Cork Airport - *Read Mod Note in First Post Before Posting*

Rhys Essien

Looks like the sale of Aer Lingus could be going ahead shortly.The EU and Ryanair have given the ok.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/11730942/Ryanair-to-allow-IAG-takeover-of-Aer-Lingus.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/0710/713833-ryanair-iag-bid/

The government will now have the money to make Cork Airport independent.The chances of it happening.:rolleyes:

Jamie2k9

snotboogie wrote: »

Moving the EBC to Dublin wasn't an option, they only have a handful of people in a sales office there. They already have an EBC and full operations in London. Their clients weren't happy with a 3 hour trek down to Cork from DUB or even the shorter drive from Shannon. EMC are putting the squeeze on for a direct Boston flight once a week.

Ok fair enough but the routes Cork have lost between 2880-2014 were primarily Irish bucket and spade services and Eastman European service. Hardly investment routes.

This move is not because of lack of air connections

rob316

pwurple wrote: »

I guess I'm old enough to have some buddies long in the tooth in EMC. They constantly mention the problem getting flights out of cork. It's a pain in the backside. Same for any of the other global companies in cork. Apple, j&j etc. the issue has high visibility in corporates.

Direct flights to heaps of business destinations just do not exist anymore, or are scheduled at utterly pointless times/dates for work. Look at that Brussels flight for goodness sake. Useless times.

And then there's the new fiasco of flights being announced, and the route pulled again a few weeks later. Prague, Ibiza for recent examples. It makes the airport seem very unreliable.

What business people want is pretty simple. a flight in the morning, and a flight back in the evening, so they can catch a couple of meetings. It doesn't have to be every day, two or three days a week would do.

Driving to Dublin, getting a flight from there, fly back there, and drive home again is unreasonable for that kind of work.

Mate of mine works in R&D in EMC in Ovens and is saying a while its causing big problems. A rep of a prospective buyer just wants to fly in and fly out as quick as possible, no hassle. Driving for almost 3 hours up and down is adding a day onto a simple journey.

EMC have a private jet and hangar up in Cork Airport but its reserved for EMC executives.

Ludo

rob316 wrote: »

Mate of mine works in R&D in EMC in Ovens and is saying a while its causing big problems. A rep of a prospective buyer just wants to fly in and fly out as quick as possible, no hassle. Driving for almost 3 hours up and down is adding a day onto a simple journey.

EMC have a private jet and hangar up in Cork Airport but its reserved for EMC executives.

If the "rep" really mattered then EMC would use their own jet instead of making a big song and dance about connectivity. And is it a regular trip or once off. Should some airline open a new uneconomical route just for him to wherever he needs to come from? As for this team that are relocating...I am assuming they regularly travel to many off site location (could be wrong there but that is the impression I got). Cork was never going to be the right location for them...just like many many other European cities would also be unsuitable. Again why can't they use their own jet for them?

Yes obviously more routes would make Cork a more attractive location BUT we are a tiny city on the very outskirts of Europe (so never going to be a transit location). There is never going to be good connections from here. EMC always knew this as do all companies who locate here. A lot of them have their own jets available for this reason and others hire jets as needed.

snotboogie

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Ok fair enough but the routes Cork have lost between 2880-2014 were primarily Irish bucket and spade services and Eastman European service. Hardly investment routes.

This move is not because of lack of air connections

Cork - Dublin stands out. You'd imagine they were flying people into Cork from the states via that route.

snotboogie

Ludo wrote: »

If the "rep" really mattered then EMC would use their own jet instead of making a big song and dance about connectivity. And is it a regular trip or once off. Should some airline open a new uneconomical route just for him to wherever he needs to come from? As for this team that are relocating...I am assuming they regularly travel to many off site location (could be wrong there but that is the impression I got). Cork was never going to be the right location for them...just like many many other European cities would also be unsuitable. Again why can't they use their own jet for them?

Yes obviously more routes would make Cork a more attractive location BUT we are a tiny city on the very outskirts of Europe (so never going to be a transit location). There is never going to be good connections from here. EMC always knew this as do all companies who locate here. A lot of them have their own jets available for this reason and others hire jets as needed.

