Cork Airport - *Read Mod Note in First Post Before Posting*

hans aus dtschl

I had also thought that passenger numbers were growing and that this was a busy route.

I don't expect Aer Lingus to be a flag-carrier necessarily, but certainly the accusations that IAG were simply buying Aer Lingus for its landing slots seem to be coming true now.

JCX BXC

snotboogie wrote: »

Numbers were growing year on year until the cut in 2017. Without seeing the transit vs Amsterdam numbers it's pretty much impossible to say what would work or not.

It's not really, there isn't room for two of them in the market at frequencies that are actually useful.

snotboogie

JCX BXC wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

Numbers were growing year on year until the cut in 2017. Without seeing the transit vs Amsterdam numbers it's pretty much impossible to say what would work or not.

It's not really, there isn't room for two of them in the market at frequencies that are actually useful.

Seems to be working in Paris, at least in the short term, on a much smaller hub.

Shn99

snotboogie wrote: »

Seems to be working in Paris, at least in the short term, on a much smaller hub.

Do you have statistics on the number of EI bookings per flight after May 26th?

snotboogie

Shn99 wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

Seems to be working in Paris, at least in the short term, on a much smaller hub.

Do you have statistics on the number of EI bookings per flight after May 26th?

What?

Shn99

snotboogie wrote: »

What?

What im asking is how do you know its working in the short term?

SleetAndSnow

https://twitter.com/corkairport/status/994203030076772353?s=21

snotboogie

Shn99 wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

What?

What im asking is how do you know its working in the short term?

I said it seems to be working, I didn't say I know it's working. The fact that AirFrance increased from seasonal to year round is the biggest indicator, the fact that AirLingus went on an advertising campaign in France for the route suggests they aren't giving up on it. We'll see.

revelman

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I don't understand: are you suggesting that the route with Air France in some way compensates for the AMS route?

The AMS route had relatively high usage any time I was on it, I don't understand why it was reduced, the only thing that makes sense to me is that either IAG gave the Amsterdam Aer Lingus slot to BA/Iberia/etc or Aer Lingus took the slot from Cork and gave it to somewhere else (Dublin?).

It's really irritating to see this gradual running-down of route frequency by Aer Lingus, they did it with Munich too.
They're certainly no friend to Cork, so I'm going to be no friend to them: I'll choose competitors where possible.

No I’m not suggesting that at all. In my experience, a significant proportion of passengers on the Amsterdam flight are connecting onwards with KLM. Air France stated that it decided to go year-round based on forward bookings. I’m assuming that forward bookings on the evening Air France flight was already having an impact on the evening Aer Lingus flight to Amsterdam. Air France is offering me cheaper fares on connections that were either unavailable or more expensive with the Aer Lingus/KLM codeshare. Pure speculation on my part but I imagine this is affecting the Aer Lingus Amsterdam flight. The Aer Lingus Paris flight is different since most using it are not in transit.

EdgeCase

Given what's about to kick off in France with strikes, as Macron attempts to reform thw labour market, it's not going to be a very useful hub to use in the medium term.

Amsterdam is a far more reliable option.

zetalambda

snotboogie wrote: »

I said it seems to be working, I didn't say I know it's working. The fact that AirFrance increased from seasonal to year round is the biggest indicator, the fact that AirLingus went on an advertising campaign in France for the route suggests they aren't giving up on it. We'll see.

The concept of pulling out of a market because a competitor enters is akin to business suicide. It also suggests that Aer Lingus are operating as some kind of charity.

revelman

zetalambda wrote: »

The concept of pulling out of a market because a competitor enters is akin to business suicide. It also suggests that Aer Lingus are operating as some kind of charity.

Surely there will be room for both? AF will be operating a 76 seater plane that will surely have signficantlh more passengers transiting at CDG. I suspect that most passengers with Aer Lingus are going point to point.

EdgeCase

Also don't forget that a lot of Irish people do actually fly to and from France for various reasons and there's a very significant French population in Cork and it's sorrounds and a significant Irish population in France in both cases it’s for long term residence, tourism, work, study etc etc.

France is our second nearest neighbour after the UK, so it stands to reason there's significant traffic between the two places. I mean even take Paris, after London it’s our next nearest really seriously big city.

It's more likely that a high % of the traffic is point to point.

Also btw : CDG is arguably easier for access to Brussels as you can grab a TGV or Thalys train directly at the airport and be in to central Brussels in a little over an hour.

