Cork Airport - *Read Mod Note in First Post Before Posting*

JCX BXC

marno21 wrote: »

Whatever people say about Knock Airport, at least the locals use it in fairness to them. If more Cork people had this attitude Cork Airport would have more services and higher frequencies.

Same can be said for Shannon and Belfast, too much of a problem is people just getting the bus to Dublin.

Kerry and Knock airports are very much advantaged by their poor road connectivity.

zilog_jones

I always try and fly from Cork whenever possible, even if it's slightly more expensive or I end up flying a bit further away from my destination - as it can work out to be a shorter trip overall.

I often go to Leeds, and doing Cork to Manchester then getting the train to Leeds (about an hour, train station right in the airport) is so much easier than Dublin to Leeds, as just getting to Dublin Airport is a pain in the balls in comparison (not to mention the time it takes).

It's also never taken me more than 10 minutes to check in and get through security in Cork. Maybe I've just been lucky

Dbu

roundymac wrote: »

Anyone know how Providence flights are doing load wise?

I would like to know this as well....bump

j8wk2feszrnpao

marno21 wrote: »

Whatever people say about Knock Airport, at least the locals use it in fairness to them. If more Cork people had this attitude Cork Airport would have more services and higher frequencies.

I really don't get this mindset. The airport is their to serve the customer, not the customer to serve the business.
People in Cork don't have an attitude towards the airport. If it makes financial or time based sense to use it, they will. If not, then they won't.

lisasimpson

But a lot of people dont bother checking cork airport 1st when booking flights. Last sept a few of us went to Madrid and the number of people at work asked what time air coach were we getting. No idea there was a cork service. Youd often see on fly cork fb page people asking for routes that are already served. Madrid just been an example. I hate having to use dub airport.

PS you have to hand it to whoever runs the fly from cork facebook page and actually the airports page too... they have been v active in promoting the routes currently available

roundymac

Todays WOW flight was cancelled,,,,,low numbers maybe?:(

mire

This notion that an Airport can survive from goodwill is extremely naive. An Airport will survive and prosper if its offer is viable-and if there is demand . You don't support your local Airport; you use it. In the same way that you don't support your local train station; you use it.

When cork's transatlantic services fizzle out, I'm sure people will be blaming the lack of local support. Instead, there should be an acceptance that perhaps the whole concept of transit Atlantic flights serving a small city is simply not really viable.

daithi7

mire wrote: »

This notion that an Airport can survive from goodwill is extremely naive. An Airport will survive and prosper if its offer is viable-and if there is demand . You don't support your local Airport; you use it. In the same way that you don't support your local train station; you use it.

When cork's transatlantic services fizzle out, I'm sure people will be blaming the lack of local support. Instead, there should be an acceptance that perhaps the whole concept of transit Atlantic flights serving a small city is simply not really viable.

And what do you think about Shannon???

j8wk2feszrnpao

lisasimpson wrote: »

But a lot of people dont bother checking cork airport 1st when booking flights. Last sept a few of us went to Madrid and the number of people at work asked what time air coach were we getting. No idea there was a cork service.

Well isn't that because they weren't going? If they were also going to Madrid, my guess is that they would have checked.
I also had no idea that there was a Madrid service, caused I haven't looked to travel there; doesn't mean that I wouldn't use it if I did want to.

mire

daithi7 wrote: »

mire wrote: »

This notion that an Airport can survive from goodwill is extremely naive. An Airport will survive and prosper if its offer is viable-and if there is demand . You don't support your local Airport; you use it. In the same way that you don't support your local train station; you use it.

When cork's transatlantic services fizzle out, I'm sure people will be blaming the lack of local support. Instead, there should be an acceptance that perhaps the whole concept of transit Atlantic flights serving a small city is simply not really viable.

And what do you think about Shannon???

?? You referring to catchment? It's bigger than Cork's, whether that's seen as the ultimate insult to cork or not!! . It's an established service. Cork is trying to pretend there's demand left over after you count in two preexisting services in Dublin and Cork. It's deluded really.

