The 2015 All Ireland Senior Football Championship

Tombo2001

shiibata wrote: »

I agree with you, re some of them teams you mentioned earlier that they could have beaten Ulster teams on their day but they wouldn't have beaten 3 or 4 of them in a row to win Ulster as you reckoned.. As you also point out, Donegal were virtually nowhere til 2011 but on their day up to then, could also beat anyone on the right day but could not get that elusive Provincial title

Take 2011 for instance, Donegals breakthrough year.

Donegal won every match in Ulster with ease, the lowest winning margin was 3 points, over Tyrone. Every other team they beat by 6 points or more.

Against Kildare in the quarterfinal, the match went to extra time - Kildare were leading going into injury time in extra time and Donegal scored an equaliser and a winner in injury time of extra time.

Kildare had a goal disallowed during the second half that would have put them six points up.

There was nothing between the teams.

So really, Kildare would not have been good enough to win Ulster that year?

K-9

Gee Male wrote: »

In the last 8 years, 4 out of the 5 Connacht counties have played in an AIQF. The other county has a population of 30,000 so can't really compete unfortunately.

Connacht, FTW.

Excuses tbh, Fermanagh have the smallest playing population in the country yet put the effort and resources in, unlike Antrim in Ulster You're just making excuses for Leitrim.

shiibata

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Take 2011 for instance, Donegals breakthrough year.

Donegal won every match in Ulster with ease, the lowest winning margin was 3 points, over Tyrone. Every other team they beat by 6 points or more.

Against Kildare in the quarterfinal, the match went to extra time - Kildare were leading going into injury time in extra time and Donegal scored an equaliser and a winner in injury time of extra time.

Kildare had a goal disallowed during the second half that would have put them six points up.

There was nothing between the teams.

So really, Kildare would not have been good enough to win Ulster that year?

Again, I agree with you re the Kildare game, Kildare should have won that but just because they should have beaten Donegal that day, doesn't mean they would have won Ulster. Donegal didn't beat Tyrone with ease either, if memory serves me right, was two defensive errors that led to 2 Donegal goals.. Armagh should have beat Donegal last year in the QFs like Kildare should have that year too but Armagh have not won Ulster in a while so why would Kildare be different..

J Cheever Loophole

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Take 2011 for instance, Donegals breakthrough year.

Donegal won every match in Ulster with ease, the lowest winning margin was 3 points, over Tyrone. Every other team they beat by 6 points or more.

Against Kildare in the quarterfinal, the match went to extra time - Kildare were leading going into injury time in extra time and Donegal scored an equaliser and a winner in injury time of extra time.

Kildare had a goal disallowed during the second half that would have put them six points up.

There was nothing between the teams.

So really, Kildare would not have been good enough to win Ulster that year?

Gosh - I love your judgment on that match. I have no love for Tyrone, but they were robbed that day. Tyrone were the best team in Ulster in 2011 but the breaks went Donegal's way and fair play they rammed home the advantage.

I always felt that that was a huge result for that Donegal team - it was key to winning that Ulster Title which in turn was key to instilling the self belief (and indeed belief in the Jim McGuinness management) needed to go and win further trophies.

K-9

2013 was the only time Donegal beat Tyrone with comfort.

If Tyrone had taken their shooting boots with them on 2011 they'd have won but ifs and bits. Bit like Kerry in 2012 these are the teams you've to beat to be serious contenders, something Kildare never did under McGeeney. Tipp face the same problem, running teams close is fine and everything but they need to take a big scalp in the next couple of years to move up to the second tier teams.

Jampip

K-9 wrote: »

I wasn't oblivious, obviously you'd be more aware of it. Thinking about I'm not 100% on Cavan in a QF, pretty sure, its the general point that matters.

Put this way, all this talk of a weaker championship, it would mostly be a mini Leinster and Munstet Championship with maybe Leitrim and Antrim from the rest.

Clare, Waterford, Carlow, Wicklow, Longford and Offaly would all be in a bottom 10 anyway.

According to League standings for next season, you'd be looking at 9 of the Leinster teams in the lower tier. Then 4 from Munster. 1 from Ulster. 2 from Connacht.

keane2097

It doesn't really seem sensible to use the league as a gauge of where teams stand re:Championship without have a couple of seasons of a lead in where teams know that their league standing will dictate their Championship status.

dcrosskid

Tom Joad wrote: »

Not familiar with Tipperary football at all but how many of the underage players would be lost to hurling or is that a factor at all?