You can actually check in to the AF flight and have your bags processed directly at Brussels Midi Station too and carried onwards by TGV.

https://www.airfrance.be/BE/en/local/resainfovol/achat/tci.htm

JCX BXC

zetalambda wrote: »

The concept of pulling out of a market because a competitor enters is akin to business suicide. It also suggests that Aer Lingus are operating as some kind of charity.

Why did Wizz Air pull out when Ryanair entered the market? Would have been suicide to stay!

Airlines won't stay in unprofitable competition for the very reason that they're not

EdgeCase

Ryanair also has local economies of scale - like facilities at cork airport for a lot more than one flight.

snotboogie

zetalambda wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

I said it seems to be working, I didn't say I know it's working. The fact that AirFrance increased from seasonal to year round is the biggest indicator, the fact that AirLingus went on an advertising campaign in France for the route suggests they aren't giving up on it. We'll see.

The concept of pulling out of a market because a competitor enters is akin to business suicide. It also suggests that Aer Lingus are operating as some kind of charity.

What a bizarre post

zetalambda

JCX BXC wrote: »

Why did Wizz Air pull out when Ryanair entered the market? Would have been suicide to stay!

You're comparing apples with oranges. There's a difference between leaving a market and being forced out.

snotboogie wrote: »

What a bizarre post

It's only bizarre to people with no understanding of basic business principles.

Shn99

Cork - UK February 2018
2017 | 2018 | %

London Heathrow 27,950 | 27,752 -2
London Stansted 24,865 | 25,126 +1
London Gatwick 9,313 | 9,158 -2
Manchester 7,022 | 7,761 +11
Liverpool 6,571 | 6,163 -6
Birmingham 5,847 | 5,634 -4
Edinburgh 3,239 | 3,471 +14
Bristol 2,891 | 2,996 +4
Southampton 1,038 | 1,313 +26
Cardiff 1,108 | 1,193 +18
Newcastle 1,099 | 739 -33

TOTAL 92,759 | 93,259 +0.5

zetalambda

Shn99 wrote: »

Cork - UK February 2018
2017 | 2018 | %

London Heathrow 27,950 | 27,752 -2
London Stansted 24,865 | 25,126 +1
London Gatwick 9,313 | 9,158 -2
Manchester 7,022 | 7,761 +11
Liverpool 6,571 | 6,163 -6
Birmingham 5,847 | 5,634 -4
Edinburgh 3,239 | 3,471 +14
Bristol 2,891 | 2,996 +4
Southampton 1,038 | 1,313 +26
Cardiff 1,108 | 1,193 +18
Newcastle 1,099 | 739 -33

TOTAL 92,759 | 93,259 +0.5

I took one look at your statistics and even with my rudamentary maths, I know that the difference between London Heathrow in 2017 and 2018 is less than 1%. In fact, it's closer to half a percentage and i'm assuming the rest of your calculations are probably incorrect too. It's not the first time either you've been spouting your BS statistics in this thread.

Shn99 wrote: »

ORK-PVD carried 1,281 passengers in January, a 28.2% load

marno21 wrote: »

By my figures, there were 9 PVD-ORK and 7 ORK-PVD flights in January, with 189 seats per flight (all flights were operated 7M8), that gives a total of 3,024 seats in January. With 1,281 passengers, that gives a 42.4% load.

JCX BXC

zetalambda wrote: »

It's only bizarre to people with no understanding of basic business principles.

Nope...... just anyone who isn't you Your posting quality and overall coherence feel to a record low lately, so don't pretend you're some amazing business genius, to be honest it's very easy to come to the conclusion that you have the faintest idea what you're talking about most of the time!

Shn99

zetalambda wrote: »

I took one look at your statistics and even with my rudamentary maths, I know that the difference between London Heathrow in 2017 and 2018 is less than 1%. In fact, it's closer to half a percentage and i'm assuming the rest of your calculations are probably incorrect too. It's not the first time either you've been spouting your BS statistics in this thread.

Excuse me? I just copied the statistics and the percentage changes from this link, yes i copied down the LHR stat incorrect(looked at the one above by mistake) , however the rest are correct. lesson learned. https://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/CAA/Content/Standard_Content/Data_and_analysis/Datasets/Airport_stats/Airport_data_2018_02/Table_12_1_Intl_Air_Pax_Traffic_Route_Analysis(1).pdf


If all im going to get is berating and belittling comments from you for posting statistics and (other content) ect ect (which, yes can be incorrect at times and im open to people correcting me in a politely manner) then i wont be wasting my time and effort, find them yourself in future Zetlambda.

