Sale agreed a long time ago - waiting for contracts from vendors solicitor

Miamiheat

If more people "walked" when confronted to ridiculous delays, the whole system would have to improve.
I find it unreal to read such stories, and it seems to be "the norm".

bidiots

Miamiheat wrote: »

If more people "walked" when confronted to ridiculous delays, the whole system would have to improve.
I find it unreal to read such stories, and it seems to be "the norm".

This is the exact tirade I had with my own solicitor last week.
Booking deposit paid early February.
Not a word until last week when I had enough and started barking at auctioneer and solicitors on both sides. I may have went overboard but the threats and highlights of incompetence, got me my contracts on Friday last.

Now, why it took me losing my cool and patience to hurry this along, just reinforces my lack of faith in all involved in this process.
Now, I've just found out that half the required documentation is missing.
To cap it off, first page of the contact I have to sign is a clause that if I delay purchase by 4 weeks, I pay a penalty!!! ffs

Now, how is it possible to invoke the same clause against the vendor? I'd get the house free at this stage!

So, next week, a lot of solicitors and auctioneers are going to have sore ears... only sore ears if they are lucky.

Miamiheat

I just lost 2K in a house that i cannot buy due to structural issues, after 6-7 weeks of being sale agreed...
monies went to survey, valuation and whatever part of the conveyancing my solicitor went through. I cant get that money back from anyone...

bidiots

bidiots wrote: »

To cap it off, first page of the contact I have to sign is a clause that if I delay purchase by 4 weeks, I pay a penalty!!! ffs

The contract only becomes valid when the vendor signs it so if they want to delay they will likely do it at this stage, instead of after signature....
These are things your solicitor should have been taking care of.

I did hear of a case where a vendor delayed and delayed after the contract was signed, and then thinking that property prices had risen tried to ignore the contract and not close the sale.
The purchaser dug his heels in and insisted on completion. It took ten years to work through the courts but he got the house. The purchase price went in legal fees instead of to the vendor who ended up with nothing.

bidiots

Miamiheat wrote: »

I just lost 2K in a house that i cannot buy due to structural issues, after 6-7 weeks of being sale agreed...
monies went to survey, valuation and whatever part of the conveyancing my solicitor went through. I cant get that money back from anyone...

The only way you can justify it is- that 2k saved you tens of thousands...

bitter sweet!

Rackstar

23 weeks on now. Still sale agreed. Contracts were returned 6 weeks ago with requisitions of title and not a thing since from the vendor.

This is a soul destroying process. Hopefully this is the only time I ever have to go through the this.

MarkAnthony

Rackstar wrote: »

23 weeks on now. Still sale agreed. Contracts were returned 6 weeks ago with requisitions of title and not a thing since from the vendor.

This is a soul destroying process. Hopefully this is the only time I ever have to go through the this.

Took me months with all sorts of issues. In now though. Best of luck.

Rackstar

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Took me months with all sorts of issues. In now though. Best of luck.

Giving up chasing people on it now. Has got me nowhere.

EA wasn't happy when I told him I'd have to pull out if the vendor doesn't get a move on.

Rackstar

Rackstar wrote: »

EA wasn't happy when I told him I'd have to pull out if the vendor doesn't get a move on.

After 23 weeks! What planet is he living on???

Seriously though, if the vendor was putting the same pressure on his solicitor to close the sale as you are, you wouldnt be in this situation. At a minimum you would have received a plausible explanation for the delay, their profuse apologies and a complete account of what they are doing to fix things along with a timeline. The logical conclusion is that the vendor isn't actually interested in closing the sale.
Charades like these can be to go through the motions of selling to keep a bank happy, or to use the sale process as a price discovery mechanism in other negotiations eg couple separations.

MarkAnthony

Rackstar wrote: »

Giving up chasing people on it now. Has got me nowhere.

EA wasn't happy when I told him I'd have to pull out if the vendor doesn't get a move on.

I almost door stepped the Vendor at a couple of points. Due to a last minute hiccup we did end up in direct contact and over a cup of tea in their (my) kitchen we found that had I, things would have progressed at a much more rapid pace.

