Cork Airport - *Read Mod Note in First Post Before Posting*

JCX BXC

roundymac wrote: »

Not from ORK.

Or Ireland at all, and SEN is not really here nor there. I can't see why it would suit STK to have LCY-ORK removed.

roundymac

It was me having a blonde moment yesterday.

JCX BXC

I wonder would there be scope for a 1x daily return of LCY? 3x daily was obvious extreme overkill, but the market could support 1x daily, and then increase it in time?

I doubt we'll ever see Flybe or BA cityflyer doing the route.

roundymac

Ya that would do it for me, however I think they went after the business connection which would look for a daily return IMO.

corkonion

corkonion wrote: »

So it seems Norweigan is finally going to get the go ahead to commence flying Cork to Boston


"Cork Airport has today welcomed the US Department of Transportation’s issuing of an Order to Show Cause in relation to the awarding of a foreign carrier permit to Norwegian Air International to commence the first transatlantic service from the city.
The US Department’s order states that it “tentatively” finds that Norwegian Air International “should be issued the foreign air carrier permit” and that there is no legal basis to deny the airline a licence.

Today’s announcement opens process for all interested parties to make submissions supporting or opposing the awarding of the permit.
This process will be open for 21 days, with a final decision made by the Department of Transportation seven days later.
Niall MacCarthy, managing director at Cork Airport said: “This is absolutely fantastic news for the airport, the airline and the region."

So the 21 day consultation period has elapsed, as has the 7 day period for the final decision, and almost another week has passed without a word....
Seems the US dept of transportation are ignoring the rules of their own process.

ongarboy

corkonion wrote: »

So the 21 day consultation period has elapsed, as has the 7 day period for the final decision, and almost another week has passed without a word....
Seems the US dept of transportation are ignoring the rules of their own process.

It was in the news today that Hilary Clinton's camp is strongly opposed to this development as is Bernie Sanders. Whether that will sway the Obama administration, who knows?

I hope it does pass as it would be great for Cork, South Kerry and Waterford proximity wise and the whole country if fares are much cheaper than what we pay on the existing airlines that fly to the States.

JCX BXC

ongarboy wrote: »

I hope it does pass as it would be great for Cork, South Kerry and Waterford proximity wise and the whole country if fares are much cheaper than what we pay on the existing airlines that fly to the States.

If your going to use this argument, you must weigh up the other side? Why is it cheaper? Competition between different airlines flying to the USA has really intensified in this part of Europe, leading to very cheap fares. If NAI can somehow offer cheaper, then they are obviously cutting corners somewhere. That's your labour laws.

Using your logic, think of the opening of eg a Dunnes in a small town with several local shops. Oh great, now the citizens of this town can buy more items for cheaper! Wait, where are all our jobs going? All of a sudden you have the closing of several local shops, so now you have all these people who are either being paid muck or unemployed.

Good for the local economy? Nope.

corkonion

Carnacalla wrote: »

If your going to use this argument, you must weigh up the other side? Why is it cheaper? Competition between different airlines flying to the USA has really intensified in this part of Europe, leading to very cheap fares. If NAI can somehow offer cheaper, then they are obviously cutting corners somewhere. That's your labour laws.

Using your logic, think of the opening of eg a Dunnes in a small town with several local shops. Oh great, now the citizens of this town can buy more items for cheaper! Wait, where are all our jobs going? All of a sudden you have the closing of several local shops, so now you have all these people who are either being paid muck or unemployed.

Good for the local economy? Nope.

I don't agree with your analogy. If Norwegian get the go ahead to fly out of Cork, it will not effect the current airlines negatively as they do not service the USA at all, in fact it should create extra passengers for them as people may want to connect to the Norwegian carrier.

JCX BXC

corkonion wrote: »

I don't agree with your analogy. If Norwegian get the go ahead to fly out of Cork, it will not effect the current airlines negatively as they do not service the USA at all, in fact it should create extra passengers for them as people may want to connect to the Norwegian carrier.

So where will these passengers come from? Are they all just new passengers that don't fly via SNN, DUB or LHR?