Wyldwood

roundymac wrote: »

Todays WOW flight was cancelled,,,,,low numbers maybe?:(

I'm sitting here so disappointed, was all set to fly today and at 8 AM got a text to say there were technical difficulties with aircraft and would be advised of new departure time. Checked arrivals to find it hadn't landed in Cork and Keflavik departures was awaiting an update for departure time. Knew this was bad news but hoped for a replacement plane from somewhere else but at 10.20 got a message to say flight cancelled. Had a whole bunch of hotels booked for the next five nights and Fridays flight was fully booked by the time I got to look. So the whole trip is gone.

snotboogie

mire wrote: »

daithi7 wrote: »

mire wrote: »

This notion that an Airport can survive from goodwill is extremely naive.  An Airport will survive and prosper if its offer is viable-and if there is demand .  You don't support your local Airport; you use it.  In the same way that you don't support your local train station; you use it.

When cork's transatlantic services fizzle out, I'm sure people will be blaming the lack of local support.  Instead, there should be an acceptance that perhaps the whole concept of transit Atlantic flights serving a small city is simply not really viable.

And what do you think about Shannon???

?? You referring to catchment? It's bigger than Cork's, whether that's seen as the ultimate insult to cork or not!! . It's an established service. Cork is trying to pretend there's demand left over after you count in two preexisting services in Dublin and Cork. It's deluded really.

No it's not. Even still, Shannon is mostly reliant on inward traffic from the East Coast, Cork is a much more popular tourist destination then Limerick/Shannon, even with Americans. Despite having no direct flights to the US, American tourists spent more money in Cork and Kerry than they did in Limerick, Clare and North Tipp, much more if you look at the report: http://www.itic.ie/ezine/regionality-look-overseas-visitors-spend-money-ireland/

JCX BXC

snotboogie wrote: »

No it's not. Even still, Shannon is mostly reliant on inward traffic from the East Coast, Cork is a much more popular tourist destination then Limerick/Shannon, even with Americans. Despite having no direct flights to the US, American tourists spent more money in Cork and Kerry than they did in Limerick, Clare and North Tipp, much more if you look at the report: http://www.itic.ie/ezine/regionality-look-overseas-visitors-spend-money-ireland/

Inbound tourism goes to the tourist areas, shock horror.

I wouldn't pay much attention to snotboggles word on Shannon, there is an obvious blinding agenda here. Apperently Shannon's catchment is only Shannon town with 10,000 people, and that Shannon is in the middle of rural county Clare, millions of miles away from Limerick.

mire

snotboogie wrote: »

No it's not. Even still, Shannon is mostly reliant on inward traffic from the East Coast, Cork is a much more popular tourist destination then Limerick/Shannon, even with Americans. Despite having no direct flights to the US, American tourists spent more money in Cork and Kerry than they did in Limerick, Clare and North Tipp, much more if you look at the report: http://www.itic.ie/ezine/regionality-look-overseas-visitors-spend-money-ireland/

Fair points. You are correct about cork being a more popular destination but I think you're missing the point.

Shannon has a larger natural catchment than cork - due to its location within the country. This isn't meant to be a slight against cork's slightly inflated ego! It also has an established transatlantic service with pre clearance etc. Cork's catchment is effectively Cork City and county, and I would argue a little piece of Kerry Tipperary and Waterford.

With an existing transatlantic service only a couple of hours up the road, Cork's attempt to sustain such a service is extremely fragile. The numbers simply don't add up. To be honest there's probably a room for one Sustainable international Airport outside Dublin.

When the two cities are connected by motorway, it is highly likely that one of the airports will suffer because having two competing airports 1 hour apart will not last very long.

fonzy951

mire wrote: »

Fair points. You are correct about cork being a more popular destination but I think you're missing the point.

Shannon has a larger natural catchment than cork - due to its location within the country. This isn't meant to be a slight against cork's slightly inflated ego! It also has an established transatlantic service with pre clearance etc. Cork's catchment is effectively Cork City and county, and I would argue a little piece of Kerry Tipperary and Waterford.

With an existing transatlantic service only a couple of hours up the road, Cork's attempt to sustain such a service is extremely fragile. The numbers simply don't add up. To be honest there's probably a room for one Sustainable international Airport outside Dublin.

When the two cities are connected by motorway, it is highly likely that one of the airports will suffer because having two competing airports 1 hour apart will not last very long.

