The 2015 All Ireland Senior Football Championship

Ceist_Beag

Bambi wrote: »

Poor gallagher might not even remember what a kick pass is

What like his kick pass in to Paddy for the first goal against Armagh? Look if you're going to point out the fallacy of an argument don't make an equally invalid argument back!
That said, Nidge I'm afraid I have to agree with Stoner here, you're argument is impossible to defend. MDM might not look like the most graceful footballer ever and he does divide opinion but there is no way I could agree with a claim that we won last year because we have more natural footballers. Individually I think Dublin have more quality footballers than any other county - by a distance.

J Cheever Loophole

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Armagh is a predominantly nationalist city. Any bonfires (and there are two I can think off) are restricted to specific areas in the East of the City. The ground is in the south-west and traffic going to the match will be coming into the City from that general direction - via Monaghan (South-west) and Caledon (West).

I really hope that anyone considering coming up for the game does not let something like this put them off.

Ceist_Beag

Are the venues for the games decided already? I thought they were still to be confirmed?

2moreMinutes

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

What like his kick pass in to Paddy for the first goal against Armagh? Look if you're going to point out the fallacy of an argument don't make an equally invalid argument back!
That said, Nidge I'm afraid I have to agree with Stoner here, you're argument is impossible to defend. MDM might not look like the most graceful footballer ever and he does divide opinion but there is no way I could agree with a claim that we won last year because we have more natural footballers. Individually I think Dublin have more quality footballers than any other county - by a distance.

I assumed his comment was just throwing a grenade into a looping nonsense debate for a reaction hence my :popcorn: reply to it. I assumed it was......

munchkin_utd

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Are the venues for the games decided already? I thought they were still to be confirmed?

you'd wonder what they are up to - is it a security issue or a problem for tv scheduling and they are waiting to see what happens in the hurling qualifiers.

Or should security considerations be a problem, are they thinking out of the box and looking at moving Tyrone Meath and Armagh Galway games as a double header in Breffni or Clones ?
Still, I can imagine the counties with a home advantage being loath to let it go.

Just An Opinion

Stoner wrote: »

You don't Nidgeweasel. If you had you'd have more medals. If you had all those natural intelligent players you wouldn't have a team that had to develop the system you used to win the all Ireland in 2012 because you were getting beaten in Ulster all the time. If you had natural intelligent footballers from 1-15 you wouldn't have been so exhausted in 2013 that you had nothing left for a whole season and got completely taken apart by Mayo I 2013.
Kerry won four in a row with the same 15 players and a sub. They were natural intelligent players they didn't have to give so much in one year that they had nothing left for the following year.
You have a team with one super player and a handful of very good players. McGuniness won one all Ireland, he developed a system that most pundits recognise and have written about. If he had a natural intelligent player for every position 1-15 they would have beaten Kerry last year and Mayo the year before and Dublin four years ago. With a natural intelligent player in every position you wouldn't need to pull everyone behind the ball. You would have won more before McGuniness came on board.

Your claim is as arrogant and unbelievable as any of the BS and hype you have correctly pointed out has been written about Dublin in the past. Donegal were well worth their win last year, I don't like it when others try to belittle an all Ireland win either but I think you've gone ahead of yourself here. You are reading too much into the BS pushed by Brolly and the like. There is so much BS written about matches that McGuniness got right and so little written about the ones he gets wrong. Y

You can't be all things to all people.
A great system, the best manager, the best tactician, the best team, the best prepared, have an intelligent natural player in every position and only win one all Ireland in four or five years.

You left out dedicated, committed, disciplined all attributes that spring to mind when I think about donegal. Some of your players are intelligent and have a lot of natural ability. Some have average ability but all the lads are fully committed to the cause. You have an exceptional team, a team that has weaknesses that a system allows and compensates for like making defensive errors and limited scoring options.

After your well deserved a Ireland in 2012, the system that was used to win it was blamed by many for the flat year in 2013. The idea being that it takes so much to play to that system that it is unsustainable two years running.
Had you won the All Ireland with a natural intelligent player in every position you could have kicked on.
But you didn't. That is as much as a fact as Donegal were a better team than Dublin large year. That's what the results say and history will record.

Well said Stoner, spot on. But to be honest this tool is basically the Donegal version of Stinicker. I generally just glance over the bollocks they come out with with as much give a sh!t as Fr. Jack holding confession.

