The 2015 All Ireland Senior Football Championship

bruschi

Jayop wrote: »

Cheers for digging that out. Not great but not too bad either. I'm sure loads will call it a disgrace but what can you do about that?

it validates Parkinsons view that he showed no remorse over it all. I think some of the reaction he is getting would be far more subdued had he acted much differently. Canavan made remarks on Matt Coopers show insinuating that he dived before too, and whilst he did not apologise outright (not that he needed to so long after the events), he did try explain why he did it and said he is embarrassed about it. McCann seems far from embarrassed based on that, and more revelling in it than remorseful.

K-9

Seems to be a comment taking the piss out of his hair, least he has a sense of humour.

Srs business.

Jayop

K-9 wrote: »

Seems to be a comment taking the piss out of his hair, least he has a sense of humour.

Srs business.

That would be my take on it. He probably should have avoided the situation by tweeting nothing.

Maybe the gaa could compromise, let him play but only in sack cloth?

Peist2007

bruschi wrote: »

it validates Parkinsons view that he showed no remorse over it all. I think some of the reaction he is getting would be far more subdued had he acted much differently. Canavan made remarks on Matt Coopers show insinuating that he dived before too, and whilst he did not apologise outright (not that he needed to so long after the events), he did try explain why he did it and said he is embarrassed about it. McCann seems far from embarrassed based on that, and more revelling in it than remorseful.

Remorse? For diving for a free? Lol

bruschi

bruschi wrote: »

it validates Parkinsons view that he showed no remorse over it all.

Remorse was a strong word.

He just should not have revelled in cheating and feigning injury to get an opponent sent off.

Parkinson also noted how his cheating went so far as to wait for physio treatment on his faked injury. I mean...come on.

No wonder the GAA believe it discredited the game.

bruschi

Peist2007 wrote: »

Remorse? For diving for a free? Lol

so you think its ok what he did then and shouldnt be embarrassed about it?

Plus he didnt dive for a free, he dived to get a player sent off.

bruschi

Deleted User wrote: »

Remorse was a strong word.

He just should not have revelled in cheating and feigning injury to get an opponent sent off.

Parkinson also noted how his cheating went so far as to wait for physio treatment on his faked injury. I mean...come on.

No wonder the GAA believe it discredited the game.

remorse; to have regret or guilt over a wrong committed. Seems apt to me. Embarrassed would be another that would suit. In any case, its emantics over a word. McCann clearly didnt give a crap about what he did, and fair enough if he is happy to go that way. Doesnt mean he wont escape criticism for it. As Jayo says above, he'd be better off having said or done nothing in the aftermath of it.

Conor52

K-9 wrote: »

Seems to be a comment taking the piss out of his hair, least he has a sense of humour.

Srs business.

He should be made shave his head as punishment and be banned from using hair gel for a year. That'll teach him

bruschi

bruschi wrote: »

remorse; to have regret or guilt over a wrong committed. Seems apt to me. Embarrassed would be another that would suit. In any case, its emantics over a word. McCann clearly didnt give a crap about what he did, and fair enough if he is happy to go that way. Doesnt mean he wont escape criticism for it. As Jayo says above, he'd be better off having said or done nothing in the aftermath of it.

In fairness to him, he possibly has no idea that outside the Tyrone set up, many do not regard cheating to get an opponent sent off as something to celebrate and enjoy. His reaction betrays a compete innocence about that possibility.

Peist2007

bruschi wrote: »

so you think its ok what he did then and shouldnt be embarrassed about it?

Plus he didnt dive for a free, he dived to get a player sent off.

No, i think it wasnt ok and i want diving stamped out of the GAA. Too fast a game and too many players on the pitch for one referee to be able to deal with it properly. Diving is something that should be stamped out by the players themselves.

However, remorse is a word i would only use in a sporting context if someone seriously hurt another in the course of a game. Using it for this incident is laughable.

Peist2007

Peist2007 wrote: »

However, remorse is a word i would only use in a sporting context if someone seriously hurt another in the course of a game. Using it for this incident is laughable.

Bruschi has also proposed the word "embarrassed" as an alternative.

Do you think he should be embarrassed about cheating to get an opponent sent off, having the phsyio come out to deal with an "injury" he was faking?

It seems like a pretty good word to me.

keane2097

Sorry lads, if ye have an issue with me paraphrasing Wooly using the word "remorse" for regret, guilt, culpability etc - you know, synonyms - I don't really think we're really debating at the elevated level we might aspire to.

