Cork Airport - *Read Mod Note in First Post Before Posting*

snotboogie

Nemanrio wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

If we've seen anything from Cork Airport in the last 10 years it's that European city break locations don't survive. Vienna, Budapest and Lisbon would all provide essentially no inward traffic, extremely limited business travel and little to no connection opportunities. The Cork-Munich route has far more inward traffic, more business links and a lot more connection options and that route is averaging just under 1k a month. How would the Budapest or Vienna traffic look? Cork can't compete with the volume of flights out of Dublin to European cities, Cork is usually able to offer two to four flights a week, whereas Dublin can offer up to two a day, usually at better prices. It's a mix of Dublin Airport being so successful and accessible and Cork not having the population or the business links to support the mainland city routes.

The Amsterdam and Paris routes are the only proper connections to mainland European cities and survive on connections, business links and the supplements of French and Benelux traffic. Complaining about links to Europe is like complaining about the weather, it's nobody's fault and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

Can't argue with that. I would agree with you. However you can't expect people to use the airport if it doesn't meet their needs destination wise so looking to other airports is the best option. .

Ya obviously, if people are complaining about Corkonians going to Dublin Airport to fly to Budapest or Austria they are being ridiculous. Most of the complaints here are about Cork people driving six hour roundtrips for destinations like Amsterdam and the UK routes.  It's often done out of an ignorance of the availability from Cork or to save tiny amounts of money. I know a guy who did the aircoach for a flight to Glasgow, which ended up being a 7 hour roundtrip to get to Dublin Airport, he had to get the bus at 4am. His dates were served from Cork, he went to Dublin to save €40 on the flights.

Nemanrio

snotboogie wrote: »

Ya obviously, if people are complaining about Corkonians going to Dublin Airport to fly to Budapest or Austria they are being ridiculous. Most of the complaints here are about Cork people driving six hour roundtrips for destinations like Amsterdam and the UK routes.  It's often done out of an ignorance of the availability from Cork or to save tiny amounts of money. I know a guy who did the aircoach for a flight to Glasgow, which ended up being a 7 hour roundtrip to get to Dublin Airport, he had to get the bus at 4am. His dates were served from Cork, he went to Dublin to save €40 on the flights.

Glad we are on the same page pretty much.

I have flown from the UK from Dublin. In fact I will be flying to Bristol in August. I didn't use Cork as the was either no flight that day or the times were crap. If the flight times were in my favour I would certainly use it a lot more.

mire

daithi7 wrote: »

You have that spectacularly the wrong way round there Mire. Cork airport has the much larger city &suburbs of 200k in Cork v 60k in Limerick , and the larger population catchment of 500k in Co Cork alone,, v only 195k in Limerick.

Cork also has far more American FDI and more Us visitors, as seen from the figures above. Cork also had a bigger diaspora in the US, with many Irish Americans relatives last leaving this island via Cobh "( aka 'Queenstown'),, etc, etc etc , therfore it is the business case for Shannon international airport that is highly fragile, supported by slightly inflated egos in the mid West and Noonon Gubu economic policies and copies subsidies that we all have to pay for over many years to try to make it viable.

If there's only room for 2 international airports in the Republic it should of course be Dublin & Cork, as they serve the population and urban centres far better than the current highly subsidised shannon option imho. Put simply they are by far the
Airports that people wish to fly into and out of. So less of the bs!!

Again, I think you're missing the point. And taking things a little personally for some strange reason .

Cork is bigger than limerick; I'm aware of that, and please don't be offended - this isn't a critique of cork. However, an international Airport's catchment is much much larger than the city and suburbs; when comparing the viability of the two airports, you are not just factoring in local population - you are also considering a much larger economic hinterland - and whether we like it or not Shannon is much better positioned to serve the non- Dublin catchment than cork is. It currently serves the entire west course as well as the southwest including cork.

Think of it this way, cork has lots and lots of American business, tourism and FDI; it has the largest concentration outside Dublin. Much bigger than Shannon for instance. This is currently adequately served by a combination of Shannon and Dublin airports - no? Even more so when the cork to limerick motorway is eventually completed. For some people, there is a belief that Cork Airport can could somehow carve out a transatlantic market from what's left over after Dublin and Shannon; this is deluded. Evidence of this delusion will be revealed in the next few days when wow announces the failure of its cork venture. I'm sure people will blame poor marketing and maybe Shannon and Dublin. Very few people will admit it was a stupid idea.

