The 2015 All Ireland Senior Football Championship

RoyalCelt

kona wrote: »

Your getting a rotten attitude because you want to remove my county from it's province just to suit your own county.

Galway is hurling in Leinster because there is no Connaught shc. Where as the is a Leinster sfc for Dublin to compete in.

Your own county needs to ask itself why they are so far behind not just Dublin but a number of other counties.

Yeah but your county is bugger than some provinces so why should they be constrained to any one province and make it terminally ill regarding it as a competition? Dublin don't compete in leinster as it is. They just walk it. They honestly have tougher training matches.

And the reason is obviously why all counties are so far behind. Dublin have all the resources be it money sent from the GAA for underage, massive club number advantage over other leinster counties, better career prospects for their players, sponsorship deals etc.

2013 Dublin had 100 professional underage coaches for schools and clubs and Meath had 3 part time. That was paid for by the GAA. I'd love to live in your bubble where you believe teams should actually have a chance.

kona

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Yeah but your county is bugger than some provinces so why should they be constrained to any one province and make it terminally ill regarding it as a competition? Dublin don't compete in leinster as it is. They just walk it. They honestly have tougher training matches.

And the reason is obviously why all counties are so far behind. Dublin have all the resources be it money sent from the GAA for underage, massive club number advantage over other leinster counties, better career prospects for their players, sponsorship deals etc.

2013 Dublin had 100 professional underage coaches for schools and clubs and Meath had 3 part time. That was paid for by the GAA. I'd love to live in your bubble where you believe teams should actually have a chance.

Well what's the spending in Kerry, mayo, Donegal, Monaghan, cork compared to say Meath?

Dublin have more people , more schools, more clubs. Doesn't take a genius to work out why they should get more funding.

RoyalCelt

kona wrote: »

Well what's the spending in Kerry, mayo, Donegal, Monaghan, cork compared to say Meath?

Dublin have more people , more schools, more clubs. Doesn't take a genius to work out why they should get more funding.

Why do you keep referring to meath? This is more about the many leinster counties far worse off than meath. Both meath and Kildare have enough resources to be better and Meath will too. My point is why does Dublin receive 33 times more coaches than meath? the population of Dublin Is about 6 times that of meath so even by your logic things are gosely unfair. basically everything is in dublins favour and it's why Dublin would beat all Bar about 2 leinster counties by 15-20 plus points.

It makes no sense having them in leinster every year.

kona

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Why do you keep referring to meath? This is more about the many leinster counties far worse off than meath. Both meath and Kildare have enough resources to be better and Meath will too. My point is why does Dublin receive 33 times more coaches than meath? the population of Dublin Is about 6 times that of meath so even by your logic things are gosely unfair. basically everything is in dublins favour and it's why Dublin would beat all Bar about 2 leinster counties by 15-20 plus points.

It makes no sense having them in leinster every year.

Ok, but will you answer my question , what is the funding of Meath gaa to say Kerry or mayo gaa?

RoyalCelt

kona wrote: »

Ok, but will you answer my question , what is the funding of Meath gaa to say Kerry or mayo gaa?

I honestly don't know. What I do know is that meath and kerry are much better off than most of the other counties in leinster. The likes of Longford, wicklow, westmeath, offaly, carlow etc actually need these 100 coaches Dublin get paid for to have even the slightest chance of improving. meath can and are at a respectable level without this help. The problem is all this investment has gone to the one county that doesn't need it.

It's like cork have a gaa population around the same size as Dublin. Both counties massive. Yet why do Dublin get so much underage funding than cork? Cork don't need it and neither do Dublin. This money should be invested in the weaker counties. And once again I don't mean meath or Kildare but equally among everyone.

Very Bored

How does Dublin's funding relate to the funding given to Kerry and Kilkenny? Whilst I don't agree whatsoever that any county should have a monopoly on funding, the bigger picture is that sport, particularly GAA, is more than funding. Babies in Kilkenny are given hurls as soon as they are born and I suspect babies in Kerry are given footballs. They grow up and their heroes are on their doorsteps, they are acutely aware that their counties are winning and dominant counties, they then grow up desperate to emulate King Henry or the Gooch. You can fund Dublin to death but you can't create that tradition. That's no disrespect to the Dubs, its fact. Regular Leinster championships don't inspire in the way regular All Irelands do. That might be easy for me to say coming from one of those two aforementioned counties, I have no idea what its like to come from a struggling county, but it is a fact that funding is only half the story.

