reiki

unreg999

zeffabelli wrote:

Sloth is a deadly sin....vioates the Protestant work ethic....

JonJones wrote:

everyting ther church do not lioke is from the devil. So where did the pervert priests ,and their superiors who covered for them, come from?

JonJones wrote:

Was that the catholic nun from Cork?

No not from Cork, I've actually known a couple... One from wexford and another from Dublin

unreg999

Canis Lupus wrote:

Level 2.... Sound like a computer game. How much study did level 2 take? I imagine years of training and learning...... I should ask my hematologist what level he is.

Canis Lupus wrote:

I also never mentioned anything about evil spirits. However you reiki practitioners can't seem to make your mind up about it when I read this thread. Just goes to show how wishy washy it is.

Wow you really are so defensive about this topic... It makes me wonder what about Reiki has hurt you so bad in the past to cause so much anger and need to ridicule and put down?
I decided a while ago not to contribute any more to this thread as you are obviously so closed minded about anything other than the Medical Model of treatment... That is your right however I don't know why you feel so much need to try to turn as many others off it as possible too?
This thread keeps popping up in my emails but I've just realised I can stop that!
I wish you all the best and really hope you can deal with your anger & hurt before it gets any worse and causes bigger problems

Mark Tapley

unreg999 wrote: »

Wow you really are so defensive about this topic... It makes me wonder what about Reiki has hurt you so bad in the past to cause so much anger and need to ridicule and put down?
I decided a while ago not to contribute any more to this thread as you are obviously so closed minded about anything other than the Medical Model of treatment... That is your right however I don't know why you feel so much need to try to turn as many others off it as possible too?
This thread keeps popping up in my emails but I've just realised I can stop that!
I wish you all the best and really hope you can deal with your anger & hurt before it gets any worse and causes bigger problems

Level 2 passive aggressive as well I see. People should be encouraged to seek proper medical treatment. Reiki practitioners are exploiting people when they are vulnerable.

jjpep

Mark Tapley wrote: »

Well done ! That's the biggest load of bollox I've read in a long time.

Like, like and like again!!!

JonJones

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Level 2.... Sound like a computer game. How much study did level 2 take? I imagine years of training and learning...... I should ask my hematologist what level he is.

I also never mentioned anything about evil spirits. However you reiki practitioners can't seem to make your mind up about it when I read this thread. Just goes to show how wishy washy it is.

apologies i must have confused you with someone else

JonJones

Any reiki person who can trats chronic fatigue syndrome please pm me. I know of someone who has this. I am now unfollowing this

Mark Tapley

JonJones wrote: »

Any reiki person who can trats chronic fatigue syndrome please pm me. I know of someone who has this. I am now unfollowing this

Please don't go foisting this rubbish on other people. Indulging your own credulity is one thing spreading this tripe is another.

Mark Tapley

JonJones wrote: »

Any reiki person who can trats chronic fatigue syndrome please pm me. I know of someone who has this. I am now unfollowing this

It seems you are still following. Thanks for the PM.

Here is an article that might interest you -

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/reiki.html

Mark Tapley

Another article -

http://edzardernst.com/2015/02/reiki-nonsense-on-stilts/

Mark Tapley

http://scienceblogs.com/whitecoatunderground/2009/03/11/reiki-still-stupid-after-all-t/

Mark Tapley

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reiki

Mark Tapley

JonJones if you require any further evidence that reiki is bullshìt feel free to ask.

Ave Sodalis

locum-motion wrote: »

Your entire post appears to be made up of seemingly random words whose use in this case bears no relation whatsoever to what those words actually mean. Words like 'energy', 'balance', 'flow'. Then there's the other words, that are completely meaningless. Like 'chi'.

Ah whatever about Reiki, it's not fair to dismiss chi when it's just a name for energy in the body. The same energy that makes you move and stuff. Some Buddhists and meditators can control it to a certain extent. It's just a name though.

In terms of Reiki, I don't believe it works but placebo does. I'm amused however, by the amount of people admitting to the power of placebo but ridiculing one of the mediums through which the placebo effect is achieved, hence removing the placebo effect. If people believe Reiki works, then there's a good chance they're going to have a certain degree of improvement. It's only dangerous when they think it's the only thing that works, but for the most part, it's fairly harmless and effective, though not in the way it's believed to be.

