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JCX BXC

beer enigma wrote: »

Imagine where they would be if they weren't saddled with the terminal debt :rolleyes:

That was proven a few years ago to have no bearing on the airports growth or day to day expenditure. Generally we've moved past the faux outrage of 4/5 years ago thankfully, this thread is long gone from its 'Joe.ie' style comments. Perhaps we shouldn't go back there?

beer enigma

JCX BXC wrote: »

That was proven a few years ago to have no bearing on the airports growth or day to day expenditure. Generally we've moved past the faux outrage of 4/5 years ago thankfully, this thread is long gone from its 'Joe.ie' style comments. Perhaps we shouldn't go back there?

It wasn't meant to be flippant !, however the redevelopment of the old terminal site was highlighted as a casualty and I'd have thought that could have brought in more business in a new format. I'm obviously wrong, we will leave Joe there.

Lisbon coming in this month should prove a popular route, just wish there was a hope of London city coming back.

.red.

beer enigma wrote: »

Lisbon coming in this month should prove a popular route, just wish there was a hope of London city coming back.

London City won't be back anytime soon.
It was a disaster. Nobody used it, only full at Christmas.
The people who used it, loved it but it was less than half full more times than it was full.

snotboogie

.red. wrote: »

London City won't be back anytime soon.
It was a disaster. Nobody used it, only full at Christmas.
The people who used it, loved it but it was less than half full more times than it was full.

December was an average month for LCY:


2016M10    2016M11    2016M12    2017M01    2017M02    2017M03    2017M04    2017M05    2017M06   
6189 4954 5852 3907 5236 6783 6276 7248 6319


I think the route was pulled very quickly and showed plenty of promise, probably not enough for 3 flights a day. It was nowhere near the disaster everybody seems to paint it as now. Oh and I learned to use tables

flexcon

.red. wrote: »

London City won't be back anytime soon.
It was a disaster. Nobody used it, only full at Christmas.
The people who used it, loved it but it was less than half full more times than it was full.

This is only my own antidotal evidence but....

I never knew there was a flight from Cork to London city. And, my friends at the time had no idea either.

Now either we are think stupid or there genuinely is a question to be asked regarding advertising or informing the locals. Either way - It's irrelevant. Myself and 4 others never heard of the flight.

.red.

snotboogie wrote: »

December was an average month for LCY:


2016M10    2016M11    2016M12    2017M01    2017M02    2017M03    2017M04    2017M05    2017M06   
6189 4954 5852 3907 5236 6783 6276 7248 6319


I think the route was pulled very quickly and showed plenty of promise, probably not enough for 3 flights a day. It was nowhere near the disaster everybody seems to paint it as now. Oh and I learned to use tables

The reason December was an average month was because every flight that was full from the 20th to the 30th, had 15-30 people before it.
It had less than 25 people more times than it was full.
It should have been a fantastic route, it was eventually well advertised but that was done too late. Cityjet lost an aircraft in Italy I think and had to pull a poor route to keep a better performing one going.

It wasnt me123

I didn't know there was a flight either from Cork to London City - and I used the Dublin one but I'm in Tipperary and Cork is much easier. Cork airport need to advertise more - I never see any marketing from them.

snotboogie

.red. wrote: »

The reason December was an average month was because every flight that was full from the 20th to the 30th, had 15-30 people before it.
It had less than 25 people more times than it was full.
It should have been a fantastic route, it was eventually well advertised but that was done too late. Cityjet lost an aircraft in Italy I think and had to pull a poor route to keep a better performing one going.

It essentially only existed in the shoulder months and 18 flights a week was too many. The numbers show that this would have been well able to fill 10 flights a week. Obviously that wasn't commercially viable for CityJet but this wasn't an outright failure of a route, it moved more numbers than many of the longstanding UK routes. If you want to look at complete failures that will never be brought back, look at Wow. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Aerlingus brought back Cork - London City

paulhardman

snotboogie wrote: »

It essentially only existed in the shoulder months and 18 flights a week was too many. The numbers show that this would have been well able to fill 10 flights a week. Obviously that wasn't commercially viable for CityJet but this wasn't an outright failure of a route, it moved more numbers than many of the longstanding UK routes. If you want to look at complete failures that will never be brought back, look at Wow. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Aerlingus brought back Cork - London City

The problem with LCY (as I understand it) is that it requires specially accredited aircraft and additional training and certification for the pilots due to the abnormally steep descent into the runway. Cityjet could do this, because all their planes and pilots were OK, but EI/Stobart would need to invest a fair bit, or swap some routes/aircraft around, to be able to do the ORK-LCY rotation.

marno21

New Aer Lingus CEO taking over next year is a Corkman

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-chief-to-step-down-next-year-1.3660082