Boom__Boom

RoyalCelt wrote: »

I honestly don't know. What I do know is that meath and kerry are much better off than most of the other counties in leinster. The likes of Longford, wicklow, westmeath, offaly, carlow etc actually need these 100 coaches Dublin get paid for to have even the slightest chance of improving. meath can and are at a respectable level without this help. The problem is all this investment has gone to the one county that doesn't need it.

It's like cork have a gaa population around the same size as Dublin. Both counties massive. Yet why do Dublin get so much underage funding than cork? Cork don't need it and neither do Dublin. This money should be invested in the weaker counties. And once again I don't mean meath or Kildare but equally among everyone.

I believe Cork had 5 coaches (between both codes) in 2014
Donal Og Cusack mentioned this on the Sunday Game last year.
Then the Cork County Board released a press release saying they planned to increase it to 11, but this 11 was supposedly including 2 lads who were employed by UCC and CIT (basically university coaches with responsibility for GAA matters) and one lad who was pretty much an administrator and did no actual coaching. I didnt heard of any of those positions being filled and with the Stade du Frank swallowing all money in Cork GAA I wouldnt be surprised if the positions werent filled or if hiring was "put on hold"

I'm not too sure I'd agree that Cork don't need coaches - to my mind I think you could make the case that over the last decade or so when you look what they have achieved at club and county level and take into account the population, they have been very mediocre.
Why is it that there is so much talk about Dublin's population advantage but Cork's population barely gets a mention in GAA discussions?

RoyalCelt

Boom__Boom wrote: »

I believe Cork had 5 coaches (between both codes) in 2014
Donal Og Cusack mentioned this on the Sunday Game last year.
Then the Cork County Board released a press release saying they planned to increase it to 11, but this 11 was supposedly including 2 lads who were employed by UCC and CIT (basically university coaches with responsibility for GAA matters) and one lad who was pretty much an administrator and did no actual coaching. I didnt heard of any of those positions being filled and with the Stade du Frank swallowing all money in Cork GAA I wouldnt be surprised if the positions werent filled or if hiring was "put on hold"

I'm not too sure I'd agree that Cork don't need coaches - to my mind I think you could make the case that over the last decade or so when you look what they have achieved at club and county level and take into account the population, they have been very mediocre.
Why is it that there is so much talk about Dublin's population advantage but Cork's population barely gets a mention in GAA discussions?

I know cork by the fact Dublin have 100 alone should be entitled to 100 also considering you have just as many clubs.

But I'm a complete neutral in hurling and I say it's better the way it is. If cork and Kilkenny got funding like the dubs do or even half of it, both of you would utterly dominate hurling forever.

So I hope it never happens because I want a competitive hurling championship. Oh and add tipp to that too.

The GAA should be investing in hurling in counties like limerick, clare, waterford, Galway, wexford, laois, kildare, meath, wicklow, Antrim, carlow, westmeath and kerry.

Tipp, cork and Kilkenny are good enough on their own. Just look at Dublin in Leinster. That's the effect of investing the most in the already best county. It basically kills your championship.

blinding

Just my suggestion for a more interesting Football Championship.

Amalgamate Connaught and Ulster into one group

Leinster and Munster into another group

Then round Robin of 4 (possibly 3) team groups………. then knockout open draw to All Ireland Final.

The Provincials run separately(early in the year) with Finalists getting seeded advantage for the All-Ireland.

The league if still played would have to be reduced.

McKenna cups etc discontinued.

Meath Centre Forward

I think there's two strands to this funding debate.

Dublin by virtue of the fact they have more clubs - more members than everyone else need more money to sustain this. That's fair enough and something everyone needs to accept.