When the moterway is completed, there is going to be an almighty political battle between cork and Shannon because both cannot survive doing the same thing.

snotboogie

mire wrote: »

daithi7 wrote: »

You have that spectacularly the wrong way round there Mire. Cork airport has the much larger city &suburbs of 200k in Cork v 60k in Limerick , and the larger population catchment of 500k in Co Cork alone,,  v only 195k in Limerick.

Cork also has far more American FDI and more Us visitors, as seen from the figures above.  Cork also had a bigger diaspora in the US, with many Irish Americans relatives last leaving this island via Cobh "( aka 'Queenstown'),, etc, etc etc , therfore it is the business case for Shannon international airport that is highly fragile, supported by slightly inflated egos in the mid West and Noonon Gubu economic policies and copies subsidies that we all have to pay for over many years to try to make it viable.

If there's only room for 2 international airports in the Republic it should of course be Dublin & Cork,  as they serve the population and urban centres far better than the current highly subsidised shannon option imho. Put simply they are by far  the
Airports that people wish to fly into and out of. So less of the bs!!

Again, I think you're missing the point.  And taking things a little personally for some strange reason .

Cork is bigger than limerick; I'm aware of that, and please don't be offended - this isn't a critique of cork.  However, an international Airport's catchment is much much larger than the city and suburbs; when comparing the viability of the two airports, you are not just factoring in local population - you are also considering a much larger economic hinterland - and whether we like it or not Shannon is much better positioned to serve the non- Dublin catchment than cork is.  It currently serves the entire west course as well as the southwest including cork.

Think of it this way, cork has lots and lots of American business, tourism and FDI; it has the largest concentration outside Dublin.  Much bigger than Shannon for instance.  This is currently adequately served by a combination of Shannon and Dublin airports - no?  Even more so when the cork to limerick motorway is eventually completed.  For some people, there is a belief that Cork Airport can could somehow carve out a transatlantic market from what's left over after Dublin and Shannon; this is deluded.  Evidence of this delusion will be revealed in the next few days when wow announces the failure of its cork venture.  I'm sure people will blame poor marketing and maybe Shannon and Dublin.  Very few people will admit it was a stupid idea.

When the moterway is completed, there is going to be an almighty political battle between cork and Shannon because both cannot survive doing the same thing.

If Shannon has a much bigger catchment area then why does Cork get more traffic? I mean take the London routes they compete on, in 2016 Cork had 47% more traffic to Heathrow, 42% more traffic to Stansted and 8% more traffic to Gatwick. Overall Cork had nearly 40% more traffic to London airports on the routes they directly compete on. This year its looking worse with over 50% more traffic from Cork. Also in absolute terms Cork airport gets more traffic than Shannon. Again, if Shannon has the bigger catchment, why is this so?

You can say the London traffic difference is driven by transit traffic to US routes served directly by Shannon but it also holds true for Stansted.

I also don't see how flights to Iceland failing proves that direct transatlantic routes to major cities on the East Coast cannot work from Cork. It's a ridiculous conclusion.

satanta99

mire wrote: »

Think of it this way, cork has lots and lots of American business, tourism and FDI; it has the largest concentration outside Dublin. Much bigger than Shannon for instance. This is currently adequately served by a combination of Shannon and Dublin airports - no? Even more so when the cork to limerick motorway is eventually completed. For some people, there is a belief that Cork Airport can could somehow carve out a transatlantic market from what's left over after Dublin and Shannon; this is deluded. Evidence of this delusion will be revealed in the next few days when wow announces the failure of its cork venture. I'm sure people will blame poor marketing and maybe Shannon and Dublin. Very few people will admit it was a stupid idea.