I hope he still has his red jersey

Slipperydodger

Why does no Irish Airline offer Cork-Dublin route? If Ryanair are flying to England €10 one way and its commercially viable. There are 50+ people getting an aircoach from cork every hour 7 days a week not to mind the train. I fly Cork - Amsterdam, Amsterdam HongKong frequently. If there was a Cork Dublin flight I would fly Dublin Hong Kong. Is there something that I am missing? I really think it would be a viable and profitable route. Plenty would be willing to pay €40/€50 return imo.

thomil

Slipperydodger wrote: »

Why does no Irish Airline offer Cork-Dublin route? If Ryanair are flying to England €10 one way and its commercially viable. There are 50+ people getting an aircoach from cork every hour 7 days a week not to mind the train. I fly Cork - Amsterdam, Amsterdam HongKong frequently. If there was a Cork Dublin flight I would fly Dublin Hong Kong. Is there something that I am missing? I really think it would be a viable and profitable route. Plenty would be willing to pay €40/€50 return imo.

With The M8, two competing bus companies, and Irish Rail, there's no real market for the flight from a pure point to point perspective. The only way to make such a route work is connections, and the only airline that has a reliable shot at this would be Aer Lingus, or an airline that partners with them through either a direct codeshare agreement or the Oneworld alliance.
Even then, there's the question whether there's enough actual potential to make such a route profitable for the airline to commit even a lowly ATR 72 to it. I have some serious doubts. From my own experience with Aircoach, 90% of the passengers on the Dublin Airport run are Ryanair passengers who tend to ignore other airlines.

Masala

I really think it would be a viable and profitable route. Plenty would be willing to pay €40/€50 return imo.

Not everyone gets the €10 fare to London with Ryanair. They make their money with a lead of €10 for say 10-30 seats. They then get multiples of €20 /€40/€60 set fares with some people paying €100 ++. On top of this is baggage / seats /priority / refreshments/ gifts and scratch cards.

Will you pay €200 return ??? Will u pay €130 return???? Don't think so when you can get Aircoach for €20!!!

You will never be €50 return on a Cork_Dublin UNLESS Ryanair wanted to run Aircoach / Irish Rail etc out out town.

Sure the cheapest on Kerry_Dublin is €92 ++ return and that still has to be subsidized to offer that fare.

snotboogie

Slipperydodger wrote: »

Why does no Irish Airline offer Cork-Dublin route? If Ryanair are flying to England €10 one way and its commercially viable. There are 50+ people getting an aircoach from cork every hour 7 days a week not to mind the train. I fly Cork - Amsterdam, Amsterdam HongKong frequently. If there was a Cork Dublin flight I would fly Dublin Hong Kong. Is there something that I am missing? I really think it would be a viable and profitable route. Plenty would be willing to pay €40/€50 return imo.

I think the frequency on Amsterdam-HK is more than once daily, Dublin-Hong Kong is two or three times a week. Connections going East from Cork will still be far more convenient via CDG, Heathrow and Schiphol. Cork Dublin only makes sense going West

JCX BXC

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

I didn't know there was a flight either from Cork to London City - and I used the Dublin one but I'm in Tipperary and Cork is much easier. Cork airport need to advertise more - I never see any marketing from them.

The route was very heavily advertised across Cork. One of the most advertised routes they've ever had! Lots of posters on buses, buildings, radio ads, online ads, media coverage etc. Do you expect them to personally come to your house and tell you in person?

Masala

JCX BXC wrote: »

The route was very heavily advertised across Cork. One of the most advertised routes they've ever had! Lots of posters on buses, buildings, radio ads, online ads, media coverage etc. Do you expect them to personally come to your house and tell you in person?

AND.... I remember Cityjet themselves taking out whole page ads in Cork media advising that the route was struggling and expressing disappointment at the amount of local support.
They gave warnings in advance that the was at a 'use-it-or-lose-it' stage and its still was not supported. AND then the pulled the plug and the whole fiasco probably soured all their thoughts on any further Cork services.

JCX BXC

Masala wrote: »

AND.... I remember Cityjet themselves taking out whole page ads in Cork media advising that the route was struggling and expressing disappointment at the amount of local support.
They gave warnings in advance that the was at a 'use-it-or-lose-it' stage and its still was not supported. AND then the pulled the plug and the whole fiasco probably soured all their thoughts on any further Cork services.

Cityjet have gone away from their own flights anyway, they no longer sell tickets for services after the end of this month. Aer Lingus taking bookings for their DUB-LCY service.

It wasnt me123

[QUOTE=JCX BXC;108330745....... Do you expect them to personally come to your house and tell you in person?[/QUOTE]

No need to be rude, I was just saying I didn't see an ad. I live in rural Tipperary, so no buses, billboards near us.

