Cork Airport - *Read Mod Note in First Post Before Posting*

SleetAndSnow

fonzy951 wrote: »

Cork has high frequency connections to keys hubs Heathrow, Schiphol or CDG and that's how the vast majority connect to the US from Cork especially for business pax. Norweigan is fine for tourists in summer, but imo business pax were put off by the location of TF Green and the frequency of service.

From what I could tell and what I read, companies such as Boston Scientific etc were delighted with the service and were using it quite regularly, so its more general consumers not using the flight vs business.

JCX BXC

Meursault wrote: »

Its a lot more viable than SNN,

And this is exactly it.

What does it generally all boil down to? 'Shannon has it so we can definitely have it, and that's not debateable'. Yet here we are, and the supposed amazingly viable and gold mine route is suspended for the winter.

However, the ignorance shall continue. Any reason other than actually admitting there may be lack of a market, in the winter at least, will be jumped on and clung to for dear life.

JackieChang

Poor Cork Airport.

They're going to have to edit their Twitter bio too.

"Official Twitter site for Ireland's newest transatlantic airport"

SleetAndSnow

JackieChang wrote: »

Poor Cork Airport.

They're going to have to edit their Twitter bio too.

"Official Twitter site for Ireland's newest transatlantic airport"

Well its still a transatlantic airport? It still has summer flights.

JCX BXC

JackieChang wrote: »

Poor Cork Airport.

They're going to have to edit their Twitter bio too.

"Official Twitter site for Ireland's newest transatlantic airport"

Maybe just add seasonal in

That also brings me to another point, the thought of the sheer resources put into this project to appease what seems like pipe dreams, where European services were neglected until this was achieved. Look at what services were acquired once they managed to lessen the burden of their political interference to get Norwegian the licence! Cork has alot of potential in some areas still yet, would be a shame to ignore it.

Schorpio

mire wrote: »

Don't be so sensitive. My evidence is the announcement by Norwegian airlines. The reason cork doesn't have successful transatlantic connections is that it's not currently viable. It's very simple - Not enough people used the service.

I think you've missed the point of my previous post - you're using this one flight to dismiss the idea that ANY transatlantic route from Cork is viable. Surely you can see that's illogical.

As I said before, this is a budget airline, which doesn't get you directly to Boston. Therefore it's not likely to appeal to business travelers, so stopping the service over the Winter makes sense. However, I have no idea how more expensive, direct-to-city flights would fair from Cork. But you can't dismiss it entirely based on Norwegian's announcement. It's the very definition of a knee-jerk reaction.

fonzy951

snotboogie wrote: »

If you look at the big Massachusetts companies in Cork, that is not the case.

Yeah they would have used it when it was convenient, but with just two flights a week in the winter the majority of pax would still go through the hubs. Most business pax wouldn't be hanging around Boston for days waiting for the next Norweigan departure. Cork has multiple flights daily to keys hubs, that service is difficult to compete with it. Shannon doesn't have the same level of hub connectivity, so much less competition on direction connections.

JCX BXC

Yet when we go back to before the route started, it was all this supposed business travel that would make the route viable.

Shn99

Meursault wrote: »

Its a lot more viable than SNN, but the difference is SNN has pre clearance flights straight in to the cities in the US. Its a huge advantage over the Cork offering. Not blaming SNN or anything like that, but there are huge numbers commuting to London, Dublin, Shannon, etc, to get a connecting flight to the US.

If its alot more viable than SNN why was Corks average load 61% and Shannons 66%? 44% in November compared to SNNs 55%....SNN-PVD was also upped to 4x weekly for the summer....surely cork would have if it was alot more viable? What a foolish statement.

hondabanner

Shn99 wrote: »

If its alot more viable than SNN why was Corks average load 61% and Shannons 66%? 44% in November compared to SNNs 55%....SNN-PVD was also upped to 4x weekly for the summer....surely cork would have if it was alot more viable? What a foolish statement.

Ive noticed in this forum that alot of cork people are jealous of shannons transatlantic services

snotboogie

This is a Cork forum right? I don't think I've ever seen a Cork poster go into the Shannon thread on the Clare forum to dance all over the graves of whatever route was canned, yet with this announcement and the New York one this time last year, look at the volume of the posts that are coming from Limerick/Clare.....

Shn99

snotboogie wrote: »

This is a Cork forum right? I don't think I've ever seen a Cork poster go into the Shannon thread on the Clare forum to dance all over the graves of whatever route was canned, yet with this announcement and the New York one this time last year, look at the volume of the posts that are coming from Limerick/Clare.....

