Cork Airport - *Read Mod Note in First Post Before Posting*

marno21

Personally, I think a full service airline offering service to an east coast hub would be a roaring success from Cork, especially now in recent months aircraft have come on board to allow such a service with Cork's runway. Something like United to Newark, American to JFK/PHL or Delta to JFK would be useful. It would be successful from day 1 as high yielding business customers would use the service from the start, when you have business class/premium economy and a hub on the other side for connections. There is more than enough companies in the Cork area to make the service viable.

Shannon is naturally going to be able to sustain a service from the get go as it's an airport most people in the US and west of Ireland would think of as a goto airport for transatlantic services, mainly because of the Government breastfeeding it has received over the last decades. Cork is a relative unknown as a transatlantic airport and would need time to bed in before it would be successful.

A leisure service on a 737 with no premium economy/business class to a small regional airport in Rhode Island with no stateside connections and poor flight times was always going to be a failure in Winter. The only place it could be successful from is an airport with critical mass like Dublin, which it has been.

SleetAndSnow

marno21 wrote: »

Personally, I think a full service airline offering service to an east coast hub would be a roaring success from Cork, especially now in recent months aircraft have come on board to allow such a service with Cork's runway. Something like United to Newark, American to JFK/PHL or Delta to JFK would be useful. It would be successful from day 1 as high yielding business customers would use the service from the start, when you have business class/premium economy and a hub on the other side for connections. There is more than enough companies in the Cork area to make the service viable.

Shannon is naturally going to be able to sustain a service from the get go as it's an airport most people in the US and west of Ireland would think of as a goto airport for transatlantic services, mainly because of the Government breastfeeding it has received over the last decades. Cork is a relative unknown as a transatlantic airport and would need time to bed in before it would be successful.

A leisure service on a 737 with no premium economy/business class to a small regional airport in Rhode Island with no stateside connections and poor flight times was always going to be a failure in Winter. The only place it could be successful from is an airport with critical mass like Dublin, which it has been.

I agree with this. I just think New York routes are more popular then Boston routes, as we can see with the actual Boston routes struggling in SNN etc. We will not know unless a airline is willing to take a chance, but we shall see.

JCX BXC

zetalambda wrote: »

No point really. Cork airports catchment area has about double the amount of people that Shannon airport has so Cork will always perform better when it comes to total passenger numbers. Plus, Cork is the economic driver for the region.

No other forum would you get away with this level of trolling.

Seriously, a mature discussion is what we try to have.

marno21

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

I agree with this. I just think New York routes are more popular then Boston routes, as we can see with the actual Boston routes struggling in SNN etc. We will not know unless a airline is willing to take a chance, but we shall see.

Business customers are likely a major factor here too with te Boston route

snotboogie

marno21 wrote: »

Business customers are likely a major factor here too with te Boston route

If you look at the major employers in Cork and their bases on the East Coast, that's not necessarily the case. Providence is extremely convenient for them. Frequency was an issue but more so I think the decades of osmosis of BA via London and Aerlingus via Dublin.

marno21

snotboogie wrote: »

If you look at the major employers in Cork and their bases on the East Coast, that's not necessarily the case. Providence is extremely convenient for them. Frequency was an issue but more so I think the decades of osmosis of BA via London and Aerlingus via Dublin.

Sorry, I should've been clear. I meant business customers were/are a major help in sustaining the Shannon-Boston route, through the winter anyway.

Most business customers would fly with the full service airline if the company is paying for it regardless of convenience to Providence though. If Aer Lingus or JetBlue were flying from Cork to Boston I think it'd be a fairly profitable venture for the airline

Nonoperational

marno21 wrote: »

Personally, I think a full service airline offering service to an east coast hub would be a roaring success from Cork, especially now in recent months aircraft have come on board to allow such a service with Cork's runway. Something like United to Newark, American to JFK/PHL or Delta to JFK would be useful. It would be successful from day 1 as high yielding business customers would use the service from the start, when you have business class/premium economy and a hub on the other side for connections. There is more than enough companies in the Cork area to make the service viable.

