Cork Airport - *Read Mod Note in First Post Before Posting*

namloc1980

the beer revolu wrote: »

I always thought Ovens was the alternative site

Link

It came down to the site at Midleton or the current location. Meteorological tests concluded that the Midleton site was superior and didn't have any of the fog/wind issues of Ballygarvan. The main concern with Midleton was the distance to the city. At the time it was very rurally located but it was pointed out a rail link was very nearby in Midleton.

A report commissioned to assess the appropriate location for the new airport concluded:

Ahenesk has the advantage of being comparatively close to a railway station but not bounded by a railway line. Similarly, it has easy access from a main road but is not bounded by such a road. The surrounding country is open and there are no high hills. A certain portion of the ground will require drainage and a small rectification of the contours on the higher portion of the ground will be necessary. Removal of the banks which cut up the site and the diversion of a road are also entailed.

We are quite satisfied that in this site Cork has an airport adequate for both present and, as far as can be foreseen, future requirements in suitable surroundings and within easy reach of the city. We believe this to be the only site on which a practicable and entirely satisfactory aerodrome could be made at a moderate expenditure and within a reasonable period of time.

The Minister at the time stated to the Dail:

During the war the question of an airport in Cork, as a post-war development project, was again taken up and in 1944 we carried out an investigation of possible sites in the vicinity of Cork. That inquiry revealed that there were two possible sites. One was near Midleton and the other was adjacent to the place where the present private airport exists. Supplementary to that investigation of the terrain and its suitability for the construction of an airport, meteorological investigations over a number of years were carried out and, on the basis of those investigations, the location of the present airport was ruled out and Midleton was deemed more suitable. The report to me was that not more than 80 per cent. regularity could be ensured at the Ballygarvan site because of the incidence of fog.

However Ballygarvan was ultimately chosen. There's been suggestions of corruption and shenanigans that led to that decision and the recommendations of the expert report being ignored. Nothing new there then.

overmantle

At that time, Midleton would have been considered quite a long way from the city centre. With Link Roads now, that's not the case but it would have been when the original decision was being taken.

BlinkingLights

The powers that were probably thought that it would give the aircraft a head start to gave the airport on the hill.

You've got to remember at the time there was no real ambition to have direct transatlantic flights anywhere other than Shannon too. Even Dublin still had the Shannon stopovers.

Any routes from Cork would have been strictly domestic, UK and continental European with relatively small aircraft even compared to what it's handling now.

I read the reports at the time and an area between Carrigtowhil and Midleton was preferred initially but because it was productive, agricultural land of high value and possibly future development land the purchase price was very high compared to what they bought at Ballygarvan.

I think it was more a cost cutting exercise than anything to do with future planning or dodgy dealing.

It was a very small operation when it opened compared to what there today.

I mean you're talkimh about a period when Dublin Airport was handling fewer passengers than Cork is today and Cork Airport was really maybe comparable to Kerry or Knock.

Also none of the road network that is in place in Cork today was planned until the early 1970s.

The airport location is less than ideal but, I wouldn't be too harsh on the planners of the time. It's a very long time ago and they were looking at a very different economy, aviation environment and transport network.

namloc1980

overmantle wrote: »

At that time, Midleton would have been considered quite a long way from the city centre. With Link Roads now, that's not the case but it would have been when the original decision was being taken.

The report at the time outlined that the nearby rail link made the distance to the city only a minor concern. The decision to go with Ballygarvan was politicians thinking they knew better than the expert group they commissioned who recommended the Midleton site.

mire

Does anyone have any idea whether land ownership was a part of the decision making process in the location of the airport?

Reputable Rog

the beer revolu wrote: »

I always thought Ovens was the alternative site

No that was the alternative crematorium site.

kub

Willie Walsh the CEO of IAG recently said at a press conference that the new A321NEO would be ideal for airports such as Cork for links to US.

The Airbus planes like the A320 apparently need less runway distance than a Boeing 737.

