The 2015 All Ireland Senior Football Championship

seligehgit

Kalyke wrote: »

Will the weather will have an impact on today's game?

It would imagine it would definitely favour Tyrone,likely to be a lower scoring game.Possibly will lead to a more dour,even more defensively minded game.It still shouldn't affect the result, the Kingdom should prevail.

Fr Tod Umptious

Kalyke wrote: »

An absolute classic!

Possibility the most overrated game in the history of the GAA.

There was a downpour of historical proportions and both teams were not as willing to commit themselves with the intensity we usually see because the conditions did not allow for it.

Thus we got a fairly open free flowing game, a bit like a league game.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Possibility the most overrated game in the history of the GAA.

There was a downpour of historical proportions and both teams were not as willing to commit themselves with the intensity we usually see because the conditions did not allow for it.

Thus we got a fairly open free flowing game, a bit like a league game.

Completely over rated game.Nice football played but it had zero intensity.

Kerry were only tipping along and doing enough to win.As soon as Galway went in front after Joe Bergin scored a goal in the second half Kerry just eased up another gear and won with a degree of comfort.Kerry could have won that game by as much as they wanted to.

aveytare

Yeah agree about Kerry tipping along and doing enough to win. Didn't feel like a classic at all.

Hammer Archer

Match thread for today's game here.

ionadnapokot

I would like to see Kerry really have a cut at Tyrone from the get go. With allot of the spotlight on Tyrone it would be interesting to see how they cope with a fast and furious start from Kerry.
Have the wet gear packed.
http://www.met.ie/latest/rainfall_radar.asp

Peist2007

Peist2007 wrote: »

Tyrone are going to get absolutely shafted on Sunday. You heard it here first

Like death and taxes

Dyr

Peist2007 wrote: »

Like death and taxes

And crap goalies

Peist2007

Bambi wrote: »

And crap goalies

Yes but a team can have a bad goalkeeper. Or a good one. Sometimes the bad goalkepper plays well. Sometimes a good goalkeeper plays badly. What you should not expect is that the ref will shaft you on every big decision. Which is what happened yesterday, as predicted. Thanks for the strawman though

Dyr

Peist2007 wrote: »

Yes but a team can have a bad goalkeeper. Or a good one. Sometimes the bad goalkepper plays well. Sometimes a good goalkeeper plays badly. What you should not expect is that the ref will shaft you on every big decision. Which is what happened yesterday, as predicted. Thanks for the strawman though

It's the risk you take when you rely on working the ref for the win, sometimes a bad ref will spot a good dive and you'll rue not converting that soft peno he awarded earlier.

D'Agger

Peist2007 wrote: »

What you should not expect is that the ref will shaft you on every big decision. Which is what happened yesterday

Nah...that's simply not true

Peist2007

Bambi wrote: »

It's the risk you take when you rely on working the ref for the win, sometimes a bad ref will spot a good dive and you'll rue not converting that soft peno he awarded earlier.

Tyrone werent relying on "working the ref for the win" - complete nonsense.

Peist2007

D'Agger wrote: »

Nah...that's simply not true

Nah, you're simply incorrect. It is true

Peist2007

Donaghy's 45 that never was when level in last min of first half - 45 goes over the bar for a Kerry half time lead.

Tackle on Gooch was a yellow card and not a black card - if we are going to be applying the rules.

Tackle one minute later was a black card and not a yellow card - if we are applying the rules.

Tyrone penalty was a black card offence.

Tyrone penalty not given which was a penalty.

Between the 45th and 60th minute of yesterday's game i counted 3 black card offences not given against Kerry (the one referred to above included).

All of the above decisions were crucial and affected the game. And shafted Tyrone.

Poor_old_gill

Peist2007 wrote: »

Donaghy's 45 that never was when level in last min of first half - 45 goes over the bar for a Kerry half time lead.

Tackle on Gooch was a yellow card and not a black card - if we are going to be applying the rules.

Tackle one minute later was a black card and not a yellow card - if we are applying the rules.

Tyrone penalty was a black card offence.

Tyrone penalty not given which was a penalty.

Between the 45th and 60th minute of yesterday's game i counted 3 black card offences not given against Kerry (the one referred to above included).

All of the above decisions were crucial and affected the game. And shafted Tyrone.

Most of that is baloney but don't let the facts get in the way of a good sob story
What were the 3 black card offences?

Tyrone should have had a man sent off, kerry should have had a free in the lead up to the penalty.
I'm not sure if it even should have been a penalty- who fouled him? Who would you have given a black card to? He was going down no matter in the play.