I'm gonna unsubscribe and leave ye at it for a while, if someone comes up with a list of approved pundits and the words they're allowed use give me a shout.

Peist2007

Deleted User wrote: »

Bruschi has also proposed the word "embarrassed" as an alternative.

Do you think he should be embarrassed about cheating to get an opponent sent off, having the phsyio come out to deal with an "injury" he was faking?

It seems like a pretty good word to me.

I dont know. Does Ronaldo feel embarrassed when he does it? Or James O'Donoghue when he does it? Or Ashley Young? Or Steven Gerrard? Or Sean Cavanagh? Big issue isn't it?

Embarrassment is a completely different emotion to remorse not to mention a different word. Precision with language is......never mind

seligehgit

TBH I don't see what the big issue is with the word remorse.What Tiernan McCann did was totally wrong and he should express remorse for same.

bruschi

so we're discussing the definition of "deep regret or guilt for a wrong committed". whatever. never fails to amaze me at what people will debate on here.

Jippo

Peist2007 wrote: »

Does ... feel embarrassed when he does it? Or James O'Donoghue when he does it?

Why do you and others keep peddling the myth that JOD is a persistent diver when there is not one shred of evidence for it.

He dived in the AIF against Donegal near the end of the game and I am completely embarrassed by that but when else did he dive?

Don't say Cork game or anything without a link to the actual incident. All of these other diving incidents are in YT but there is no such clip of JOD... because it didn't happen.

Peist2007

bruschi wrote: »

so we're discussing the definition of "deep regret or guilt for a wrong committed". whatever. never fails to amaze me at what people will debate on here.

I'm not, for what its worth. I know what remorse is and i know the context it is generally used. I am discussing why the regret needs to be "deep". It wasnt good what he did but he didnt inflict any physical harm on anyone. I just dont get the handwringing.

Peist2007

Jippo wrote: »

Why do you and others keep peddling the myth that JOD is a persistent diver when there is not one shred of evidence for it.

He dived in the AIF against Donegal near the end of the game and I am completely embarrassed by that but when else did he dive?

Don't say Cork game or anything without a link to the actual incident. All of these other diving incidents are in YT but there is no such clip of JOD... because it didn't happen.

He went down holding his face against Cork this year looking for a free when nothing happened to him. I watched the match on tv and saw it. Put that with the dive you reference above and it is enough in my eyes to be able to now say with reason that James O'Donoghue takes a dive from time to time.

Ps i cant be arsed going looking for a link for that. I am at work. Disagree with me all you like, not bothered

Hammer Archer

Mod:
Guys if you want to argue about the definition of words or what situations they can be used in, then there's a Linguistics forum ye can head off to.
This thread is going mind-bogglingly off topic.

Jippo

Peist2007 wrote: »

He went down holding his face against Cork this year looking for a free when nothing happened to him. I watched the match on tv and saw it. Put that with the dive you reference above and it is enough in my eyes to be able to now say with reason that James O'Donoghue takes a dive from time to time.

Ps i cant be arsed going looking for a link for that. I am at work. Disagree with me all you like, not bothered

Here it is at 1.40 he takes a clatter on the side of the head from Kerrigan. If you can't see I don't know what to say to you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQbxpYRgwr8

BonnieSituation

Peist2007 wrote: »

He went down holding his face against Cork this year looking for a free when nothing happened to him. I watched the match on tv and saw it. Put that with the dive you reference above and it is enough in my eyes to be able to now say with reason that James O'Donoghue takes a dive from time to time.

Ps i cant be arsed going looking for a link for that. I am at work. Disagree with me all you like, not bothered

And the penalty?

Jippo

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And the penalty?

How is the penalty a dive? What is wrong with ye people?

http://www.balls.ie/gaa/kerry-penalty-video/299735

Peist2007

Jippo wrote: »

Here it is at 1.40 he takes a clatter on the side of the head from Kerrigan. If you can't see I don't know what to say to you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQbxpYRgwr8

Yep that's it. I would call that a complete dive.

Peist2007

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And the penalty?

Never a penalty. There was contact going on so i wouldnt have issue with how he acted there.

D'Agger

Peist2007 wrote: »

Yep that's it. I would call that a complete dive.