I just took this:

Detailed consideration will need to be given within this phase for the need to provide an extension to the
existing north-south Runway 17-35 so as to facilitate in the long-term the commencement and operation of
long-haul and transatlantic flights which will enhance the airport’s competitive position. The extension of
the east-west Runway 07-35 is impractical primarily because, firstly, the cost implications makes it
prohibitive, secondly, extending Runway 07-35 in an
easterly direction will re
quire realignment of the
Kinsale Road (R600) which will have serious implicati
ons on the primary access to the airport and related
safety issues, and thirdly, it would be contrary to the established strategy of the airport authority which is
for development on the north-south axis as set out in the Cork Airport Development Plan 1999 and the
Cork Airport SE Quadrant Study (Scott Wilson 2006). Therefore, as the extension of Runway 17-35 is the
best possible option, it will be necessary for the airport authority to undertake immediately a feasibility
study to determine the most suitable direction of the extension, i.e., in a southerly direction, a northerly
direction or a combination of both, so as to achieve an extended runway with a length ranging from
2,350m to 2,633m. As a consequence of the Runway 17-35 extension there will be the need to redefine
the associated runway obstacle limitation surfaces, aviation safety Red Zones, Public Safety Zones
(PSZs) and noise contours of Runway 17-35 which wi
ll require the undertaking of detailed assessment
and modelling studies.
The relocation of the general aviation aircraft base from the SE Quadrant to the SW Quadrant will also be
necessary to provide both the required additional apron space and the parallel taxiway.
In addition, the development of an aircraft maintenance facility through the provision of a common-user
aircraft hangar for day-to-day aircraft maintenance in the SE Quadrant is seen as a necessary requirement
in the short-term. The development of this common-user
hangar facility may have the potential for airline
operators to increase and/or develop an operational presence at the airport.


From this future development plan document http://www.corkcoco.ie/co/pdf/57062904.pdf

Obviously they made a mistake above 07/35 should actually be 07/25

namloc1980

It'll be very difficult to get funding for a runway extension in Cork. It's not even on the radar of the existing capital plan which is out to 2021. Second runway in Dublin is a priority.

kub

namloc1980 wrote: »

It'll be very difficult to get funding for a runway extension in Cork. It's not even on the radar of the existing capital plan which is out to 2021. Second runway in Dublin is a priority.

Correct, as mentioned in that plan it is a long term aim

Reputable Rog

kub wrote: »

Willie Walsh the CEO of IAG recently said at a press conference that the new A321NEO would be ideal for airports such as Cork for links to US.

The Airbus planes like the A320 apparently need less runway distance than a Boeing 737.

I just took this:

Detailed consideration will need to be given within this phase for the need to provide an extension to the
existing north-south Runway 17-35 so as to facilitate in the long-term the commencement and operation of
long-haul and transatlantic flights which will enhance the airport’s competitive position. The extension of
the east-west Runway 07-35 is impractical primarily because, firstly, the cost implications makes it
prohibitive, secondly, extending Runway 07-35 in an
easterly direction will re
quire realignment of the
Kinsale Road (R600) which will have serious implicati
ons on the primary access to the airport and related
safety issues, and thirdly, it would be contrary to the established strategy of the airport authority which is
for development on the north-south axis as set out in the Cork Airport Development Plan 1999 and the
Cork Airport SE Quadrant Study (Scott Wilson 2006). Therefore, as the extension of Runway 17-35 is the
best possible option, it will be necessary for the airport authority to undertake immediately a feasibility
study to determine the most suitable direction of the extension, i.e., in a southerly direction, a northerly
direction or a combination of both, so as to achieve an extended runway with a length ranging from
2,350m to 2,633m. As a consequence of the Runway 17-35 extension there will be the need to redefine
the associated runway obstacle limitation surfaces, aviation safety Red Zones, Public Safety Zones
(PSZs) and noise contours of Runway 17-35 which wi
ll require the undertaking of detailed assessment
and modelling studies.
The relocation of the general aviation aircraft base from the SE Quadrant to the SW Quadrant will also be
necessary to provide both the required additional apron space and the parallel taxiway.
In addition, the development of an aircraft maintenance facility through the provision of a common-user
aircraft hangar for day-to-day aircraft maintenance in the SE Quadrant is seen as a necessary requirement
in the short-term. The development of this common-user
hangar facility may have the potential for airline
operators to increase and/or develop an operational presence at the airport.


From this future development plan document http://www.corkcoco.ie/co/pdf/57062904.pdf

Obviously they made a mistake above 07/35 should actually be 07/25

Document is very much out of date, they've had a Special Local Area Plan since and the new Draft plan for the airport has just come off display.
They have lots of plans for the airport but extending the runway is not one of them.

http://corklocalareaplans.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Draft-Ballincollig-Carrigaline-MD-LAP.pdf

lisasimpson

Nice to see the social media accounts promoting routes from the airport a bit more.
Any idea ideas how the bookings for wowair are doing. Not long to take off..will probably avail of a trip to iceland before the end of the year

roundymac

From what I'v heard they are excellent as are the bookings for the Boston flights. How accurate this are I don't know.

lisasimpson

Iberria currently have a sale on if anyone is interest in the madrid route

snotboogie

roundymac wrote: »

From what I'v heard they are excellent as are the bookings for the Boston flights. How accurate this are I don't know.