JonJones

Mark Tapley wrote: »

It seems you are still following. Thanks for the PM.

Here is an article that might interest you -

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/reiki.html

i have reported you twice. please do not address me again

Mark Tapley

JonJones wrote: »

i have reported you twice. please do not address me again

Reporting me , telling me to "shag off" by PM . I hope this is not leading to a laying on of hands.
I think your chakras might be misaligned .

Canis Lupus

unreg999 wrote: »

Wow you really are so defensive about this topic... It makes me wonder what about Reiki has hurt you so bad in the past to cause so much anger and need to ridicule and put down?
I decided a while ago not to contribute any more to this thread as you are obviously so closed minded about anything other than the Medical Model of treatment... That is your right however I don't know why you feel so much need to try to turn as many others off it as possible too?
This thread keeps popping up in my emails but I've just realised I can stop that!
I wish you all the best and really hope you can deal with your anger & hurt before it gets any worse and causes bigger problems

Methods of treatment using drugs and therapies with known cause and effect that studies show give repeatable results in properly controlled trials.

vs

Hand waving with literally nothing to show it works and as per this thread followers/'practitioners' can't even seem to agree on what's involved.

Having said that the placebo effect can be an amazing thing and as I've already stated in the thread if you believe in this sort of thing and are happy to spend money on it then go for it. It's no different to spending money on something else completely frivolous in life. The important thing obviously is to make sure someone isn't forgoing real medicine for a serious disease like cancer in favour of reiki.

Mark Tapley

sup_dude wrote: »

Ah whatever about Reiki, it's not fair to dismiss chi when it's just a name for energy in the body. The same energy that makes you move and stuff. Some Buddhists and meditators can control it to a certain extent. It's just a name though.

In terms of Reiki, I don't believe it works but placebo does. I'm amused however, by the amount of people admitting to the power of placebo but ridiculing one of the mediums through which the placebo effect is achieved, hence removing the placebo effect. If people believe Reiki works, then there's a good chance they're going to have a certain degree of improvement. It's only dangerous when they think it's the only thing that works, but for the most part, it's fairly harmless and effective, though not in the way it's believed to be.

Vitalism ,chi is just more rubbish for the credulous. So reiki a potentially dangerous expensive placebo. One which you have to buy into a load of bollox to get the placebo effect.

Ave Sodalis

Mark Tapley wrote:

Vitalism ,chi is just more rubbish for the credulous. So reiki a potentially dangerous expensive placebo. One which you have to buy into a load of bollox to get the placebo effect.

But it's really just a name for energy. Chi is energy, it just happens to specifically refer to the energy in the body. Some people make it into more but it's really just a name. It's like saying blood is just rubbish for the credulous.

And so what if people want to spend their money on it? What's it to anyone else? Unless they forego any real treatment, there's no reason for anyone else to get their knickers in a twist over what people spend their money on. Especially if it works in some way. Mindset has a huge influence on recovery.

Mark Tapley

sup_dude wrote: »

But it's really just a name for energy. Chi is energy, it just happens to specifically refer to the energy in the body. Some people make it into more but it's really just a name. It's like saying blood is just rubbish for the credulous.

And so what if people want to spend their money on it? What's it to anyone else? Unless they forego any real treatment, there's no reason for anyone else to get their knickers in a twist over what people spend their money on. Especially if it works in some way. Mindset has a huge influence on recovery.

Blood carries oxygen and nutrients to the cells whereas chi is codswallop.

People who are ill susceptible and desperate give money to charlatans. What could be wrong with that?

Ave Sodalis

Mark Tapley wrote:

Blood carries oxygen and nutrients to the cells whereas chi is codswallop.


People who are ill susceptible and desperate give money to charlatans. What could be wrong with that?

No, I don't think you're reading what I'm saying. Chi is another name for energy. Chi is energy. Energy is chi. If you were to call chi "energy" you would be correct. Chi cannot be codswallop because energy isn't codswallop. It's just another name for what you already know, but it's specific to internal.