But ... Dublin County Teams are far better funded than most other county mainly due to Dublin's profile. They can attract the top sponsors. This is an area which could be tackled.

The Dublin Senior Team budget is much bigger than at a guess every county's senior team budget. For example everyone can see Dublin have a huge backroom team. I'm sure they can afford the best phyios, nutrionists, dieticians, sports psychology, s&c coaches, statisticians, too and have access to the best resources, gym equipment, training paraphernalia, whatever else. I'm not sure how in an amateur organisation this can be seen to be fair.

Perhaps the way forward is better traceability of grants/sponsorship. Dublin's grant should be enough to provide for the clubs and the game in general in the county but their county teams should be surviving on the same as everyone else.

Spirit of 67

DDC1990 wrote: »

I may be wrong Tod but your idea that Kerry get a QF against an A side QF isn't right.

If Kerry win Munster, the Quarter Final for Kerry will be against the loser of the Ulster Final or the team that beats them. So Donegal, Monaghan, Armagh, Tyrone or the qualifying team that beats them. Hardly an easy draw as you put it.

Not only that but then you have another Ulster team in the Semi. If Cork get their act together, Kerry and the Ulster side of the draw will have the toughest route there.

For my money:
Ulster: Monaghan
Connacht: Roscommon (have had a feeling about them all year)
Munster: Kerry (but nowhere near as easy as people are predicting, Cork won't play like they did against Dublin)
Leinster: Dublin

Don`t dismiss Tipp , decent side , O`Riordan will be fit , hopefully Hannigan will be dropped and one of the pacy Under 21 Half Forwards come in like Jason Lonergan !

J Cheever Loophole

On the general discussion about the Championship, I'd be in favour of a revamp and I'm getting a sense that there is an increasing groundswell of opinion around that. I've said before that I love the Ulster Championship but I feel the provincial championship system has to go to create an equitable playing field. I don't believe there is value to maintaining a separate Provincial Championship that is non Championship related - it would quickly become a McKenna, O'Byrne Cup type competition in stature.

The obvious criticism of this proposal is that it denies the so called weaker counties a meaningful opportunity for success with Clare (92), Leitrim (94), Westmeath (04) etc. referenced. That is why therefore it has to be more than one tier in standard. Colm O'Rourke referred to the fact that most Club Championships have a Senior, Intermediate and Junior standard and there is no reasons why similar principles should not apply at County level. My own feeling would be that 33 teams is too small a group for three tiers, so I would propose two tiers - All Ireland 'A' and 'B', with a Champion in each grade each year. Off the top of my head, four groups of four in each with automatic promotion / relegation for 'B' group winners and fourth place in the 'A' groups. You could add promotion / relegation play-offs between second places and second last teams to increase interest / competitiveness for the round robin fixtures.

The criticism usually leveled at the 'A' and 'B' format was that it was tried before and failed - the Tommy Murphy Cup anyone? I believe that that was very much a half hearted attempt to have a meaningful Junior competition with teams offered the option to participate or not. Any serious attempt at changing the Championship would obviously be compulsory in nature and need to have some sort of 5 / 10 year timeline to allow it to bed in and essentially become part of "business as usual".

And one last point - because weaker teams have always got a serious slapping from stronger teams in Championships does not make it right for it to continue if there is considered to be an underlying issue. As Colm O'Rourke (again) pointed out, considerable resources are being put into every county team and it has to be for something more than what Longford, Carlow and Waterford experienced this year to date.

blinding

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/its-time-to-tackle-football-inequalities-334110.html

I think there are some good ideas in that article especially Sean Kelly's idea.

Why can it not be tried for a few years. The Sky will not fall.

We can go back to the old system or make some adjustments if necessary.

corny

Business as usual in Celtic Park. Man goes down clutching his face gets the opposition player sent off. Its disgusting the way the GAA is following the soccer model with this nonsense.

Say Your Number

He'd have been gone if he hadn't sent one Down player off already

RoyalCelt

Yeah if the first few championship matches are the norm for both hurling and football this year it's going to be an epidemic.

These players dicing should receive 1 match bans if there is TV evidence to prove it.