You can see he takes a clatter to the face, Kerrigan comes in with a flailing hand, doesn't get the ball, connects with James face

To call it a complete dive is incredibly wide of the mark, to the point where you're either on a wind up or acting the ostrich

Peist2007

D'Agger wrote: »

You can see he takes a clatter to the face, Kerrigan comes in with a flailing hand, doesn't get the ball, connects with James face

To call it a complete dive is incredibly wide of the mark, to the point where you're either on a wind up or acting the ostrich

I wouldnt call that contact "a clatter" at all. Absolutely nothing in it. A complete dive in my opinion.

Jippo

Peist2007 wrote: »

Yep that's it. I would call that a complete dive.

Well you would be wrong.

BonnieSituation

Jippo wrote: »

Well you would be wrong.

In your opinion?

Peist2007

Jippo wrote: »

Well you would be wrong.

In your opinion. The contact was minimal and he was down like a shot. He made more contact himself with the Cork defenders face when running than Kerrigan ever did. James takes a dive. You've admitted it yourself.

Jippo

BonnieSituation wrote: »

In your opinion?

No. He got hit in the face. That isn't opinion that is an objective fact.

Jippo

Peist2007 wrote: »

In your opinion. The contact was minimal and he was down like a shot. He made more contact himself with the Cork defenders face when running than Kerrigan ever did. James takes a dive. You've admitted it yourself.

JOD did dive in the the AIF certainly but I haven't seen it since or before in my recollection.

Peist2007

Jippo wrote: »

No. He got his in the face. That isn't opinion that is an objective fact.

We're not debating whether there was contact.

"He got in his face" - lol

Jippo

Peist2007 wrote: »

We're not debating whether there was contact.

"He got in his face" - lol

Sorry for my typo. More accurately, he got hit on the side of the head.

Peist2007

Jippo wrote: »

Sorry for my typo. More accurately, he got hit on the side of the head.

He didnt get hit on the side of the head. Watch it again

Jippo

Peist2007 wrote: »

He didnt get hit on the side of the head. Watch it again

If you are struggling to find the moment he received the blow, watch the clip and watch Kerrigan's left arm:



https://youtu.be/oQbxpYRgwr8?t=103

BonnieSituation

We're talking about the dive he made to get the penalty against Cork aren't we? I wouldn't have it that Jippo is changing the subject to talk about a different incident.

Imma leave this one here while we're at it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHuU3EdJ1NQ

D'Agger

Peist2007 wrote: »

I wouldnt call that contact "a clatter" at all. Absolutely nothing in it. A complete dive in my opinion.

Peist2007 wrote: »

We're not debating whether there was contact.

"He got in his face" - lol

So there's contact with his face, but because he went down it's a dive - because god knows, a belt to the face isn't painful, especially coming from the blindside.

Then there's the laughable definition of the contact "I wouldn't call that a clatter at all" - so now whether JOD is a diver or not comes down to your perception of the level of force behind the contact?

Again, contact to the head.

Jippo wrote: »

If you are struggling to find the moment he received the blow, watch the clip and watch Kerrigan's left arm:



https://youtu.be/oQbxpYRgwr8?t=103

Take a look at the photo - where the ball is, where Kerrigans arm is - he may have attempted to go for the ball but he was a way off it & caught James in the head. It is 100% not a dive.

BonnieSituation

Jippo wrote: »

The penalty wasn't a dive ffs. Are you retarded or something? It wasn't a penalty either IMO by the way.

I have said on here that AOM dived but we are not talking about that. I am ashamed that AOM did that. It was seven years ago and he made a mistake.

AOM, Shields and McCann (others) have made very bad and very unsporting dives and there is no arguing that.

I am railing against the view that JOD is somehow a persistent diver. He took a dive in the AIF but that is it as far as I know.

JOD is an amateur player, currently being plagued by injury problems, and it does annoy me that this label is being put on him. You can say he dived after the AIF but to insinuate that he is at it all the time is deeply unfair.

Yes you could say I am butthurt --- I find this quite unfair and unsettling.

My reasoning for posting the O'Mahony dive is to demonstrate the futility of this whole row.

Everyone here has become more entrenched in their view on McCann.

His actions were disgraceful. But to single him out to seemingly save Duffy's bacon (heaven forbid he's getting the AIF gig as he's not getting the SFs now) and as Harte has rightly stated, start a witchhunt on McCann and Tyrone as if they are some sort of evil on the game is utterly appalling.

This is the major talking point.

And people should move on from the ehys and wherefores of what MCCann did (deplorable) to what could be his punishment (deplorable).

Why are you butthurt?

harpsman

D'Agger wrote: »

So there's contact with his face, but because he went down it's a dive - because god knows, a belt to the face isn't painful, especially coming from the blindside.