Because most reiki healers truly believe they're healing and there isn't maliousness or purposeful crookery. Plus, placebo works. Having a positive mindset works. If that involves the use of reiki then so be it.

Mark Tapley

sup_dude wrote: »

No, I don't think you're reading what I'm saying. Chi is another name for energy. Chi is energy. Energy is chi. If you were to call chi "energy" you would be correct. Chi cannot be codswallop because energy isn't codswallop. It's just another name for what you already know, but it's specific to internal.

Because most reiki healers truly believe they're healing and there isn't maliousness or purposeful crookery. Plus, placebo works. Having a positive mindset works. If that involves the use of reiki then so be it.

Energy is energy , chi has too many associations with quackery to be a synonym.

So a whole industry built on a nonsense is ok with you. Why not take this pill it will make you feel better and dispense with all this hokum?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/8841347/Steve-Jobs-regretted-trying-to-beat-cancer-with-alternative-medicine-for-so-long.html

Harmless placebos.

Ave Sodalis

Mark Tapley wrote:

Energy is energy , chi has too many associations with quackery to be a synonym.

Only if you listen to the quackery and the quackery alone.

Mark Tapley wrote:

So a whole industry built on a nonsense is ok with you. Why not take this pill it will make you feel better and dispense with all this hokum?

Ah now Mark, are you purposely misreading my posts? Did I not state already on more than one post that it's dangerous when it's used instead of real medicine?

Mark Tapley

sup_dude wrote: »

Only if you listen to the quackery and the quackery alone.



Ah now Mark, are you purposely misreading my posts? Did I not state already on more than one post that it's dangerous when it's used instead of real medicine?

With Chi there is historical or delusional "and that way madness lies"

Yes its dangerous when used instead of real medicine.How do you know which person will think this is a valid alternative. This is an industry that regulates itself. The main aim of this regulation is to avoid lawsuits.Steve Jobs I would say was an intelligent man but was taken in by alternative therapies to his detriment. If this wavey hand nonsense and other such tripe were held up to the ridicule they deserve the world would be a better place.

"More important, in my view, is an entirely different risk: making people believe in mystic “energies” undermines rationality in a much more general sense. If this happens, the harm to society would be incalculable and extends far beyond health care." - Edzard Ernst

damon5

unreg999 you posted ...What a load of crap!! I don't even know where to start with such bs... I am a Shamanic Practitioner as well as a Reiki Master, .....In my reply to you regarding that statement straight away your language,your voice you show no humble respect for spirituality and other peoples beleifs in that respect no one that would ever be gifted to help others in life would never speak in that tounge...

Mark Tapley

damon5 wrote: »

unreg999 you posted ...What a load of crap!! I don't even know where to start with such bs... I am a Shamanic Practitioner as well as a Reiki Master, .....In my reply to you regarding that statement straight away your language,your voice you show no humble respect for spirituality and other peoples beleifs in that respect no one that would ever be gifted to help others in life would never speak in that tounge...

If that was a spoken sentence I would assume you hadn't got your teeth in. Congratulations on mastering level three gibberish.

sam34

mark, dial back the rudeness please. Attack the post not the poster.

locum-motion

sup_dude wrote: »

Ah whatever about Reiki, it's not fair to dismiss chi when it's just a name for energy in the body. The same energy that makes you move and stuff. Some Buddhists and meditators can control it to a certain extent. It's just a name though.
...

[My emphasis]


You don't need to be a Buddhist or meditator to control what makes you move! I think I'm doing a reasonable job of doing exactly that right now, given that I am consciously causing various different parts of by body (some call them 'fingers') to strike separate 1cm squares arranged in a pattern in a specific order with not very many errors!

Seriously, "what makes you move" is a complex physiological reaction involving fuel (in the form of carbohydrate) and oxygen being delivered to your muscles by your blood, and an electrical signal also being delivered to the muscles by your nervous system. The 'energy' that is involved is the chemical energy that is locked into the bonds of the molecules of carbohydrate. It is all logical, measurable, well understood and, y'know, actually exists.