I've seen a couple of different news reports saying that Norweigan are selling really well
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"For now, our priority is to deliver the first ever transatlantic flights from Cork Airport, with the new Boston-Providence service, and we are delighted that the route is already proving to be one of our fastest selling."[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]https://www.hospitalityireland.com/cork-airport-new-york-route-still-pipeline/41553 [/font]

I haven't seen anything on how the Wow flights are selling, the continual promotion of them on the Cork Airport twitter account led me to believe that they weren't selling well. Of course I could be completely wrong on that.

.red.

WOW cancelled their very first scheduled flight a few weeks ago due to low numbers.
AFAIK the rest of them are selling well tho.

roundymac

Oh dear, well it's going to be a case of use them or lose them.:(

lisasimpson

roundymac wrote: »

Oh dear, well it's going to be a case of use them or lose them.:(

O i hope thats not the case again!!!
Hoping to use the service when I take my 2 wks annual leave later in the year. Can fault the airport on this one they are promoting it on social media

Curb Your Enthusiasm

.red. wrote: »

WOW cancelled their very first scheduled flight a few weeks ago due to low numbers.
AFAIK the rest of them are selling well tho.

What flight was that?

.red.

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

What flight was that?

The first scheduled Cork to Reykjavik flight. The original second flight a few days later will now be the first.
Probably just a scheduling issue but word was lack of numbers.

lisasimpson

Actually on the news during the week there was a report in he drop of UK visitors to Ireland in the last few months. Any idea how passenger numbers are going so far this year for cork airport since its mainly UK routes?

snotboogie

lisasimpson wrote: »

Actually on the news  during the week there was a report in he drop of UK visitors to Ireland in the last few months.  Any idea how passenger numbers are going so far this year for cork airport since its mainly UK routes?

The CSO website haven't updated traffic numbers since January for any airport. The media are reporting 6% growth for Cork Airport in April and 2% growth for the year. There are a lot of reports of aircraft movements being down in Cork but I imagine that is due to the London City flights. In terms of the UK:

All regions were in growth during April, with passengers traveling to Continental Europe up 8% and passengers travelling to the UK up 5%.Of the UK growth, flights to London accounted for 41% of traffic in the month.

 Passenger numbers up 6% at Cork Airport

BlinkingLights

Cork Airport's fortunes are very much linked to the local economy though. It's fairly clear at the moment that Cork City and hinterland is feeling a lot more prosperous in the last while and people are taking more holidays abroad and also growing consumer confidence in continental Europe (certainly in the Northern parts)

A lot of its flights to/from places like Amsterdam and Germany are driven 50:50 by tourism both directions as well as Cork businesses picking up.

Sterling sinking will cause Cork people to consider going on shopping trips to London and Sterling rising causes British tourists to consider holidaying in West Cork / SW generally. So it's swings and roundabouts depending on which side is feeling richer at any given time.

Shannon is far more impacted by US$ / EUR rates and American consumer confidence and Dublin's probably more driven by general international trends too.

The big risk for Irish tourism generally now is any major screw up in Brexit negotiations by the UK causing a dramatic slide in Sterling.

I think Cork Airport's marketing has dramatically improved in the last year or two, and hopefully that will drive up flights and use, but a lot of it has to do with the general economic climate.

Personally, I still find Cork Airport has a good product to offer. If there's a flight available, and I'm in Cork / near by, it provides a pleasant, no-nonsense experience and pretty well put together facilities.

In its marketing in Cork it really needs to push the sense that it is literally *your airport* *on your doorstep*. There's a huge convenience factor for about 1/2 million people in its hinterland.

It also needs to go above-and-beyond with the attention to detail. Any slip up on things like toilet hygiene (something I have noticed once or twice) is unacceptable and something they cannot take for granted.

If you want to retain passengers and you're not Dublin Airport, you really need to get *everything* right all the time.

roundymac

Brexit has not helped either, it has caused the £ to fall in value against the Euro making us more expensive to visit.

Jamie2k9

The 6% in April can be put down to Easter as March had only 0.01% growth.

snotboogie

.red. wrote: »

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

What flight was that?