Nip it in the bud.

Diabhal Beag

Jesus that was a tough game to watch as a neutral. Derry stumbling over the blocks at home against 14 men. Awful.

LuckyGent88

God that was awful stuff from a quality point of view. Fair play to down in getting themselves into the game after the red card though. At least it wasn't the worst football match today.

Itssoeasy

Pat Spillane summed it up nicely. "That's 72 minutes of life gone."

Say Your Number

Loved Darragh laughing at Spillane for being so downbeat "That's 72 minutes of my life gone" :pac:

Dirty Dingus McGee

Neither team look up to much I'd say Donegal or Armagh will destroy Derry in the semi final. Derry have 2 really good players and the rest of the team is very mediocre.

Diabhal Beag

Hoping for 6-8 goals in the hurling to make up for the Derry game

Boom__Boom

Ha - watching on BBC NI and been a lot of criticism of the ref, reading out tweets criticising him and then Jim McCorry comes out and in his interview says he had no problem with the ref and it wasnt the ref that lost it for Down.

RoyalCelt

Watched on BBC myself. Started on Rte but there's only so much b1tching from Spillane you can take.

Enjoyable match has to be said. Derry a lot more physical so probably the best team matched to give the semi a go. They'll have not issues with Armagh but you'd fear Donegal would be a 4/5 point better team and in ulster that's a big margin.

Hurling was also very enjoyable. Apart from Leinster football championship, the rest is in rude health.

Dirty Dingus McGee

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Watched on BBC myself. Started on Rte but there's only so much b1tching from Spillane you can take.

Enjoyable match has to be said. Derry a lot more physical so probably the best team matched to give the semi a go. They'll have not issues with Armagh but you'd fear Donegal would be a 4/5 point better team and in ulster that's a big margin.

Hurling was also very enjoyable. Apart from Leinster football championship, the rest is in rude health.

You obviously didn't watch the Laois Kildare match last night.

ProudDUB

Say Your Number wrote: »

Loved Darragh laughing at Spillane for being so downbeat "That's 72 minutes of my life gone" :pac:

Agreed. No offense to Lyster, but it would be great to see someone call Brolly and Spillane out on all their over the top, doom and gloom remarks. Or roll their eyes/laugh at the sheer silliness of what they say. Maybe, it would make them think twice about trotting out so much predictive silliness. Lyster is a national institution, but you rarely get a reaction out of him on anything they say, unless Marty Morrisseys uncanny resemblance to George Clooney is called into question. :rolleyes:

frostyjacks

I see they're persisting with the qualifier draw on RTE R1 at 8.30am this morning. Surely there's a better way of doing it. What was wrong with after the live game on Sunday afternoon? Things like this are better on TV than radio. I like to try and guess the county as they're unfurling the paper.

nice_guy80

frostyjacks wrote: »

I see they're persisting with the qualifier draw on RTE R1 at 8.30am this morning. Surely there's a better way of doing it. What was wrong with after the live game on Sunday afternoon? Things like this are better on TV than radio. I like to try and guess the county as they're unfurling the paper.

or on the six-one news?
There'd be a big audience for it

Say Your Number

Donegal are just too good

Dirty Dingus McGee

Exceptional football from Donegal so far.Their teamwork, foot passing finishing defending and fielding has been top quality, I'm not sure how good Armagh are but I don't think many teams would cope with the way Donegal are playing so far.

That last free from Murphy was from sixty metres and probably would have made it had it been another 5 or 10 metres back.

Say Your Number

Whatever about this match as a contest, it's a pleasure to watch Murphy take long range frees, it's nearly impossible for Armagh at this stage.

North of 32

Kieran McGeeney is a spoofer.

Orizio

All that half did was re-enforce the need for a second tier competition.

Neeson

Geezer needs to spend less time working on his biceps. Absolute geezer.

STB.

Say Your Number wrote: »

Whatever about this match as a contest, it's a pleasure to watch Murphy take long range frees, it's nearly impossible for Armagh at this stage.

RTE have a dedicated camera on him today.