The second penalty incident? Watch the Sunday Game where McGuigan even admits that he doesnt think it was a penalty and that lad couldn't be more biased.

Tyrone should have had a man sent off for a late hit on Gooch. If we are talking about intentional cynical play- what about McCarrons pull down on JOD which won Kerry a score-able free in the second half? Surely that was cynical and deserved a yellow card as he intentionally pulled a player down off the ball.

Peist2007

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Most of that is baloney but don't let the facts get in the way of a good sob story
What were the 3 black card offences?

Tyrone should have had a man sent off, kerry should have had a free in the lead up to the penalty.
I'm not sure if it even should have been a penalty- who fouled him? Who would you have given a black card to? He was going down no matter in the play.

The second penalty incident? Watch the Sunday Game where McGuigan even admits that he doesnt think it was a penalty and that lad couldn't be more biased.

Tyrone should have had a man sent off for a late hit on Gooch. If we are talking about intentional cynical play- what about McCarrons pull down on JOD which won Kerry a score-able free in the second half? Surely that was cynical and deserved a yellow card as he intentionally pulled a player down off the ball.

Now that is a load of baloney. I can see things with my eyes thanks. Even get the benefit of replays. O'Mahoney pulled the guy down, clear as day.
I watched the Sunday Game and was waiting for the evidence that it was such a great call but i didnt see it. O'Mahoney was all over him. I would take Sean Cavanagh's post-match comments more seriously as he was standing 5 yards away.

The first penalty was a clear penalty - you say you watched the Sunday Game. Did you? Because they showed clearly how it was a penalty with a closeup shot of the kerry player fouling. I'm guessing you ignored that

The late hit on Gooch was a red card, i agree. However the game was over then and the damage had been done. As McGuigan more or less pointed out when he tried to defend the Tyrone lad.

I dont expect anything sensible back so dont be worrying!

DoctaDee

MOD - This thread will not descend into the spiteful vitriol we witnesed post Tiernan McCann incident. That forced the thread closure for a number of days while mods had to sift thru posts warranting Warnings, Infractions and Bans. It will not happen this time - take it that if you have a post reported or a post deemed inappropriate you will be banned until the Championship season is over. Thanks

DanielODonnell

Tyrone were just not ruthless enough, certainily not as ruthless as Eoghan MacNeill was, the Inishowen-Donegal man they are named after

Poor_old_gill

Peist2007 wrote: »

Now that is a load of baloney. I can see things with my eyes thanks. Even get the benefit of replays. O'Mahoney pulled the guy down, clear as day.
I watched the Sunday Game and was waiting for the evidence that it was such a great call but i didnt see it. O'Mahoney was all over him. I would take Sean Cavanagh's post-match comments more seriously as he was standing 5 yards away.

The first penalty was a clear penalty - you say you watched the Sunday Game. Did you? Because they showed clearly how it was a penalty with a closeup shot of the kerry player fouling. I'm guessing you ignored that

The late hit on Gooch was a red card, i agree. However the game was over then and the damage had been done. As McGuigan more or less pointed out when he tried to defend the Tyrone lad.

I dont expect anything sensible back so dont be worrying!

You haven't backed up your 3 black cards claim and I have shown you that the second penalty was not a penalty- you have also refused to address any points that show your assertion of bias against Tyrone to be incorrect.

You don't expect anything sensible back? Sorry for constantly letting down your expectations.

When did AOM pull someone down? The penalty? Yes I did watch the Sunday Game and it showed the Tyrone lad with a handful of AOM's jersey!

I dont see what you are getting from coming on here making a series of false claims and then failing to address points made against you but whatever floats your boat mate.

Onwards and upwards- we might see ye in the final this year and good luck against the Dubs

homerjay2005

the obsession with Black cards is getting really annoying. people seem to forget that you can bring on a player and some may argue that the lads on the bench are as strong for Kerry as the lads on the pitch.

Kerrydude1981

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the obsession with Black cards is getting really annoying. people seem to forget that you can bring on a player and some may argue that the lads on the bench are as strong for Kerry as the lads on the pitch.

Thats it,

Enright should have got the black card yesterday but then Aidan O Mahony would have probably came on for him so he would have worked out in our favour and would have made the team stronger.

McNab should have got the black card as well for the late tackle on Cooper

DoctaDee

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the obsession with Black cards is getting really annoying. people seem to forget that you can bring on a player and some may argue that the lads on the bench are as strong for Kerry as the lads on the pitch.