Cork has away bigger catchment area, 400K alone within 20 miles, lets get real here. Even with all of Shannon's handout's and unfair advantages over the years, its still a struggling basket case. Cork had nearly 500K more passengers than Shannon last year, even after Shannon's debts are written off!!!
There's a reason why they build airports near populated areas and not next to the burren.

JCX BXC

fonzy951 wrote: »

Cork has away bigger catchment area, 400K alone within 20 miles, lets get real here. Even with all of Shannon's handout's and unfair advantages over the years, its still a struggling basket case. Cork had nearly 500K more passengers than Shannon last year, even after Shannon's debts are written off!!!
There's a reason why they build airports near populated areas and not next to the burren.

Yeah because Limerick is soooo far from Shannon, arguments like these just prove that people are actually offended by the existence of airports other than Cork!

fonzy951

JCX BXC wrote: »

Yeah because Limerick is soooo far from Shannon, arguments like these just prove that people are actually offended by the existence of airports other than Cork!

Limerick's population is tiny, the whole population of county Limerick is 195K

marno21

mire wrote: »

Fair points. You are correct about cork being a more popular destination but I think you're missing the point.

Shannon has a larger natural catchment than cork - due to its location within the country. This isn't meant to be a slight against cork's slightly inflated ego! It also has an established transatlantic service with pre clearance etc. Cork's catchment is effectively Cork City and county, and I would argue a little piece of Kerry Tipperary and Waterford.

With an existing transatlantic service only a couple of hours up the road, Cork's attempt to sustain such a service is extremely fragile. The numbers simply don't add up. To be honest there's probably a room for one Sustainable international Airport outside Dublin.

When the two cities are connected by motorway, it is highly likely that one of the airports will suffer because having two competing airports 1 hour apart will not last very long.

You mean the same way there's a transatlantic service less than 2 hours up the road from Shannon/Limerick in Dublin?

Nemanrio

marno21 wrote: »

Would be nice if people from Cork actually used the airport for getting to London/Liverpool/Paris/Amsterdam instead of going to Dublin out of sheer ignorance and not even bothering to check the flights from Cork because it's a "**** airport".

Maybe when the core routes start filling and more people use the airport we might get extra services.

I used Cork airport to get to Stansted and will use it to go to Gatwick.

I don't believe you can fly to Frankfurt,Valencia or Linz from Cork directly which I needed and Cork airport doesn't serve.

Open to correction there.

I always check if there are flights available from Cork at a competitive price. This often isn't the case.

Hope this helps.

snotboogie

mire wrote: »

Fair points. You are correct about cork being a more popular destination but I think you're missing the point.

Shannon has a larger natural catchment than cork - due to its location within the country. This isn't meant to be a slight against cork's slightly inflated ego! It also has an established transatlantic service with pre clearance etc. Cork's catchment is effectively Cork City and county, and I would argue a little piece of Kerry Tipperary and Waterford.

With an existing transatlantic service only a couple of hours up the road, Cork's attempt to sustain such a service is extremely fragile. The numbers simply don't add up. To be honest there's probably a room for one Sustainable international Airport outside Dublin.

When the two cities are connected by motorway, it is highly likely that one of the airports will suffer because having two competing airports 1 hour apart will not last very long.

Ya Shannon is in a better geographical location and has a larger greater catchment but Cork has a much bigger direct catchment, with a bigger population than Limerick, Clare and Tipp combined. That is the crux of the debate which has been had over and over here.

The point is also that Cork has far more American FDI and is far more popular with American tourists. It is the more natural choice for Trans Atlantic but suffers due to the runway and to a lesser extent the general osmosis of Shannon transatlantic being in place for so long.

snotboogie

Nemanrio wrote: »

I used Cork airport to get to Stansted and will use it to go to Gatwick.

I don't believe you can fly to Frankfurt,Valencia or Linz from Cork directly which I needed and Cork airport doesn't serve.

Open to correction there.

I always check if there are flights available from Cork at a competitive price. This often isn't the case.

Hope this helps.

Linz airport is smaller than Knock, Stansted is the only airport serving it in the UK and Ireland, why would Cork have a flight to there?

Valencia while far more realistic is too niche imo, you'd have close to zero Spanish traffic and Valencia isn't a major destination, at least not on the level of Malaga, Madrid and Barcelona.