How will Norwegian connect pax without interlining agreements also?

snotboogie

Carnacalla wrote: »

corkonion wrote: »

I don't agree with your analogy. If Norwegian get the go ahead to fly out of Cork, it will not effect the current airlines negatively as they do not service the USA at all, in fact it should create extra passengers for them as people may want to connect to the Norwegian carrier.

So where will these passengers come from? Are they all just new passengers that don't fly via SNN, DUB or LHR?

How will Norwegian connect pax without interlining agreements also?

I remember going back and forth with you on long haul out of Cork about 18 months ago. Then I was convinced it would work, now I'm not so sure. The runway limiting the type of aircraft which could be used, the lack of pre clearance and how embedded the public (even in Cork) is with the current routes will make things very difficult.

I don't think Norwegian will get approval and even if they do I don't think they'll stick around in Cork for longer than 12 months and we will be back to the status quo of the less busy airport, serving the smaller catchment (economically and population wise) having a plethora of well served long haul routes, while the bigger airport, serving the economic driver of the region is left with a limited supply of local routes. It must be incredibly frustrating for people in Cork, I can't think of another situation globally where the smaller airport, serving the smaller city, gets so many privileges.

There is zero public or political will outside of Cork to address the issue, aside from giving an adda boy to a cowboy airline that doesn't require any investment from the Irish Government. I have literally no idea what can be done and I think we'll be left with a regional airport serving Ireland's second city and an International Airport serving the city half the size and with only a third of it's economic output.

JCX BXC

snotboogie wrote: »

I remember going back and forth with you on long haul out of Cork about 18 months ago. Then I was convinced it would work, now I'm not so sure. The runway limiting the type of aircraft which could be used, the lack of pre clearance and how embedded the public (even in Cork) is with the current routes will make things very difficult.

I don't think Norwegian will get approval and even if they do I don't think they'll stick around in Cork for longer than 12 months and we will be back to the status quo of the less busy airport, serving the smaller catchment (economically and population wise) having a plethora of well served long haul routes, while the bigger airport, serving the economic driver of the region is left with a limited supply of local routes. It must be incredibly frustrating for people in Cork, I can't think of another situation globally where the smaller airport, serving the smaller city, gets so many privileges.

There is zero public or political will outside of Cork to address the issue, aside from giving an adda boy to a cowboy airline that doesn't require any investment from the Irish Government. I have literally no idea what can be done and I think we'll be left with a regional airport serving Ireland's second city and an International Airport serving the city half the size and with only a third of it's economic output.

No, the discussion was you stating your unhealthy hatrid towards Shannon. (Which at the time you said was in the middle of nowhere , now your agreeing with me and stating its basically Limericks airport?) Your agenda is overwhelming pouring out of what you posted.

Anyway, let's leave Shannon out as I think you will agree our views are irreconcilable.

On the topic of Cork-US services, the NAI may still happen. If not I have no doubt Cork will get US services in the near future with the A320 Neo entering the market. Coupled with economic growth in Cork its achievable.

Also, (further edit) to address the points of Runway Length, a 757 is not limited. This is the primary aircraft used on thin US routes, eg Shannon has 5 of its 6 daily summer services on that aircraft.

Pre clearance, yes its a bonus, but how many people actually recognise it?

snotboogie

Carnacalla wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

I remember going back and forth with you on long haul out of Cork about 18 months ago. Then I was convinced it would work, now I'm not so sure. The runway limiting the type of aircraft which could be used, the lack of pre clearance and how embedded the public (even in Cork) is with the current routes will make things very difficult.

I don't think Norwegian will get approval and even if they do I don't think they'll stick around in Cork for longer than 12 months and we will be back to the status quo of the less busy airport, serving the smaller catchment (economically and population wise) having a plethora of well served long haul routes, while the bigger airport, serving the economic driver of the region is left with a limited supply of local routes. It must be incredibly frustrating for people in Cork, I can't think of another situation globally where the smaller airport, serving the smaller city, gets so many privileges.

