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How to stop under bidder??

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2

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    #32
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Easyliving wrote: »
    I think a 10k jump is stupid as we are past the asking and the new rules are starting to bite. This is the first house we've been on with just us and one other bidder and it's in a more desirable area than other houses we've bid on in the past.

    Asking price has nothing to do with purchase price, it is just the "sticker" the EA puts on the property, the actual price is what the highest bidder is willing to pay for it. Many vendors (including myself) will put a property on the market for less than we know it will sell for just to get buyers interested in the properties. Forget the rules, you have another bidder involved in this so the new rules do not apply here. Bidding €10k more is not stupid provided you can afford to do it, expecting any other result than you getting at the moment by going up in €500s is stupid, an extra €500 on a €250k house is nothing, each time it happens both parties think "ah sure it's only €500" whereas €5k focuses the mind.


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    #33
    James 007
    Registered Users Posts: 962 ✭✭✭James 007


    Easyliving wrote: »
    I'm going to wrap it up from my side Monday. I'll talk to the EA get the vibe and put an ultimatum that they except my offer now or I'm walking.

    No, I would throw an extra €10 grand on the house, let the other bidder out bid you and then walk away. Even if they walk away, you just put some thought into it, and then walk away. Just tell the estate agent that another property has taken your interest.


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    #34
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    James 007 wrote: »
    No, I would throw an extra €10 grand on the house, let the other bidder out bid you and then walk away. Even if they walk away, you just put some thought into it, and then walk away. Just tell the estate agent that another property has taken your interest.

    And then the EA goes back to the underbidder at their last offer and if OP likes another house in that area with the same EA office, the op will not be take seriously. Great advice.


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    #35
    Mezcita
    Registered Users Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭Mezcita


    James 007 wrote: »
    Other bidder: + €100
    One week passes
    You: + €1
    Other bidder: + €100
    One week passes
    You: + €1
    Other bidder: + €100
    One week passes
    You: + €1
    Other bidder: + €100
    One week passes
    You: + €1
    ..............:)

    That's actually a good idea though.

    You have to presume that the people who own the house actually want to sell it. Therefore if they just see incremental bids over the course of a few weeks they might ask for best and final offers to get the place sold.


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    #36
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,536 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Easyliving wrote: »
    I am also thinking about using the same tactic as the other bidder and doing the 100 quid jump and extending our response time if it feels more and more like a fake bidder.

    A couple of hundred isn't a fake bidder, the commission at that stage is neglible. It's a prudent buyer, I went up in hundreds buying my house. Tricked the estate agent into thinking I was at the top of my budget and was getting the extra bits of friends and family


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    #37
    Emsloe
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭Emsloe


    OP what position is the seller in, as in have they somewhere to go? When I was selling it would have driven me stir crazy to have two bidders constantly coming in with counter offers with only a few hundred euro between them and then dragging it out 7+ days at a time. Unless you're buying from a deceased's estate or someone who has time and money to burn the whole thing sounds a little suspicious to me.


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    #38
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Emsloe wrote: »
    OP what position is the seller in, as in have they somewhere to go? When I was selling it would have driven me stir crazy to have two bidders constantly coming in with counter offers with only a few hundred euro between them and then dragging it out 7+ days at a time. Unless you're buying from a deceased's estate or someone who has time and money to burn the whole thing sounds a little suspicious to me.

    Why does it sound suspicious to you? This sounds typical of how most bidding processes go, experienced bidders would have realised that if the bids are going up in hundreds, a bid of thousands would draw it to a hasty conclusion.


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    #39
    James 007
    Registered Users Posts: 962 ✭✭✭James 007


    davo10 wrote: »
    And then the EA goes back to the underbidder at their last offer and if OP likes another house in that area with the same EA office, the op will not be take seriously. Great advice.

    I don't believe so. The OP could easily say that they were out bid on that property too. However the only thing that it is doing, it is actually showing your hand plus another €10 grand to the Estate Agent. Agents will always take up a higher offer I would think. An updated mortgage approval letter would be a serious enough card to show the Agent prior to the bidding process.


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    #40
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    There is numerous things that the ea could do to bring this to a quick close, the fact that he hasn't suggests the seller is in no hurry to move


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    #41
    Geniass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Geniass


    OP,

    This is being dragged out. It sounds like you are near your limit (borrowing more that you had hopped)

    It seems to me the other bidder is just keeping the bidding process ticking over. They expect to get it, but want to keep it as low as possible.