4,000 prospective clients go through the EBC every year. There is no way they could use a private jet for anything but a tiny percentage of the biggest clients. The DAA aren't selling Cork-Logan or Cork-Newark to any airlines and EMC and Apple are extremely pissed off about it.

pwurple

Douglas Eegit wrote: »

Aerlingus is the sole airline running between the primary hub, Heathrow and cork. EMC now use, when possible, BA between Heathrow and Dublin.
Being in cork, and most of the flight options being with aerlingus this makes this fragile relationship with emc difficult.

You are implying that there is some kind of flight booking embargo on Aerlingus in EMC. This is not true. And frankly, would be a little nutty considering how restricted they are already in Cork with air services.

pwurple

Ludo wrote: »

Yes obviously more routes would make Cork a more attractive location BUT we are a tiny city on the very outskirts of Europe (so never going to be a transit location). There is never going to be good connections from here. EMC always knew this as do all companies who locate here. A lot of them have their own jets available for this reason and others hire jets as needed.

We are a reasonable sized city, punching way above our weight in terms of our excellent shipping port, and the number of massive global employers here. And we need to think WAY outside the city. Where are the big employers? Our manufacturing sector is located in ringaskiddy, little island, Carrigtwohill, Ovens, etc. Mostly outside the city, but all in the airport catchment. Cork County population was 518,000 people last census. Is 1/2 a million people 'small' now?

And when EMC located here... (20-25 years ago?) we didn't have a dwindling airport dropping routes constantly. It was growing. Telling them all to f-off and take their jobs with them when they want air links is ridiculous. The amount of families they are supporting here is massive.

Ludo

pwurple wrote: »

Telling them all to f-off and take their jobs with them when they want air links is ridiculous. The amount of families they are supporting here is massive.

Where on earth did I say that? I work for one of those FDI companies so I have no interest in them leaving. The company I work for hires a jet regularly to get people in and out quickly as it is quite economical.
99% of people working for these multinationals will never or very rarely need to travel on a regular basis. If they do travel from time to time, they are usually going for more than a day so the odd trip to Dublin or via London to get somewhere is not the end of the world. It is only a major issue for very frequent travelers who need to get places quickly. and regularly.

And yes, 500k IS a small catchment area to support a major airport when Dublin is so close and easily accessible.

CB19Kevo

pwurple wrote: »

We are a reasonable sized city, punching way above our weight in terms of our excellent shipping port, and the number of massive global employers here. And we need to think WAY outside the city. Where are the big employers? Our manufacturing sector is located in ringaskiddy, little island, Carrigtwohill, Ovens, etc. Mostly outside the city, but all in the airport catchment. Cork County population was 518,000 people last census. Is 1/2 a million people 'small' now?

And when EMC located here... (20-25 years ago?) we didn't have a dwindling airport dropping routes constantly. It was growing. Telling them all to f-off and take their jobs with them when they want air links is ridiculous. The amount of families they are supporting here is massive.

Cork is doing well with all the multinationals,But i think it must be accepted that it is a very small city,And even a metro population of 518,000 plus would be seen as small outside of Ireland.

Massive potential yes,But a reality of the current situation must be considered.

Flights to Dublin might be no bad thing,Once they are regular.

fuerte1976

Any truth to the story the the Cork - Fuerteventura route is to be restored in time for the winter schedule? I've been told that some flights pulled from Shannon by Ryanair were to be adjusted to work out of Cork.

Jamie2k9

snotboogie wrote: »

Cork - Dublin stands out. You'd imagine they were flying people into Cork from the states via that route.

Well if that was an issue how did they manage for last 8 or so years.....

.red.

rob316 wrote: »

EMC have a private jet and hangar up in Cork Airport but its reserved for EMC executives.

The jet is still in a lot but EMC gave up the hangar a good while back. The story was that they were being charged too much for it which always sounded a bit dodgy.