There is zero public or political will outside of Cork to address the issue, aside from giving an adda boy to a cowboy airline that doesn't require any investment from the Irish Government. I have literally no idea what can be done and I think we'll be left with a regional airport serving Ireland's second city and an International Airport serving the city half the size and with only a third of it's economic output.

No, the discussion was you stating your unhealthy hatrid towards Shannon. (Which at the time you said was in the middle of nowhere , now your agreeing with me and stating its basically Limericks airport?) Your agenda is overwhelming pouring out of what you posted.

Wow.......

JCX BXC

snotboogie wrote: »

Wow.......

You began the point, I clarified.

Anyway, how about we discuss the Cork-US services?

snotboogie

Carnacalla wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

Wow.......

You began the point, I clarified.

Anyway, how about we discuss the Cork-US services?

I re read the mod note there, I don't think we can have a full discussion on ORK-US routes without mentioning Shannon but I guess that's not allowed.

If we are to stick strictly to Cork, I think it would need a minimum of either pre clearance (never going to happen) or an established Ireland-US airline getting behind it. There is a lot of competition on these routes and I don't think that an unrecognized airline with questionable motives will overcome this competition.

JCX BXC

snotboogie wrote: »

I re read the mod note there, I don't think we can have a full discussion on ORK-US routes without mentioning Shannon but I guess that's not allowed.

If we are to stick strictly to Cork, I think it would need a minimum of either pre clearance (never going to happen) or an established Ireland-US airline getting behind it. There is a lot of competition on these routes and I don't think that an unrecognized airline with questionable motives will overcome this competition.

Shannon has been mentioned here, and nobody really objects to it, it is relevant. Its remarks like some you have made above that cause the squabbles. Yes Limerick and Shannon have half the population (what if you include galway?), you'd be stupid to dispute that. (Gonna need to see a link for the economic output one) Its not revelant though, as the population in Limerick doesn't affect the granting of NAI's licence. Nor does it prohibit airlines from starting at Cork, as its DAA controlled.

I think your overestimating the need for USPC.

1. You need at least 3 or 4 flights a day peak to make it viable. Cork won't have this, for a long time if ever.

2. The amount of people who either dont know about the benefits or just don't care is staggering.

3. Its not THAT important either, queue for an hour in Dublin or an hour in NYC, you pick!

kub

Norwegian are looking dodgy at this stage alright, however Willie Walsh did make a comment about Aer Lingus operating the A321NEO out of Cork, he said he felt it was an appropriate plane for such thin routes. So not all depends on Norwegian.

Anyway didn't Norwegian say they could operate routes out of Shannon as well? Do we really have to go down the SNN v's CRK route again?

roundymac

The times the Cork flights are being pitched at will make USPC irelenvant, 15.00dep land 20.00. For me the choice is simple, 10mins to Cork airport or 90-120mins to SNN.

JCX BXC

kub wrote: »

Anyway didn't Norwegian say they could operate routes out of Shannon as well? Do we really have to go down the SNN v's CRK route again?

They did, and that was my point.

Cape Clear

Any up date on this? Got lost reading through the fish wives arguing over God knows what.

JCX BXC

Cape Clear wrote: »

Any up date on this? Got lost reading through the fish wives arguing over God knows what.

God help you should have to read through 3 or 4 posts!

Cape Clear

Carnacalla wrote: »

God help you should have to read through 3 or 4 posts!

era take it to the play ground. no need for yourself or your sparring partner to be clogging things up here have your pissing contest somewhere else.

JCX BXC

Cape Clear wrote: »

era take it to the play ground. no need for yourself or your sparring partner to be clogging things up here have your pissing contest somewhere else.

Ah I see, only posts that you personally approve of. No need for further clarification

snotboogie

Carnacalla wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

I re read the mod note there, I don't think we can have a full discussion on ORK-US routes without mentioning Shannon but I guess that's not allowed.

If we are to stick strictly to Cork, I think it would need a minimum of either pre clearance (never going to happen) or an established Ireland-US airline getting behind it. There is a lot of competition on these routes and I don't think that an unrecognized airline with questionable motives will overcome this competition.