SleetAndSnow

Shn99 wrote: »

Excuse me? I just copied the statistics and the percentage changes from this link, yes i copied down the LHR stat incorrect(looked at the one above by mistake) , however the rest are correct. lesson learned. https://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/CAA/Content/Standard_Content/Data_and_analysis/Datasets/Airport_stats/Airport_data_2018_02/Table_12_1_Intl_Air_Pax_Traffic_Route_Analysis(1).pdf


If all im going to get is berating and belittling comments from you for posting statistics and (other content) ect ect (which, yes can be incorrect at times and im open to people correcting me in a politely manner) then i wont be wasting my time and effort, find them yourself in future Zetlambda.

Just report him , I did anyway. Nothing more then a troll

marno21

I'm not getting involved in the above "debate" but:

Ryanair have a history of trying to drive out airlines from airports, with easyJet in the past and with Wizz Air in Cork. This still happens in Dublin with capacity flooding on certain routes e.g. DUB-BHX.

To my knowledge, Aer Lingus don't provide connecting flights with any airline via CDG. It's purely an O&D route. Air France's new ORK-CDG route is firstly to provide competition on long haul routes, to compete especially with EI/BA via LHR. If Air France were interested in providing an O&D route with competitive fares they wouldn't be using an Embraer 175 on the route. If Air France-KLM are also forward thinking in relation to the termination of the EI/KL codeshare on ORK-AMS, they may be trying to build a foundation for capturing some of the connecting traffic via CDG instead. AMS is experiencing constraints with slots and it's possible KLM Cityhopper would start an AMS-ORK route if EI ended the codeshare but given AF/KLM are the same company they may be exploring routing long haul traffic via CDG instead.

Given the lack of any long haul routes ex Cork (especially with no EK/EY/QR/TK) and the fact that this isn't going to change anytime soon, looking to capture more Cork-the World traffic is a prudent move by any carrier

marno21

Cork-Providence flights departing in a weeks time on sale for the base price of €99. That's not a good sign at all, for the route or for Norwegian's finances.

kub

marno21 wrote: »

Cork-Providence flights departing in a weeks time on sale for the base price of €99. That's not a good sign at all, for the route or for Norwegian's finances.

Well publicity of them withdrawing for the winter period will probably have knocked peoples confidence in the service and perhaps bookings have gone elsewhere since.

JCX BXC

kub wrote: »

Well publicity of them withdrawing for the winter period will probably have knocked peoples confidence in the service and perhaps bookings have gone elsewhere since.

Perhaps, but many people book alot longer ahead when they book Transalantic flights compared to UK or Europe. The cancellation was only announced 5 weeks ago.

Plus you'd be surprised how little attention many pay. How many times have we seen comments on here saying they didn't know services like London-City existed, despite widespread media reports and advertising all over the city.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Would love to see the Swiss flights extended to year round.. what do you think the chances are? They already increased capacity for this year's Summer flights from 2 to 3 flights a week. Brilliant connection opportunities even to European destinations. Priced Cork- Zurich - Nice in September for €80 each way. Very good.

JCX BXC

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Would love to see the Swiss flights extended to year round.. what do you think the chances are? They already increased capacity for this year's Summer flights from 2 to 3 flights a week. Brilliant comenction opportunities even to European destinations. Priced Cork- Zurich - Nice in September for €80 each way. Very good.

Very good deal indeed.

If they're increasing, chances are it'll be slow and steady. Hopefully we'll soon see a full summer season, then maybe extending into the winter.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

JCX BXC wrote: »

Very good deal indeed.

If they're increasing, chances are it'll be slow and steady. Hopefully we'll soon see a full summer season, then maybe extending into the winter.

Fingers crossed.

Some very good European deals to be found, Vienna for €80 each way in September also, even booking for the next two weeks you can still get them around the same price. Considering it's €70 each way to Zurich, an extra tenner to get to Nice, Vienna etc is pretty damn good!! Have not flown Swiss before myself, but chatting to friends who have, they seem to be quite highly regarded. Food and drink included in all fares too, excellent!

Playing around with random medium/long haul routes also brought about good fares.. Cork to Dubai, Mumbai, Johannesburg etc for just over €400 return each including checked bag and meals...

Would be delighted to see it extended.

lisasimpson

Deals like that need to be promoted more to help the airprt. Some v good deals for long haul