Redsoxfan

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

Armagh is a predominantly nationalist city. Any bonfires (and there are two I can think off) are restricted to specific areas in the East of the City. The ground is in the south-west and traffic going to the match will be coming into the City from that general direction - via Monaghan (South-west) and Caledon (West).

I really hope that anyone considering coming up for the game does not let something like this put them off.

Honest question, but would you avoid the Newry->Armagh road if heading/to from the Athletic Grounds around the 12th?

Dirty Dingus McGee

Stoner wrote: »

You don't Nidgeweasel. If you had you'd have more medals. If you had all those natural intelligent players you wouldn't have a team that had to develop the system you used to win the all Ireland in 2012 because you were getting beaten in Ulster all the time. If you had natural intelligent footballers from 1-15 you wouldn't have been so exhausted in 2013 that you had nothing left for a whole season and got completely taken apart by Mayo I 2013.
Kerry won four in a row with the same 15 players and a sub. They were natural intelligent players they didn't have to give so much in one year that they had nothing left for the following year.
You have a team with one super player and a handful of very good players. McGuniness won one all Ireland, he developed a system that most pundits recognise and have written about. If he had a natural intelligent player for every position 1-15 they would have beaten Kerry last year and Mayo the year before and Dublin four years ago. With a natural intelligent player in every position you wouldn't need to pull everyone behind the ball. You would have won more before McGuniness came on board.

Your claim is as arrogant and unbelievable as any of the BS and hype you have correctly pointed out has been written about Dublin in the past. Donegal were well worth their win last year, I don't like it when others try to belittle an all Ireland win either but I think you've gone ahead of yourself here. You are reading too much into the BS pushed by Brolly and the like. There is so much BS written about matches that McGuniness got right and so little written about the ones he gets wrong. Y

You can't be all things to all people.
A great system, the best manager, the best tactician, the best team, the best prepared, have an intelligent natural player in every position and only win one all Ireland in four or five years.

You left out dedicated, committed, disciplined all attributes that spring to mind when I think about donegal. Some of your players are intelligent and have a lot of natural ability. Some have average ability but all the lads are fully committed to the cause. You have an exceptional team, a team that has weaknesses that a system allows and compensates for like making defensive errors and limited scoring options.

After your well deserved a Ireland in 2012, the system that was used to win it was blamed by many for the flat year in 2013. The idea being that it takes so much to play to that system that it is unsustainable two years running.
Had you won the All Ireland with a natural intelligent player in every position you could have kicked on.
But you didn't. That is as much as a fact as Donegal were a better team than Dublin large year. That's what the results say and history will record.

In fairness Donegal have a bit more natural talent than that , Karl Lacey is one of the top 3 (If not the best) defenders of the century so far and will go down as an all time great.McFadden when on form is one of the best forwards in Ireland and was a class act before McGuiness was there.McBrearty will go on to be a great player and Neil McGee is probably the best full back in Ireland and Neil Gallagher was always a quality midfielder well before McGuiness was there.

The media completely went overboard about McGuinness and forgot completely how Donbegal's players are.Even McGuinness himself admits they wouldn't have got anywhere without the talent they had.

J Cheever Loophole

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Honest question, but would you avoid the Newry->Armagh road if heading/to from the Athletic Grounds around the 12th?

If it's on the twelfth itself, which falls on a Sunday this year, there should be no issues - the place is likely to be very quiet with the parades on the thirteenth.

If it was a day either side, there would be no problem using the road to gain access - you might find a diversion on the 13th due a feeder parade which would close the Barrack Street area where the Newry Road comes into the City - but that would be well signposted with PSNI giving directions.

I appreciate for a lot of people, there can be an element of fear of the unknown, but I genuinely don't envisage there being any trouble, particularly anywhere near the ground.

keane2097

Karl Lacey has been a super player but probably has slipped down to the 'very good' level in the last year or two.

Neil McGee is undoubtedly a super footballer IMO, he's absolutely brilliant. Trying to think of another full back in the country who is on his level, I don't think there is one.

McGlynn is at the very top level also. Gallagher is close, probably is at the top level as well.

After that I think all the rest are in the 'very good' bracket and you probably have N McGee, McGlynn, Gallagher and Murphy in the very top bracket of players in the country.

McGuinness himself as much as admitted Dublin have a superior array of talent on Today FM on Sunday, FWIW.

Redsoxfan

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

If it's on the twelfth itself, which falls on a Sunday this year, there should be no issues - the place is likely to be very quiet with the parades on the thirteenth.

