The 2015 All Ireland Senior Football Championship

cj maxx

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

It is quite obivious that Donegal and Dublin are the best football teams in the country with Mayo and Cork the next best teams. One of these four are going to colect Sam

I wouldnt put cork in that bracket , mayo ( i think) are only slightly sbove donegal/ monghan and tyrone ( the latter two on a really good day ) not much in it . Dublin and kerry are outbon their own . Cork wont haveva say in it

Farmer Pudsey

cjmc wrote: »

I wouldnt put cork in that bracket , mayo ( i think) are only slightly sbove donegal/ monghan and tyrone ( the latter two on a really good day ) not much in it . Dublin and kerry are outbon their own . Cork wont haveva say in it

shhhh..........keep quite about *****

Dirty Dingus McGee

The game is much more defensive oriented these days in that teams actually make an effort to have some real defensive organisation yet scoring has pretty much stayed the same (if anything it's increased slightly) since the game went to 70 minutes which pretty much gives an indication that the skill level of the forwards has increased.Defenders skill has also increased as defenders these days are actually proper footballers who you wouldn't be terrified at the prospect of them having a shot at goals like you would have in the past.Even in the 990's I don't remember defenders being as skilful footballers as they are now.

The idea that players these days can't kick long range scores but they could in the past is pure nonsense.Scores from close to the 45 are rare because they are extremely difficult to execute and there definitely wasn't a huge amount of scores kicked from long range in the past but edited highlight showing only the best scores gives the impression those types of scores were much more common than the really were.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The gap is not as wide as you think I think it was a 60 minute game then as opposed to a 70 minute now. Allowing for that in 60-64 they would have scored 145 points.

When you take fitness and that the they were using a leather ball back then as opposed to a synethic now that will be fairly water resistance and it changes the perpective. Add to that that the consistancy of the the footballs nowdays by O'Neills means that the ball a player practices with at training is an exact replica of the ball that is thrown in every Sunday. Every leather ball was different leather would have slightly different thickness and imperfections. The modern inter county ground has a perfect surface and Croke Park is in a league of it own. 180 points was the total from 70-74 (still 30 minutes halves, I think), 80-84 was only 126, 148 points from 90-94, 139 points scored from 00-04.

There are lies damm lies and stastics. You have to factor in goals scored, the dominace of teams, winning margin. The amount of frees that were scored in games.

In practice if you put an average inter county player outside the 45 meter line with ten balls how many would he score, I gamble that the average intercounty player of the 60's and 70's would score more because that was how he warmed up.

Players in the past though when shooting for scores had oceans of time and space to do so.It was much easier in the past to be a good footballer as players were given the freedom to do what the wanted and all you had to do was get the better of the man marking you, now you have to get the better of an organised disciplined defence as well as your man marker.

If you put a modern forward into a team from the 1990's he'd completely destroy the defence and think he was in heaven due to the amount of time and space he'd have.

Farmer Pudsey

Nobody is saying that players are not fitter or faster now. Neither are we saying that a team from 20, 30 or 40 years ago would beat a team now. This is true of any sport whether it is football, hurling, soccer, rugby or hockey.

We are talking about skill level. Take freetaking when you go beyond about 30 metres there are less and less free takers capable of scoring. The reason is two fold first no youngster spends time taking frees off the ground and again kicking ability is declining. Goalies now are bought out to take frees from 40 yards and beyond as most out field players cannot take a long range free.

North of 32

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

We are talking about skill level. Take freetaking when you go beyond about 30 metres there are less and less free takers capable of scoring. The reason is two fold first no youngster spends time taking frees off the ground and again kicking ability is declining. Goalies now are bought out to take frees from 40 yards and beyond as most out field players cannot take a long range free.

I'd be willing to stake that kicking ability is the same as it always was.

Though I never understood why people think goalkeepers taking frees is a bad thing. He's a player just like any other. Why shouldn't he hit frees? In fact, given that kicking is one of their key skills, it makes sense for them to hit frees if they're good at them.

keane2097

All of the skills are better now than they've ever been. The opposite notion is laughable.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Nobody is saying that players are not fitter or faster now. Neither are we saying that a team from 20, 30 or 40 years ago would beat a team now. This is true of any sport whether it is football, hurling, soccer, rugby or hockey.