The hangar is now going to be used by a helicopter servicing an exploratory oil rig off the coast of cork. Itll be there for 6/8 weeks at least flying 2/3/4 times a day.
Last time it was here it was based in waterford and flew empty to cork and back everyday cos there was nowhere to store it here.
Again, this is jobs and money into the airport but as there are no seats available it there wont be a big deal made of it in the media.

Douglas Eegit

pwurple wrote: »

You are implying that there is some kind of flight booking embargo on Aerlingus in EMC. This is not true. And frankly, would be a little nutty considering how restricted they are already in Cork with air services.

Nope, as there is limited other option then this is not the case. I have flown into cork courtesy of emc on board aerlingus.

highlydebased

fuerte1976 wrote:

Any truth to the story the the Cork - Fuerteventura route is to be restored in time for the winter schedule? I've been told that some flights pulled from Shannon by Ryanair were to be adjusted to work out of Cork.

They are flying to Tenerife this winter from SNN instead of FUE, if it were to operate from Cork there would have to be room in the aircraft schedule there

snotboogie

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Well if that was an issue how did they manage for last 8 or so years.....

I don't think it's a case of being impossible, just impractical.

pwurple

Douglas Eegit wrote: »

Nope, as there is limited other option then this is not the case. I have flown into cork courtesy of emc on board aerlingus.

Exactly. As have a whole lot of other Emc employees. I really don't know what point you are trying to make.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Ludo wrote: »

99% of people working for these multinationals will never or very rarely need to travel on a regular basis.

As someone who also works for one of the multinationals in Cork, this is very true. I've seen the number of people who travel drop in recent years due to advances in video conferencing.

snotboogie

munstermagic11 wrote: »

As someone who also works for one of the multinationals in Cork, this is very true. I've seen the number of people who travel drop in recent years due to advances in video conferencing.

They are talking about clients, not employees.

j8wk2feszrnpao

snotboogie wrote: »

They are talking about clients, not employees.

Ludo, who I quoted, spoke of employees.

Douglas Eegit

pwurple wrote: »

Exactly. As have a whole lot of other Emc employees. I really don't know what point you are trying to make.

I give up.

lisasimpson

Aer lingus have doubled their winter service to tenerfe for the coming winter season

Rhys Essien

The deal is done,Aer Lingus are now owned by IAG.Interesting times ahead.The government will pocket ~€350 million.Right being right,Cork Airport should be made independent.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-joins-iag-as-shareholders-approve-deal-1.2321087

Jamie2k9

Rhys Essien wrote: »

The deal is done,Aer Lingus are now owned by IAG.Interesting times ahead.The government will pocket ~€350 million.Right being right,Cork Airport should be made independent.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-joins-iag-as-shareholders-approve-deal-1.2321087

Exclude US routes ex SNN and what exactly has it achieved on it's own, a few FR routes who have not grown since....

Rhys Essien

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Exclude US routes ex SNN and what exactly has it achieved on it's own, a few FR routes who have not grown since....

Cork Airport passenger numbers:

2008 - 3.25m
2014 - 2.14m

Explain this to me.The airport is being strangled forcing people to go elsewhere.

http://www.independent.ie/business/more-than-a-million-fliers-bypass-120m-cork-airport-30975357.html

Jamie2k9

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Cork Airport passenger numbers:

2008 - 3.25m
2014 - 2.14m

Explain this to me.The airport is being strangled forcing people to go elsewhere.

http://www.independent.ie/business/more-than-a-million-fliers-bypass-120m-cork-airport-30975357.html

Explain this at SNN

2006 - 3.639
2014 - 1.639

SNN have not achieved a lot since becoming independent outside a little US growth...

Going alone will not see airlines flock to Cork.

As for using Dublin it is people's choice and dropping fees and adding Ryanair routes won't change this. My home is 1 hour from Cork however my family will drive just over 2 hours to Dublin all the time, they may consider Cork if going to the UK but that's it.

roundymac

Lads forget about 2006/2008 figures, they were off the scale, they are from another time zone, a time when ever one thought they were rich, in reality they were up to their necks in debt.

Jamie2k9

roundymac wrote: »

Lads forget about 2006/2008 figures, they were off the scale, they are from another time zone, a time when ever one thought they were rich, in reality they were up to their necks in debt.