If it was a day either side, there would be no problem using the road to gain access - you might find a diversion on the 13th due a feeder parade which would close the Barrack Street area where the Newry Road comes into the City - but that would be well signposted with PSNI giving directions.

I appreciate for a lot of people, there can be an element of fear of the unknown, but I genuinely don't envisage there being any trouble, particularly anywhere near the ground.

To be clear, I was speaking about coming off the A1 onto the A28 rather than coming from Newry itself - there is an area you pass through after the first roundabout that seems to be a little 'showy'. And then there's Markethill, but the road pretty much skirts around the town. Anyway, I fully accept what your general point, I was just more curious about specific areas.

dofoul

keane2097 wrote: »

I'd still be strongly of the opinion looking at that then that the number of chances coughed up in the first half against Dublin was not unexpected/system failure stuff, and that the Dublin point taking weighting of +3.528 in that period had a way bigger effect on the optic of Dublin running away with things.

Interested in hearing your take on that?

Haven't followed the whole thread - guessing that could be an issue on here! - but

(a) I'd agree re the goal chances for Dublin. Given their propensity to go for them at a higher rate than anyone else, and Donegal's propensity to cough up ~2, the 4 or 5 in a game is probably within the expected range.

(b) I get the point on the optics. Dublin were "running away with things" on the scoreboard because they were converting at a much higher rate than anyone could have expected but in another way the scoreboard was just reflecting their superior skill in that first 20 minutes.

Bogsnorkler

For all the pats on the back Donegal are getting, they'd want to be winning a lot more in the ocming years to leave a legacy worth taking about. You'd swear they invented football!

Having said that, the timing of the re-emergence of Donegal as a force comes at a bad time with Dublin and, to a lesser extent, Kerry reasserting their dominanace.

What would it have been like if one of these teams were around in particularly poor Championship years from 2008 to 2010, where a declining Kerry and Tyrone along with a mentally weak Cork team were on top?

Boom__Boom

Bogsnorkler wrote: »

For all the pats on the back Donegal are getting, they'd want to be winning a lot more in the ocming years to leave a legacy worth taking about. You'd swear they invented football!

Having said that, the timing of the re-emergence of Donegal as a force comes at a bad time with Dublin and, to a lesser extent, Kerry reasserting their dominanace.

What would it have been like if one of these teams were around in particularly poor Championship years from 2008 to 2010, where a declining Kerry and Tyrone along with a mentally weak Cork team were on top?

The thing is a huge chunk of the Donegal squad were around in those years.

The following is a list of when these Donegal players made their championship debuts

Christy Toye 2002
Colm McFadden 2002
Eamon McGee 2004
Karl Lacey 2004
Neil Gallagher 2004
Rory Kavanagh 2004
Paul Durcan 2006
Neil McGee 2006
Anthony Thompson2006
Frank McGlynn 2006
Michael Murphy 2008
Paddy McGrath 2010

Nidgeweasel

Stoner wrote: »

You don't Nidgeweasel. If you had you'd have more medals. If you had all those natural intelligent players you wouldn't have a team that had to develop the system you used to win the all Ireland in 2012 because you were getting beaten in Ulster all the time. If you had natural intelligent footballers from 1-15 you wouldn't have been so exhausted in 2013 that you had nothing left for a whole season and got completely taken apart by Mayo I 2013.
Kerry won four in a row with the same 15 players and a sub. They were natural intelligent players they didn't have to give so much in one year that they had nothing left for the following year.
You have a team with one super player and a handful of very good players. McGuniness won one all Ireland, he developed a system that most pundits recognise and have written about. If he had a natural intelligent player for every position 1-15 they would have beaten Kerry last year and Mayo the year before and Dublin four years ago. With a natural intelligent player in every position you wouldn't need to pull everyone behind the ball. You would have won more before McGuniness came on board.

Your claim is as arrogant and unbelievable as any of the BS and hype you have correctly pointed out has been written about Dublin in the past. Donegal were well worth their win last year, I don't like it when others try to belittle an all Ireland win either but I think you've gone ahead of yourself here. You are reading too much into the BS pushed by Brolly and the like. There is so much BS written about matches that McGuniness got right and so little written about the ones he gets wrong. Y

You can't be all things to all people.
A great system, the best manager, the best tactician, the best team, the best prepared, have an intelligent natural player in every position and only win one all Ireland in four or five years.