Shannon is naturally going to be able to sustain a service from the get go as it's an airport most people in the US and west of Ireland would think of as a goto airport for transatlantic services, mainly because of the Government breastfeeding it has received over the last decades. Cork is a relative unknown as a transatlantic airport and would need time to bed in before it would be successful.

A leisure service on a 737 with no premium economy/business class to a small regional airport in Rhode Island with no stateside connections and poor flight times was always going to be a failure in Winter. The only place it could be successful from is an airport with critical mass like Dublin, which it has been.

Absolutely correct. It was very predictable that this would struggle after the initial period. A low cost economy service to a non hub airport is going to have very limited appeal. Even a number of leisure travellers wouldn't go for it, myself included. For a lot of business travellers frequent flyer status, airmails, lounge access etc are a bigger consideration than people think too.

snotboogie

marno21 wrote: »

Sorry, I should've been clear. I meant business customers were/are a major help in sustaining the Shannon-Boston route, through the winter anyway.

Most business customers would fly with the full service airline if the company is paying for it regardless of convenience to Providence though. If Aer Lingus or JetBlue were flying from Cork to Boston I think it'd be a fairly profitable venture for the airline

I think the major carriers were watching Cork-Providence though and if it survived as a year round route it would have been a major boost for one of them to come in with an A321 LR to Logan,JFK or Newark. The fact that Air Canada Rouge completely ignored Cork in their expansion recently isn't a great sign.

Shn99

Id assume the airport management are/were in talks with Primera. Would be great if they could get them to EWR & BOS

marno21

snotboogie wrote: »

I think the major carriers were watching Cork-Providence though and if it survived as a year round route it would have been a major boost for one of them to come in with an A321 LR to Logan,JFK or Newark. The fact that Air Canada Rouge completely ignored Cork in their expansion recently isn't a great sign.

If the major carriers were watching the ORK-PVD route with any bit of interest it would score well. The planes are fairly full during summer and as expected, less than half full during winter. The present loads combined with connecting traffic and business high yield fares would completely change the profitibility of the route.

Shn99 wrote: »

Id assume the airport management are/were in talks with Primera. Would be great if they could get them to EWR & BOS

I would say Primera would work out similarly to Norwegian. No connections on the US side (only BOS/EWR/IAD/YYZ bookable on PF.com)

Someone with a connecting network on the US side is what an airport like Cork needs, and what makes the Shannon flights viable (AA/B6/DL/UA)

roundymac

Too many if's and but's about Cork's ability to operate a T/A service. Pre clearence is a major one, and a beter duty free in Dublin and SNN. Stupid reasons I know but these are some of the ones being floated around here.

Squedward

Its unfortunate cork didn't get the air Canada service, that would have been a better route.

Shn99

Squedward wrote: »

Its unfortunate cork didn't get the air Canada service, that would have been a better route.

A better route than ORK-PVD or SNN-YYZ?

Shn99

Cork Q1 2018

PASSENGERS
January 137,238 +3.8
February 136,898 +3.4
March 155,139 +0.4
Overall 429,275 +2.4 (+9.991)

MOVEMENTS
January 1,368 +5.2
February 1,285 +4.0
March 1,386 -2.9
Overall 4,039 +1.0

CARGO
January 6T +100.0
February 8T +14.3
March 6T 0.00
Overall 20T +25.0

roundymac

If it sticks at May-Sept I'd accept that. Seasonality is the way, all year round forget it.

Squedward

Shn99 wrote: »

A better route than ORK-PVD or SNN-YYZ?[/QUOTE/

I think a ORK-YYZ service would be more beneficial than ORK-PVD.

Shn99

Squedward wrote: »

Shn99 wrote: »

A better route than ORK-PVD or SNN-YYZ?[/QUOTE/

I think a ORK-YYZ service would be more beneficial than ORK-PVD.

without a doubt, offers onward connections to many destinations

marno21

And from a Cork point of view, ORK-YYZ >> SNN-YYZ.

