Ulster Rugby vs Leinster Rugby 24/04/15 19:35 Ravenhill BBC2NI

bilston

jacothelad wrote: »

We keep hearing how wonderful Fitz is. Gilroy has scored 13 tries this season. This is the same number as Fitzgerald has scored in 5 seasons in all competitions.

I like Fitzgerald, he has been wrecked by injuries and the fact he is still playing to such a high standard says a lot about the man and his abilities. I think he can be a tad overrated by some here but then I am no doubt guilty of overhyping some Ulster players. He vindicated his selection for Scotland and he is a very talented guy. It is a well worn argument that try scoring ratio isn't the be all and end all for a winger, especially in a Joe Schmidt team...but at some point his try scoring record has to be compared to others and it doesn't look too pretty.

Maybe he really should be playing centre, I don't know, but I say all that as a fan of his, I always have been, but he does need to score more tries.

total former

jacothelad wrote: »

We keep hearing how wonderful Fitz is. Gilroy has scored 13 tries this season. This is the same number as Fitzgerald has scored in 5 seasons in all competitions.

This is the Simon Zebo argument in a northern accent. Didn't do Zeebs much good.

jacothelad

bilston wrote: »

I like Fitzgerald, he has been wrecked by injuries and the fact he is still playing to such a high standard says a lot about the man and his abilities. I think he can be a tad overrated by some here but then I am no doubt guilty of overhyping some Ulster players. He vindicated his selection for Scotland and he is a very talented guy. It is a well worn argument that try scoring ratio isn't the be all and end all for a winger, especially in a Joe Schmidt team...but at some point his try scoring record has to be compared to others and it doesn't look too pretty.

Maybe he really should be playing centre, I don't know, but I say all that as a fan of his, I always have been, but he does need to score more tries.

He is a talented player. He looks more and more like a 12 or 13. I think his first cap was as a 12 but with Darcy and GOD at 12 and 13 he was never getting many starts there. His dreadfully unlucky injuries are behind him and his elusive footwork is wasted on the wing. Now is the time for him to get games in the centre. Leinster need him there not faffing about on the wing.

.ak

jacothelad wrote: »

We keep hearing how wonderful Fitz is. Gilroy has scored 13 tries this season. This is the same number as Fitzgerald has scored in 5 seasons in all competitions.

Tbh I think your a tad fixated on tries scored. Obviously fitz is very valuable to whatever team he plays on without scoring tries.

Clegg

Fitz is wasted on the wing at Leinster because they get feck all decent ball out wide. He looked so good against Scotland because of the way Ireland played.

Personally, I think Fitz needs to be in the centre for Leinster because the he we need him to have the ball as much as possible.

bilston

jacothelad wrote: »

He is a talented player. He looks more and more like a 12 or 13. I think his first cap was as a 12 but with Darcy and GOD at 12 and 13 he was never getting many starts there. His dreadfully unlucky injuries are behind him and his elusive footwork is wasted on the wing. Now is the time for him to get games in the centre. Leinster need him there not faffing about on the wing.

Leinster fans will have their own ideas but a midfield of Sexton, Fitzgerald and Te'o would be very exciting.

Edit - I think Leinster should be blooding Ringrose in short order, actually I would even give him a game in the last two games this season.

total former

total former wrote: »

This is the Simon Zebo argument in a northern accent. Didn't do Zeebs much good.

Visser is a better analogy really. Only the top league try scorer for 4 seasons in a row at one stage. Lions aspirations clearly?

Try count is nice. It's not everything.

English Lurker

Deleted User wrote: »

Henderson's not bad at rugby is he.

If I wasn't already a convert to the Cult of the Manchild, I would have been after last night. God help the rest of us when Schmidt finally gets what he wants out of him and decides he's ready to start.


As for the rest of the match... shame about the rain. Think Leinster really need to freshen up their 9-10-12 axis and will look a lot stronger at the tail end of next season, regardless of coach, when Sexton is back in place. Think they should also be pushing Luke McGrath as a starter as much as possible - it's that or sweet-talking Marmion next time his contract expires.

molloyjh

bilston wrote: »

Leinster fans will have their own ideas but a midfield of Sexton, Fitzgerald and Te'o would be very exciting.

That's the midfield I'd like to see at Leinster next season. I don't think it'll happen though as Luke wants to play for Ireland and he'll only be doing that on the wing so on the wing he'll stay.

I think he's pretty much back to his best now though. It's just that with so many issues in Leinsters midfield and back play we're never going to see the best of our wide men. We just can't get them into the game the way we should.

And that's one of the reasons I want to see Luke at 12. There's feck all point in having a massively talented winger if you're just not getting him good ball. Move him in and use him to sort out the midfield issues. Make better use of a less talented winger as opposed to lesser use of a more talented one. And we might have real threat in the middle then to boot.