These American Businesses, tourists and FDI were never solely dependent on Shannon and Dublin. Stand in the queue for any of the four flights a day from Cork to Heathrow and you will see large numbers of corporate passengers and tourists boarding to connect onwards to the United States. I'd argue that connecting in Heathrow is still the most efficient route to most urban areas in the U.S. from the Cork Metropolitan area. Norwegian is great if you are going to Providence or Boston (and I'm sure that there is a sustainable market for this point to point traffic), but anywhere else, connecting at Heathrow is way more convenient that travelling to Shannon or Dublin.

The M20 will go both ways whenever it is finally completed and I would question what impact it will have on the viability of Shannon's connections to Heathrow with Cork only an hour down the road from Limerick.

WOW isn't a direct transatlantic service, it is a connecting flight via a marginal short break destination. If it does get cancelled after this season it should have absolutely no bearing on the further development of direct transatlantic flights from Cork.

The efforts to carve out a transatlantic market from Cork is not an attempt to scrape up the leftovers from Shannon and Dublin. To me it is an attempt to divert passengers from connecting at Heathrow and driving passenger numbers with convenient access to the South West.

RebelCork17

roundymac wrote: »

Anyone know how Providence flights are doing load wise?

Hi, first post on here.
Mid July to Mid August there are 14 ORK-PVD flights in a row fully sold out and inbound is very busy. Roughly 130-140 on each flight. Immigration waiting time isn't long either as there are no other arrivals at 08:30. 737 max is expected in Cork over the next few weeks.

As for posts regarding WOW. They will almost definitely be gone by the end of October, at least twice they have cancelled the Cork flight because of a tech issue. You can be sure if the aircraft, for example, to Dublin was tech but with a higher pax load they would use the aircraft scheduled for Cork as it will cost them a lot less. 60-100 pax on an a320 isn't going to last very long.

lisasimpson

RebelCork17 wrote: »

Hi, first post on here.
Mid July to Mid August there are 14 ORK-PVD flights in a row fully sold out and inbound is very busy. Roughly 130-140 on each flight. Immigration waiting time isn't long either as there are no other arrivals at 08:30. 737 max is expected in Cork over the next few weeks.

Great news...long may it last.

In fairness Wow service..well that was always a bit of a stab in the dark anyways.

As for Shannon Cork airport thing I believe both can do even if the M20 gets built. Even with limited routes at the moment there are different destinations from both. Shannon also has the expanding Galway in its catchment. Population growing in both catchments too.They can be good alternative to using Dublin depending on where your going.
Cork can extend its catchment. Youd rarely hear it advertised in Tipp for example even though theres a motorway down to Cork.parts of that county are as close to Cork as it is Shannon

fonzy951

mire wrote: »

Again, I think you're missing the point. And taking things a little personally for some strange reason .

Cork is bigger than limerick; I'm aware of that, and please don't be offended - this isn't a critique of cork. However, an international Airport's catchment is much much larger than the city and suburbs; when comparing the viability of the two airports, you are not just factoring in local population - you are also considering a much larger economic hinterland - and whether we like it or not Shannon is much better positioned to serve the non- Dublin catchment than cork is. It currently serves the entire west course as well as the southwest including cork.

Think of it this way, cork has lots and lots of American business, tourism and FDI; it has the largest concentration outside Dublin. Much bigger than Shannon for instance. This is currently adequately served by a combination of Shannon and Dublin airports - no? Even more so when the cork to limerick motorway is eventually completed. For some people, there is a belief that Cork Airport can could somehow carve out a transatlantic market from what's left over after Dublin and Shannon; this is deluded. Evidence of this delusion will be revealed in the next few days when wow announces the failure of its cork venture. I'm sure people will blame poor marketing and maybe Shannon and Dublin. Very few people will admit it was a stupid idea.

When the moterway is completed, there is going to be an almighty political battle between cork and Shannon because both cannot survive doing the same thing.

Shannon's catchment area - what a joke that is, it had only 1.75 million passengers last year and falling this year.

JCX BXC

fonzy951 wrote: »

Shannon's catchment area - what a joke that is, it had only 1.75 million passengers last year and falling this year.

Cork had "only" 2.23 million?

I've never seen pettiness like it, really!

Cork is bigger than Limerick, yes, fact of life! However if there are adults making some of the remarks above, I'd really suggest you grow up a little, like really!

Cork airport will always have more passengers than Shannon, however the markets are fundamentally different hence Corks sway towards UK and EU routes and Shannon's sway towards US routes.