People from all across the world are allowed post on this forum

snotboogie

Shn99 wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

This is a Cork forum right? I don't think I've ever seen a Cork poster go into the Shannon thread on the Clare forum to dance all over the graves of whatever route was canned, yet with this announcement and the New York one this time last year, look at the volume of the posts that are coming from Limerick/Clare.....

People from all across the world are allowed post on this forum

Of course but this is a Cork forum, I don't understand why people are so flabbergasted at a Cork bias here. I follow the Shannon thread because I'm genuinely interested but I've never commented, nevermind celebrated, there after a route cancellation, even if it could benefit Cork. I've never seen a Cork poster do it either. A bit of decency wouldn't go amiss. This and the New York announcement have really hurt.

hondabanner

snotboogie wrote: »

Of course but this is a Cork forum, I don't understand why people are so flabbergasted at a Cork bias here. I follow the Shannon thread because I'm genuinely interested but I've never commented, nevermind celebrated, there after a route cancellation, even if it could benefit Cork. I've never seen a Cork poster do it either. A bit of decency wouldn't go amiss. This and the New York announcement have really hurt.

I follow this forum because I am genuinely interested in aviation too and the Dublin forum also but then when you have ppl saying in the above Post saying that cork is a lot more viable then snn and the likes all I ever hear is shannon shannnon shannon

j8wk2feszrnpao

snotboogie wrote: »

This is a Cork forum right? I don't think I've ever seen a Cork poster go into the Shannon thread on the Clare forum to dance all over the graves of whatever route was canned, yet with this announcement and the New York one this time last year, look at the volume of the posts that are coming from Limerick/Clare.....

There's been plenty snipping at of Shannon in here over the years (the odd time I check it), so you're gonna get some replies back. There is going to be a Cork bias, but there is a line of jealously (and some bitterness) that comes across at times.

Shn99

snotboogie wrote: »

Of course but this is a Cork forum, I don't understand why people are so flabbergasted at a Cork bias here. I follow the Shannon thread because I'm genuinely interested but I've never commented, nevermind celebrated, there after a route cancellation, even if it could benefit Cork. I've never seen a Cork poster do it either. A bit of decency wouldn't go amiss. This and the New York announcement have really hurt.

I havent seen anybody celebrating??? All I see and have commented myself is FACT. for the record SNN had lost PVD for the winter aswell. Its nearly as bad as the conspiracy theorists on twitter claiming SNN and DUB had somthing to do with ORK loosing the route.

JCX BXC

snotboogie wrote: »

This is a Cork forum right? I don't think I've ever seen a Cork poster go into the Shannon thread on the Clare forum to dance all over the graves of whatever route was canned, yet with this announcement and the New York one this time last year, look at the volume of the posts that are coming from Limerick/Clare.....

Really? You've never seen it? You've not been around long, or just have a terrible memory.

I respect your contributions snotboggie, but in this instance it's a clear "I cannot refute your point so I'll try another way"

snotboogie

JCX BXC wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

This is a Cork forum right? I don't think I've ever seen a Cork poster go into the Shannon thread on the Clare forum to dance all over the graves of whatever route was canned, yet with this announcement and the New York one this time last year, look at the volume of the posts that are coming from Limerick/Clare.....

Really? You've never seen it? You've not been around long, or just have a terrible memory.

I respect your contributions snotboggie, but in this instance it's a clear "I cannot refute your point so I'll try another way"

No I genuinely haven't, happy to be proved wrong

Meursault

Shn99 wrote: »

If its alot more viable than SNN why was Corks average load 61% and Shannons 66%? 44% in November compared to SNNs 55%....SNN-PVD was also upped to 4x weekly for the summer....surely cork would have if it was alot more viable? What a foolish statement.

You're misinterpreting my point. Im not talking about this individual route.

SNN has direct flights to the cities in the US and has pre clearance - neither of which is available from Cork.

The point I am making is that you are not comparing like with like.

Anyway, best of luck to SNN. I have nothing against that airport.

Hopefully in the long run Cork will get direct routes to the cities. It will be very interesting to see how that goes. Pre clearance would help too, but that does not appear likely.

fonzy951

Two weekly flights in the winter is a very small loss for the airport, especially to an airport which is well outside Boston. Air France just recently announced a year round daily service to CDG which far outweighs the Norweigan mini-blip. Now both Aer Lingus and Air France fly daily to CDG which increases US connectivity.

So Cork has excellent connectivity to US via the key hubs (Heathrow, CDG, Schiphol). Remember Shannon doesn't have any services to either Schiphol or CDG, and has less frequency to Heathrow, so it relies on its direct connectivity to US, so it should have higher pax on its direct US routes.

snotboogie

fonzy951 wrote: »

Two weekly flights in the winter is a very small loss for the airport, especially to an airport which is well outside Boston. Air France just recently announced a year round daily service to CDG which far outweighs the Norweigan mini-blip. Now both Aer Lingus and Air France fly daily to CDG which increases US connectivity.

