Cork Airport - *Read Mod Note in First Post Before Posting*

TheDriver

I sometimes wonder about routes. Take Tenerife, aer lingus do winter and Ryanair do summer which is now twice a week. If its that popular, why do aer lingus stay away from it?

Jamie2k9

TheDriver wrote: »

I sometimes wonder about routes. Take Tenerife, aer lingus do winter and Ryanair do summer which is now twice a week. If its that popular, why do aer lingus stay away from it?

Because the sector is to long and in summer they could squeeze 2 return flights into the schedule instead of just flying 1 return to Tenerife.

All about making the most money.

opus

Would be great if they get a flight to Berlin back as mentioned in yesterday's Echo.

TheDriver

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Because the sector is to long and in summer they could squeeze 2 return flights into the schedule instead of just flying 1 return to Tenerife.

All about making the most money.

I appreciate that but if Ryanair can fill 2 flights a week, why did aer Lingus give up the route?

roundymac

They did'nt, as you have already mentioned they fly it in winter.

Jamie2k9

TheDriver wrote: »

I appreciate that but if Ryanair can fill 2 flights a week, why did aer Lingus give up the route?

Can make more elsewhere such as flying extra Faro and Malaga ex Cork instead. Ryanair have hundreds of aircraft and can afford to operate very profitable, profitable, marginally profitable routes where as Aer Lingus will always go for very profitable especially during the summer.

Canary Islands make a lot of moneu in winter hence EI operate TFS, LPA on top of ACE but there is so much more sun selection in summer.

They only drop it May-mid September.

JCX BXC

It can also be a case of can Aer Lingus get a better return on a flight to Tenerife where Ryanair dominate the market currently, or can they make a better return off a flight to Spain and then a flight to Paris.

KCAccidental

TheDriver wrote: »

I appreciate that but if Ryanair can fill 2 flights a week, why did aer Lingus give up the route?

Ryanair also operate multiple routes per day with each plane. So it might do Cork-Tenerife-Madrid-Stansted-Cork for example and not lose sectors like Aer Lingus would.

snotboogie

2.23 million in 2016, up 8%
https://www.businessworld.ie/news/Additional-160-000-passengers-used-Cork-Airport-in-2016-567134.html

daithi7

snotboogie wrote: »

2.23 million in 2016, up 8%
https://www.businessworld.ie/news/Additional-160-000-passengers-used-Cork-Airport-in-2016-567134.html

overall this is a very welcome development. However, the rate of growth is still significantly lower than Dublin Airport Traffic at 11%, and this with Cork coming from a puny base e.g. Cork airport traffic in 2016,, was ~2.2 million passengers whereas Dublin Airport Traffic grew by 2.8 million passengers to over 27 million. So Dublin Airport Traffic is increasing by more than the total traffic through Cork Airport each year. And the rate of growth is also higher, so that Cork airport is still underperforming both in absolute and relative terms. Sorry.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/0112/844403-dublin-airport-passenger-numbers-soar-by-11/

JCX BXC

Dublin city is outperforming Cork in many aspects though, population growth, tourism growth, multinationals growth, this is reflected by the airports growth, another factor is the increasing amount of passengers using DUB as a hub.

daithi7

JCX BXC wrote: »

Dublin city is outperforming Cork in many aspects though, population growth, tourism growth, multinationals growth, this is reflected by the airports growth, another factor is the increasing amount of passengers using DUB as a hub.

Simple question: do you really think Dublin is outperforming Cork by so much that Dublin airport should handle over 12 times the volume of Cork airport passenger traffic each year!?!

Jamie2k9

daithi7 wrote: »

Simple question: do you really think Dublin is outperforming Cork by so much that Dublin airport should handle over 12 times the volume of Cork airport passenger traffic each year!?!

People in Cork fail to realize there is just 500,000 or so plus Shannon up the road and Kerry as well. Take the UK, for example Leeds around 1.2 million and the airport handles around 4-5 million passengers (largely bucket and spade like Cork) with Manchester hour or bit more away handling 25 million. Mind you the M62 at peak times could be as long as driving to Dublin from Cork!