As were 2008 figures at Cork (there peak), airports were carrying unsustainable numbers during the boom and it will be a very long time before they are repeated.

This year will see Cork traffic finish it's decline however it may even achieve small growth if Cityjet go well in the last few months.

Another big loss to Cork is the holiday charter market is gone which Cork was heavily dependent on years ago and today those carriers are either gone or operating are using the cheaper choice of buying seats on scheduled services.

All I am saying is going alone will not suddenly result in an up surge in traffic.

jacobwrench97

It's a shame really reading this forum. Cork airport is in my opinion the best airport in Ireland.
Last year I made sure that even though I live in Dublin, I took a flight to France for a French exchange from there.

It seems to me that the only solution is to increase the traffic, as I heard that the airport closes at 10pm? (Someone correct me if I'm wrong)

Anyway, more ryanair/air lingus flights should be created, and possibly a flight to a US locaton which Dublin Airport won't serve

Cosmo Kramer

jacobwrench97 wrote: »

It's a shame really reading this forum. Cork airport is in my opinion the best airport in Ireland.

Based on what exactly? By almost any metric the best airport in Ireland is obviously Dublin.

People need to get away from the 'put on the flights and the people will come' approach. By and large, if additional routes and frequencies were sustainable they'd be operating.

Cork and Shannon airports are operating at about their levels at the moment. Shannons numbers are gerrymandered a bit by political input and the long term effects of a ridiculous historical bias towards that airport. Other than that, every now and then one will take a few routes from the other but they're one and the same really. Any claims of growth or dominance by either is really just positive spin with no real basis to back it up.

roundymac

Cork does not close at 10 o clock, some flights especially afternoon flights to the Canaries do not return until 12.30/12.45. Dublin is not the best IMO, it offers the greatest range of flights but I will not travell through Dublin if I can help it, I'd rather go through LHR or AMS which is what we are doing next year.
Being seperated does not mean growth straight away, airlines will fly from places if they think they can make money, no other reason. T/A out of Cork, forget it, especially if the M20 goes ahead. Don't listen to what MOL has to say, he's only interested in FR and nobody else and rightly so. SNN is independent and is slowly finding out what it is like to be on it's own. They were fortunate to have several maintainence companies based there, also the size of their runway means they have heavy lift cargo flights, also the majority of T/A diversions.
Also Limerick people are loyal to their root's, unlike the gobsh**es that we have in Cork. Aircoach has never been so busy. I was talking to someone lately who had used the bus to Dublin airport to fly to Memmingham. "Why there I asked, I wanted to go to Munich he replied, why did'nt you fly from Cork direct with EI, I did'nt know they flew there, any way I would'nt fly with EI, I'd rather go to Dublin". So here is the sort of thinking that Cork and possibly SNN are up against when comparing flights with Dublin. It's going to be a long hard road ahead for both airports especially if vested interests start playing one against the other.
Just for clarity the guy getting the bus would have spent a minimum of 6 hours on a return journey, he charges €75 per hour labour in his garage so by 6 = €450.and he'd still get the bus.:mad:

kub

jacobwrench97 wrote: »

It's a shame really reading this forum. Cork airport is in my opinion the best airport in Ireland.
Last year I made sure that even though I live in Dublin, I took a flight to France for a French exchange from there.

It seems to me that the only solution is to increase the traffic, as I heard that the airport closes at 10pm? (Someone correct me if I'm wrong)

Anyway, more ryanair/air lingus flights should be created, and possibly a flight to a US locaton which Dublin Airport won't serve

First wave of flights depart from Cork around 5:55am, still arrive in after midnight and AFAIK the place is open 24/7.

notharrypotter

First wave of flights depart from Cork around 5am

6 Am

kub

notharrypotter wrote: »

6 Am

Fixed it thank you.