Frankfurt will be tried some time in the future I'd imagine

Nemanrio

snotboogie wrote: »

Linz airport is smaller than Knock, Stansted is the only airport serving it in the UK and Ireland, why would Cork have a flight to there?

Valencia while far more realistic is too niche imo, you'd have close to zero Spanish traffic and Valencia isn't a major destination, at least not on the level of Malaga, Madrid and Barcelona.

Frankfurt will be tried some time in the future I'd imagine

Re: Linz I didn't say there should be a route there. Merely stating I needed to go there and couldn't go directly.

Can you fly directly to say Vienna, Salzburg
or Innsbruck (assuming there is an airport there)/

How about Berlin, Budapest or Lisbon?

Quite significant European destinations imo & yet seem to be ignored which is ballache & a pity.

snotboogie

Nemanrio wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

Linz airport is smaller than Knock, Stansted is the only airport serving it in the UK and Ireland, why would Cork have a flight to there?

Valencia while far more realistic is too niche imo, you'd have close to zero Spanish traffic and Valencia isn't a major destination, at least not on the level of Malaga, Madrid and Barcelona.

Frankfurt will be tried some time in the future I'd imagine

Re: Linz I didn't say there should be a route there. Merely stasting I needed to go there and couldn't go directly.

Can you fly directly to say Vienna, Salzburg
or Innsbruck (assuming there is an airport there)/

How about Berlin, Budapest or Lisbon?

Quite significant European destinations imo & yet seem to be ignored which is ballache & a pity.

If we've seen anything from Cork Airport in the last 10 years it's that European city break locations don't survive. Vienna, Budapest and Lisbon would all provide essentially no inward traffic, extremely limited business travel and little to no connection opportunities. The Cork-Munich route has far more inward traffic, more business links and a lot more connection options and that route is averaging just under 1k a month. How would the Budapest or Vienna traffic look? Cork can't compete with the volume of flights out of Dublin to European cities, Cork is usually able to offer two to four flights a week, whereas Dublin can offer up to two a day, usually at better prices. It's a mix of Dublin Airport being so successful and accessible and Cork not having the population or the business links to support the mainland city routes.

The Amsterdam and Paris routes are the only proper connections to mainland European cities and survive on connections, business links and the supplements of French and Benelux traffic. Complaining about links to Europe is like complaining about the weather, it's nobody's fault and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

Cork Lass

zilog_jones wrote: »

I always try and fly from Cork whenever possible, even if it's slightly more expensive or I end up flying a bit further away from my destination - as it can work out to be a shorter trip overall.

I often go to Leeds, and doing Cork to Manchester then getting the train to Leeds (about an hour, train station right in the airport) is so much easier than Dublin to Leeds, as just getting to Dublin Airport is a pain in the balls in comparison (not to mention the time it takes).

It's also never taken me more than 10 minutes to check in and get through security in Cork. Maybe I've just been lucky

I always use Cork airport when travelling to the US. I'll travel Cork to Heathrow and then onwards. Some people say I'm mad to do this but I much prefer it this way as it supports our airport and time wise it works out much the same. If we don't use it we'll lose it.

snotboogie

Cork traffic up 1.5% for June, up just over 1% YTD.
 
2017 has definitely seen a slowdown of growth for all of the Irish airports, Dublin which was hitting in and around 10% growth every month last year has had three months of 4% or less growth. It's at just over 6% growth for the first 6 months vs 11.5% growth last year.

Shannon had a good start to the year but seems to be having a very slow summer, June traffic was down nearly 4% and May traffic also saw a decrease. Shannon is still at half a percent growth YTD. Knock is doing well with over 5% growth but wild swings month to month.

.red.

Heard a rumour that WOW will announce the end of their service for KEF over the next few days.
Really poor numbers for the flight and not many using it as a link to the US.
Thinking about it tho I'm kinda blaming poor marketing and the timing of the route.
If i was going to Iceland I'd rather go in the winter, a lot of people have said the same.
Its not a cheap holiday. There's loads of options out of cork during the summer, a week in Spain/Portugal would cost roughly the same for a couple, as a few days in Iceland after spending money and accommodation is included.
From October on the only options will be the Canary islands and maybe the odd faro flight again. I honestly think the KEF route could have competed then, if only cos of a lack of other options.
Pity. I was hoping to go in December or January. Looks like i could be another stat for Dublin.

daithi7

mire wrote: »

Fair points. You are correct about cork being a more popular destination but I think you're missing the point.
....