'Chi' or 'Qi' or 'Ki' is a bull5hit concept that is supposed to describe the 'energy' that differentiates the living from the dead and is supposed to 'flow' immeasurably around, along and through the body, and which causes illness when its flow is disturbed, and which can (allegedly) be corrected by reiki practitioners laying on of hands. This 'energy' is absolutely NOT the same as the energy that I described above. It is merely a remnant of what histyorical peoples thought was how the body worked before science figured out (mostly) how it actually works.

Ave Sodalis

locum-motion wrote: »

[My emphasis]


You don't need to be a Buddhist or meditator to control what makes you move! I think I'm doing a reasonable job of doing exactly that right now, given that I am consciously causing various different parts of by body (some call them 'fingers') to strike separate 1cm squares arranged in a pattern in a specific order with not very many errors!

Seriously, "what makes you move" is a complex physiological reaction involving fuel (in the form of carbohydrate) and oxygen being delivered to your muscles by your blood, and an electrical signal also being delivered to the muscles by your nervous system. The 'energy' that is involved is the chemical energy that is locked into the bonds of the molecules of carbohydrate. It is all logical, measurable, well understood and, y'know, actually exists.

'Chi' or 'Qi' or 'Ki' is a bull5hit concept that is supposed to describe the 'energy' that differentiates the living from the dead and is supposed to 'flow' immeasurably around, along and through the body, and which causes illness when its flow is disturbed, and which can (allegedly) be corrected by reiki practitioners laying on of hands. This 'energy' is absolutely NOT the same as the energy that I described above. It is merely a remnant of what histyorical peoples thought was how the body worked before science figured out (mostly) how it actually works.

But you do to be able to consciously control your body temperature and regulate pain to the extent the Shaolin Monks do.

I know what energy in the body is. Chi is just another name for it from a different culture. I really don't know why that's difficult to comprehend...

I've already said Reiki doesn't work...

locum-motion

sup_dude wrote: »

But you do to be able to consciously control your body temperature and regulate pain to the extent the Shaolin Monks do...

That is an entirely different argument than the one I was refuting. You said Buddists etc could control what makes them move. When a person calls bull5hit on something you say, please try to reinforce your original argument or else admit you were wrong. Don't introduce an entirely different concept to try to make out you were right.

sup_dude wrote: »

...I know what energy in the body is...

No, you don't. Which shall be amply demonstrated by...

sup_dude wrote: »

... Chi is just another name for it from a different culture...

No, it's not. As I previously explained.

sup_dude wrote: »

... I really don't know why that's difficult to comprehend...

I comprehend it perfectly. You don't.

sup_dude wrote: »

...I've already said Reiki doesn't work...

But yet you persist in defending its bull5hit basic concept?

locum-motion

sup_dude wrote: »

But you do to be able to consciously control your body temperature and regulate pain to the extent the Shaolin Monks do...

However, since you do want to introduce this new argument, here's my reply to it:

I have no knowledge as to whether Shaolin monks can perform these feats or not, but assuming for a moment that they can;

Whatever or however they are controlling such matters, it is NOT through 'Chi', because 'Chi' does not exist.

Ave Sodalis

locum-motion wrote: »

That is an entirely different argument than the one I was refuting. You said Buddists etc could control what makes them move. When a person calls bull5hit on something you say, please try to reinforce your original argument or else admit you were wrong. Don't introduce an entirely different concept to try to make out you were right.



No, you don't. Which shall be amply demonstrated by...



No, it's not. As I previously explained.



I comprehend it perfectly. You don't.



But yet you persist in defending its bull5hit basic concept?

Then you were refuting an entirely different argument to the one I was making.

I do understand how energy in the body works. 4 years in uni, doing a biology based science degree with several physiology modules means that something as simple as how energy works in the body is fairly well understood.

No, you didn't explain. You're saying chi doesn't exist because some people claim to use it for made up practices. That is terrible logic and wouldn't hold up in any science paper. It's like saying blood doesn't exist because people used to use leeches....

I'm not defending Reiki. Please read my posts...