We are talking about skill level. Take freetaking when you go beyond about 30 metres there are less and less free takers capable of scoring. The reason is two fold first no youngster spends time taking frees off the ground and again kicking ability is declining. Goalies now are bought out to take frees from 40 yards and beyond as most out field players cannot take a long range free.

Which means goalies are much more skillful than they were in the past.If a goalkeeper is the best free taker on a team than he should be taking them.There are plenty of goo freetakers playing outfield but in most sports it would be seen as a good thing that the goalkeeper had such a high level of ball skills.

Its a waste of time for young players to spend time kicking off the ground as it isn't a required skill anymore and doesn't help any other part of their game at least practicing free from the hands will help their shooting from play.

Skill is abut executing at pace and speed been a junior b footballer can grasp all the skills of the game at a slow pace with nobody marking him but the faster the game is the more skilful a player must become.

Nidgeweasel

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

a junior b footballer can grasp all the skills of the game at a slow pace with nobody marking him

Plenty cant.

Farmer Pudsey

keane2097 wrote: »

All of the skills are better now than they've ever been. The opposite notion is laughable.

Alot of poster are mixing fitness levels with skill levels. How can a player be a better kicker of the ball if he is not practicing it. It is unlikly we will ever see really great free takers like Maurice Fitz, Mickey Sheehy, Jimmey keavney, Tony Mctague etc. The ability to kick frees from anywhere within 50 yards is gone at present

Ceist_Beag

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The ability to kick frees from anywhere within 50 yards is gone at present

Ehhh Michael Murphy aside of course!

bucketybuck

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Alot of poster are mixing fitness levels with skill levels. How can a player be a better kicker of the ball if he is not practicing it. It is unlikly we will ever see really great free takers like Maurice Fitz, Mickey Sheehy, Jimmey keavney, Tony Mctague etc. The ability to kick frees from anywhere within 50 yards is gone at present

And how many freekicks has Dean Rock missed this year? Or Murphy? Sheehan can't hit long range frees now? News to me, all those youtube videos about his monster free kicks must be fake.

Is Cluxton nailing a long range free kick to win the all Ireland somehow less skillful than Fitzgerald nailing some long range free kick? Why is that exactly?

There are loads of fantastic free kick takers in the game today, any suggestion that the skill of free kicks has gone is just rubbish. Just the opposite in fact, with the increased pressure put on players in possession these days having a good free kick taker is more vital than ever.

keane2097

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Alot of poster are mixing fitness levels with skill levels. How can a player be a better kicker of the ball if he is not practicing it. It is unlikly we will ever see really great free takers like Maurice Fitz, Mickey Sheehy, Jimmey keavney, Tony Mctague etc. The ability to kick frees from anywhere within 50 yards is gone at present

Which counties' training sessions are you being let into?

Dirty Dingus McGee

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Alot of poster are mixing fitness levels with skill levels. How can a player be a better kicker of the ball if he is not practicing it. It is unlikly we will ever see really great free takers like Maurice Fitz, Mickey Sheehy, Jimmey keavney, Tony Mctague etc. The ability to kick frees from anywhere within 50 yards is gone at present

Did you watch the Meath v Westmeath game last weekend?

Paul Sharry kicked 2 45's by taking about 2 steps and calmy slotting the ball over the bar without any effort.It was terriffic placekicking.

danganabu

keane2097 wrote: »

Five or six years ago he probably wasn't in the top 20 footballers in the country, get a grip.

I never said he was, try reading a post before you attack it

ionadnapokot

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Did you watch the Meath v Westmeath game last weekend?

Paul Sharry kicked 2 45's by taking about 2 steps and calmy slotting the ball over the bar without any effort.It was terriffic placekicking.

G'wan West Meath:pac:

keane2097

danganabu wrote: »

I never said he was, try reading a post before you attack it

danganabu wrote: »

he is definitely one of the best players in teh country for the last 5-6 years.

Typically when you say something has happened "for" time X, it means it has been the case throughout that period.