So Cork has excellent connectivity to US via the key hubs (Heathrow, CDG, Schiphol). Remember Shannon doesn't have any services to either Schiphol or CDG, and has less frequency to Heathrow, so it relies on its direct connectivity to US, so it should have higher pax on its direct US routes.

I think people are more worried about what it means for the long term future of transatlantic from Cork. How much growth is there left in Europe? There are probably half a dozen seasonal sun routes, maybe a German city link and then? Cork Airport have consistently repeated their goal to break into North America and with good reason.

fonzy951

snotboogie wrote: »

I think people are more worried about what it means for the long term future of transatlantic from Cork. How much growth is there left in Europe? There are probably half a dozen seasonal sun routes, maybe a German city link and then? Cork Airport have consistently repeated their goal to break into North America and with good reason.

But you do realise that the majority from Cork fly via Heathrow, CDG, Schiphol etc. to the US, so its already breaking into the North American market. Look at the huge range of worldwide destinations serviced from these hubs. Frequent daily connectivity to large hubs is awaaaaaay waaaaaay more important to Cork that a few direct connections to the US.

snotboogie

fonzy951 wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

I think people are more worried about what it means for the long term future of transatlantic from Cork. How much growth is there left in Europe? There are probably half a dozen seasonal sun routes, maybe a German city link and then? Cork Airport have consistently repeated their goal to break into North America and with good reason.

But you do realise that the majority from Cork fly via Heathrow, CDG, Schiphol etc. to the US, so its already breaking into the North American market. Look at the huge range of worldwide destinations serviced from these hubs. Frequent daily connectivity to large hubs is awaaaaaay waaaaaay more important to Cork that a few direct connections to the US.

Of course but Schiphol is under huge threat and CDG is underdeveloped as a transit route. Having all of our long haul in the IAG/Heathrow basket is very dangerous. You can see why the airport would want to diversify with direct flights, for growth and stability.

fonzy951

snotboogie wrote: »

Of course but Schiphol is under huge threat and CDG is underdeveloped as a transit route. Having all of our long haul in the IAG/Heathrow basket is very dangerous. You can see why the airport would want to diversify with direct flights, for growth and stability.

Schiphol was under threat last year too but common sense prevailed, its does well overall. No route is ever guaranteed except Aer Lingus Heathrow Tbh the airport should concentrate on maintaining and improving hub connectivity instead of chasing direct US links.

snotboogie

fonzy951 wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

Of course but Schiphol is under huge threat and CDG is underdeveloped as a transit route. Having all of our long haul in the IAG/Heathrow basket is very dangerous. You can see why the airport would want to diversify with direct flights, for growth and stability.

Schiphol was under threat last year too but common sense prevailed, its does well overall. No route is ever guaranteed except Aer Lingus Heathrow Tbh the airport should concentrate on maintaining and improving hub connectivity instead of chasing direct US links.

No reason why they can't do both and judging by the AirFrance announcement they have been

Shn99

"Cork Airport head of communications Kevin Cullinane told Cork’s RedFM that the airport is in talks with various airlines about establishing other transatlantic services from the airport.

“Norwegian is one airline we are speaking to and obviously our route development people are in discussions with a number of other transatlantic carriers in to other opportunities in US and Canada,” Mr Cullinane said.

“So hopefully those discussions will come to fruition this year and we can see an expansion of transatlantic services out of Cork where we can show there is proven demand and that can be met by the supply of an airline.”

Norwegian has floated the idea of a route from Cork to New York, but there are concerns over the length of the runway."


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/norwegian-air-cancels-us-routes-from-cork-and-shannon-1.3450059

zetalambda

mire wrote: »

Has anyone considered the notion that the Cork USA link is and never was viable. Lots of delusion on this issue in Cork.

Not enough passengers. Simple. But I'm sure people will blame it on lack of promotion and other nonsense.

That's like saying that UK flights out of Cork are not viable because a route to Humberside Airport isn't packed all year round!
If anything, Norwegian has shown that TA out if Cork is viable (all year round once the conditions are right).

Regarding the Providence flights, the winter numbers were low from all the Irish airports and if 3 routes need to be consolidated for the winter months then the largest airport, Dublin, will always be the one to benefit.

hondabanner wrote: »

Ive noticed in this forum that alot of cork people are jealous of shannons transatlantic services

I think you're imagining things. Shannon is better suited to TA services but Cork has a far bigger population in its catchment area and much better European links, hence the big difference in passenger numbers. I'd have no problem travelling to Shannon to fly to the US. I'd choose Shannon over Dublin every time.