RGM

Orizio wrote: »

All that half did was re-enforce the need for a second tier competition.

In fairness to Armagh, Donegal would be near the top of the top tier. Armagh are poor today, but they were in the All-Ireland quarterfinals last year. You couldn't put them on the bottom of the heap just based off a single match, no matter how bad.

ArielAtom

Time to split Donegal in two, far tonstrong😉

Nib

Fair play to Ciaran McKeever, he's having a great game despite Armagh being utter shit.

randd1

Neeson wrote: »

Geezer needs to spend less time working on his biceps. Absolute geezer.

Amazing that Kildare, now Armagh, couldn't or can't seem to score unless within 30 yards, and even look afraid to shoot from outside that distance. Seems "professionalism" to Geezer means fitness, not skill or taking a risk in attacking.

Supreme fitness means nothing if you don't practice the skills to make use of it. With Armagh, and it was the same with Kildare, great fitness, well trained to hand pass possession but ultimately always came up short against a side that took them on at speed or were more skillful.

Kerrydude1981

Is the Ulster Championship as strong as the media would have you believe?

One sided game today between two of the stronger counties in it,its like a challenge game

Its Donegal's Ulster championship to lose

Dirty Dingus McGee

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Is the Ulster Championship as strong as the media would have you believe?

One sided game today between two of the stronger counties in it,its like a challenge game

Its Donegal's Ulster championship to lose

It's nowhere near as strong as they go on about (or the posters on certain forums say it is aswell).There are 2 very good teams and 1 good team in Ulster and the rest are fairly mediocre.

RGM

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Is the Ulster Championship as strong as the media would have you believe?

One sided game today between two of the stronger counties in it,its like a challenge game

Its Donegal's Ulster championship to lose

These same two teams played to a difference of a point in last year's All-Ireland quarterfinal.

Stinicker

ArielAtom wrote: »

Time to split Donegal in two, far tonstrong��

No need, Kerry will split their defense in two just like last year if Donegal go as far as to meet Kerry. #SAM38

patsyrockem

The fascination with mc Geeney still amazes me, after 7 or 8 years with Kildare were they any better than when he started??? The media love him and have always given him a soft ride as he usually gives them something controversial to print. He was talking about Kerry and Dublin last week, they are way out of his league! His teams might look good on the beach, but its football we're at here.

corny

Donegal set about them with the purpose you'd expect but Armagh were atrocious. The lack of intensity in everything they did was crippling.

Take a good team to beat Donegal but sure we knew that.

ProudDUB

Well, that was a bit of a surprise. I didn't expect Donegal to lose, but I also didn't expect Armagh to be beaten so comprehensively. With a little bit more self belief, Armagh had their AI quarter final against Donegal won. What's happened since then?

Hard to see Armagh going anywhere with Geezer on the sideline....great motivator and coach of the physical stuff, but tactically clueless. All that great motivational & physical fitness stuff will only get you so far, if you are coming up against teams that are just as fit as you are and are just as motivated as you are.

ScummyMan

Tipp have started flying against Kerry in Semple, 1-1 to a point up after 5 mins. Potential upset on the cards there I think, best Tipp football team in a long time.

Kerrydude1981

ScummyMan wrote: »

Tipp have started flying against Kerry in Semple, 1-1 to a point up after 5 mins. Potential upset on the cards there I think, best Tipp football team in a long time.

Fright to God its not on TV

Going by the lads on the radio Tipps half back line is running wild

fullstop

Stinicker wrote: »

No need, Kerry will split their defense in two just like last year if Donegal go as far as to meet Kerry. #SAM38

And I'm sure you wonder why people don't like Kerry supporters...

North of 32

ProudDUB wrote: »

With a little bit more self belief, Armagh had their AI quarter final against Donegal won.

Today was a surprise but I don't think Donegal got enough credit for last year's quarter final. Sitting in the stand it was clear Donegal underestimated Armagh that day and while Armagh had a strong period, Donegal came back and won that game decisively with Murphy and McBrearty landing clinical scores when the game was on the line. Near the end when the game was there to be won, it was Donegal who really stepped forward and took control.