Then there's the laughable definition of the contact "I wouldn't call that a clatter at all" - so now whether JOD is a diver or not comes down to your perception of the level of force behind the contact?

Again, contact to the head.



Take a look at the photo - where the ball is, where Kerrigans arm is - he may have attempted to go for the ball but he was a way off it & caught James in the head. It is 100% not a dive.

Show me the still where Kerrigans hand makes contact withthe face.

Cos without that its basically inconclusive.

I am enjoying the tactic of "throw anything and everything out about anyone else and any county at any time, from years ago, completely made up, it doesn't matter, agendas in the media, everyone being for Kerry...whatever...just don't concede that what the player did was a disgrace and deserves a sanction greater than that handed to his opponent".

Jippo

BonnieSituation wrote: »

My reasoning for posting the O'Mahony dive is to demonstrate the futility of this whole row.

Everyone here has become more entrenched in their view on McCann.

His actions were disgraceful. But to single him out to seemingly save Duffy's bacon (heaven forbid he's getting the AIF gig as he's not getting the SFs now) and as Harte has rightly stated, start a witchhunt on McCann and Tyrone as if they are some sort of evil on the game is utterly appalling.

This is the major talking point.

And people should move on from the ehys and wherefores of what MCCann did (deplorable) to what could be his punishment (deplorable).

Why are you butthurt?

I agree with you 100% on this.

But that isn't what I am talking about at all. I am talking about JOD and claims that he is a persistent diver. I am saying in particular he did not dive in the Cork game.

Jippo

harpsman wrote: »

Show me the still where Kerrigans hand makes contact withthe face.

Cos without that its basically inconclusive.

Use your eyes... in particular follow Kerrigan's left arm.

There is a still above but it is hard to get a good quality image from an impact.

BonnieSituation

Jippo wrote: »

I agree with you 100% on this.

But that isn't what I am talking about at all. I am talking about JOD and claims that he is a persistent diver. I am saying in particular he did not dive in the Cork game.

You could be right that JOD is unfairly targetted. Off the top of my head we have 3 high profile incidents he was involved in in the last year. Whether you think they were dives or not are all subjective.

But there are less infamous incidents in every game of him acting up so that doesn't help. He's a moany little **** at the best of times.

Same goes for Star same goes for Gooch but they don't have his reputation.

(This should not be construed as a Kerry witchhunt. Star and Gooch are mentioned as they play on the same team and have been around longer and don't have the same rep as JOD)

Jippo

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You could be right that JOD is unfairly targetted. Off the top of my head we have 3 high profile incidents he was involved in in the last year. Whether you think they were dives or not are all subjective.

But there are less infamous incidents in every game of him acting up so that doesn't help. He's a moany little **** at the best of times.

Same goes for Star same goes for Gooch but they don't have his reputation.

(This should not be construed as a Kerry witchhunt. Star and Gooch are mentioned as they play on the same team and have been around longer and don't have the same rep as JOD)

Would you care to mention what the three incidents were?

If you find him a moany little ****, well that is your prerogative (I think he is a breath of fresh air), but I have to admit a dislike of KD makes a lot more sense to me.

D'Agger

harpsman wrote: »

Show me the still where Kerrigans hand makes contact withthe face.

Cos without that its basically inconclusive.

It's on this very page - it's getting to the stage where I'll need to provide a run through the video showing metrics for speed, force, physics and such otherwise it's inconclusive

Seriously - it's there to be seen, It's incredibly obvious

rebel girl 15

This whole thread has become a shambles, I'm locking it until we can clean it up a bit and hand out any cards necessary

rebel girl 15

I've reopened this, but if there is any messing about, it is straight bans at this stage

Jayop

So McCann eh?? (only joking)


Really looking forward to this one now. Naturally not confident of getting a result, but if we can stop Kerry getting a big early lead it should be a very competitive game. If Kerry do come out and get 5/6 points up early then we'll have to push on and risk getting hammered at the back.

henke

Kerry favourites for me for sure based on their current form but I think Tyrone will give them their fill of it and I don't think it would be the biggest shock in the world if they did turn them over. I think this will be a close and Kerry to win by a couple of points. Would like it if Tyrone done it though.

cj maxx

Dont know where to stand on this one :0
Should be for the ulster team ( but the tyrone game still hurts for a monaghan man ) plus i'll be in kerry for the game ! and she's a cracker )
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