    Keep looking at other houses in the mean time.


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    #42
    Sala
    Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭Sala


    If you are very near your limit decide on the max you can and want to pay, offer it as your final bid, if they counterbid you can't afford it anyway, and if you're already near your limit you won't be spending much more than you would if you got it at the current bid


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    #43
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    James 007 wrote: »
    I don't believe so. The OP could easily say that they were out bid on that property too. However the only thing that it is doing, it is actually showing your hand plus another €10 grand to the Estate Agent. Agents will always take up a higher offer I would think. An updated mortgage approval letter would be a serious enough card to show the Agent prior to the bidding process.

    Ah, of course it shows your hand, it also forces the other bidder to show his/hers. The €10k doesn't go to the estate agent. An updated letter certainly helps but money talks and at the moment every time op makes a small increased bid, the other bidder just adds another small bit on, and on, and on......


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    #44
    Emsloe
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭Emsloe


    davo10 wrote: »
    Why does it sound suspicious to you? This sounds typical of how most bidding processes go, experienced bidders would have realised that if the bids are going up in hundreds, a bid of thousands would draw it to a hasty conclusion.

    Suspicious in so much as if the seller had somewhere to go, and the bids are being dragged out as the OP says for a week or so by the other side each time, and only for a few hundred euro at a time, they (they seller) would grow tired of it and go to final bids. The fact that they're happy enough to let it drag on for what sounds like weeks and really be only a couple of grand further along sounds odd, unless the OP is buying from the parties I mentioned. That's why it sounds suspicious to me.


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    #45
    Easyliving
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Easyliving


    I'm not sure of the sellers position, I did ask the other week if they would be happy to close as we have passed the asking and the EA said yes. I did also think our approval under the new rules was a strong card but has seemed to have no impact on things. I think we will jump it by a a few grand again and then leave it at that. I just want to see where the other bidder is at after our last offer. Good advice though everyone thanks, a lot to consider.


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    #46
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    TBH you first mistake was coming back faster than the other bidder. If it takes them 7 days, take 10 yourself.


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    #47
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    How about trying to find the other bidder, and offering them 2k to basically f. off? They have 2k more for their deposit, and you get the house. Win win.


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    #48
    Easyliving
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Easyliving


    pablo128 wrote: »
    How about trying to find the other bidder, and offering them 2k to basically f. off? They have 2k more for their deposit, and you get the house. Win win.

    Not sure how I'd go about this?

    And coming back in ten days it would even be more painfully slow


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    #49
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Easyliving wrote: »
    Not sure how I'd go about this?

    And coming back in ten days it would even be more painfully slow

    Pain is a relative concept. If I had a bidder that kept coming back I'd be very tempted to see how far I could push it. In all honesty I think you're bidding against yourself. If you want a fast process go in with 50K more.


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    #50
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    davo10 wrote: »
    Ah, of course it shows your hand, it also forces the other bidder to show his/hers. The €10k doesn't go to the estate agent. An updated letter certainly helps but money talks and at the moment every time op makes a small increased bid, the other bidder just adds another small bit on, and on, and on......

    You are basically suggesting as a smart buyer he should max out. That's paying more than he wants.


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    #51
    mad m
    Registered Users Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭mad m


    pablo128 wrote: »
    How about trying to find the other bidder, and offering them 2k to basically f. off? They have 2k more for their deposit, and you get the house. Win win.

    What a completely stupid idea......

    OP do as others suggested, take your time. Counter offer by a little as possible. The EA knows he is in a win win situation. They love a bidding war.


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    #52
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    Pain is a relative concept. If I had a bidder that kept coming back I'd be very tempted to see how far I could push it. In all honesty I think you're bidding against yourself. If you want a fast process go in with 50K more.

    Paying more is not smart. He should just bail.

    Personally the EA seems to be taking the piss. An offer on the table for a week unanswered would generally be accepted. Is the EA even telling the seller?


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    #53
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    Paying more is not smart. He should just bail.

    Personally the EA seems to be taking the piss. An offer on the table for a week unanswered would generally be accepted. Is the EA even telling the seller?

    It depends how you're approaching it. Personally I walked in and said, here's my max, 48 hours to decide, I think I was 10% over asking and 20K over the previous bid. We could have started a back and forth that took me over 10% over or I could have ended up under asking or cover it less, who knows.