The first scheduled Cork to Reykjavik flight. The original second flight a few days later will now be the first.
Probably just a scheduling issue but word was lack of numbers.

You can still book WOW flights out of Cork for the 19th of May, which was always the launch date. Where did you see that the flight on the 19th was cancelled?

snotboogie

Country Airport Code Jan Feb Mar Apr
Ireland Cork ORK  132 261  132 454  154 569  182 555
Ireland Cork ORK 5.50% 0.06% -4.71% 6.35%

.red.

snotboogie wrote: »

You can still book WOW flights out of Cork for the 19th of May, which was always the launch date. Where did you see that the flight on the 19th was cancelled?

That's the original 2nd flight. Think the 16th was the first one when the route was announced.

snotboogie

.red. wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

You can still book WOW flights out of Cork for the 19th of May, which was always the launch date. Where did you see that the flight on the 19th was cancelled?

That's the original 2nd flight. Think the 16th was the first one when the route was announced.

Both of these articles from October 2016 list the 19th as the launch date:

[font=Lato, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The new service[/font][font=Lato, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] with [/font][font=Lato, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]will start[/font][font=Lato, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] on May 19, 2017, with Wow operating four convenient weekly flights on Monday[/font][font=Lato, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif],[/font][font=Lato, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Wednesday [/font][font=Lato, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif],Friday[/font][font=Lato, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][font=Lato, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]and[/font][font=Lato, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Sunday[/font][font=Lato, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] during the Summer 2017 season and then operating three weekly services during Winter 2017. [/font]

http://www.irishcentral.com/travel/wow-air-to-offer-us-routes-to-cork-airport-for-as-little-as-165

[font=Myriad, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]The new service with WOW will start from 19[/font][font=Myriad, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]th[/font][font=Myriad, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] May 2017. The airline will operate four convenient weekly flights on Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday during the Summer 2017 season and will operate three weekly services during Winter 2017[/font]


http://www.southernstar.ie/news/roundup/articles/2016/10/26/4129057-wow-cork-airport-starts-flights-to-iceland-next-may--and-onwards-to-us/

snotboogie

First two months of the year by route compared to 2016:
Irish Airport    Foreign Airport    2016M01    2017M01    2016M02    2017M02
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland London - Heathrow (LHR),Great Britain 26,584 27,193 27,359 27,934
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland London - Stansted (STN),Great Britain 22,646 25,779 24,709 24,876
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Amsterdam (AMS),Netherlands 12,315 11,862 12,496 11,178
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland London - Gatwick (LGW),Great Britain 8,854 9,626 9,247 9,404
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Lanzarote (ACE),Spain 6,548 7,171 6,582 6,215
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Liverpool (LPL),Great Britain 6,299 6,882 6,654 6,585
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Paris - Charles De Gaulle (CDG),France 5,976 6,238 6,632 6,067
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Manchester (MAN),Great Britain 5,488 6,885 5,941 7,077
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Birmingham - Uk (BHX),Great Britain 4,854 5,264 5,700 5,719
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland London City (LCY),Great Britain 3,907 0 5,236 0
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Wroclaw (WRO),Poland 3,046 3,014 2,822 2,853
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Malaga (AGP),Spain 2,724 4,734 2,510 4,828
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Bristol (BRS),Great Britain 2,288 2,441 2,734 2,793
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Edinburgh (EDI),Great Britain 2,220 2,377 2,772 3,277
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Tenerife Sur - Reina Sofia (TFS),Spain 2,089 2,485 1,986 2,277
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Gdansk (GDN),Poland 1,694 1,314 1,409 1,470
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Salzburg (SZG),Austria 1,679 1,280 1,067 1,222
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Munich - Franz Josef Strauss (MUC),Germany 1,266 1,006 1,158 1,054
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Las Palmas (LPA),Spain 1,233 2,142 1,055 1,927
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Glasgow (GLA),Great Britain 1,143 1,504 1,420 1,835
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Newcastle (NCL),Great Britain 419 860 538 1,101
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Cardiff (CWL),Great Britain 291 814 891 1,081
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Southampton (SOU),Great Britain 0 889 0 1,040
Cork (ORK),Republic Of Ireland Roma - Fiumincino (FCO),Italy 0 0 0 335

lisasimpson

Cardiff seems to have benefited from the flight time change (i know rugby impacted that too). AMS down probably due to increase in frequency else where
Will be interesting to see how the new routes from last year ie Madrid fair out compared to last summer.