JCX BXC

zetalambda wrote: »

That's like saying that UK flights out of Cork are not viable because a route to Humberside Airport isn't packed all year round!
If anything, Norwegian has shown that TA out if Cork is viable (all year round once the conditions are right).

No, it's like saying Waterford isn't viable because they can't support a flight to Luton. Which it seemingly cannot.

How have Norwegian shown that all year round TA is viable? They've just cut the winter service!

I think you're imagining things. Shannon is better suited to TA services but Cork has a far bigger population in its catchment area and much better European links, hence the big difference in passenger numbers.

Big difference? 1.751million at Shannon vs 2.308million at Cork. About 550,000, granted it's a difference, but not massive by any means.

Where Cork is better, and you've mentioned it yourself, is European routes, especially hub connectivity. Shannon has largely failed here despite attempts, and Cork seemingly ain't doing too well on the TA side of things, despite going above and beyond piling resources to try get these flights.

zetalambda

JCX BXC wrote: »

No, it's like saying Waterford isn't viable because they can't support a flight to Luton. Which it seemingly cannot.

How have Norwegian shown that all year round TA is viable? They've just cut the winter service!




Big difference? 1.751million at Shannon vs 2.308million at Cork. About 550,000, granted it's a difference, but not massive by any means.

Where Cork is better, and you've mentioned it yourself, is European routes, especially hub connectivity. Shannon has largely failed here despite attempts, and Cork seemingly ain't doing too well on the TA side of things, despite going above and beyond piling resources to try get these flights.

Relax sweetheart, it's not personal when I disagree with you on an internet forum.

You seem to have misconstrued my statement about TA from Cork. I can only suggest you read it back again.

Imagine you and I did the exact same job for someone. I got paid 230 but you only got 175. Would you not complain it was a big difference?

marno21

snotboogie wrote: »

I think people are more worried about what it means for the long term future of transatlantic from Cork. How much growth is there left in Europe? There are probably half a dozen seasonal sun routes, maybe a German city link and then? Cork Airport have consistently repeated their goal to break into North America and with good reason.

The Europe question is a tough one because there are German city links available at both Kerry and Shannon and its hard to see where Cork could launch one without doing further market splitting and underlying the viability of all three. Cork Airport have said they would be interested in cities like Prague, which could be viable with properly timed flights.

snotboogie wrote: »

Of course but Schiphol is under huge threat and CDG is underdeveloped as a transit route. Having all of our long haul in the IAG/Heathrow basket is very dangerous. You can see why the airport would want to diversify with direct flights, for growth and stability.

CDG hasn't launched as a transit route yet so that's not surprising. Air France have already made the seasonal route year round so there must be some bit of life in it so far. We'll see what loads are like when it launches.

As for Amsterdam, if EI ever decided to can either it or the KLM codeshare it wouldn't surprise me to see KLM Cityhopper come in with flights designed for connections given the amount of smaller airports they fly into. On current form, the number of weekly Cork-Amsterdam flights would suggest that the Amsterdam route is doing reasonably well.

snotboogie wrote: »

No reason why they can't do both and judging by the AirFrance announcement they have been

In fairness to Cork Airport, there has been a lot of marketing of both European and US routes on the radio in the last few months, with heavy marketing especially on the Cork stations, Limerick station and Spin Southwest. Services to France, Spain, Italy and Boston have all been marketed quite well.

JCX BXC wrote: »

No, it's like saying Waterford isn't viable because they can't support a flight to Luton. Which it seemingly cannot.

How have Norwegian shown that all year round TA is viable? They've just cut the winter service!




Big difference? 1.751million at Shannon vs 2.308million at Cork. About 550,000, granted it's a difference, but not massive by any means.

Where Cork is better, and you've mentioned it yourself, is European routes, especially hub connectivity. Shannon has largely failed here despite attempts, and Cork seemingly ain't doing too well on the TA side of things, despite going above and beyond piling resources to try get these flights.

[/QUOTE]

Waterford cannot sustain a flight to Luton on 30 seater clapped out turboprops run by fly by night airlines. Surprise surprise.

If Waterford had a 2000m runway I'd like to see how they'd get on. Given that Ryanair can manage to maintain so much London capacity out of Cork, Shannon, Knock and Kerry with the volume of London capacity also out of Dublin, there is surely viability for a London service out of Waterford with a 737.

Norwegian have cut most of their Winter services to the US on 737s because the viability is simply not there. The viability of this entire concept is under thread because using brand new 737s to fly half loads to the US and back in a day is very very poor aircraft utilization especially given the fares Norwegian are charging

Norwegian themselves are under threat of not making it through the Winter unless they start making attempts to plug the obscenely large hole in their accounts. The fact that these services have been culled through the Winter is of no surprise. What they're going to do with the aircraft now is a different story.