A fair few, for example, Bill Maher who was wing back on the u21's would start for the senior footballers most would agree who have some knowledge of Tipp football.

He was in and around the hurling panel for most of the year but was cut about 6 weeks ago, he supposedly joined back with the senior footballers before the hurlers came calling once again. So after all that he quit the football & is waiting in the wings more or less for the hurler's.

There are a few more like the 3 McGrath's from Loughmore (Noel, John & Liam) who are nearly as good footballer's as hurler's & they're all on the senior hurling panel bar Noel who is now recovering from illness. Bubbles O Dwyer is also supposed to be a very decent footballer but I haven't seen him play.

We have more or less the exact opposite of the Dublin hurlers who lose some of their best hurlers to the footballer's like Tomas Brady, Ciaran Kilkenny & Cormac Costelloe.

keane2097

dcrosskid wrote: »

A fair few, for example, Bill Maher who was wing back on the u21's would start for the senior footballers most would agree who have some knowledge of Tipp football.

He was in and around the hurling panel for most of the year but was cut about 6 weeks ago, he supposedly joined back with the senior footballers before the hurlers came calling once again. So after all that he quit the football & is waiting in the wings more or less for the hurler's.

There are a few more like the 3 McGrath's from Loughmore (Noel, John & Liam) who are nearly as good footballer's as hurler's & they're all on the senior hurling panel bar Noel who is now recovering from illness. Bubbles O Dwyer is also supposed to be a very decent footballer but I haven't seen him play.

We have more or less the exact opposite of the Dublin hurlers who lose some of their best hurlers to the footballer's like Tomas Brady, Ciaran Kilkenny & Cormac Costelloe.

The likes of Noel McGrath and Bubbles have pretty much always been hurlers, no?

From this U21 team it seems there are plenty guys opting for football. Colin O'Riordan has definitely turned down a request to go in with the hurlers, if guys like him are sticking around I suspect the rate of attrition from that team will be low enough.

dcrosskid

keane2097 wrote: »

The likes of Noel McGrath and Bubbles have pretty much always been hurlers, no?

From this U21 team it seems there are plenty guys opting for football. Colin O'Riordan has definitely turned down a request to go in with the hurlers, if guys like him are sticking around I suspect the rate of attrition from that team will be low enough.

Ya they would always have been hurler's just highlighting that these lads star for their clubs in both codes & could probably play intercounty football also.

Colin O Riordan came in with the hurlers after the footballers were beaten last year, but it was too late in the year really to get up to speed with small ball and didn't get any game time. He is more the exception than the rule though, 90-95% of lads coming through would pick hurling if given the choice I would say.

Jampip

keane2097 wrote: »

It doesn't really seem sensible to use the league as a gauge of where teams stand re:Championship without have a couple of seasons of a lead in where teams know that their league standing will dictate their Championship status.

Of course that would be expected but I still don't think the end result would be all that different.

Look at the rankings on http://gaarankings.net/ for example. The lowest ranked Ulster team bar Antrim is Fermanagh at 18 so its realistic to expect 8 of the 9 Ulster teams to be in the top tier.

K-9

keane2097 wrote: »

It doesn't really seem sensible to use the league as a gauge of where teams stand re:Championship without have a couple of seasons of a lead in where teams know that their league standing will dictate their Championship status.

True, but teams do take it seriously enough. Nobody wants to be in Division 4 and theaim for everybody else is to get into Division 1, or at least stay in 2.

Common sense would allow a year or 2 of transition but you know yourself.......

Overall though, its the competition were everbody plays their most games and we've the provincial cups that can be used as preparation.

There's also no reason the leagues and Championship couldn't be finished by the end of August and that leaves 4 months for county and provincial club competitions.

Gee Male

K-9 wrote: »

Excuses tbh, Fermanagh have the smallest playing population in the country yet put the effort and resources in, unlike Antrim in Ulster You're just making excuses for Leitrim.

Eh? What do you mean by smallest playing population? Fermanagh have twice the population as Leitrim (60,000 compared to 30,000), surely reducing those numbers to playing population is just making excuses on behalf of Fermanagh?

If Leitrim truly do have a bigger playing population than Fermanagh while having half the actual population, then I'd suggest Leitrim deserve more credit for putting effort in than Fermanagh as it sounds like Fermanagh may just be focussing on their elite players with Leitrim spreading the love.