I see it at club games here all the time now - the opposition line is more interested in the lad getting a black than getting booked - I suppose tho in club football you generally have the strongest 15 on the pitch from the get go so there is a bigger sense of depriving the other team

Fr Tod Umptious

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Thats it,

Enright should have got the black card yesterday but then Aidan O Mahony would have probably came on for him so he would have worked out in our favour and would have made the team stronger.

McNab should have got the black card as well for the late tackle on Cooper

McNabs was a red rather than a black.

The black card is very clearly defined in the rules.
But people now seem to think that every bad tackle is a black.
It's not.

Stoner

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

McNab should have got the black card as well for the late tackle on Cooper

McNabbs was a definite red IMO, he went out to hurt him and was the worst incident on the game IMO, talking about it not having an impact is flawed. It could impact on the player playing in the next game due to suspension or a serious injury to a player we all know is a little shaky at the moment and him missing a final.

However, I'm certain the other event with Gooch was a a bad mistimed tackle not a drag down, so it was either yellow or red depending on how the ref saw it, but never a black. It was not what black cards are for, the rules already had that type of incident covered.

Enrights was a definite black imo, he dragged him down, was he not MOTM against Cork? he was nominated anyway. I don't understand all this talk about how these decisions don't have an impact because the man on the bench is better, if he was better he'd start, you or I might think hes better but we don't manage Kerry. Enright was/is on for an All Star this year IMO for his part in keeping Hurley and O'Neil so quiet in the cork games.

Lets be honest here, Kerry are supposed to have a slightly flaky back-line, so we are told anyway. How can they have one or as I'm told here two men on the bench that are better then the two they started.
Am I the only one that thinks that if Kerry had two better defenders that they'd start them?

We don't pick the team or see how lads are going in training, but from what we hear this Kerry team is picked on form and how they are going in training, therefore it stands to reason that before this game Enright and MOS were going better than the lads on the bench.
This blind defense of a county team damages all the good arguments that Kerry have for winning yesterday when they were simply better overall than Tyrone.

Some of the Kerry lads are correctly calling Enrights yellow as a black, but the argument that it doesn't matter is seriously flawed IMO.
MOS may have been making mistakes recently but he was still selected, he offers huge experience to the side.

Enights tackle on Harte was every bit a cynical as Sean Cavanaghs on McHugh

(and tackles other lads from other counties have made)

But black cards can impact on your substitution options, force you to sub a man you were not going to possibly impact on your next game.

Saying otherwise makes no sense, it's getting old now, black cards do make a difference, not getting one helps your team in that game and possibly the next game.
Kerry didn't start yesterday with two men on the bench that were considered better than two they started.

Poor_old_gill

I wholeheartedly agree with Enright's tackle being a black card but and Marc's too but surely McCarron's pull down of JOD off the ball is a cynical attempt to prevent a player from making a run- if it was a free then it was a black card by the rules

Stoner

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

I wholeheartedly agree with Enright's tackle being a black card but and Marc's too but surely McCarron's pull down of JOD off the ball is a cynical attempt to prevent a player from making a run- if it was a free then it was a black card by the rules

TBH, i didn't see it at the game and i must have missed in on TSG,

Had JOD just played the ball before that?

frostyjacks

Stoner wrote: »

TBH, i didn't see it at the game and i must have missed in on TSG,

Had JOD just played the ball before that?

It was a soft enough free if I remember, a bit of off the ball jostling that happens in every game. Commentators said as much at the time.

Poor_old_gill

Stoner wrote: »

TBH, i didn't see it at the game and i must have missed in on TSG,

Had JOD just played the ball before that?

No it was in the second half and it was Gooch playing a ball into him- as he went to make a run- he was pulled down off the ball.
The ref gave a free and it should also have constituted a black card imo

Poor_old_gill

frostyjacks wrote: »

It was a soft enough free if I remember, a bit of off the ball jostling that happens in every game. Commentators said as much at the time.

Watch it back- is fouled and it causes him to go to ground just as he is making a run

frostyjacks

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Watch it back- is fouled and it causes him to go to ground just as he is making a run

Not a black card though, if McCarron didn't deliberately bring him down. Not like JOD to go to ground easily.

Poor_old_gill

frostyjacks wrote: »

Not a black card though, if McCarron didn't deliberately bring him down. Not like JOD to go to ground easily.

But I'm saying that he did deliberately bring him down and thats also how the ref saw it as he gave a free.
If it was a free then it was a black card.

No need for the last sentence as we can both engage in that kind of slagging!

frostyjacks

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

But I'm saying that he did deliberately bring him down and thats also how the ref saw it as he gave a free.
If it was a free then it was a black card.