UnitedWeStand

English Lurker wrote: »

If I wasn't already a convert to the Cult of the Manchild, I would have been after last night. God help the rest of us when Schmidt finally gets what he wants out of him and decides he's ready to start.


As for the rest of the match... shame about the rain. Think Leinster really need to freshen up their 9-10-12 axis and will look a lot stronger at the tail end of next season, regardless of coach, when Sexton is back in place. Think they should also be pushing Luke McGrath as a starter as much as possible - it's that or sweet-talking Marmion next time his contract expires.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibS93sanGZc

He is a talent for sure. Can't wait to see how he progresses over the next few seasons.

gamma001

UnitedWeStand wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibS93sanGZc

He is a talent for sure. Can't wait to see how he progresses over the next few seasons.

immense

BBDBB

UnitedWeStand wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibS93sanGZc

He is a talent for sure. Can't wait to see how he progresses over the next few seasons.

ooof


Sit Down

George Hook

UnitedWeStand wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibS93sanGZc

He is a talent for sure. Can't wait to see how he progresses over the next few seasons.

That whole charge only stopped when Hendo decided to look for support.:rolleyes:

ssaye2

Did anything come of the kick on boss from Henderson after scrum 34 mins or deemed nothing

fadofado

total former wrote: »

I see this thread is picking up where it left off last night. That's a ridiculous post.

We'll see how ridiculous it is in Sept.

.ak

yosser hughes wrote: »

stick to your guns. you might as well at this stage. It don't matter anyway. MOC won't thank you for defending him all this time. He'd probably think it;s weird and move on.

Lads if you can't keep it civil don't post at all. Some of us want to discuss rugby, not be brought down to a Us vs Them debate.

shaungil

was at game with 40 9 year olds on their end of season tour so wasn't properly focussed. First time in Ravenhill great purpose stadium and terraces are great with brilliant atmosphere. Liked the brass band.
rugbt wise delighted to see Jackson back to it was super and looked threatening all the time. Gilroy threatening and McCloskey did great damage. Payne is such a clever player too.
Leinster nice start but then back no normal service. At the end when attacking we were so predictable and were going backwards no guile no runners from depth or dummy runners. safe passing not out in front. Ulster could have defended it all night. We lost crucial lineouts and 2 yellow cards. think we need change in second row scrum half and 12/13 axis and more pressure on guys in backline too.
We did not look like a team playing for its season. Very dissapointing but well played ulster.

MJohnston

Watching that O'Brien card incident again, I just don't really understand what he was at - I get that frustrations and adrenaline can be high during a game, but it looked very malicious against someone who had very recently been an Irish teammate. I feel silly to wonder this, but anyone think there's anything in that beyond match time headlessness?

awec

Nah it was just stupidity in the heat of the moment, but it was fortune that saw him avoid a red card. Kirchner as well as Henderson twisting himself round saved him.

KingBrian2

LorMal wrote: »

We are (as Thornley never stops repeating) the 'bulk suppliers' to the Ireland squad.
Ireland are being very successful, Leinster are not.
That's my point.

Ulster have Bowe, Best, Jackson, Gilroy & Payne and they also all play for Ireland. I sincerely believe Leinster underestimate their opponents. Ulster is a top quality team and deserved to win the game heading to the top of the league. We need to do a lot better to take on decent sides like Ulster and Munster.

mfceiling

MJohnston wrote: »

Watching that O'Brien card incident again, I just don't really understand what he was at - I get that frustrations and adrenaline can be high during a game, but it looked very malicious against someone who had very recently been an Irish teammate. I feel silly to wonder this, but anyone think there's anything in that beyond match time headlessness?

Agree with awec...SOB isn't a dirty player by any stretch of the imagination. I think it was just frustration that took hold of him for a second.

Probably was a yellow card alright...one poster here claimed it was the crowd that made Lacey take a look at it but I'm sure it was his assistant that brought it to his attention.

KingBrian2

mfceiling wrote: »

Agree with awec...SOB isn't a dirty player by any stretch of the imagination. I think it was just frustration that took hold of him for a second.

Probably was a yellow card alright...one poster here claimed it was the crowd that made Lacey take a look at it but I'm sure it was his assistant that brought it to his attention.

I felt that two Leinster players were behind the tackle so the ref should have booked both or ignored it as nobody was seriously injured.

bilston

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I felt that two Leinster players were behind the tackle so the ref should have booked both or ignored it as nobody was seriously injured.

It seemed to me that Kirchner stopped Henderson from hitting the ground directly from O'Brien's intervention so rather than carding him both SOB and Henderson should be thanking him.

gamma001

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I felt that two Leinster players were behind the tackle so the ref should have booked both or ignored it as nobody was seriously injured.