JCX BXC

marno21 wrote: »

And from a Cork point of view, ORK-YYZ >> SNN-YYZ.

And from a Cork point of view, it would be good for them if Shannon just closed down completely.

However Marno, you'd agree we're capable of a higher quality of discussion than that. Otherwise there's no real point is there? Surprised you made that comment at all to be honest. One would assume a Mod of all people would know these things.

JCX BXC

roundymac wrote: »

Too many if's and but's about Cork's ability to operate a T/A service. Pre clearence is a major one, and a beter duty free in Dublin and SNN. Stupid reasons I know but these are some of the ones being floated around here.

The thing is, both the Pre-Clearance and large Duty Free are a product of Transalantic traffic, not the other way around.

Saying that, Cork's duty free isn't too bad, they could invest more, but when there's few destinations outside Europe is there much point?

Masala

marno21 wrote: »

And from a Cork point of view, ORK-YYZ >> SNN-YYZ.

Sometimes.... I can't get this fascination with SNN and ORK airports getting flights to USA!!! I also read on Facebook people in a Kerry anf Mayo moaning that the airports don't have direct flights to the US!!

It looks like a huge amount of work for an airport to secure same. an airport could invest millions to attract same and all at tge expense if an neighbouring airport.

What is wrong in having to drive to SNN to catch a US flight??? Sure some parts of Dublin have to drive tge same distance to get a flight...

Is there something I am missing as to this fixation???

Shn99

Masala wrote: »

Sometimes.... I can't get this fascination with SNN and ORK airports getting flights to USA!!! I also read on Facebook people in a Kerry anf Mayo moaning that the airports don't have direct flights to the US!!

It looks like a huge amount of work for an airport to secure same. an airport could invest millions to attract same and all at tge expense if an neighbouring airport.

What is wrong in having to drive to SNN to catch a US flight??? Sure some parts of Dublin have to drive tge same distance to get a flight...

Is there something I am missing as to this fixation???

Some people wont be happy until Cork has every transatlantic service from Shannon, and until Shannon closes down (which will probably never happen)

JCX BXC

I don't quite think it's as drastic as that to be honest.

However, it's the image and prestige of having such a service that many in Cork seem to crave. For example, the lost route to PVD for the winter has already been replaced by the return of LIS, which will actually provide more passengers on it's 2x weekly flights, however not much has been made of this service. Somewhat understandable in a way, however I fear it may actually be hurting the airport more than helping it.

On another point, it's nice to see those who claim to be impartial spill their bias. There's some really great users on this thread, whom discussion on these topics is respectful and infact enjoyable. There are many others though who don't fit into this category.

In other news, Swiss returns soon (Wednesday).

SleetAndSnow

Swiss is returning Wednesday? Great to see that returning, another airline then Aer Lingus and Ryanair is always great! Swiss did very well last year if I remember due to the Pharma companies etc?

JCX BXC

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

Swiss is returning Wednesday? Great to see that returning, another airline then Aer Lingus and Ryanair is always great! Swiss did very well last year if I remember due to the Pharma companies etc?

For whatever reason, Swiss has been one of the success stories of the airport in recent times.

snotboogie

Masala wrote: »

Sometimes.... I can't get this fascination with SNN and ORK airports getting flights to USA!!! I also read on Facebook people in a Kerry anf Mayo moaning that the airports don't have direct flights to the US!!

It looks like a huge amount of work for an airport to secure same. an airport could invest millions to attract same and all at tge expense if an neighbouring airport.

What is wrong in having to drive to SNN to catch a US flight??? Sure some parts of Dublin have to drive tge same distance to get a flight...

Is there something I am missing as to this fixation???

I don't think that it's an irrational fixation, I believe there is a very good team in Cork and if you look at aviation trends I think it's pretty clear why they are being so aggressive in targeting transatlantic.

JCX BXC

snotboogie wrote: »

I don't think that it's an irrational fixation, I believe there is a very good team in Cork and if you look at aviation trends I think it's pretty clear why they are being so aggressive in targeting transatlantic.