No need for the last sentence as we can both engage in that kind of slagging!

I'm guessing the ref saw it as a jersey tug rather than a pull down.

Poor_old_gill

frostyjacks wrote: »

I'm guessing the ref saw it as a jersey tug rather than a pull down.

He brought him to ground though!!
And we can trust the ref's judgement on black card offences?????;)

frostyjacks

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

He brought him to ground though!!
And we can trust the ref's judgement on black card offences?????;)

Without besmirching JODs fine name, I think he made sure the ref saw it. A free was punishment enough. Black card rule has been a shambles really, it's created as many problems as it was meant to solve. Teams are no less cynical now than before, they've just found new ways to do it.

harpsman

Black card Zzzzzzzzzz.
Told you 18 months ago it was piss poor

Poor_old_gill

frostyjacks wrote: »

Without besmirching JODs fine name, I think he made sure the ref saw it. A free was punishment enough. Black card rule has been a shambles really, it's created as many problems as it was meant to solve. Teams are no less cynical now than before, they've just found new ways to do it.

I agree with you but he was pulled to the ground when making a run for the ball- it's a black card by the letter of the law.

Coillte_Bhoy

Can anyone explain why the Leinster champions are always in the second semi final?

homerjay2005

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Can anyone explain why the Leinster champions are always in the second semi final?

because their prov final is on the last every year, Munster normally first along with the Leinster Hurling final.

very strange though, GAA should mix it up every year.

Fr Tod Umptious

homerjay2005 wrote: »

because their prov final is on the last every year, Munster normally first along with the Leinster Hurling final.

very strange though, GAA should mix it up every year.

The Leinster final was the week before both the Connacht and Ulster finals this season.

I can't remember a recent season where it was after the Connacht final.

Nidgeweasel

Didn't find yesterday as engrossing as some. Found it quite a frustrating watch in truth, mainly down to the conditions and partly down to some hideous refereeing, as an aside Deegan hit a fairly acurate kick out of his hands in the first half. Good ould technique.

Have to say I just never really felt that Tyrone had it in them to actually win it. I know they rallied near the end and played some really good stuff throughout but it just felt that Kerry always had that extra gear or Tyrone just didn't have that edge, or that level of ruthlessness. Think this may have been a year too early for them or something because the chances and the openings were there. They just failed at critical stages and you just can't miss them opportunities. The top teams certainly wouldn't be so profligate in the same situation.

Thought Colm Cavanagh was fantastic yesterday, I honestly can't remember ever being as impressed with him before. The entire half forward line of the kingdom were excellent too, some serious, serious graft needed doing and they all delivered. Geaney aswell had some impact.

I really don't know what to make of Niall Morgan aside from the fact he doesn't exactly lead himself to getting sympathy the way he goes on. He was hopeless yesterday, a dreadful performance under pressure. Some of the stuff, you wouldn't expect it from a reserve keeper. Wonder what the Tyrone crowd think of him long term and how he's done overall since he broke out during the league 2013.

Kerry march on to another final. T'was ever thus. Hopefully the Dubs in the final as I think that'd be the better game.

Kalyke

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Didn't find yesterday as engrossing as some. Found it quite a frustrating watch in truth, mainly down to the conditions and partly down to some hideous refereeing, as an aside Deegan hit a fairly acurate kick out of his hands in the first half. Good ould technique.

Have to say I just never really felt that Tyrone had it in them to actually win it. I know they rallied near the end and played some really good stuff throughout but it just felt that Kerry always had that extra gear or Tyrone just didn't have that edge, or that level of ruthlessness. Think this may have been a year too early for them or something because the chances and the openings were there. They just failed at critical stages and you just can't miss them opportunities. The top teams certainly wouldn't be so profligate in the same situation.

Thought Colm Cavanagh was fantastic yesterday, I honestly can't remember ever being as impressed with him before. The entire half forward line of the kingdom were excellent too, some serious, serious graft needed doing and they all delivered. Geaney aswell had some impact.

I really don't know what to make of Niall Morgan aside from the fact he doesn't exactly lead himself to getting sympathy the way he goes on. He was hopeless yesterday, a dreadful performance under pressure. Some of the stuff, you wouldn't expect it from a reserve keeper. Wonder what the Tyrone crowd think of him long term and how he's done overall since he broke out during the league 2013.

Kerry march on to another final. T'was ever thus. Hopefully the Dubs in the final as I think that'd be the better game.