Turns out the vendor wanted (once they became aware of it) to be upfront about a defect in title to part of the garden. I was quite willing to take possessory title. EA was telling the vendor not to be upfront which meant that I never got the option, which I ended up having to take anyway due to messing about with the land registry which could have taken months (if not years) to resolve.

Anyways, in now. In all honesty 23 weeks isn't that long. Sometimes the process can take the better part of a year; as ridiculous as that is.

GalwayBmw

Rackstar wrote: »

Giving up chasing people on it now. Has got me nowhere.

EA wasn't happy when I told him I'd have to pull out if the vendor doesn't get a move on.

Which is good at least you have someone on yr side or someone helping to put the pressure on the vendor, my EA happily accepted me quitting deposit was refunded next day.

As you probably know nothing's guaranteed so worse case it'll be 23 lost weeks. Give them two weeks if nothing happens, nothing likely will.

inchiuvatu

I have had a very similar experience, Vendor's solicitor took 2 months to send contract after sale agreed, then it took another 3 months to get all the paperwork tidied and queries answered.. we are now trying to close in the next week so our loan offer doesn't expire and delay us even further.


best of luck with your own.

GalwayBmw

GalwayBmw wrote: »

my EA happily accepted me quitting, deposit was refunded next day.

Maybe EA recognised that you were doing the right thing. They get messed around by these clients too..

Rackstar

So I'm wondering who will I hear from first, EA or solicitor?

And most importantly what will hear?

inchiuvatu

I would be on your solicitor each day looking for updates, even a quick mail to request an update to keep the pressure on.


it's looks like we will be getting keys today under a caretakers agreement (of sorts) no money is changing hands but the vendor solicitor are signing a contract to agree they will do their job, and our solicitor signs agreeing to pay the money (which is already drawn down)once all the work is done.


our EA didn't have much power except to give out about the vendors solicitor.

ben.schlomo

We went sale agreed first week of June, zero movement since apart from some talk of vendors bank person being on holidays, delay getting title deeds etc. Ringing, texting and emailing the EA regularly for updates, clearly annoying them as we're not getting a lot back from them.

Rackstar

Still no further along. Their solicitor was on hols for a week and a half and then my solicitor for a week and a half.

6 months tomorrow.

ben.schlomo

As if by magic we got an email today that his solicitor has the deeds now and will be sending contracts as soon as possible, heres hoping.

Lucy B

Things should get moving once deeds are there. We were exact same as you. 16 weeks today. Our deeds popped up few weeks ago and things have moved smoothly since then, apart from everyone going on holidays except us!! Waiting for closing date now.
Annoy your solicitor if you feel things aren't moving as fast as you'd like.

Good luck with it all

mriksman

Wow. Jumped online to find out if we are alone in this nightmare, and first post I read has striking resemblance. We are from Australia, and this process has been bizarre. I have never had to wait so long, and have such poor correspondence from all parties involved. Is this common in Ireland??

We were told not to contact the Vendor's solicitor, but after 8 weeks of waiting, I tried and left my name and number. I then got a call from my OWN solicitor saying that I shouldn't do that and it was a breach of ethics.

I also have the EA emailing me, asking me if my solicitor has received the answers from the vendors solicitor to the queries he has. When I ask everyone what is happening, I get told they will call back, but no one ever does. I am constantly chasing everyone up.

It has been now been 2 months.

Is there a 'name and shame' system available?! I wouldn't be surprised if we are all dealing with the same people!

athtrasna

mriksman wrote: »

Wow. Jumped online to find out if we are alone in this nightmare, and first post I read has striking resemblance. We are from Australia, and this process has been bizarre. I have never had to wait so long, and have such poor correspondence from all parties involved. Is this common in Ireland??

We were told not to contact the Vendor's solicitor, but after 8 weeks of waiting, I tried and left my name and number. I then got a call from my OWN solicitor saying that I shouldn't do that and it was a breach of ethics.

I also have the EA emailing me, asking me if my solicitor has received the answers from the vendors solicitor to the queries he has. When I ask everyone what is happening, I get told they will call back, but no one ever does. I am constantly chasing everyone up.