.red.

roundymac wrote: »

I was talking to someone lately who had used the bus to Dublin airport to fly to Memmingham. "Why there I asked, I wanted to go to Munich he replied, why did'nt you fly from Cork direct with EI, I did'nt know they flew there, any way I would'nt fly with EI, I'd rather go to Dublin". So here is the sort of thinking that Cork and possibly SNN are up against when comparing flights with Dublin. /I]

To be fair, that guy is obviously an idiot, we're not all that stupid in Cork!

roundymac

.red. wrote: »

To be fair, that guy is obviously an idiot, we're not all that stupid in Cork!

I seem to know a lot of idiots or langers in Cork speak in that case.:eek:

j8wk2feszrnpao

roundymac wrote: »

I seem to know a lot of idiots or langers in Cork speak in that case.:eek:

If you know people that think it's rational to get a 3hr bus (and other 3hrs return) trip to Dublin to get a non-direct flight, rather be arsed to check their local airport and get the direct flight; then yes, they are idiots

If he charges €75 an hour, then he should know the value of time.

roundymac

Things like this happening don't help either.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/tall-order-for-cork-bound-jet-diverted-to-dublin-349221.html

razorblunt

I've read the above article but I wouldn't put a huge amount of blame at their feet.
It was a last minute change of plane, outside the scope of expected plane sizes, they can't have all available steps just sitting there swaying in the wind.

Or would you say they should have at least one type of each step to accomodate emergency landings?
Also could they not have used the bridges?

Should I be more outaged, basically?!

roundymac

No I'm not saying that, but there was at least 150 + people who probably are saying that because they booked to fly to Cork and ended up in Dublin. They won't care who's fault it is but it still looks bad for Cork. As for a set of steps swaying the wind most of these are ajustable to the sige of aircraft, if they had a larger set available the would IMO be able to use it on a 737/A320 type aircraft. (Open to correction on that part and expect to be hung drawn and quarted):D

thomil

razorblunt wrote: »

I've read the above article but I wouldn't put a huge amount of blame at their feet.
It was a last minute change of plane, outside the scope of expected plane sizes, they can't have all available steps just sitting there swaying in the wind.

Or would you say they should have at least one type of each step to accomodate emergency landings?
Also could they not have used the bridges?

Should I be more outaged, basically?!

Well, it's not as if Cork airport hasn't handled aircraft of this size in the recent past. Remember the German Luftwaffe A310 that was sent here for a crew change on the Sail Training Vessel Gorch Fock back in March 2014? Same general size as the Boeing 767. I'd say this is more about deciding which is cheaper for the carter operator: Busing the passengers to Dublin, or picking up the tab for ferrying an empty wide body airliner halfway across the country.

Using the bridge isn't practical, though. I just checked the Cork Charts in the AIP ( http://www.iaa.ie/safe_reg/iaip/Frame1.htm ) and the stands in front of the terminal can take aircraft with a max. wingspan of 38 to 41 meters. The Boeing 767 has a wingspan of 47 meters, so it would have to be parked up near the cargo buildings.

I've also just done a quick search on the internet for the ground clearance of the passenger doors for a Boeing 767. It's door is 4.07 meters off the ground, while that of an Airbus A320, which is a pretty regular visitor to Cork, has a ground clearance of 3.46 meters. That's 60 centimetres of difference, it wouldn't surprise me if even the existing air stairs were capable of that.

razorblunt

Good stuff lads, yet another thread where I make an attempted humorous post only to learn new things!

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Jamie2k9

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

T5 is very congested at LHR I can;t see them moving anytime soon.

Ludo

Any truth to this?

https://twitter.com/EoinBearla/status/647141852299268096

Jamie2k9

He is usually accurate, so big news. So use it it or lose it.

kub

This is interesting, lately i have noticed a lot of billboards around the City advertising Shannon's American routes specifically.

highlydebased

A European Airline not already at Cork apparently. Sounds to me like it'll be a stopover en route to Boston from somewhere.

Jamie2k9

highlydebased wrote: »

A European Airline not already at Cork apparently. Sounds to me like it'll be a stopover en route to Boston from somewhere.

https://twitter.com/irishexaminer/status/647168188178919424

Ludo

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/irishexaminer/status/647168188178919424

So Norwegian Air three times a week. Hope it happens and does well.