Ave Sodalis

locum-motion wrote: »

However, since you do want to introduce this new argument, here's my reply to it:

I have no knowledge as to whether Shaolin monks can perform these feats or not, but assuming for a moment that they can;

Whatever or however they are controlling such matters, it is NOT through 'Chi', because 'Chi' does not exist.

Go research Shaolin Monks, or the person who goes swimming in ice waters and climbs mountains without clothes on. I really don't know how else to explain it. I've already said multiple times that chi is another name for energy.

JohnBee

sup_dude wrote: »

Go research Shaolin Monks, or the person who goes swimming in ice waters and climbs mountains without clothes on. I really don't know how else to explain it. I've already said multiple times that chi is another name for energy.

You may use Chi as another name for energy, but you do not use the term energy in its technical meaning. You use the word energy in the same way that Deepak Chopra uses it, and other words like "quantum".

If you really do mean energy in the way that it is meant (ie what the universe is made of, what cannot be made or destroyed, what Einstein would comprehend as energy), then use the word energy, the use of the word Chi is superfluous and means nothing. It is like using the French word on an English speaking website.

Otherwise as previous posters have said, you are deflecting by trying to appear as if there is an air of logic and science around you, whereas in truth you are no different to the hand wavers manipulating your "energy fields".

JonJones

willthatdo wrote: »

I am an ex reiki master. I was a reiki/seichem master and also was attuned and initiated in other healing modalities, such as the munay ki. I have since given them up and renounced them all. I would strongly advise everyone to avoid reiki. Apart from the fact that modern medicine is better for physical ailments, if you are looking for spiritual healing then reiki is the wrong place to go. It is in fact spiritually dangerous and it is in my opinion taken too lightly. Unfortunately many people only discover this after they go for a treatment or especially in the case after an attunement.

what is nthe difference between reiki and seichem and what is munay ki. Never heard of that. i did google them but maybe you can explain in simple terms as befits me being a person that might foist them on a [willing] sick person desperate to be well. thanks

Ave Sodalis

JohnBee wrote: »

You may use Chi as another name for energy, but you do not use the term energy in its technical meaning. You use the word energy in the same way that Deepak Chopra uses it, and other words like "quantum".

If you really do mean energy in the way that it is meant (ie what the universe is made of, what cannot be made or destroyed, what Einstein would comprehend as energy), then use the word energy, the use of the word Chi is superfluous and means nothing. It is like using the French word on an English speaking website.

Otherwise as previous posters have said, you are deflecting by trying to appear as if there is an air of logic and science around you, whereas in truth you are no different to the hand wavers manipulating your "energy fields".

I mean chi as in this definition:

In people and animals, for example, chi is responsible for the functioning of the organs, including the cardio-­respiratory system. This life force circulates throughout the body with the blood so that it can provide its own particular form of nutrition to the myriad cells.
Every living organism has some way to assimilate chi. Human beings, animals, and plants alike ingest chi along with the air they breathe, the water they drink, and the food they eat.
Once inside, chi moves to various locations and begins to perform its many functions. The most common of these functions are generally related to the proper functioning and continued operation of the body or plant.

Yes, it's superfluous and means nothing in itself. That's my point. It is just another name for energy.

Insect Overlord

JohnBee wrote: »

If you really do mean energy in the way that it is meant (ie what the universe is made of, what cannot be made or destroyed, what Einstein would comprehend as energy), then use the word energy, the use of the word Chi is superfluous and means nothing. It is like using the French word on an English speaking website.

Rendezvous, raison d'etre, cul de sac, déjà vu. It happens all the time.

JohnBee

sup_dude wrote: »

Yes, it's superfluous and means nothing in itself. That's my point. It is just another name for energy.

Except really, its not another name for energy. Proponents of the "Chi" concept talk about how Chi links us to our surroundings, they talk about a flow, a rhythm. These are meaningless concepts. If you acknowledge them then you are dabbling in pseudoscience.