It has been now been 2 months.

Is there a 'name and shame' system available?! I wouldn't be surprised if we are all dealing with the same people!

Naming and shaming is not permitted on this forum

Mod

Dublin21

We are now waiting almost 6 months since we went sale agreed in March, our approval runs out the end of this month..

We were led to believe everything was straight forward on the vendors side and we would be in the house by end of June.

Issues the whole way unfortunately mainly due to slow solicitor on the vendors side. In our 5th month we were advised they had finally sent a merger off for the deeds that could take a few months to amend.. Our solicitor brought this issue up with them in April.

we are now hounding the EA, revenue and prai to try get something sorted ASAP which should have been done months ago by the vendors solicitor.

Absolutely ludacris that they get away with it without any penalties!

yellow hen

Has anyone ever tried to give a deadline to the other party? In our case the purchasers of our house want so much documentation before they'll even release the contracts. We're just totally fed up now and feel like putting date on it and saying if you don't close the sale by x date, we walk.

Uno my Uno.

mriksman wrote: »

Wow. Jumped online to find out if we are alone in this nightmare, and first post I read has striking resemblance. We are from Australia, and this process has been bizarre. I have never had to wait so long, and have such poor correspondence from all parties involved. Is this common in Ireland??

We were told not to contact the Vendor's solicitor, but after 8 weeks of waiting, I tried and left my name and number. I then got a call from my OWN solicitor saying that I shouldn't do that and it was a breach of ethics.

I also have the EA emailing me, asking me if my solicitor has received the answers from the vendors solicitor to the queries he has. When I ask everyone what is happening, I get told they will call back, but no one ever does. I am constantly chasing everyone up.

It has been now been 2 months.

Is there a 'name and shame' system available?! I wouldn't be surprised if we are all dealing with the same people!

You almost certainly are not dealing with the same people, the problems and attitudes encountered are the same all over. There have been several threads here and in the Legal Discussion thread regarding the conveyancing process in ireland and how it could be changed or improved.

However I have noticed that while buyers and sellers will always say that they want things done as quickly as possible they do not follow up on that with their actions. the careful and meticulous buyer is also a seller who expects his buyer to accept whatever title he offers. If a party want a quick transaction they should be prepared to do what that requires.

The seller who insists that a sale conclude in four weeks will then refuse to pay for an engineers report that will resolve a planning permission and spend two weeks insisting that the buyer accept the title provided (which will simply never happen and nor should it).

Equally the buyer who is "Ready to go" will turn out not to be ready at all and is still waiting on Mortgage approval or stuck in a chain and another four weeks will drift by as they try to organise documentation and so on.

Essentially the way the Buyers and Sellers use the system as it is currently is backwards, the deal is done first and then all the work regarding title and funds is done afterwards. The obvious result that complications can occur and delays happen as a result. When sellers have their title in place before going to market and the buyers have funds (or concrete funding) in place before the deal is done, the whole thing can be completed in a week or two.

Its not easy and the Banks are a major delay when they are involved with mortgages and the current system can be a mess but it can also be a smooth and easy transaction, sometimes it is the solicitors, sometimes it is the clients.

bidiots

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

You almost certainly are not dealing with the same people, the problems and attitudes encountered are the same all over. There have been several threads here and in the Legal Discussion thread regarding the conveyancing process in ireland and how it could be changed or improved.

However I have noticed that while buyers and sellers will always say that they want things done as quickly as possible they do not follow up on that with their actions. the careful and meticulous buyer is also a seller who expects his buyer to accept whatever title he offers. If a party want a quick transaction they should be prepared to do what that requires.

The seller who insists that a sale conclude in four weeks will then refuse to pay for an engineers report that will resolve a planning permission and spend two weeks insisting that the buyer accept the title provided (which will simply never happen and nor should it).

Equally the buyer who is "Ready to go" will turn out not to be ready at all and is still waiting on Mortgage approval or stuck in a chain and another four weeks will drift by as they try to organise documentation and so on.