Though I would have to be convinced by where you get this 'playing population' figure from.

ciarriaithuaidh

Gee Male wrote: »

Eh? What do you mean by smallest playing population? Fermanagh have twice the population as Leitrim (60,000 compared to 30,000), surely reducing those numbers to playing population is just making excuses on behalf of Fermanagh?

If Leitrim truly do have a bigger playing population than Fermanagh while having half the actual population, then I'd suggest Leitrim deserve more credit for putting effort in than Fermanagh as it sounds like Fermanagh may just be focussing on their elite players with Leitrim spreading the love.

Though I would have to be convinced by where you get this 'playing population' figure from.

There's this group of people in Fermanagh and the rest of Northern Ireland called "de proteshtants"..they mightn't have them where you come from, but they aren't exactly lovers of all things Gaelic or Irish, just so you know!

Redsoxfan

OK... Protestants play GAA too. Orangemen don't. There is a distinction.

In fact, very relevant to the football championship in Ulster at least, Drew Wylie is out for the rest of the season after sustaining a cruciate injury. Bad luck for Monaghan after just getting Colin Walshe back from a similar injury.

Fwiw, Wylie is a Protestant and a damn fine GAA player.

blinding

Redsoxfan wrote: »

OK... Protestants play GAA too. Orangemen don't. There is a distinction.

In fact, very relevant to the football championship in Ulster at least, Drew Wylie is out for the rest of the season after sustaining a cruciate injury. Bad luck for Monaghan after just getting Colin Walshe back from a similar injury.

Fwiw, Wylie is a Protestant and a damn fine GAA player.

He is very important to Monaghan and a very good defender and a leader in that team.

Redsoxfan

blinding wrote: »

He is very important to Monaghan and a very good defender and a leader in that team.

I agree. And even more so given it's highly unlikely that Colin Walshe is unlikely to be fully back to his high level by Saturday or by the time the Ulster Final rolls around.

K-9

Gee Male wrote: »

Eh? What do you mean by smallest playing population? Fermanagh have twice the population as Leitrim (60,000 compared to 30,000), surely reducing those numbers to playing population is just making excuses on behalf of Fermanagh?

If Leitrim truly do have a bigger playing population than Fermanagh while having half the actual population, then I'd suggest Leitrim deserve more credit for putting effort in than Fermanagh as it sounds like Fermanagh may just be focussing on their elite players with Leitrim spreading the love.

Though I would have to be convinced by where you get this 'playing population' figure from.

Jaysus, you probably picked the worst example to go on about elite players, Fermanagh are known for fall outs and top players leaving the panel, they've about 16 clubs at most.

Actually I was on about them putting in the effort, according to Peter Canavan a couple of weeks ago their county board was terrible, he made the point that Donegal had more access last year to Breasted Park than Fermanagb did.

They can still remain pretty competitive for a small county though, Division 2 football and I can see them getting a run in the Qualifiers.

But not picking on your beloved Leitrim and Connacht, they show up Antrim who should be doing better than them.

Having about 50% of the population unlikely to pick GAS as a sport is a reality lads, no matter how much you Free Staters think otherwise! 😃

Boom__Boom

Was not the line always about Fermanagh that half of it was protestant and the other half was lakes?

K-9

Btw, breasted park is Brewster Park. Gotta love auto replace!

bucketybuck

K-9 wrote: »

Fermanagh are known for fall outs and top players leaving the panel, they've about 16 clubs at most.

We are? When did this happen?

In terms of fallouts the only problem has been regarding Seamus Quigley, who managed to fall out with 4 managers in a row and now is probably finished as an intercounty player. Thats just one player though, and Sean Quigley continues to play well for the team.

Going back quite a few years now there was the John O'Neill era that saw quite a few players simply not declare for the panel rather than a public falling out. They had good reason too.

Beyond that, there isn't really a history of our top players falling out and leaving the panel. As you say, we don't have the playing population to get away with that anyway. Do you know how boring it is to play the same damn club teams every season! :-D

ciarriaithuaidh

Redsoxfan wrote: »

OK... Protestants play GAA too. Orangemen don't. There is a distinction.

In fact, very relevant to the football championship in Ulster at least, Drew Wylie is out for the rest of the season after sustaining a cruciate injury. Bad luck for Monaghan after just getting Colin Walshe back from a similar injury.

Fwiw, Wylie is a Protestant and a damn fine GAA player.