And I'm probably of an age that is not very active on social media.

Their ad campaign didn't reach me, that's all I said. Life is very different in a city/urban area to rural - not all ad campaigns can transverse both.

JCX BXC

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

No need to be rude, I was just saying I didn't see an ad. I live in rural Tipperary, so no buses, billboards near us.

And I'm probably of an age that is not very active on social media.

Their ad campaign didn't reach me, that's all I said. Life is very different in a city/urban area to rural - not all ad campaigns can transverse both.

You're not particularly in the target area, and how does one target someone in rural Tipperary anyway? Not in any cost effective way!

It wasnt me123

JCX BXC wrote: »

You're not particularly in the target area, and how does one target someone in rural Tipperary anyway? Not in any cost effective way!

We would be a target area. 1 hour drive to Cork and ease of parking as opposed to 2 and half hours to dublin and parking a nightmare - I'm flying from Cork in December. I'm not sure how they could target the likes of me, local FB groups/instragram possibly or something like Boards.ie. Its a shame, I would have used it. I fly to London a lot.

revelman

JCX BXC wrote: »

You're not particularly in the target area, and how does one target someone in rural Tipperary anyway? Not in any cost effective way!

There are 160,000 people in County Tipperary, 90,000 of those are in south Tipperary. I'd argue that if south Tipperary isn't in the target area of Cork airport, it should be!

lisasimpson

revelman wrote: »

There are 160,000 people in County Tipperary, 90,000 of those are in south Tipperary. I'd argue that if south Tipperary isn't in the target area of Cork airport, it should be!

Defo should be. Wouldnt be that hard to have a few adds on the local radio station and local newspaper to put the idea of cork airport in peoples minds. Certain demographics not on social media. Now back living in tipp myself but give me shannon or cork over dublin anyday

Reputable Rog

lisasimpson wrote: »

Defo should be. Wouldnt be that hard to have a few adds on the local radio station and local newspaper to put the idea of cork airport in peoples minds. Certain demographics not on social media. Now back living in tipp myself but give me shannon or cork over dublin anyday

If they advertise in Limerick I've no doubt they advertise in Tipperary.

JCX BXC

In terms of billboards and buses. Easy to put on a radio ad yes, but their effectiveness is poor at best.

Point being is that Cork Airport had a stronger ad campaign for the LCY route than any other routes they've had in recent history. Not even PVD got that much paid publicity (although to be fair the media did alot). Airports can only try so hard, and the onus is really on the consumer to actually seek out these things. Sadly people seem to just fly from Dublin rather than use any actual effort any other way.

marno21

Has consideration ever been given to widening 07/25? There likely is a reason as to why there hasn't that I haven't looked into enough

.red.

marno21 wrote: »

Has consideration ever been given to widening 07/25? There likely is a reason as to why there hasn't that I haven't looked into enough

Is there any need?
It's so short that the aircraft that use it don't need it any wider?

titan18

Never knew Munich was still a winter route for Aer Lingus from Cork. Thought it has been axed completely.

Just had an email off Aer Lingus with it being offered.

flexcon

titan18 wrote: »

Never knew Munich was still a winter route for Aer Lingus from Cork. Thought it has been axed completely.

Just had an email off Aer Lingus with it being offered.

So happy to read this.

I am looking at going to Munich for Christmas. Once I read this I was straight over to Aer Lingus website.

Fly out December one way €313.49.
Ryanair from Dublin €54.

Seriously. I'd love to Support cork but F*ck that. That's reason number 200 why there is "Terminal 3" at the quays in the city.

EDIt: Coming back its €157 got cork or else €75 from Dublin. Now that is more like it, and personally i'd pay that difference for Cork.

hans aus dtschl

flexcon wrote: »

So happy to read this.

I am looking at going to Munich for Christmas. Once I read this I was straight over to Aer Lingus website.

Fly out December one way €313.49.
Ryanair from Dublin €54.

Seriously. I'd love to Support cork but F*ck that. That's reason number 200 why there is "Terminal 3" at the quays in the city.

EDIt: Coming back its €157 got cork or else €75 from Dublin. Now that is more like it, and personally i'd pay that difference for Cork.

Same thing many of us are saying.
I'm looking at a €400/€111 price differential on my chosen flight right now. And it's almost always like this: Cork flights are a cash cow, while the airlines duke it out at low cost for passengers in Dublin.

marno21

.red. wrote: »

Is there any need?
It's so short that the aircraft that use it don't need it any wider?

Sorry that should have been lengthen rather than widen. There appears to be a large barren area west of the 07 threshold.