    The one thing I am certain of though is the keen bidder is always going to get fleeced if they let themselves get drawn in without a limit. Prices are falling I'd also walk tbh.


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    #54
    The Zec
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭The Zec


    I am probably being naive asking this but is there not some regulations in place that would cost an estate agent his license if they are creating ghost bids. Surely it's a type of fraud, no?


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    #55
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    The Zec wrote: »
    I am probably being naive asking this but is there not some regulations in place that would cost an estate agent his license if they are creating ghost bids. Surely it's a type of fraud, no?

    There is but it's poorly enforced. It's also dead easy to encourage someone to stay in when really they are just holding up the process.


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    #56
    Flood
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 560 ✭✭✭Flood


    Just give the asking price.


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    #57
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    The Zec wrote: »
    I am probably being naive asking this but is there not some regulations in place that would cost an estate agent his license if they are creating ghost bids. Surely it's a type of fraud, no?
    All he has to do is get a mate to be the magic bidder.
    Flood wrote: »
    Just give the asking price.
    They seemed to have already passed it?
    Easyliving wrote: »
    I did ask the other week if they would be happy to close as we have passed the asking and the EA said yes.


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    #58
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    You are basically suggesting as a smart buyer he should max out. That's paying more than he wants.

    Has there ever been a property buyer who hasn't had to pay more than they wanted? By default all buyers want to to pay as little as possible. Of course the reality of property purchase is far removed from your simple observation. The OP has reached the limit without landing the winning bid, because early in the process the bids were going up in too small an increments. Once op realised that the other bidder was bidding just above their bid, he should have gone in with a €10k rise to test the other bidder, he miggt even have got the property at a lower price than he is at now if he had showed more intent earlier in the process.


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    #59
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    Paying more is not smart. He should just bail.

    Personally the EA seems to be taking the piss. An offer on the table for a week unanswered would generally be accepted. Is the EA even telling the seller?

    A lot of assumptions here. A week is not a long time. The other bidder may take a couple of days to consider the options and the EA may take a day to get back to the op. Bidding on a property like this is very different to an auction, particularly if the seller is not in any hurry to sell and has instructed the EA just to get the max price possible. A bid is never accepted by the seller in these circumstances until one buyer informs the EA that they are finished bidding. it always puzzles me why people assume in a situation like this, that the EA has done something wrong. The EA is the facilitator, he/she is not in a position to make any decision, their function at this stage is to keep all parties informed of how things stand. The bidding process as described by the op is perfectly normal. If I have one criticism of the EA, early in the process he should have informed both bidders that only increased bids of €2k or more would be considered.


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    #60
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    If I were at the stage OP is at, running out of bidding scope, I think I would be inclined to call the EAs bluff to see if he's p**sing around.

    When he comes back with latest counter offer, without warning you suddenly and matter-of-factly declare yourself out - Make it sound really resigned and final - something like "Ok, well thats me out then, I've already well past what I could afford. Best of luck with the sale" etc.

    If the EA is scamming you, you'll probably spook the bejaysus out of him and he'll be back on you sharpish with a bull story about how the other bidders finance fell through or some other nonsense. If that happens, you basically tell him your previous bids are no longer on the table, your new final bid is €X (back to whatever figure suits you) and its valid until Y.

    Of course, it may be the case that the other bidder is genuine, but if OP is running out of rope with what they can bid anyway then there's no much to lose.


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    #61
    amdublin
    Registered Users Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    It depends how you're approaching it. Personally I walked in and said, here's my max, 48 hours to decide, I think I was 10% over asking and 20K over the previous bid. We could have started a back and forth that took me over 10% over or I could have ended up under asking or cover it less, who knows.

    The one thing I am certain of though is the keen bidder is always going to get fleeced if they let themselves get drawn in without a limit. Prices are falling I'd also walk tbh.

    This is the way I do it too. One way or the other it is over in 48 hours and you either have the house or you are moving on to the next. This days and days of agony will cause more stress than it's worth.

    I tell them here's my offer, it's off the table in 48 hours take it or leave it. Whether paying over the asking price or not. Decide what you want to pay, put yourself in the stronger position that the EA and seller are scrambling and the pressure is on them to make the decision to take it. When there is no pressure they'll keep all bidders hanging on forever. When there is a risk of the bid being withdrawn they tend to go for it.


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