You left out dedicated, committed, disciplined all attributes that spring to mind when I think about donegal. Some of your players are intelligent and have a lot of natural ability. Some have average ability but all the lads are fully committed to the cause. You have an exceptional team, a team that has weaknesses that a system allows and compensates for like making defensive errors and limited scoring options.

After your well deserved a Ireland in 2012, the system that was used to win it was blamed by many for the flat year in 2013. The idea being that it takes so much to play to that system that it is unsustainable two years running.
Had you won the All Ireland with a natural intelligent player in every position you could have kicked on.
But you didn't. That is as much as a fact as Donegal were a better team than Dublin large year. That's what the results say and history will record.

You saying you should win every game with natural intelligent footballers? I certainly haven't said they were the best or whatever just our players last year against the dubs were smarter and I rated them as more natural footballers. I don't get the hypersensitivity or the offence to be honest.

Going through your post you can't win an All Ireland with one super player and a dab of "good players". This is what I don't like about the talk of the system, it almost belittles the ability of the players that are there, it's about the system and not the quality within.

We've always had great players, sadly great players who couldn't have given a hoot in reality. The tracksuit ravers McGee called them, and he could write a book on it. We were also naive attempting to play 'traditional' football in Ulster (plenty of plaudits and no medals) and getting eaten up by Tyrone and Armagh and the way they played with the physicality they brought. Something Kerry struggled with, with an outstanding panel of players. There was no question over ability, merely application. Should be pointed out that 'down the country' we'd go into championship games and beat the likes of Meath, Galway. Give the Dubs a good rattle (before going on a binge before a replay), Cork etc.

What McGuinness brought was a desperately needed level of competitiveness,preparation and discipline none of which was there previously. And all three are needed to be successful whether you are Kerry or whether you are London. All the talk of the system etc it was very simple really, shut off the scoring zone and allow the team to fulfil its potential playing a very typically Donegal brand of football, counter attack at speed, short (hand) passing and off the shoulder support play. That's how my club have always played for example in terms of moving the ball.


You mention 2013, the players hadn't trained as much as the previous year due to the late start, were hampered by injury to key personnel and what isn't ever mentioned, the club championship was ran off in the middle of the Ulster campaign. We were on a hiding to nothing, they quite simply were not fit. Can you imagine Dublin players being back with their clubs a week before an All Ireland quarter final? Ridiculous in the modern game.


The point about intelligent footballers is a fair one. Donegal had proven that they could take information from JMG and carry it out to the letter of the law. There was no doubt in my mind that we would beat the Dubs last year. Because 1) the players would know exactly where the weaknesses were and ruthlessly expose them and 2) Dublin would panic. Just as they did in 2011. You've tremendous players like Brogan firing silly shots from impossible angles desperately trying to make an impact but unable to do so. Then players just running gung ho getting themselves into trouble repeating the same mistakes over and over again. Donegal on the other hand were patient and collected, even when 7 points down. That to me is, intelligence or a lack thereof.

You could argue that it comes with experience of course. Our older core group of players are namely Christy Toye, Mc Fadden and the guys who won the vocational all Ireland in 2002, Papa, Lacey, the McGees. These boys have so much football under their belts (club and county) and with that the intelligence and understanding that comes with it. Dublin didn't have that to my eye. A lot of them are younger lads who haven't really had to go round the block, just thrust into an exceptional panel cruising through Leinster and easily competing in finals and semi finals.

It's worth pointing out also those boys above are just out and out 'footballers' as it was before the vast change in recent years in terms of conditioning etc. I rate them as more natural footballers than some of those on the Dublin team. I really don't get the big deal about it.

For what it's worth I said after the semi final last year that we will have created a monster and that defeat would be good for the Dubs in the long haul. There won't be the same level of naivety anymore from you lot and the rest of the country should be incredibly worried. You're welcome.

Sheldons Brain

Redsoxfan wrote: »

To be clear, I was speaking about coming off the A1 onto the A28 rather than coming from Newry itself - there is an area you pass through after the first roundabout that seems to be a little 'showy'. And then there's Markethill, but the road pretty much skirts around the town. Anyway, I fully accept what your general point, I was just more curious about specific areas.

You can always approach Armagh from Castleblayney, if you wish, when coming from Dublin.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

K-9

Love the revisionist Dubs on here.

Look Dublin could have had the semi final over after 20 minutes, they didn't, simple as. We've all got our one that got away, Armagh in 03 for me, but Dublin just couldn't match Donegal after those 20 minutes, simple as. Efficient, lethal forward lines do that to you.