JCX BXC

lisasimpson wrote: »

Great news...long may it last.

In fairness Wow service..well that was always a bit of a stab in the dark anyways.

As for Shannon Cork airport thing I believe both can do even if the M20 gets built. Even with limited routes at the moment there are different destinations from both. Shannon also has the expanding Galway in its catchment. Population growing in both catchments too.They can be good alternative to using Dublin depending on where your going.
Cork can extend its catchment. Youd rarely hear it advertised in Tipp for example even though theres a motorway down to Cork.parts of that county are as close to Cork as it is Shannon

I doubt Norwegian helped Wow Either.

Nice view of the situation here Lisasimpson, one I'd agree with.

fonzy951

JCX BXC wrote: »

Cork had "only" 2.23 million?

I've never seen pettiness like it, really!

Cork is bigger than Limerick, yes, fact of life! However if there are adults making some of the remarks above, I'd really suggest you grow up a little, like really!

Cork airport will always have more passengers than Shannon, however the markets are fundamentally different hence Corks sway towards UK and EU routes and Shannon's sway towards US routes.

I think your silly post should be directed towards "mire" my friend, i'm just responding with hard facts. The only childish pettiness is emanating from your own post, and its you who needs to grow up.

lisasimpson

JCX BXC wrote: »

I doubt Norwegian helped Wow Either.

Nice view of the situation here Lisasimpson, one I'd agree with.

Thanks many might not.
Im based in tipp prefer to use either over dublin. Even the thoughts of dealing with traffic getting to dublin and know of people missing flights due to crashes on M50. 1 example of how both could benefit and ive said it before both are v handy if you are travelling with young kids
My favourite is Cork to use maybe its coz i lived in Cork for yrs and im so use to it

hondabanner

ive been a silent observer in this thread in the last few weeks and to be honest i cant get over how jealous ye are of shannons transatlantic services, nearly every post ye mention shannon, the most ye will ever get is that flight to providence yer runway isnt big enough so get over it.

Cork Lass

hondabanner wrote: »

ive been a silent observer in this thread in the last few weeks and to be honest i cant get over how jealous ye are of shannons transatlantic services, nearly every post ye mention shannon, the most ye will ever get is that flight to providence yer runway isnt big enough so get over it.

Perhaps you'd oblige us and stay silent.

TheDriver

I wouldn't be at all jealous of Shannon. Look at departures most days and take out the relatively small number of US flights (even less so in winter) and there's very little flights compared to most days in Cork.
Its also a case in Shannon after security that you turn left for nice pre clearance lounge or right for fairly dingy terminal for European flights

JCX BXC

It's quite funny really, the begrudging is unreal! Be sure you don't see this on any other airport threads?

marno21

Wow Air confirmed gone after September: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/wow-air-axes-cork-to-iceland-flights-after-just-five-months-455975.html

Decision on 2018 to be made yet. I can't see it staying though.

TheDriver

No surprise, even cancelling a few services before they stop says it all

sozbox

No surprise.

Flown that route a few times and the planes were always 40% full.

If people want a service they have to be willing to use and support it. People were simply not using this.

roundymac

To be fair it is an unique destination, would not be everybodys cup of tea.

highlydebased

TheDriver wrote: »

Its also a case in Shannon after security that you turn left for nice pre clearance lounge or right for fairly dingy terminal for European flights

Not really the case anymore considering it has been extensively renovated

snotboogie

hondabanner wrote: »

ive been a silent observer in this thread in the last few weeks and to be honest i cant get over how jealous ye are of shannons transatlantic services, nearly every post ye mention shannon, the most ye will ever get is that flight to providence yer runway isnt big enough so get over it.

Seems that's not true
"Cork- US routes may hurt Shannon" aerlingus
A321 neo seems at least in theory be able to serve transatlantic from Cork to New York

hegarty147

sozbox wrote: »

No surprise.

Flown that route a few times and the planes were always 40% full.

If people want a service they have to be willing to use and support it. People were simply not using this.