Cork is on the coast with a low population and two airports close by handling 2 million or so combined plus Cork's 2.2 million and population combined of Cork, Limerick, Kerry, Clare etc and overall numbers are what one expects.

If Cork was located for example in Mallow it's catchment would be a lot better.

daithi7

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

People in Cork fail to realize there is just 500,000 or so plus Shannon up the road and Kerry as well. Take the UK, for example Leeds around 1.2 million and the airport handles around 4-5 million passengers (largely bucket and spade like Cork) with Manchester hour or bit more away handling 25 million. Mind you the M62 at peak times could be as long as driving to Dublin from Cork!

Cork is on the coast with a low population and two airports close by handling 2 million or so combined plus Cork's 2.2 million and population combined of Cork, Limerick, Kerry, Clare etc and overall numbers are what one expects.

If Cork was located for example in Mallow it's catchment would be a lot better.

Fyi Mallow is ~20mins by car from Cork, and it's not the second city in the republic.

Population of county Dublin is 1.35m, Dublin Airport carries over 27m passengers a year, growing at 11%p.a. So 20 passengers per person in Dublin
Population of county Cork is .514m, Cork Airport carries just 2.2 m passengers a year, now growing at 8% p.a.. So 4 passengers per person in Cork.

Of course I realise that Dublin is the capital, is more international, and has more hub traffic, but the differential is still far too high imho, at 20pax pp, versus 4pax pp.

Cork airport is still way underperforming for a new airport serving a population base with its demographics, socio economics and economic catchment area. This should be addressed nationally imho.

JCX BXC

A new airport? What?

Dublin has more destinations than Cork. Because of this, when people want to go to certain places they have to fly from Dublin because alot of these routes won't be economically viable from Cork.

Cork can do a little better, but it's negligible.

Compare any part of England to London's 6 airports and it'll be a similar situation.

mire

daithi7 wrote: »

Fyi Mallow is ~20mins by car from Cork, and it's not the second city in the republic.

Population of county Dublin is 1.35m, Dublin Airport carries over 27m passengers a year, growing at 11%p.a. So 20 passengers per person in Dublin
Population of county Cork is .514m, Cork Airport carries just 2.2 m passengers a year, now growing at 8% p.a.. So 4 passengers per person in Cork.

Of course I realise that Dublin is the capital, is more international, and has more hub traffic, but the differential is still far too high imho, at 20pax pp, versus 4pax pp.

Cork airport is still way underperforming for a new airport serving a population base with its demographics, socio economics and economic catchment area. This should be addressed nationally imho.

You're assuming that the population of Cork County - circa 520,000 is the de-facto catchment for Cork Airport - it is much more complex than that and county based statistics are pretty useless when assessing viability/performance. Those 520,000 are served by three airports - Cork, Dublin, Shannon.

Also, what no-one really wants to face up to is that the Cork-Limerick Motorway, if completed, will probably ensure that the two airports can not survive as competing airports with similar business models. In my view, Cork's long-haul prospects will decline, and Shannon's role will probably change too.

Cape Clear

daithi7 wrote: »

overall this is a very welcome development. However, the rate of growth is still significantly lower than Dublin Airport Traffic at 11%, and this with Cork coming from a puny base e.g. Cork airport traffic in 2016,, was ~2.2 million passengers whereas Dublin Airport Traffic grew by 2.8 million passengers to over 27 million. So Dublin Airport Traffic is increasing by more than the total traffic through Cork Airport each year. And the rate of growth is also higher, so that Cork airport is still underperforming both in absolute and relative terms. Sorry.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/0112/844403-dublin-airport-passenger-numbers-soar-by-11/

How much of this 27m came from outside the Dublin Airport catchment area I wonder ie. people from Cork, Galway etc.

snotboogie

daithi7 wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

2.23 million in 2016, up 8%
https://www.businessworld.ie/news/Additional-160-000-passengers-used-Cork-Airport-in-2016-567134.html

overall this is a very welcome development. However, the rate of growth is still significantly lower than Dublin Airport Traffic at 11%, and this with Cork coming from a puny base e.g. Cork airport traffic in 2016,, was ~2.2 million passengers whereas Dublin Airport Traffic grew by 2.8 million passengers to over 27 million. So Dublin Airport Traffic is increasing by more than the total traffic through Cork Airport each year. And the rate of growth is also higher, so that Cork airport is still underperforming both in absolute and relative terms. Sorry.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/0112/844403-dublin-airport-passenger-numbers-soar-by-11/