Tyrone Kerry 85, Kildare Galway 98, Mayo Cork 89, Dublin from 91 to 94, Tyrone 95, Armagh 98 to 06, that's just All Ireland's, the list goes on and on..Kerry will never stop moaning about Tyrone.

It isn't as if it was a close match in the end,ye got hammered.

K-9

I would agree with the myth of the manager, not much McGuinness could do in 2013.

Should Dublin have seen what was happening in the semi final? Yes. Was the tactical awareness there? No.

You're comparing a county with pretty limited resources, an upstart, against a traditional heavy weight of GAA, that has every resource conceivable in the modern game open to it.

What McGuinness did was making a group of players believe an Ulster title was possible. Everything after that was unimaginable..

Imagine somebody taking over Kildare now and winning an All Ireland in 2 years. That's the context and achievement.

You can't look at this in the eyes of what the current top 4 are. That donegal are part of the big 4 was unimaginable 5 years ago.

Who thinks Kildare will be that in 2020?

STB.

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla .......................

You could argue that it comes with experience of course. Our older core group of players are namely Christy Toye, Mc Fadden and the guys who won the vocational all Ireland in 2002, Papa, Lacey, the McGees. These boys have so much football under their belts (club and county) and with that the intelligence and understanding that comes with it. Dublin didn't have that to my eye. A lot of them are younger lads who haven't really had to go round the block, just thrust into an exceptional panel cruising through Leinster and easily competing in finals and semi finals.

It's worth pointing out also those boys above are just out and out 'footballers' as it was before the vast change in recent years in terms of conditioning etc. I rate them as more natural footballers than some of those on the Dublin team. I really don't get the big deal about it.

You are seriously deluded. What was all that rubbish about.

Stephen Cluxton 2001 (2 All Ireland, 5 All Stars)
Alan Brogan 2002 (2 All Irelands, 3 All Stars, Footballer of the Year)
Bernard Brogan 2006 (2 All Ireland, 3 All Stars, Footballer of the Year)
Denis Bastick 2007(2 All Irelands)
Paul Flynn 2008 (2 All Irelands, 4 All Stars)
Diamuid Connolly 2008 (2 All Irelands, 1 All Star)
Philly McMahon 2008 (2 All Irelands)
Rory O'Caroll 2009 (2 All Irelands, 1 All Star)
Cian O'Sullivan 2009 (2 All Irelands)
Michael Darragh McAuley 2009 (2 All Irelands, 2 All Stars, Footballer of the Year)

Infact the majority of the team have at least 2 All Irelands and countless NFLs. Some even have All Ireland Club Championship medals and Hurling League Medals.

Seriously. A grip on reality please.

K-9

Bambi wrote: »

Someone should tell him, he was kick passing to blue shirts all day on Sunday completely unaware how unnatural it was for him


Poor gallagher might not even remember what a kick pass is

Yeah, McAuley had all of Croker to line up the pass!

Look, both are fantastic players, Gallagher, the archetypal traditional midfielder has somehow adapted to the modern game, McGuinness wasn't even sure about him!

MOTM for me against Kerry and Cork in 2012, when it really mattered, Fielding of the highest quality, the antithesis ofDonegal in 2011, midfield didn't matter.

Donegal aren't impressive this year, but how do you deal with an attacking threat that punishes fouls out in the 45/50 with more or less guaranteed points, and if you don't foul will eventually score anyway!

Tough but to crack!

STB.

K-9 wrote: »

Donegal aren't impressive this year, but how do you deal with an attacking threat that punishes fouls out in the 45/50 with more or less guaranteed points, and if you don't foul will eventually score anyway!

Thats what Donegal will have to figure out.

K-9

STB. wrote: »

You are seriously deluded. What was all that rubbish about.

Stephen Cluxton 2001 (2 All Ireland, 5 All Stars)
Alan Brogan 2002 (2 All Irelands, 3 All Stars, Footballer of the Year)
Bernard Brogan 2006 (2 All Ireland, 3 All Stars, Footballer of the Year)
Denis Bastick 2007(2 All Irelands)
Paul Flynn 2008 (2 All Irelands, 4 All Stars)
Diamuid Connolly 2008 (2 All Irelands, 1 All Star)
Philly McMahon 2008 (2 All Irelands)
Rory O'Caroll 2009 (2 All Irelands, 1 All Star)
Cian O'Sullivan 2009 (2 All Irelands)
Michael Darragh McAuley 2009 (2 All Irelands, 2 All Stars, Footballer of the Year)

Infact the majority of the team have at least 2 All Irelands and countless NFLs. Some even have All Ireland Club Championship medals and Hurling League Medals.