Shannon has been mentioned here, and nobody really objects to it, it is relevant. Its remarks like some you have made above that cause the squabbles. Yes Limerick and Shannon have half the population (what if you include galway?), you'd be stupid to dispute that. (Gonna need to see a link for the economic output one) Its not revelant though, as the population in Limerick doesn't affect the granting of NAI's licence. Nor does it prohibit airlines from starting at Cork, as its DAA controlled.

I think your overestimating the need for USPC.

1. You need at least 3 or 4 flights a day peak to make it viable. Cork won't have this, for a long time if ever.

2. The amount of people who either dont know about the benefits or just don't care is staggering.

3. Its not THAT important either, queue for an hour in Dublin or an hour in NYC, you pick!

Ya I agree, I can't see Cork getting pre clearance in any sort of feasible situation going forward. I'd certainly pick Dublin over JFK for queues, Logan is more of a pick em. I saw a lot of comments on twitter regarding pre clearance after Norweigan first announced the route, so it seemed to be a big deal to people.

The economic difference:



[th]Area[/th]
[th]Population[/th]
[th]Country[/th]
[th]City[/th]
[th]GDP [/th]
[th]GDP per person [/th]

Dublin Region
1.3 m
ROI
Dublin
72.4 bn
57,200

South-West Region
670,000
ROI
Cork
32.3 bn
48,500

Greater Belfast
720,000
NI
Belfast
20.9 bn
33,550

West Region
380,000
ROI
Galway
13.8 bn
31,500


Mid-West Region
340,000
ROI
Limerick
11.4 bn
30,300


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland#Economy

JCX BXC

Fair enough in comparison terms of the south west and mid west.

.red.

I was checking flights today for a few nights away at the end of august.
Cork to Edinburgh with Aer Lingus Regional, €186.
Dublin to Edinburgh with Ryanair, same days €59.
Seems a great deal.
Add in, fuel, tolls and parking, probably about €70 bringing it to €130. Over 3 hours in the car each way(we live near macroom), flight times over and back mean a bit of sitting in a bit of traffic to and from Dublin.. Flight times are also much better from cork, and we wouldnt have to pay for parking.
All things considered it would be about 50 odd Euro extra, less than €30 each by flying from Cork and we'd save 6/7 hours travel time.
Bit sickening really when i think about it.
Flights at a great price but not really worth the hassle.

Cape Clear

.red. wrote: »

I was checking flights today for a few nights away at the end of august.
Cork to Edinburgh with Aer Lingus Regional, €186.
Dublin to Edinburgh with Ryanair, same days €59.
Seems a great deal.
Add in, fuel, tolls and parking, probably about €70 bringing it to €130. Over 3 hours in the car each way(we live near macroom), flight times over and back mean a bit of sitting in a bit of traffic to and from Dublin.. Flight times are also much better from cork, and we wouldnt have to pay for parking.
All things considered it would be about 50 odd Euro extra, less than €30 each by flying from Cork and we'd save 6/7 hours travel time.
Bit sickening really when i think about it.
Flights at a great price but not really worth the hassle.

Also add in wear and tear to car and food drink for yourselves.

roundymac

Agree, it's pretty frustrating when you see the prices ex-Dub but the thoughts of driving to Dublin when we have an airport just up the road kills me. Takes the joy out of the trip for me to be honest

TheDriver

Remember that most people in Dublin are an hour from airport unlike us who are all within 30 mins of airport and can stroll in 60 mins before departure

JCX BXC

TheDriver wrote: »

Remember that most people in Dublin are an hour from airport unlike us who are all within 30 mins of airport and can stroll in 60 mins before departure

So EVERYONE in Dublin lives an hour from the airport, and EVERYONR in Cork lives 30mins?

roundymac

Carnacalla wrote: »

So EVERYONE in Dublin lives an hour from the airport, and EVERYONR in Cork lives 30mins?

Or less in my case.:D Knowing the traffic in Dublin I would say everyone in dublin lives at least an hour if not more from the airport. Also in Cork and SNN you don't have the queue's that you would have in Dublin.