With an existing transatlantic service only a couple of hours up the road, Cork's attempt to sustain such a service is extremely fragile. The numbers simply don't add up. To be honest there's probably a room for one Sustainable international Airport outside Dublin.

When the two cities are connected by motorway, it is highly likely that one of the airports will suffer because having two competing airports 1 hour apart will not last very long.

You have that spectacularly the wrong way round there Mire. Cork airport has the much larger city &suburbs of 200k in Cork v 60k in Limerick , and the larger population catchment of 500k in Co Cork alone,, v only 195k in Limerick.

Cork also has far more American FDI and more Us visitors, as seen from the figures above. Cork also had a bigger diaspora in the US, with many Irish Americans relatives last leaving this island via Cobh "( aka 'Queenstown'),, etc, etc etc , therfore it is the business case for Shannon international airport that is highly fragile, supported by slightly inflated egos in the mid West and Noonon Gubu economic policies and copies subsidies that we all have to pay for over many years to try to make it viable.

If there's only room for 2 international airports in the Republic it should of course be Dublin & Cork, as they serve the population and urban centres far better than the current highly subsidised Shannon option imho. Put simply they are by far the
Airports that people wish to fly into and out of. So less of the bs!!

snotboogie

.red. wrote: »

Heard a rumour that WOW will announce the end of their service for KEF over the next few days.
Really poor numbers for the flight and not many using it as a link to the US.
Thinking about it tho I'm kinda blaming poor marketing and the timing of the route.
If i was going to Iceland I'd rather go in the winter, a lot of people have said the same.
Its not a cheap holiday. There's loads of options out of cork during the summer, a week in Spain/Portugal would cost roughly the same for a couple, as a few days in Iceland after spending money and accommodation is included.
From October on the only options will be the Canary islands and maybe the odd faro flight again. I honestly think the KEF route could have competed then, if only cos of a lack of other options.
Pity. I was hoping to go in December or January. Looks like i could be another stat for Dublin.

I'd be a lot more worried about the looming Amsterdam issues than Wow. While we're fretting about a speculative (but worthwhile) punt, the third biggest route and an absolute cornerstone the airport is under major threat. I hope the DAA and Cork Airport have some plan.

lisasimpson

I also think the wow flights would have done better in winter than summer its v popular winter destination.
yes the whole code share issue surrounding amsterdam is going to be a problem for the airport. Been a major hub it needs to be saved esp since open skies is unclear with Brexit. Also its important link for the IT and Financial companies many of whom work along side facilitates in India and use it as a connection.
As for Lisbon it would be a popular summer only route. Im probably pushing the wish list a bit far here in hoping for a summer service to Croatia its v popular lol. hopefully in the next few years something might be done about a Berlin and Rome service to name 2 distinations that are often called for. European routes really needs development for Cork in the long run with the generall fall of British tourist coming to Ireland.Not only that, Cork has a sizable number of Europeans not just eastern Europeans living and working here

Nemanrio

snotboogie wrote: »

If we've seen anything from Cork Airport in the last 10 years it's that European city break locations don't survive. Vienna, Budapest and Lisbon would all provide essentially no inward traffic, extremely limited business travel and little to no connection opportunities. The Cork-Munich route has far more inward traffic, more business links and a lot more connection options and that route is averaging just under 1k a month. How would the Budapest or Vienna traffic look? Cork can't compete with the volume of flights out of Dublin to European cities, Cork is usually able to offer two to four flights a week, whereas Dublin can offer up to two a day, usually at better prices. It's a mix of Dublin Airport being so successful and accessible and Cork not having the population or the business links to support the mainland city routes.

The Amsterdam and Paris routes are the only proper connections to mainland European cities and survive on connections, business links and the supplements of French and Benelux traffic. Complaining about links to Europe is like complaining about the weather, it's nobody's fault and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

Can't argue with that. I would agree with you. However you can't expect people to use the airport if it doesn't meet their needs destination wise so looking to other airports is the best option. .