Seriously. A grip on reality please.

Anybody who tries to correlated AI Clubs and AI Seniors.........

Sure Donegal clubs have never won an official Ulster Club,and we've 2 AllIrelands, just as much as Down with a big history in lubs, and more than Derry, one of The strongest counties for clubs in the country.

Then you mention All Stars.

Karl Lacey had 3 and no AI medal!

K-9

By Down I mean in the last 25 years.

Nidgeweasel

STB. wrote: »

You are seriously deluded. What was all that rubbish about.

Stephen Cluxton 2001 (2 All Ireland, 5 All Stars)
Alan Brogan 2002 (2 All Irelands, 3 All Stars, Footballer of the Year)
Bernard Brogan 2006 (2 All Ireland, 3 All Stars, Footballer of the Year)
Denis Bastick 2007(2 All Irelands)
Paul Flynn 2008 (2 All Irelands, 4 All Stars)
Diamuid Connolly 2008 (2 All Irelands, 1 All Star)
Philly McMahon 2008 (2 All Irelands)
Rory O'Caroll 2009 (2 All Irelands, 1 All Star)
Cian O'Sullivan 2009 (2 All Irelands)
Michael Darragh McAuley 2009 (2 All Irelands, 2 All Stars, Footballer of the Year)

Infact the majority of the team have at least 2 All Irelands and countless NFLs. Some even have All Ireland Club Championship medals and Hurling League Medals.

Seriously. A grip on reality please.

S Cluxton, M Fitzsimons, R O'Carroll, P McMahon (0-01), J McCarthy, J Cooper, J McCaffrey, MD Macauley, C O'Sullivan, P Flynn (0-04), C Costello, D Connolly (0-05, 1f), A Brogan (0-02), E O'Gara, B Brogan (0-03, 1f)


"A lot of them are [younger] lads who haven't really had to go round the block, just thrust into an exceptional panel cruising through Leinster and easily competing in finals and semi finals. "

Ceist_Beag

One thing about the qualifier system this year - it's an arse! If Donegal lose to Monaghan in a few weeks time, they're opponents could well end up being Tyrone, Armagh or Derry if all 3 win their next round (the other possible opponent would be the winner of Tipp/Louth). And even if they win the final, the quarter final will still come from the same side of the qualifiers!
How on earth is that fair? It suggest that the tougher your provincial draw is, the more likely you will meet the teams you beat again down the line. That's a farce!

ArielAtom

I think we should just award the AI to Donegal, then put forward a motion at congress to split them in two they are that good!!!!!!!!!!!!

In real terms Sam is up for grabs, Donegal, Kerry or Dublin for me, I think Mayo's ship has sailed.

Donegal slight favourites due to a competitive Ulster campaign, then Kerry, Dublin sailing through Leinster will do them no favours.

intellectual dosser

ArielAtom wrote: »

I think we should just award the AI to Donegal, then put forward a motion at congress to split them in two they are that good!!!!!!!!!!!!

In real terms Sam is up for grabs, Donegal, Kerry or Dublin for me, I think Mayo's ship has sailed.

Donegal slight favourites due to a competitive Ulster campaign, then Kerry, Dublin sailing through Leinster will do them no favours.

Kerry are only going to improve on last year, especially if Gooch is even a shadow of his former self. The Dubs showed on Sunday that they are also a different animal from last year.

I think the bookies have the list of (4) favorites right at the moment with Dublin, Kerry, Donegal and Mayo.

Dr Crippen

Kildare lose two more off the panel, Mulhall and Hyland. Things are going well for us so far this season

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kildare-rocked-by-athy-defections-following-dublin-demolition-31343469.html

Boom__Boom

Dr Crippen wrote: »

Kildare lose two more off the panel, Mulhall and Hyland. Things are going well for us so far this season

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kildare-rocked-by-athy-defections-following-dublin-demolition-31343469.html

Is there an argument to be made for a rule that anyone who represents their county in the championship is ineligible for a transfer abroad until that county is out of the championship ?

If you want to go to the States fair enough, but tell the manager before the start of the championship as opposed to heading to the airport if you lose a game and end up in the qualifiers.

elefant

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Is there an argument to be made for a rule that anyone who represents their county in the championship is ineligible for a transfer abroad until that county is out of the championship ?