If your mother asks you how long the immersion has been turned on and you say "the immersion is definitely on for the last 5-6 hours" you will get a very different reaction from saying "the immersion has definitely been on for a small portion the last 5-6 hours"!

K-9

Now that's an insult, covers everything really.

danganabu

keane2097 wrote: »

Typically when you say something has happened "for" time X, it means it has been the case throughout that period.

If your mother asks you how long the immersion has been turned on and you say "the immersion is definitely on for the last 5-6 hours" you will get a very different reaction from saying "the immersion has definitely been on for a small portion the last 5-6 hours"!

Ok point taken, clearly what I meant was ''over the last 5-6 years''

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

I hope the Cork fans wave their increasingly controversial racist flags this weekend.

Fr Tod Umptious

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

I hope the Cork fans wave their increasingly controversial racist flags this weekend.

And there is a 4th of July themed weekend in Killarney this weekend, just to add to the tension.!

I wonder will the Sligo boys bring an ISIS flag to Hyde Park on the 19th.

keane2097

danganabu wrote: »

Ok point taken, clearly what I meant was ''over the last 5-6 years''

No problem, the snark of "try reading the post" raised my hackles and then I thought of the immersion thing and couldn't help myself :pac:

He's definitely been up there with the best of what we've seen at times. Amazing performances in Club Championship with Vincent's I think really propelled him to a new level in peoples' eyes.

That said it's a little hard to judge Dublin's players when teams in Leinster have been rolling over to have their bellies tickled the last two years. He was pretty good against Donegal last year but probably not at the same jaw-dropping level we saw in easier games.

No doubt about his quality having him at the top level of players, but as to whether he's the best footballer in the country as you hear put about I'd still have some question marks. We need to see him in a few more really tough games to judge I think.

nice_guy80

I can't see Roscommon winning today

but you never know

keeponhurling

Big test for Clare today v Longford.

Given the improvements over the last few years, we are now at a stage where this is a game we'd be expecting to win, rather than just hoping.

The injury problems are clearing up, although of course Podge and McInerney are still huge losses.

G'wan the Banner !

ArnoldJRimmer

Really looking forward to Cavan v Roscommon, think home advantage will swing it.

K-9

Kildare not impression going on radio reports. Offaly played basically a one handed McNamee, seemed a strange decision.

TCDStudent1

Some start to the Roscommon Cavan match!

K-9

You jinxed it, gone very scrappy.

1-4 to 1-3, Roscommon leading.

Dirty Dingus McGee

K-9 wrote: »

Kildare not impression going on radio reports. Offaly played basically a one handed McNamee, seemed a strange decision.

He had one hand almost completely bandaged and wasn't really able catch the ball unless it was laid on a plate for him.He didn't really make much of a contribution and I would think he was selected purely for morale as the rest of the team would have felt a lot better with him being on the field even if he was inhibited by his injury.

Dirty Dingus McGee

The game is a bit scrappy but it still reasonably entertaining nothing between the 2 teams and it will go down write to the wire.

Gearoid McKiernan is a beast he's had an excellent first half.He looks the complete footballeer.

Boom__Boom

Cavan Ross started off on fire but quality dropped a fair bit.

I know Roscommon are missing a lot but very hard not to see them struggle in Division 1 next year.

I do think Roscommon are likely to be the winners here as they are doing just that bit better in terms of creating chances.
Cavan have been very efficient in terms of turning opportunities into scores. (only think they have 2 wides)

Boom__Boom

Clare 1-7 Longford 1-6

Clare have hit 9 wides compared to Longford's one.

K-9

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

He had one hand almost completely bandaged and wasn't really able catch the ball unless it was laid on a plate for him.He didn't really make much of a contribution and I would think he was selected purely for morale as the rest of the team would have felt a lot better with him being on the field even if he was inhibited by his injury.

You'd have to wonder did Offaly not have a better, fit, 2 handed player available, maybe bring McNamee on later.

Shine is a joy to watch, great foot passing.

Tough straight red for me, was a yellow card for me.

TCDStudent1

I could only listen to first half of Roscommon - Cavan on radio.

Watching the 2nd half and it is a huge disappointment. Really poor quality and you can clearly see these 2 teams are a few notches down from the top teams in the country. Players have so much time on the ball. And they don't utilise it. Cavan's defence is truly awful!