This time last year there were serious discussions in the media about closing Cork Airport, a return to 8% growth is not a tepid triumph, it's phenomenal turnaround from 7 straight years of declining numbers. They are predicting 5% growth for next year which would represent a genuine push to overtake Belfast City (which shrunk 1.2% this year) as the third biggest airport on the island behind Dublin and Belfast International.


Forget about competing with Dublin Airport on any sort of level, the population spread and infrastructure make this impossible. There are 2.6 million people in Leinster, the population has one centre and there is one international airport. There are 1.25 million in Munster, there are two population centres and two international airports. So Dublin has double the population and essentially no competition, this means more routes, which means people from all over the country travel there to avail of their unique destinations. On top of that the entire national road and rail network is centered in Dublin. If we were starting over, one airport would be desirable for Munster, however neither Cork or Shannon are in the right geographic position to be that airport and it's not reasonable to suggest knocking both and starting over.


The population of the city and suburbs in Cork is growing, predicted to be close to 400k by 2022 and the airport seems to be well run at the moment, so it looks like that growth can continue for the next few years, baring another recession. I still think the general apathy of the local population towards the airport is an issue, Cork travelers are farcically price sensitive, I know many people who will happily do a 7 hour round trip on the aircoach to save €30 or €40, I would like to see more marketing to emphasize just how much more convenient Cork Airport is, not only in terms of travel distance but also how much faster the check in, security lines and walk to gate are.

namloc1980

I know someone who went to Liverpool last weekend. He got the Aircoach up early morning Saturday (2am) to catch the flight from DUB. Flew back Sun night and had to face the Aircoach journey back down. There were flights from Cork to Liverpool and return that he could have taken at practically the same time. I think he saved €35 but spent 7 hours on the Aircoach plus the awful time he had to get up at and got home at. Oh and he lives 10 minute drive from the airport. Ludicrous is the only word.

JCX BXC

Ah ffs the flights from Cork are Ryanair they don't get much cheaper!

I hear it alot.

Rhys Essien

namloc1980 wrote: »

I know someone who went to Liverpool last weekend. He got the Aircoach up early morning Saturday (2am) to catch the flight from DUB. Flew back Sun night and had to face the Aircoach journey back down. There were flights from Cork to Liverpool and return that he could have taken at practically the same time. I think he saved €35 but spent 7 hours on the Aircoach plus the awful time he had to get up at and got home at. Oh and he lives 10 minute drive from the airport. Ludicrous is the only word.

Now that person deserves a severe kick up the hole.

TheDriver

JCX BXC wrote: »

Ah ffs the flights from Cork are Ryanair they don't get much cheaper!

I hear it alot.

True except Ryanair know where and when to gouge too

Jamie2k9

daithi7 wrote: »

Fyi Mallow is ~20mins by car from Cork, and it's not the second city in the republic.

Population of county Dublin is 1.35m, Dublin Airport carries over 27m passengers a year, growing at 11%p.a. So 20 passengers per person in Dublin
Population of county Cork is .514m, Cork Airport carries just 2.2 m passengers a year, now growing at 8% p.a.. So 4 passengers per person in Cork.

Of course I realise that Dublin is the capital, is more international, and has more hub traffic, but the differential is still far too high imho, at 20pax pp, versus 4pax pp.

Cork airport is still way underperforming for a new airport serving a population base with its demographics, socio economics and economic catchment area. This should be addressed nationally imho.

its under performing because there is 3 airports fighting for a low population base. I really don't think people realize that Ireland is extremely lightly populated outside DUB region.

If they were closed and one airport built it could compete with DUB because it could attract major cities with good frequency.

Your population comparison is flawed as people in N Cork are just as close to SNN/DUB, West Cork to KIR and so on. The majority of typical Irish trips can get to the exact same place from SNN over ORK.