If you want to go to the States fair enough, but tell the manager before the start of the championship as opposed to heading to the airport if you lose a game and end up in the qualifiers.

How are US clubs allowed to have this exemption to eligibility rules? Moving to other counties or countries you can't play championship for 2 clubs in one year, never mind playing for your county and then onto playing for another club.

The rules are garbage anyway, but it's strange that US clubs are the only ones allowed to get around them.

Dr Crippen

Yeah there is an argument for that alright but even though the guys literally live on a professional sportsperson basis, it is an amateur game and I dont think you can tie any of them into a contract without proper remuneration. In my opinion that would only be fair, right?


There seems to an underlying issue in the Kildare dressing room, players coming and going. As a supporter I have watched some fantastic players walk away from the panel for the past few years and they haven't been replaced with equal or greater talent in some cases.

I felt McGeeney was making progress, building a strong physical squad, then he was thrown to the heap.

Its very frustrating as a supporter to see my team capitulate in some many games, hand passing across the pitch, kicking so many wides. A system for example where Ronan Quinn is running on to the pitch constantly telling players where to go, as a player that has to be so frustrating and confusing. As much as I hate to say it I cannot see things improving any time soon.

intellectual dosser

The shame about it is that they must have been planning this all along, they cant have been 100% certain on beating Dublin when they saw the draw.

Boom__Boom

Dr Crippen wrote: »

Yeah there is an argument for that alright but even though the guys literally live on a professional sportsperson basis, it is an amateur game and I dont think you can tie any of them into a contract without proper remuneration. In my opinion that would only be fair, right?


There seems to an underlying issue in the Kildare dressing room, players coming and going. As a supporter I have watched some fantastic players walk away from the panel for the past few years and they haven't been replaced with equal or greater talent in some cases.

I felt McGeeney was making progress, building a strong physical squad, then he was thrown to the heap.

Its very frustrating as a supporter to see my team capitulate in some many games, hand passing across the pitch, kicking so many wides. A system for example where Ronan Quinn is running on to the pitch constantly telling players where to go, as a player that has to be so frustrating and confusing. As much as I hate to say it I cannot see things improving any time soon.

Either ask them to make the commitment to the county as an amateur for the length of the county's run in the qualifiers or tell them they are free to go from the start of the summer.

I'm not saying that lads are stopped from going to the US if they want , but I am saying that that should all know if they want to be considered to play for a county at the start of the championship they have to commit for the full span of the their county's participation.

I can see there being a fair oul battle to get out of Division 3 next year - Tipp will be very eager to get promotion after narrowly missing out this year, Westmeath will want to build on the championship momentum to bounce back up, while Wexford will probably be thinking that after beating a team who are up in Division 1 they should be having a crack at promotion . Clare too could be a right tricky team in the mix as well depending on who is available for them. Kildare need to get back out of there pronto if they want to start turning things around but it's not going to be a cakewalk by any means.

Dyr

K-9 wrote: »

Donegal aren't impressive this year, but how do you deal with an attacking threat that punishes fouls out in the 45/50 with more or less guaranteed points, and if you don't foul will eventually score anyway!

Tough but to crack!

Donegal are looking good this year to me, their quality players are no longer stuck with a system designed for peasant conscripts.

Dr Crippen

Yeah division three will be a difficult league but can also help a team build and develop. All those teams you mentioned can play and are difficult to beat, maybe not for Dublin though

On the question of committing to the squad, I don't think there are many players out there who commit with the thought in the back of their mind that they might head to the US. Mulhall and Hyland have been left on the wings for one reason or another since the league so they may feel a bit like a disposable commodity and in fairness I do not blame them one bit for taking the opportunity to go away and make some money.

The expectation in my county from fans does not match the results. If you look at our game plan at the very basic level, for instance the goal keeper. We have no variation on kick outs, no inventiveness. We play the ball from defense, hand passing it out, slowly. I thought they looked quite lethargic and predictable really against Dublin.

In my opinion Dublin, Donegal, Tyrone, Kerry for example have excellent keepers who essentially dictate the pace and tactics of play. Kildare do not and you can analyze that right from goal keeper through to forwards.

This is all purely my opinion though

cj maxx

Sure Donegal clubs have never won an official Ulster Club,and we've 2 AllIrelands, just as much as Down with a big history in lubs,

I think down have 5 all irelands ,

danganabu

STB. wrote: »

Diamuid Connolly 2008 (1 All Star)

Genuinely shocked at that stat, while he not a very likeable person, he is definitely one of the best players in teh country for the last 5-6 years, goes to show what a bit of a joke the All Stars are when comparing lads achievements.