Essentially the way the Buyers and Sellers use the system as it is currently is backwards, the deal is done first and then all the work regarding title and funds is done afterwards. The obvious result that complications can occur and delays happen as a result. When sellers have their title in place before going to market and the buyers have funds (or concrete funding) in place before the deal is done, the whole thing can be completed in a week or two.

Its not easy and the Banks are a major delay when they are involved with mortgages and the current system can be a mess but it can also be a smooth and easy transaction, sometimes it is the solicitors, sometimes it is the clients.

This is a thread where it's buyers been hung out to dry, so no, I do not agree that it's buyers fault just as much as sellers.
I'm still waiting since February, have spent thousands, missed other houses that I would have liked, mortgage approval expired, houses have increased in price in the area which means I'm totally fugged if deal falls through, a complete shambles of a system that hurts the buyer more than anyone else in the transaction.

seamus

mriksman wrote: »

When I ask everyone what is happening, I get told they will call back, but no one ever does. I am constantly chasing everyone up.

Remember that you're paying your solicitor not just for their qualifications, but also their experience and their time. If things aren't moving quickly enough or you don't know what stage you're at, it's your solicitor you need to be hounding.
You are in effect paying them to act on your behalf, so there's no good reason why you would be doing the things that they should be doing - like contacting the vendor's solicitors.

It's also worth finding out (usually through trial-and-error) the best way of getting your solicitor to respond. Some will always answer the phone, but never respond to email. Some are rarely available on the phone but always answer emails. Some won't answer emails or pick up their phone, but will call you back ten minutes after you leave a voicemail.
Finding this out can save a lot of headaches in terms of sitting around waiting for responses.

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

Essentially the way the Buyers and Sellers use the system as it is currently is backwards, the deal is done first and then all the work regarding title and funds is done afterwards. The obvious result that complications can occur and delays happen as a result. When sellers have their title in place before going to market and the buyers have funds (or concrete funding) in place before the deal is done, the whole thing can be completed in a week or two.

I wonder if this has arisen out of the tradition of solicitors taking their fees out of the proceeds of the sale? That is, neither the solicitor nor the vendor have any interest in incurring various fees until they're sure a sale is going to take place. So everyone waits until it's going ahead before even starting to do any documentation.

Uno my Uno.

bidiots wrote: »

This is a thread where it's buyers been hung out to dry, so no, I do not agree that it's buyers fault just as much as sellers.
I'm still waiting since February, have spent thousands, missed other houses that I would have liked, mortgage approval expired, houses have increased in price in the area which means I'm totally fugged if deal falls through, a complete shambles of a system that hurts the buyer more than anyone else in the transaction.

I'm not suggesting (and I don't think my post was at all unclear on that) it was the buyers fault in this or any other specific case. However it is my experience that buyers can cause delays.

seamus wrote: »

I wonder if this has arisen out of the tradition of solicitors taking their fees out of the proceeds of the sale? That is, neither the solicitor nor the vendor have any interest in incurring various fees until they're sure a sale is going to take place. So everyone waits until it's going ahead before even starting to do any documentation.

Well its not just a tradition its business sense to take fees from the proceeds of a sale but it is entirely my point that sellers refuse to incur fees before the deal is done. Its the wrong way around in my opinion, and pointless because in the normal course of things once a house is for sale it will be sold eventually and the fees will be incurred eventually.

If you check auction sites eg Allsops, you will see that all houses have legal packs. Obviously this is essential in an auction when the sale becomes binding that day, but it is something that private treaty sellers could do as well. A house with an available legal pack would be differentiated from others and this would also be an indication that the vendor wants to sell. For a vendor intending to sell this would incur no additional costs as the legal work would have to be done in any event.

Jake Stiles

Jeez the thread title is even way out of date.

Hopefully rackstar seems some light soon, terribly long process for anyone to go through.

ben.schlomo

ben.schlomo wrote: »

As if by magic we got an email today that his solicitor has the deeds now and will be sending contracts as soon as possible, heres hoping.

We finally got our keys on Tuesday evening, the vendors solicitor was slow on every count, we were constantly chasing our guy to chase her which in fairness he was doing. The whole process has taken us 25 weeks from sale agreed to getting keys, long and very frustrating are two ways of describing it.