For people on the east cost it's DUB or nothing.

daithi7

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

its under performing because there is 3 airports fighting for a low population base. I really don't think people realize that Ireland is extremely lightly populated outside DUB region.

If they were closed and one airport built it could compete with DUB because it could attract major cities with good frequency.

Your population comparison is flawed as people in N Cork are just as close to SNN/DUB, West Cork to KIR and so on. The majority of typical Irish trips can get to the exact same place from SNN over ORK.

For people on the east cost it's DUB or nothing.

With all due respect it's your comparison that is flawed, people in North Cork are not just as close to DUB , as you try to suggest.

On the more general point, I'm only referencing Dublin Airport as a comparator (carrying 5 times the number of passengers per head of county population, etc) , not a competitor. Also of course, Cork Airport is still stupidly run by a crowd called the 'Dublin Airport Authority'......for those of you a little stuck the mud, the clue is the name.

Cork airport is still way underperforming on any objective measure. It's a relatively new airport, in the vibrant, growing, prosperous 2nd largest city in the state, with a big population hinterland to serve.

The governance, management and marketing of the airport should be addressed as a national(transport) issue. It's a failure of successive governments that it hasn't been properly structured to date, despite many false promises to do so over the past decade.

JCX BXC

Again, new airport? What?

If your referring to the Terminal, I wouldn't consider it new. Nor does this matter, a new terminal doesn't make an airport.

daithi7

JCX BXC wrote: »

Again, new airport? What?

If your referring to the Terminal, I wouldn't consider it new. Nor does this matter, a new terminal doesn't make an airport.

Do try to read what I wrote will you? I wrote 'relatively new'.
it's open ~10 years, considering airport terminals typically last about 50 years, it's in the first 20% of it's useful life.....that's relatively new.

JCX BXC

daithi7 wrote: »

Do try to read what I wrote will you? I wrote 'relatively new'.
it's open ~10 years, considering airport terminals typically last about 50 years, it's in the first 20% of it's useful life.....that's relatively new.

How does this matter though? Shannon's terminal is 18 years and Dublin T2 is 7.

None of these affect passenger numbers to the slightest.

daithi7

JCX BXC wrote: »

How does this matter though? Shannon's terminal is 18 years and Dublin T2 is 7.

None of these affect passenger numbers to the slightest.

How do you know!?

Dublin Airport carries 5 times the number of passengers per head of population than Cork does, and it's growing it's traffic at ~1.5 times the rate of growth in Cork. Do you think a' new 'T2 might be contributing to this impressive performance maybe!?

snotboogie

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

its under performing because there is 3 airports fighting for a low population base. I really don't think people realize that Ireland is extremely lightly populated outside DUB region.

If they were closed and one airport built it could compete with DUB because it could attract major cities with good frequency.

Your population comparison is flawed as people in N Cork are just as close to SNN/DUB, West Cork to KIR and so on. The majority of typical Irish trips can get to the exact same place from SNN over ORK.

For people on the east cost it's DUB or nothing.

There is one town (Charleville) in Cork that's closest international airport isn't Cork. There are 4k people living there. For over 99% of the people in Cork, ORK is their closest airport by a significant margin. I don't think you should be lecturing anyone on Irish geography or demographics if you think DUB is closer or a comparative distance to ORK for anyone living in the county.

lisasimpson

Great to see the turn around in figures for he airport and hopefully more to come in the next few years
Hard to compare cork with dublin greater choice of fligts plus a lot of internationals use the pre clearance into the US there.
agree the likes of the liverpool guy needs a kick in the ass
Definately cork could be marketed as a family friendly airport for starters...its a lot easier if you are travelling with young kids to use. Also it can be a forgotten option for people in surrounding counties.
Also i know of a couple of cases where people have missed flights in dublin airport cause of crashes etc on the m7/m50.people will start to get sick of that
also on some routes from the summer season is a short enough window. Last year i travelled the 2nd last wk of the madrid service and it was still busy enough
Finally the marketing department should be onto the likes of the travel expert and other travel writers..most of the travel deal/city breaks they write about are mostly from dublin