It seems you do acknowledge them because the explanation you quoted is listed straight from a website. You didnt include the more magical parts in your quote however, let me oblige:

"Try this experiment with a partner, such as your child, spouse, or friend, to see if you are able to feel the chi. Both of you should either sit or stand approximately two arms-length away from each other.
Ask your partner to close his eyes and take a deep breath. Relax your shoulders and back muscles as completely as possible. Try to imagine an energy rising from the ground into your body.
When you think you can almost sense this imaginary force, ask your partner to extend an arm toward you until it is level with the floor. The palm of the hand should be facing downward.
Slowly raise your own arms and extend your fingers until they are within a few inches of your partner's outstretched hand. Using your mind, direct the imaginary energy -- what we call the chi. Move it further up through your body until it passes along your arms and out from your fingertips.
It's helpful to imagine a current of energy passing from your body into your partner's. Whether you think this is an imaginary force or not, some people feel the chi right away, even with their eyes closed."

This is the magical Chi you talk about. This is not energy. Do not confuse the 2.

locum-motion

sup_dude wrote: »

... Please read my posts...

No, I've read them already.
I suggest you should re-read what you posted, re-read what I posted in response, and then re-read what you posted again.
Because you obviously forgot what it was that you typed in the first place.

JonJones

If reikiis just placebe why do some get a bad reaction. I have felt very disorientated after a level 2 treatment. The reiki folks say it is because it is clearing taking place

Mark Tapley

JonJones wrote: »

If reikiis just placebe why do some get a bad reaction. I have felt very disorientated after a level 2 treatment. The reiki folks say it is because it is clearing taking place

You are better than I am at discrediting reiki.

JonJones

I know one thing i did learn from reiki and other studies was not to waste my time with negative losers who must always be right to show their sad losers egos. My teacher used to say "If you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas" and to always ignore the negative sad peopke in this world as they drain one of ones [reiki] energy but since it is free one can always top up

jackboy

JonJones wrote: »

I know one thing i did learn from reiki and other studies was not to waste my time with negative losers who must always be right to show their sad losers egos. My teacher used to say "If you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas" and to always ignore the negative sad peopke in this world as they drain one of ones [reiki] energy but since it is free one can always top up

Free energy. I guess the world's energy crises is over then. Calling people who argue based on science 'dogs' and 'losers' is not very convincing.

Ave Sodalis

jackboy wrote:

Free energy. I guess the world's energy crises is over then. Calling people who argue based on science 'dogs' and 'losers' is not very convincing.

There's many people here who aren't arguing based on any science or really any thought at all...

jackboy

sup_dude wrote: »

There's many people here who aren't arguing based on any science or really any thought at all...

I agree 100%.

JohnBee

JonJones wrote: »

I know one thing i did learn from reiki and other studies was not to waste my time with negative losers who must always be right to show their sad losers egos. My teacher used to say "If you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas" and to always ignore the negative sad peopke in this world as they drain one of ones [reiki] energy but since it is free one can always top up

I think you chose the wrong metaphor.

Anyhow, mostly it is not free, don't most charlatan healers charge money?

SpaceSasqwatch

jackboy wrote: »

Free energy

all ready proven I'm afraid

Mark Tapley

JonJones wrote: »

I know one thing i did learn from reiki and other studies was not to waste my time with negative losers who must always be right to show their sad losers egos. My teacher used to say "If you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas" and to always ignore the negative sad peopke in this world as they drain one of ones [reiki] energy but since it is free one can always top up

Accept the truth of the moment and observe everything that arises in detail. While you are being an observer, let the Reiki Energy continue to flow through your body and mind and heal you.

Or failing that have a cup of tea with a couple of placebos.

Mark Tapley

sup_dude wrote: »

There's many people here who aren't arguing based on any science or really any thought at all...

You are just miffed because nobody is buying your snake oil.

strelok

Mark Tapley wrote: »

You are just miffed because nobody is buying your snake oil.

snake energy

Ave Sodalis

Mark Tapley wrote:

You are just miffed because nobody is buying your snake oil.

No, it's more the complete lack of logic which some of the posts display.

If anything, I'm a bit "miffed" at the fact that, as your post demonstrates, certain people are not reading what I'm saying at all, despite me repeating it over and over. I cannot make my views any clearer. I don't believe Reiki works... so please explain where the snake oil is coming from. Or don't bother explain because no doubt, it will be based on something misread/purposely ignored as well