Kirchner tried to bring him safely to the ground, SOB didn't

fadofado

gamma001 wrote: »

Kirchner tried to bring him safely to the ground, SOB didn't

Spot on.

shuffol

Gilroy's got electric footwork but again he's the type of player who's strengths will become less noticeable at test level and who's weaknesses (of which he has a few) will become heightened. Fionn Carr had a great try scoring record, it's not everything.

I'd be of the opinion of getting Henderson into an Irish shirt asap, just stick him in somewhere, feck earning your stripes off the bench and waiting until the guy in front gets injured, he's that good and brings something that we're sorely lacking since Fez. We know that eventually he will get a chance due to injury and that once he gets in that will be it, why wait for the injury.

gamma001

Who do you put henderson in for? Everyone in the positions he plays deserves to be ahead of him. POM is the most likely candidate and he is the captain of munster.

Not a bad problem to have all the same though.

gamma001

gamma001 wrote: »

Who do you put henderson in for? Everyone in the positions he plays deserves to be ahead of him. POM is the most likely candidate and he is the captain of munster.

Not a bad problem to have all the same though.

I think Henderson will nail his place in the Ireland team probably after the RWC if/when POC retires. You could argue for him ahead of Toner and while he has huge advantages over Toner in some areas, if he comes in the set piece suffers, there's absolutely no way around that. Which is why I don't think he will.

I wouldn't imagine POM will make way and I'm sure even suggesting it is going to get a reaction on here.

SaveOurLyric

gamma001 wrote: »

Who do you put henderson in for? POM is the most likely candidate and he is the captain of munster.

I dont think being captain of Munster should be a reason to drop him.

bilston

Henderson's battle with O'Mahony will be really interesting in two weeks time.

jacothelad

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

I dont think being captain of Munster should be a reason to drop him.

Nor is it a reason to keep him.

Pudsy33

POM wont be dropped for the WC, and if he is I would think Henry would be the one coming into the back row. I think Henderson has a better chance of taking Toner's spot.

total former

TBH I think Henderson is still best used for Ireland on the bench. O'Mahony is still well worth his spot at 6 and I don't see the POC/Toner partnership being broken up at this point. Henderson was used relatively sparingly during the 6N so he has a bit to go.

Post-RWC is his best chance of taking POC's vacated jersey.

irishbucsfan

jacothelad wrote: »

Nor is it a reason to keep him.

The fact itself isn't, but of course the ability which put him in that position at such a young age will be.

gamma001

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

I dont think being captain of Munster should be a reason to drop him.

Never meant he should be dropped for that reason. I was saying that the most likely candidate is the muster captain which says a lot for our strength and depth. But he is never going to be dropped this side of the world cup given the leadership he brings to the squad alone.

total former wrote: »

Post-RWC is his best chance of taking POC's vacated jersey.

seems to be the most likely scenario

Tox56

total former wrote: »

TBH I think Henderson is still best used for Ireland on the bench. O'Mahony is still well worth his spot at 6 and I don't see the POC/Toner partnership being broken up at this point. Henderson was used relatively sparingly during the 6N so he has a bit to go.

Post-RWC is his best chance of taking POC's vacated jersey.

I think Henderson has nailed himself to the bench for the WC and I agree it is the best place for him at the moment. If his future is at lock he has over a decade still in the game, there is no rush

Someone else said he brings what we've missed since Ferris but I think we have that with SOB. POM and Toner have earned a starting place

bilston

total former wrote: »

Henderson was used relatively sparingly during the 6N so he has a bit to go.

To be fair going into the 6Ns Henderson had feck all squared game time under his belt this season, the fact he was involved at all given he had limited international experience speaks volumes of how highly Joe must rate him.

total former

bilston wrote: »

To be fair going into the 6Ns Henderson had feck all squared game time under his belt this season, the fact he was involved at all given he had limited international experience speaks volumes of how highly Joe must rate him.

I do think Joe rates him highly but not so highly as to drop POM or Toner for him.

He was also the only fit lock at the start of the 6N with McCarthy, Tuohy, Ryan and Foley all injured, so his lack of game time was never going to be an issue.

ulster_Beef

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Ulster have Bowe, Best, Jackson, Gilroy & Payne and they also all play for Ireland. I sincerely believe Leinster underestimate their opponents.

And the rest.... Henderson, Trimble & Henry

jacothelad

ulster_Beef wrote: »

And the rest.... Henderson, Trimble & Henry

...and Diack and Cave.

ulster_Beef

jacothelad wrote: »

...and Diack and Cave.

and Tim Boys...

.ak

... And Paul Marshall...

awec

.ak wrote: »

... And Paul Marshall...

He's fackun tarruble.

jacothelad

.ak wrote: »

... And Paul Marshall...

I was having a good day until now.

George Hook

Tox56 wrote: »

Someone else said he brings what we've missed since Ferris but I think we have that with SOB.

But we used to have both SOB and Ferris playing at the same time - SOB can't be two people. (well he pretty much is, as was Ferris, so he can't be 4 people..)