DoctaDee

Diarmuid Connolly had never won an All Star which in itself speaks of the gombeenism of these awards

dcrosskid

DoctaDee wrote: »

Diarmuid Connolly has never won an All Star which in itself speaks of the gombeenism of these awards

Did he not win one last year?

DoctaDee

dcrosskid wrote: »

Did he not win one last year?

Yeah that didn't come across right :rolleyes: .. I was referring to him not getting an All Star in 2008

2moreMinutes

Bambi wrote: »

Donegal are looking good this year to me, their quality players are no longer stuck with a system designed for peasant conscripts.

Which quality players? Could you describe this system they were "stuck with" previously and how the "new" system is so dramatically different?

STB.

DoctaDee wrote: »

Yeah that didn't come across right :rolleyes: .. I was referring to him not getting an All Star in 2008

2008 is the year he starting playing County Football. He has won one All Star. And that is shocking. He'll have another this year. I would be very surprised if he is not among the top scorers. Dean Rock will probably run away with that.

STB.

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

S Cluxton, M Fitzsimons, R O'Carroll, P McMahon (0-01), J McCarthy, J Cooper, J McCaffrey, MD Macauley, C O'Sullivan, P Flynn (0-04), C Costello, D Connolly (0-05, 1f), A Brogan (0-02), E O'Gara, B Brogan (0-03, 1f)


"A lot of them are [younger] lads who haven't really had to go round the block, just thrust into an exceptional panel cruising through Leinster and easily competing in finals and semi finals. "

That is not the current Dublin panel. Eoghan O Gara done his cruciate and is out for the season for a start.

You got your answer. The Dublin team I quoted you have more AI's, NFL's and All Stars than your bunch of underachievers.

You are either on a wind up or just a complete spanner.

STB.

K-9 wrote: »

Anybody who tries to correlated AI Clubs and AI Seniors.........

Sure Donegal clubs have never won an official Ulster Club,and we've 2 AllIrelands, just as much as Down with a big history in lubs, and more than Derry, one of The strongest counties for clubs in the country.

Then you mention All Stars.

Karl Lacey had 3 and no AI medal!

AI Club medals (not provincial) ONTOP of their AI Championship medals.

None of your current players have even 2 All Ireland medals, let alone the handfull of NFL medals that the current Dublin team have.

Yes then I mentioned All Stars. Count them.

Donegal are underachievers for all the rubbish their fans talk. I suppose the reasoning is that if they say it enough it might come true. It might be better to stay in the bubble that the Donegal thread is. Some wake up call coming this year.

K-9

cjmc wrote: »

Sure Donegal clubs have never won an official Ulster Club,and we've 2 AllIrelands, just as much as Down with a big history in lubs,

I think down have 5 all irelands ,

I did clear that up after, 55 years is stretching the comparison a bit, particularly as there was no club championship then!

K-9

STB. wrote: »

AI Club medals (not provincial) ONTOP of their AI Championship medals.

None of your current players have even 2 All Ireland medals, let alone the handfull of NFL medals that the current Dublin team have.

Yes then I mentioned All Stars. Count them.

Donegal are underachievers for all the rubbish their fans talk. I suppose the reasoning is that if they say it enough it might come true. It might be better to stay in the bubble that the Donegal thread is. Some wake up call coming this year.

That's hilarious, we're under achievers, must make Dublin chronic under achievers and bottlers in that case.

2moreMinutes

It really is funny how Donegal seems to get under so many Dubs fans skin.

Nidgeweasel

STB. wrote: »

AI Club medals (not provincial) ONTOP of their AI Championship medals.

None of your current players have even 2 All Ireland medals, let alone the handfull of NFL medals that the current Dublin team have.

Yes then I mentioned All Stars. Count them.

Donegal are underachievers for all the rubbish their fans talk. I suppose the reasoning is that if they say it enough it might come true. It might be better to stay in the bubble that the Donegal thread is. Some wake up call coming this year.

Jesus man you seem awful rattled.

Is everything alright?

Nidgeweasel

STB. wrote: »

That is not the current Dublin panel. Eoghan O Gara done his cruciate and is out for the season for a start.

You got your answer. The Dublin team I quoted you have more AI's, NFL's and All Stars than your bunch of underachievers.

You are either on a wind up or just a complete spanner.

That's the line up during the Dublin/Donegal game last year that I've been specifically referring to.

My word.