Yeah, because Mayo v Kerry would be crap 😒

BonnieSituation

Kalyke wrote: »

Yeah, because Mayo v Kerry would be crap 😒

It usually is.

I have to say I left Croker fuming (naturally) on Sunday. By the time I got to The Hogan Stand and had a pint in hand I had calmed and reflected with teh lads from Armagh and Tyrone I was with.

Overall I don't think there is any point in which you could say that Deegan was the reason Tyrone lost. He wasn't. They left some crucial scores out on the pitch and had the beating of Kerry.
Sure there were some bad decisions, but over the course of the game they all (mostly) balanced out.

What I can't understand is why Tyrone kept going wide when the ease at which they countered through the middle and gave the HB all sorts of trouble.

The difference that Geaney made when he came on was something else.

Overall I'm encouraged by the Tyrone performance and I'm nailing them on to win Ulster next year. The experience will stand to them and sure enough if all pans out they'll have Mayo to deal with in the semi-final.
---

As regards the big one next week. I think both teams SHOULD have too much for Kerry but the Mayo yips could see Kerry take another handy one. :O

I'll be happy once whoever wins (what will be a classic next week) is All-Ireland champions by the end of it.

BonnieSituation

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Can anyone explain why the Leinster champions are always in the second semi final?

Box-Office

Put the bigger game on second.

bucketybuck

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

I really don't know what to make of Niall Morgan aside from the fact he doesn't exactly lead himself to getting sympathy the way he goes on. He was hopeless yesterday, a dreadful performance under pressure. Some of the stuff, you wouldn't expect it from a reserve keeper. Wonder what the Tyrone crowd think of him long term and how he's done overall since he broke out during the league 2013.

Morgan has always been like that though, I can't ever remember having any confidence in him either as a keeper or especially as a free kick taker. I thought maybe Harte was sticking with him a few years ago because he believed he would develop into a top keeper but it simply hasn't happened. When Morgan steps up for those long free kicks or 45's you would have no faith in him scoring them at all really. He might score, but might isn't good enough.

On another note, fair play to Mickey Harte this season. That Tyrone team still isn't close to the quality of the other big guns or to his earlier teams, but once again he got them to a semi-final and almost to the final. I could still argue that Tyrone need a change but you can't argue that Harte isn't getting the best he can out of quite a limited squad.

Coillte_Bhoy

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Box-Office

Put the bigger game on second.

I dont see how it being the second semi final makes any difference in that regard

BonnieSituation

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

I dont see how it being the second semi final makes any difference in that regard

True it doesn't. It was an attempted explanation.

Always a pain for when I used to go to Electric Picnic.

ProudDUB

Think I read somewhere that its done based on who has played their provincial final last. The Leinster final is played later than all the other ones, so the Leinster winners semi final (presuming that they win their quarter final) is always the second one. Couldn't be arsed turning on my Google machine to research if that is true, but there ya go.

I think its unfair that the Leinster champion, (or the winner of their quarter final & semi final) always have one week less to prepare for the AI final, than the winner of the Munster final, purely for scheduling reasons. Who plays in the first/second semi final should be alternated imo.

Fr Tod Umptious

ProudDUB wrote: »

Think I read somewhere that its done based on who has played their provincial final last. The Leinster final is played later than all the other ones, so the Leinster winners semi final (presuming that they win their quarter final) is always the second one. Couldn't be arsed turning on my Google machine to research if that is true, but there ya go.

I think its unfair that the Leinster champion, (or the winner of their quarter final & semi final) always have one week less to prepare for the AI final, than the winner of the Munster final, purely for scheduling reasons. Who plays in the first/second semi final should be alternated imo.

Well I did and the Leinster championship is not always the last played

This year Connacht and Ulster were the last, Leinster was last year but not in 2013.
It seems to alternate.

Munster always seems to be first though.

jjdonegal

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Well I did and the Leinster championship is not always the last played

This year Connacht and Ulster were the last, Leinster was last year but not in 2013.
It seems to alternate.

Munster always seems to be first though.

Yeah dont remember Munster not being first.
With that being said I cannot remember the last time Ulster was not on the last day either.

henke

jjdonegal wrote: »

Yeah dont remember Munster not being first.
With that being said I cannot remember the last time Ulster was not on the last day either.

2013 Tyrone Mayo as well as this year. Donegal Cork in 2012 too.

2010 was the last time Dublin played in the first semi but they came through the back door on that occasion.

1974 Dublin Cork is the last time the Leinster champions were fixed to play first. Since the Quarters came in the Leinster champions or the team who beats them have always been fixed to play in the second semi. Not sue why this is the case.