I agree with all that. My earlier post was completely in jest..maybe it wasn't obvious.

K-9

Didn't Mulgrew have to deal with a few players dropping out? My memory is probably totally off but didn't a certain Rory Gallagher leave around that time?

downthemiddle

Redsoxfan wrote: »

I agree. And even more so given it's highly unlikely that Colin Walshe is unlikely to be fully back to his high level by Saturday or by the time the Ulster Final rolls around.

You do know that Wylie is out for the season?

bucketybuck

Redsoxfan wrote: »

OK... Protestants play GAA too. Orangemen don't. There is a distinction.

In fact, very relevant to the football championship in Ulster at least, Drew Wylie is out for the rest of the season after sustaining a cruciate injury. Bad luck for Monaghan after just getting Colin Walshe back from a similar injury.

Fwiw, Wylie is a Protestant and a damn fine GAA player.

Wylie is very much the exception and not the rule (and notably Monaghan is not in Northern Ireland, which matters). I know a few other protestants who play football, but really its a very minimal number. And its nothing to do with Protestants or Orangemen, that distinction is meaningless.

Redsoxfan

downthemiddle wrote:

You do know that Wylie is out for the season?

Yes, I do.

bucketybuck

K-9 wrote: »

Didn't Mulgrew have to deal with a few players dropping out? My memory is probably totally off but didn't a certain Rory Gallagher leave around that time?

Rory Gallagher left around that time, but there was no big drama or any fallout, he just went off and changed clubs and left the scene. There was talk that some players didn't get on with him and he was a prickly character, but still we aren't talking any big drama. A player left the panel or didn't make himself available, that happens in every county, do Tyrone have a history of fallouts because of when Stephen O'Neill quit? Or when Declan McCrossan drifted away?

Stoner

bucketybuck wrote:

I know a few other protestants who play football, but really its a very minimal number. And its nothing to do with Protestants or Orangemen, that distinction is meaningless.

I wouldn't agree. I know protestants who play football too, but no orangemen. The distinction is significant IMHO. Anyway I'll let that be the extent of my political input

J Cheever Loophole

bucketybuck wrote: »

Rory Gallagher left around that time, but there was no big drama or any fallout, he just went off and changed clubs and left the scene. There was talk that some players didn't get on with him and he was a prickly character, but still we aren't talking any big drama. A player left the panel or didn't make himself available, that happens in every county, do Tyrone have a history of fallouts because of when Stephen O'Neill quit? Or when Declan McCrossan drifted away?

His leaving the scene in my opinion cost Fermanagh an All Ireland Final appearance (2004) and the much coveted Ulster Title (2008) when ye had us there for the taking but couldn't convert your frees.

I've said it often - there's not a supporter in Clones that day of the replay in 2008 who wouldn't willingly have swapped the 2004 and 2008 results between us.

Jampip

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

His leaving the scene in my opinion cost Fermanagh an All Ireland Final appearance (2004) and the much coveted Ulster Title (2008) when ye had us there for the taking but couldn't convert your frees.

I've said it often - there's not a supporter in Clones that day of the replay in 2008 who wouldn't willingly have swapped the 2004 and 2008 results between us.

Wasn't it rumoured at the time that he left in the hope that Tommy Lyons would call him up for Dublin?

With Wylie gone now, I can see Fermanagh giving Monaghan a right good rattle on Sunday.

bucketybuck

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

His leaving the scene in my opinion cost Fermanagh an All Ireland Final appearance (2004) and the much coveted Ulster Title (2008) when ye had us there for the taking but couldn't convert your frees.

I've said it often - there's not a supporter in Clones that day of the replay in 2008 who wouldn't willingly have swapped the 2004 and 2008 results between us.

He was a brilliant player but a team is more than the sum of its parts, so no I don't agree that he would have brought us to the final in 2004. Again, there was no formal bust up but he was very much an individual who didn't gel with many players, whereas the 2004 team was very much a team.

And of course I'd swap the 2004 and 2008 results any day, and maybe Gallagher would have scored that last free in the drawn game. But that was a 20 yard free, it shouldn't really have mattered who took it.

J Cheever Loophole

bucketybuck wrote: »

He was a brilliant player but a team is more than the sum of its parts, so no I don't agree that he would have brought us to the final in 2004.