I dont think that is completely true. I am living in Toronto and I wanted to fly home at xmas I deliberately wanted to support wow air and cork airport but when I looked at dates I was travelling in all cases wow air/norweigan was much more expensive than aer lingus/air canada. The main reason is that once you add on all the extras with wow air such as luggage maybe a bigger seat (I am 6 foot 4) it was 150 dollars more than Air Canada flying into Dublin. If it was 50 dollars Id go to Cork but it was just too much of a difference. Also even if they prices were equal the stop over in Iceland is annoying when your not saving much money. I have many friends in Toronto who were very excited about WOW air/Norweigan but none are flying this xmas because its just not worth it.

namloc1980

Disappointing but Wow are not really a low fares airline. Their baggage fees in particular are exhorbitant. Charging for carry on baggage doesn't sit well with people. Plus Iceland is a very expensive destination.

mire

Another cork route fails. I wonder why.

marno21

mire wrote: »

Another cork route fails. I wonder why.

You don't need to wonder. The reasons for its failure are all well outlined in the posts that preceed yours.

JCX BXC

hegarty147 wrote: »

I dont think that is completely true. I am living in Toronto and I wanted to fly home at xmas I deliberately wanted to support wow air and cork airport but when I looked at dates I was travelling in all cases wow air/norweigan was much more expensive than aer lingus/air canada.

No you didn't, as Wow never released a winter schedule for cork.

marno21

hegarty147 wrote: »

I dont think that is completely true. I am living in Toronto and I wanted to fly home at xmas I deliberately wanted to support wow air and cork airport but when I looked at dates I was travelling in all cases wow air/norweigan was much more expensive than aer lingus/air canada. The main reason is that once you add on all the extras with wow air such as luggage maybe a bigger seat (I am 6 foot 4) it was 150 dollars more than Air Canada flying into Dublin. If it was 50 dollars Id go to Cork but it was just too much of a difference. Also even if they prices were equal the stop over in Iceland is annoying when your not saving much money. I have many friends in Toronto who were very excited about WOW air/Norweigan but none are flying this xmas because its just not worth it.

Fly to Cork via LHR and you can support Cork Airport and cut out the 280km+ journey to Dublin Airport

snotboogie

Foreign Airport    2016M04    2017 M04 Diff %
London - Heathrow (LHR),Great Britain 30,744 33,168 2,424 7.88%
London - Stansted (STN),Great Britain 26,769 31,103 4,334 16.19%
Amsterdam (AMS),Netherlands 14,920 15,088 168 1.13%
London - Gatwick (LGW),Great Britain 9,884 10,697 813 8.23%
Lanzarote (ACE),Spain 8,935 10,410 1,475 16.51%
Faro (FAO),Portugal 8,654 9,259 605 6.99%
Manchester (MAN),Great Britain 8,103 9,519 1,416 17.48%
Malaga (AGP),Spain 8,033 10,995 2,962 36.87%
Paris - Charles De Gaulle (CDG),France 7,810 8,642 832 10.65%
Liverpool (LPL),Great Britain 6,381 5,713 -668 -10.47%
London City (LCY),Great Britain 6,276 0 -6,276 -100.00%
Birmingham - Uk (BHX),Great Britain 6,054 6,652 598 9.88%
Wroclaw (WRO),Poland 3,280 3,291 11 0.34%
Bristol (BRS),Great Britain 3,235 3,639 404 12.49%
Las Palmas (LPA),Spain 3,060 2,451 -609 -19.90%
Edinburgh (EDI),Great Britain 3,021 4,440 1,419 46.97%
Palma (PMI),Spain 2,744 2,572 -172 -6.27%
Gdansk (GDN),Poland 2,729 3,230 501 18.36%
Tenerife Sur - Reina Sofia (TFS),Spain 2,444 2,482 38 1.55%
Glasgow (GLA),Great Britain 1,842 2,292 450 24.43%
Newcastle (NCL),Great Britain 1,552 1,213 -339 -21.84%
Munich - Franz Josef Strauss (MUC),Germany 1,531 1,158 -373 -24.36%
Southampton (SOU),Great Britain 1,327 2,191 864 65.11%
Cardiff (CWL),Great Britain 960 1,195 235 24.48%
170,288 181,400 11,112 6.53%

lisasimpson

What month is that for...Munich taking a hit..id be worried about that route