

The Golden Miller wrote: »

No, but in the stand alone department of dribbling, he's actually very very good

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Well naturally, a defender will try and push you wide without stepping in to tackle

Mcgready good at dribbling? Well that's great, he can beat a man what's the point of that with a brutal end product?

Your argument is flawed on so many levels

MightyMandarin

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Well naturally, a defender will try and push you wide without stepping in to tackle

and a defender will also join with others and stop you from moving towards the corner, which is strategically an important position, especially for a winger who is known for his ability to cross well.

The Golden Miller

MightyMandarin wrote: »

and a defender will also join with others and stop you from moving towards the corner, which is strategically an important position, especially for a winger who is known for his ability to cross well.

Well of course but that scenario doesn't always arise, and when it did, he regularly lost the ball but would obviously go by every now and then too. Every week on the premiership highlights on RTE, they used to be pointing out his consistency at losing the ball and not tracking back, week after week. I just don't rate him as a top dribbler. He's ok at it, but not close to the level that we are regularly led to believe by the Ronaldo fanboys on here

The Golden Miller

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Mcgready good at dribbling? Well that's great, he can beat a man what's the point of that with a brutal end product?

Your argument is flawed on so many levels

But it's only about his dribbling. That was the original point. I never denied his ability to provide the end product. He's world class at that

Shanotheslayer

The Golden Miller wrote: »

But it's only about his dribbling. That was the original point. I never denied his ability to provide the end product. He's world class at that

But do you not understand this...

What is the point in being a good dribble if you can't give an end product ? Ronaldo is a good dribbler and has one of the best end products in the world as proven.

Would I rather a better dribbler with a worse end product? Or a just as good dribbler with a world class product? Pretty easy answer.

The Golden Miller

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

But do you not understand this...

What is the point in being a good dribble if you can't beat your man? Ronaldo is a good dribbler and has one of the best end products in the world as proven.

Would I rather a better dribbler with a worse end product? Or a just as good dribbler with a world class product? Pretty easy answer.

I'm not disputing that. But if that was the case, why do none of these Ronaldo fanboys have Gerd Muller in the reckoning for the greatest of all time too?

As for the dribbling, there's many better dribblers than McGeady who do have better end product. Messi for example. Messi is worlds ahead of Ronaldo in just about every department, and they still get compared as if they are the same level. It's ridiculous. And why, solely based on goals. Which in turn, then brings me back to Muller. You getting it now?

Shanotheslayer

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I'm not disputing that. But if that was the case, why do none of these Ronaldo fanboys have Gerd Muller in the reckoning for the greatest of all time too?

As for the dribbling, there's many better dribblers than McGeady who do have better end product. Messi for example. Messi is worlds ahead of Ronaldo in just about every department, and they still get compared. It's ridiculous

Was only a matter of time before before Messi got brought into this :rolleyes:

The Golden Miller

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Was only a matter of time before before Messi got brought into this :rolleyes:

Well isn't he the benchmark that Ronaldo is supposed to be the equal of?

Shanotheslayer

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Well isn't he the benchmark that Ronaldo is supposed to be the equal of?

He's broken some Records Messing hasn'. In fairness.

But anyway no need to derail the thread.

Hoping for a Munich V Juve Semi. That way we get 2 El Classicos and a quality final assuming Munich would beat them.

The Golden Miller

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

He's broken some Records Messing hasn'. In fairness.

But anyway no need to derail the thread.

Hoping for a Munich V Juve Semi. That way we get 2 El Classicos and a quality final assuming Munich would beat them.

The El Classicos are really disappointing of late. Dunno if I could stomach another 180 minutes of diving and playacting ha. I' gonna put money on Juve to win it outright. Don't think Munich are at the very top level since Pep took over

Shanotheslayer

The Golden Miller wrote: »

The El Classicos are really disappointing of late. Dunno if I could stomach another 180 minutes of diving and playacting ha. I' gonna put money on Juve to win it outright. Don't think Munich are at the very top level since Pep took over

Yeh unfortunately they are getting worse. Perhaps Madrid V Munich would be better or Barca v Munich. But I'd rather a no El Classico final. I'd say the diving/play acting would be horrific.