My abiding memory of the two Mayo games was Fermanagh spurning a series of gilt edged chances, many in the form of scoreable frees. I cannot believe his presence would not have taken Fermanagh over the line.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Again, there was no formal bust up but he was very much an individual who didn't gel with many players, whereas the 2004 team was very much a team.

The impression I had of him exactly. What you appear though to be suggesting is that his presence in 2004 would have been so detrimental as to have taken away from the overall team effort, despite his undoubted ability and score getting!

K-9

An Ulster title or an AI final of Fermanagh vs the kingdom, nothing beats your county in an All Ireland for me, spine tingling stuff, win lose or draw.

Was at the drawn match, ye had them for the taking both days.

J Cheever Loophole

K-9 wrote: »

An Ulster title or an AI final of Fermanagh vs the kingdom, nothing beats your county in an All Ireland for me, spine tingling stuff, win lose or draw.

Was at the drawn match, ye had them for the taking both days.

You're saying that as someone who has seen their County win numerous Senior provincial titles. No Fermanagh man, woman or child has ever had that experience on even a single occasion.

bucketybuck

K-9 wrote: »

An Ulster title or an AI final of Fermanagh vs the kingdom, nothing beats your county in an All Ireland for me, spine tingling stuff, win lose or draw.

Was at the drawn match, ye had them for the taking both days.

Its not even a question for me. I would have swapped every second of that run in 2004 for just one more point in the 2008 drawn game.

Stoner

Jampip wrote:

Wasn't it rumoured at the time that he left in the hope that Tommy Lyons would call him up for Dublin?

That was a rumour alright.

willabur

Stoner wrote: »

That was a rumour alright.

he was holding out for a call up to his beloved Cavan!!

iDave

Football not completely dead in Offaly. 1.20 1.07 win over the blaas.

Boom__Boom

iDave wrote: »

Football not completely dead in Offaly. 1.20 1.07 win over the blaas.

I think the winning margin might have more to do with where Waterford football is at the moment - Waterford only had 24 players listed in their squad.

iDave

Antrim beat Laois!


Another fcuk up for Leinster football

Boom__Boom

Cavan had a stroll in the park versus London.

Antrim dropped 3 St Galls players because they played a club game last night. Antrim county board was going to fine St Galls if they didn't play.
Laois were 1-10 to 0-6 up against them and Laois got a penalty. Ross Munnelly had the penalty saved - 2nd week in a row. Laois got a point to make to 1-11 to 0-6 but Antrim went on a run to make it 1-11 to 1-10.

Ended up FT Laois 1-16 Antrim 2-15

Not exactly a massive shock given how poor Laois did against Kildare but definitely a shock. Laois conceded 2-10 in the 2nd half.

This result against Antrim should quash any notions Kildare folk might have been getting about the Dublin game, especially when they remember that for 3 out of 4 of the halves played against Laois, it was pretty much even-steven.

Hammer Archer

iDave wrote: »

Antrim beat Laois!


Another fcuk up for Leinster football

Christ that's a disaster for Laois. Obviously last Saturday's second half against Kildare took a lot out of them. Funnily enough, Laois are out after playing 4 games before Sligo have played their first.

klairondavis

Boom__Boom wrote: »

This result against Antrim should quash any notions Kildare folk might have been getting about the Dublin game, especially when they remember that for 3 out of 4 of the halves played against Laois, it was pretty much even-steven.

Notions? We'll be doing well to bring more than 3 or 4 thousand with us next Sunday. I can't remember a Kildare football team ever being such huge odds for a one off game.

blinding

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Christ that's a disaster for Laois. Obviously last Saturday's second half against Kildare took a lot out of them. Funnily enough, Laois are out after playing 4 games before Sligo have played their first.

The GAA has to do something with the All-Ireland Championship. Thats crazy.

Steven81

iDave wrote: »

Antrim beat Laois!


Another fcuk up for Leinster football

22 games it took for a team to beat another from a higher division. Division 2 vs 4

iDave

I dont think the favourites tag sits well with Laois. We've seen twice this year now.

iDave

Quite enjoying this Sligo Roscommon game. Sligo have turned up and giving the rossies a lot to think about. Proper championship stuff with both emphasising attack over defence.

Hammer Archer

Longford leading by 3 against Carlow at HT.
Counting on a better second half from Longford. Have Longford -8 for a nice treble to come through.

Hammer Archer

Longford get a goal and Carlow go right down the other end and get one. Longford then get another immediately
2-8 to 1-6

Sheeko2001

Great win for Antrim today!