No harm in targeting it, but going above and beyond for something that was clearly only a product of a temporary political situation is more than that.

Also, could you enlighten me on the aviation trends?

MrDerp

Masala wrote: »

Sometimes.... I can't get this fascination with SNN and ORK airports getting flights to USA!!! I also read on Facebook people in a Kerry anf Mayo moaning that the airports don't have direct flights to the US!!

It looks like a huge amount of work for an airport to secure same. an airport could invest millions to attract same and all at tge expense if an neighbouring airport.

What is wrong in having to drive to SNN to catch a US flight??? Sure some parts of Dublin have to drive tge same distance to get a flight...

Is there something I am missing as to this fixation???

I’m inclined to agree, what I’d really like is a 6.30 to Dublin to catch the destinations from there, and have the benefit of pre-clearance for US destinations.

marno21

JCX BXC wrote: »

And from a Cork point of view, it would be good for them if Shannon just closed down completely.

However Marno, you'd agree we're capable of a higher quality of discussion than that. Otherwise there's no real point is there? Surprised you made that comment at all to be honest. One would assume a Mod of all people would know these things.

From a Cork point of view it would be good for Cork if it had services of its own. My post wasn't an anti-Shannon post, I simply remarked that a Cork-Toronto service would be more useful for Cork than a Shannon-Toronto service. I'm not sure what's so bad about that comment? Shannon is quite a trek from Cork at the minute, upto 3 hours from some parts of Cork. That's not going to change for another 8/9 years.

Masala wrote: »

Sometimes.... I can't get this fascination with SNN and ORK airports getting flights to USA!!! I also read on Facebook people in a Kerry anf Mayo moaning that the airports don't have direct flights to the US!!

It looks like a huge amount of work for an airport to secure same. an airport could invest millions to attract same and all at tge expense if an neighbouring airport.

What is wrong in having to drive to SNN to catch a US flight??? Sure some parts of Dublin have to drive tge same distance to get a flight...

Is there something I am missing as to this fixation???

There is a substantial amount of US companies with operations in Cork. There is a large population in Cork that would use them also and there is plenty of demand for US-Cork trips. Cork isn't Kerry/Mayo, it's the 2nd biggest city in Ireland with a disproportionately large amount of US FDI compared to similar cities outside of Ireland.

Kerry and Knock wouldn't be able to sustain services to the US even with the companies located both in Kerry and the North West. It's a poor comparison

As I said before, Shannon isn't easily accessible from Cork.

Shn99 wrote: »

Some people wont be happy until Cork has every transatlantic service from Shannon, and until Shannon closes down (which will probably never happen)

Some people might, although I can't see why they would.

JCX BXC wrote: »

I don't quite think it's as drastic as that to be honest.

However, it's the image and prestige of having such a service that many in Cork seem to crave. For example, the lost route to PVD for the winter has already been replaced by the return of LIS, which will actually provide more passengers on it's 2x weekly flights, however not much has been made of this service. Somewhat understandable in a way, however I fear it may actually be hurting the airport more than helping it.

On another point, it's nice to see those who claim to be impartial spill their bias. There's some really great users on this thread, whom discussion on these topics is respectful and infact enjoyable. There are many others though who don't fit into this category.

In other news, Swiss returns soon (Wednesday).

This has nothing to do with prestige. I don't see why it would. This isn't the 1960s.

roundymac

Masala wrote: »

Sometimes.... I can't get this fascination with SNN and ORK airports getting flights to USA!!! I also read on Facebook people in a Kerry anf Mayo moaning that the airports don't have direct flights to the US!!

It looks like a huge amount of work for an airport to secure same. an airport could invest millions to attract same and all at tge expense if an neighbouring airport.

What is wrong in having to drive to SNN to catch a US flight??? Sure some parts of Dublin have to drive tge same distance to get a flight...

Is there something I am missing as to this fixation???

Plenty, I have to do it every year with the wife, that N20 would wreck your head, especially at 4.AM. When it becomes the M20 it might'nt be too bad, problem is I might be around then. I want it now.