Boom__Boom

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

I could only listen to first half of Roscommon - Cavan on radio.

Watching the 2nd half and it is a huge disappointment. Really poor quality and you can clearly see these 2 teams are a few notches down from the top teams in the country. Players have so much time on the ball. And they don't utilise it. Cavan's defence is truly awful!

The quality actually picked up a touch in the 2nd half - there were a couple of patches in the first half that were just error-strewn by both sides.

Ros look fairly comfortable here - it's very hard to see Cavan closing a 6 point gap

K-9

Cavan have been very disappointing, though that's a nice point, 4 in it.

Roscommon seem to relish playing Cavan though.

Any update on Clare?

keeponhurling

Level in Ennis
Longford 2-8, Clare 1-11

spiritcrusher

Cavan's tackling has to be some of the worst I've seen. Flappy arms stuff.

TCDStudent1

spiritcrusher wrote: »

Cavan's tackling has to be some of the worst I've seen. Flappy arms stuff.

But Roscommon arent good enough to punish them for being so poor..... this match should have been over a long time ago

Boom__Boom

spiritcrusher wrote: »

Cavan's tackling has to be some of the worst I've seen. Flappy arms stuff.

Yeah - they have been very poor on this today and have given away a couple of cheapish frees - normally they tend to be pretty decent in terms of their tackling technique

Nidgeweasel

spiritcrusher wrote: »

Cavan's tackling has to be some of the worst I've seen. Flappy arms stuff.

Their tackling is atrocious. So poor against Monaghan in particular.

keeponhurling

Longford 2-12, Clare 1-12 final score

Clare hit lots of wides and left it behind them really.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Decent enough match overall, it's just not got real championship bite to it and if it's as humid as the commentators are saying then that probably explains the lack of intensity.

The athmosphere on the TV is poor although I suspect that might be due to RTE's equipment as much as anything.

marco_polo

keeponhurling wrote: »

Longford 2-12, Clare 1-12 final score

Clare hit lots of wides and left it behind them really.

Very disappointing even against 14 men near the end we couldn't kick on and grab control of the game.

TCDStudent1

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Decent enough match overall, it's just not got real championship bite to it and if it's as humid as the commentators are saying then that probably explains the lack of intensity.

The athmosphere on the TV is poor although I suspect that might be due to RTE's equipment as much as anything.

I felt it was an awful match lacking any kind of intensity! However, towards the end it showed a close up of one of the Roscommon forwards and he looked exhausted so probably the heat had something to do with it.

Boom__Boom

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Decent enough match overall, it's just not got real championship bite to it and if it's as humid as the commentators are saying then that probably explains the lack of intensity.

The athmosphere on the TV is poor although I suspect that might be due to RTE's equipment as much as anything.

Are you considering Tommy Carr part of the TV equipment ? One of the wonders of the modern age is how RTE keep giving him games.

Boom__Boom

marco_polo wrote: »

Very disappointing even against 14 men near the end we couldn't kick on and grab control of the game.

Sounds like a bad loss for Clare especially at home - they were still missing a chunk of their better forwards with injury and looks like it hurt them with all the wides.

Dirty Dingus McGee

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

I felt it was an awful match lacking any kind of intensity! However, towards the end it showed a close up of one of the Roscommon forwards and he looked exhausted so probably the heat had something to do with it.

There was no intensity alright and it was more like an O'Byrne cup game in the way it was played but there were some nice passages of play and some good scores kicked and some nice football to admire.

I enjoyed it a hell of a lot more than the Donegal Derry match last week.

Duckworth_Luas

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Are you considering Tommy Carr part of the TV equipment ? One of the wonders of the modern age is how RTE keep giving him games.

Carr's constant negativity was doing my head in.

He also needs to learn to shut up, he's not the commentator.

Boom__Boom

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

I felt it was an awful match lacking any kind of intensity! However, towards the end it showed a close up of one of the Roscommon forwards and he looked exhausted so probably the heat had something to do with it.

The weather has been very variable/strange in different parts of the county the last few days- the intensity definitely wasn't there in terms of championship knockout - especially when you consider these 2 sides have a lot of recent history.