The Golden Miller

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Yeh unfortunately they are getting worse. Perhaps Madrid V Munich would be better or Barca v Munich. But I'd rather a no El Classico final. I'd say the diving/play acting would be horrific.

Don't Madrid have a awful record against Juve? You ever see any South American football? Had a few bets on recently and was watching some of the matches and it's really getting out of hand down there. If a teams is 0-1 away from home, it's just dive after dive after dive

Shanotheslayer

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Don't Madrid have a awful record against Juve? You ever see any South American football? Had a few bets on recently and was watching some of the matches and it's really getting out of hand down there. If a teams is 0-1 away from home, it's just dive after dive after dive

Rarely watch it myself. In terms of random league I stick to the Chinese/Japanese and AFC. You should pop into the football betting thread.Usually good tips in there:)

The Golden Miller

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Rarely watch it myself. In terms of random league I stick to the Chinese/Japanese and AFC. You should pop into the football betting thread.Usually good tips in there:)

Haha, jaysus the Chinese and Japanese leagues? I've bet on the Japanese league before. Very inconsistent league. Anyone beats anyone really. Ye I sometimes have a browse, but rarely post there. Ye some decent tips alright. Porto to beat Bayern lat week was a good one

Nalz

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Well isn't he the benchmark that Ronaldo is supposed to be the equal of?

But better in "In just about every department "

"departments" like physique, pace, power, heading, freekicks long range, finishing, tackling, goal scoring, etc...

Ronaldo doesn't need to rely on close control dribbling a lot you could argue, and to say he is "poor" at it reeks of smelly poopoo bias.

"souly based on goals" You fückin kidding me. "fanboys " nice!

A point that made sense on such a low low scale defended to death imo

In fairness to the Golden Miller, I too used to argue that Ronaldo was overrated.

I gave it up about 7 or 8 years ago, but glad to see someone clinging on faithfully.

Backstreet Moyes

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Well isn't he the benchmark that Ronaldo is supposed to be the equal of?

Ronaldo has been voted the best player in the world the past two years so right now he is the benchmark Messi should be trying to reach.

The Golden Miller

Nuts102 wrote: »

Ronaldo has been voted the best player in the world the past two years so right now he is the benchmark Messi should be trying to reach.

Good one

Kirby

DVDM93 wrote: »

... this counts for nothing though, showed that he's a true scumbag celebrating that assist, LOL.

https://www.facebook.com/TFOOTBALLBible/videos/460168997476639/

I'm not sure you linked what you think you linked.

The Golden Miller

Trilla wrote: »

But better in "In just about every department "

"departments" like physique, pace, power, heading, freekicks long range, finishing, tackling, goal scoring, etc...

Ronaldo doesn't need to rely on close control dribbling a lot you could argue, and to say he is "poor" at it reeks of smelly poopoo bias.

"souly based on goals" You fückin kidding me. "fanboys " nice!

A point that made sense on such a low low scale defended to death imo

You drunk?

Ye physique, pace and power? Lets get Usain Bolt in. None of it is much good if your terrible at running with the ball. Just hollow words with no substance that Ronaldo fan boys continually roll out as if they mean something. Useless at freekicks too. Scoring a blinder with every 50 attempts doesn't make one a great free taker. Law of averages would suggest one has to go in sometime if you smash them enough. Finishing and goal scoring? Last time I checked Messi was more prolific. Heading? I think everyone is better at heading than Messi. He can't really do much about his size. Tackling? Really scrapping the barrel now. Considering Ronaldo is notorious for not tracking back and tackling, and Messi has far quicker feet to nip balls off people, Messi trumps him here too

Kirby

The Golden Miller wrote: »

You drunk?

Ye physique, pace and power? Lets get Usain Bolt in. None of it is much good if your terrible at running with the ball. Just hollow words with no substance that Ronaldo fan boys continually roll out as if they mean something. Useless at freekicks too. Scoring a blinder with every 50 attempts doesn't make one a great free taker. Law of averages would suggest one has to go in sometime if you smash them enough. Finishing and goal scoring? Last time I checked Messi was more prolific. Heading? I think everyone is better at heading than Messi. He can't really do much about his size. Tackling? Really scrapping the barrel now. Considering Ronaldo is notorious for not tracking back and tackling, and Messi has far quicker feet to nip balls off people, Messi trumps him here too

Ronaldo isn't terrible running with the ball though so I cant see what point you are trying to make there.

The fact that you are talking about his rubbish free kicks just highlights how good he is at everything else. No player is perfect but Ronaldo is very close to the complete forward. He has everything. The weaknesses in his game that he had earlier in his career, he has addressed. Despite his ego, he's a team player when it comes down to it. Watch his pass to Hernandez for the goal last night.

The fact is, Ronaldo is a phenomenal player. Being a bit of a prat in how he acts doesn't change that and persisting with the notion that he's somehow useless is just ridiculous.

The Golden Miller

Kirby wrote: »

Ronaldo isn't terrible running with the ball though so I cant see what point you are trying to make there.

The fact that you are talking about his rubbish free kicks just highlights how good he is at everything else. No player is perfect but Ronaldo is very close to the complete forward. He has everything. The weaknesses in his game that he had earlier in his career, he has addressed. Despite his ego, he's a team player when it comes down to it. Watch his pass to Hernandez for the goal last night.

The fact is, Ronaldo is a phenomenal player. Being a bit of a prat in how he acts doesn't change that and persisting with the notion that he's somehow useless is just ridiculous.

He is compared to the top dribblers.

Being a complete forward doesn't make you one of the greatest players of all time no matter how many goals you score. If that was the benchmark, players like Muller would be seen as the greatest of all time and not Maradona. My point with Ronaldo fans is there is no consistency in this regard.

Backstreet Moyes

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Good one

It's a fact of course its good.

The Golden Miller

Nuts102 wrote: »

It's a fact of course its good.

He could win the next 10 in a row. He will still never be considered at good as Messi by the general masses, only little fanboys.

Shanotheslayer

The Golden Miller wrote: »

He could win the next 10 in a row. He will still never be considered at good as Messi by the general masses, only little fanboys.

I think if anyone wins a Ball on D'or at Age 40 means they are the best ever...

Backstreet Moyes

The Golden Miller wrote: »

He could win the next 10 in a row. He will still never be considered at good as Messi by the general masses, only little fanboys.

Ronaldo won the last two because he was clearly the best player in the world not because of fanboys. What exactly does a fanboy mean does it mean if you think Ronaldo is world class your a fanboy. So if people think Messi is world class are they fanboys. I am confused on exactly what a fanboy if you can clear that up?

Will I Amnt

Nuts102 wrote: »

Ronaldo won the last two because he was clearly the best player in the world not because of fanboys. What exactly does a fanboy mean does it mean if you think Ronaldo is world class your a fanboy. So if people think Messi is world class are they fanboys. I am confused on exactly what a fanboy if you can clear that up?

Fanboys are obviously the captains and coaches of international teams that voted for him in the Ballon d'Or the last 2 years.

The Golden Miller

The Golden Miller wrote: »

He could win the next 10 in a row. He will still never be considered at good as Messi by the general masses, only little fanboys.

Ha ha ha!

That's a very very lame effort! If you feel like resorting to "little fanboys" is the only way of clinching the argument, you've already lost!

Liam O

The Golden Miller wrote: »

He is compared to the top dribblers.

Being a complete forward doesn't make you one of the greatest players of all time no matter how many goals you score. If that was the benchmark, players like Muller would be seen as the greatest of all time and not Maradona. My point with Ronaldo fans is there is no consistency in this regard.

If Muller was playing in an era like Maradona when appearances at WCs and Euros were the main times you seen full matches of international players then he might very well be regarded as one of the best ever tbh...

DVDM93

Kirby wrote: »

I'm not sure you linked what you think you linked.

There we go like I said, certain people will ignore things like this incident (linked below) before the game last night and jump on him when he does unthinkable things like celebrate an assist, the scumbag. LOL.

I can see where people are coming from with this term 'fan boys' but here's an equal amount of the very opposite. People who will will go to extreme lengths to find negatives in whatever he does. These will in turn like Messi.

I'll never understand the Messi v Ronaldo following. It seems a lot of people like one and in turn dislike the other. Such bs. I myself love both of them and am happy to be alive in their time.

https://www.facebook.com/bewarmers/videos/704052753038502/