Growler fill stations:Supervalue

oblivious

"Super Valu will be installing 2 tap growler systems in knocklyon, Swords, and Blackrock shortly"


Barry & Fitzwilliam I believe are in part be this development, a very positive move of the craft beer movement

Lovely Bloke

Interesting.

Very interesting.

How soon is soon, and I wonder who will be operating the Growler systems. If B&F are involved I would imagine they are the same systems in use in the Carry Out off licences (and McHugh's, & Baggot St Wines), and they seem to need someone trained to operate them. Will there always be such a person on hand in the Super Valu shops?

Expect a similar range of beers as are available in those locations above too, which I have to say is pretty impressive.

Good news for the likes of O Brother who don't have a proper bottling line yet, but are constantly on rotation in the above locations - great potential exposure.

oblivious

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

How soon is soon, and I wonder who will be operating the Growler systems. If B&F are involved I would imagine they are the same systems in use in the Carry Out off licences (and McHugh's, & Baggot St Wines), and they seem to need someone trained to operate them. Will there always be such a person on hand in the Super Valu shops?

No idea yet on that I am afraid

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Good news for the likes of O Brother who don't have a proper bottling line yet, but are constantly on rotation in the above locations - great potential exposure.

It is and another positive push for breweries to release one specials that may not make it to bottle or cans

toffeeshel

Barry and Fitzwilliam not involved as of yet. It's a different company to the carry out one doing the installations. I haven't heard of them. It will be interesting to see what breweries will be pouring. Also if the bottles will be unique to this system or will you be able to use growlers from other systems.
The Knocklyon station is imminent.

oblivious

toffeeshel wrote: »

Barry and Fitzwilliam not involved as of yet.

It was they who posted the original statement on Beoir. No.mention of anyone else, care to share your information?

Losty Dublin

Fook! Not in the the 5 shops which are closer to my house!!! :rolleyes:

toffeeshel

That was me on beoir. Different user name. I was shown the plans in the stores and was talking to the off-licence managers. I have no idea if the company installing the stations have any connections to any breweries.

oblivious

toffeeshel wrote: »

That was me on beoir. Different user name. I was shown the plans in the stores and was talking to the off-licence managers. I have no idea if the company installing the stations have any connections to any breweries.

Ah okay

Lovely Bloke

So I've a bit more info about this new system going into the SuperValu shops.

It's not the same as the CarryOut/McHughs etc version - they purge the growlers with CO2 before filling them, meaning there's no air inside them before the beer begins to fill. That's what's happening in the system.

The ones being put in by SuperValu don't do this, so they are essentially a hose filling a bottle - the beer won't last anywhere near as long in this type of growler.

BaZmO*

I'd imagine they're going for the novelty aspect rather than beer nerd angle.

Lovely Bloke

Cheaper option tbh.

BaZmO*

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Cheaper option tbh.

Same thing really I suppose.

BeerNut

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

the beer won't last anywhere near as long in this type of growler.

How do you know this?

Lovely Bloke

because they don't purge the oxygen.

BeerNut

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

because they don't purge the oxygen.

But how do you know the beer will spoil? Have you ever tasted beer that was kept in an unpurged growler too long and went off, or heard of it happening to someone else? I think thing case for purging is oversold. I blame Big CO2...

donaghs

Anyone seen the beer variety or prices?

Skerries

must...resist...urge...to...make...commment!

BaZmO*

BeerNut wrote: »

But how do you know the beer will spoil? Have you ever tasted beer that was kept in an unpurged growler too long and went off, or heard of it happening to someone else? I think thing case for purging is oversold. I blame Big CO2...

Yeah, I'm not convinced either. Sure the bottle gets "purged" through the act of filling it anyway when the liquid enters and displaces the air that's in the bottle. Once filled there would only be a minimal amount of air in the neck of the bottle.

Continuously opening and closing the bottle would be the biggest factor in spoiling the beer imo.

finatron

BaZmO* wrote: »

Yeah, I'm not convinced either. Sure the bottle gets "purged" through the act of filling it anyway when the liquid enters and displaces the air that's in the bottle. Once filled there would only be a minimal amount of air in the neck of the bottle.

Continuously opening and closing the bottle would be the biggest factor in spoiling the beer imo.

Using the CO2 before filling with beer is what a brewery would do I know it's only a small amount of air but it must make a difference for the brewerys to do the same

BaZmO*

finatron wrote: »

Using the CO2 before filling with beer is what a brewery would do I know it's only a small amount of air but it must make a difference for the brewerys to do the same

Yeah but a brewery would be expecting their product to then be on a shelf for anything up to a year or over. I'm no expert but I don't think you should be doing the same for Growler refills.

finatron

BaZmO* wrote: »

Yeah but a brewery would be expecting their product to then be on a shelf for anything up to a year or over. I'm no expert but I don't think you should be doing the same for Growler refills.

Why not it's not like it's over kill or anything a lot of homebrewers would use this method to bottle there beer.
The CO2 is there already for the keged beer so why not give you the freshest beer possible .
I don't live in the city so it will give me the opinion to store the beer for a few days until I get a chance to drink it.

BeerNut

finatron wrote: »

Why not it's not like it's over kill or anything a lot of homebrewers would use this method to bottle there beer.
The CO2 is there already for the keged beer so why not give you the freshest beer possible.

Exactly.

finatron wrote: »

I don't live in the city so it will give me the opinion to store the beer for a few days until I get a chance to drink it.

And this is why I raised the issue: the notion that a growler filled with beer that hasn't been purged will go off faster than one that has. It's unproven. I suggest that the purging system does not give you the option to store the beer for a few days. You had that option either way.

finatron

BeerNut wrote: »

Exactly.

And this is why I raised the issue: the notion that a growler filled with beer that hasn't been purged will go off faster than one that has. It's unproven. I suggest that the purging system does not give you the option to store the beer for a few days. You had that option either way.

I disagree by purging the growler you are Effectively just bottling the beer in the growler the same way a brewery or homebrewer would.
Without doing this step 1st it's like opening a beer recapping and drinking it a day or so later it just wont tasts fress or keep it's carbonation as well.

BeerNut

finatron wrote: »

Without doing this step 1st it's like opening a beer recapping and drinking it a day or so later

You reckon you could tell the difference between a beer that was recapped straight after opening and one that wasn't? Gwan, try it.

finatron wrote: »

it just wont tasts fress or keep it's carbonation as well.

It just won't, or you just think it won't?

jh79

BeerNut wrote: »

You reckon you could tell the difference between a beer that was recapped straight after opening and one that wasn't? Gwan, try it.

It just won't, or you just think it won't?

The hose method introduces oxygen as it is being poured so it will definitely not last as long.

BeerNut

jh79 wrote: »

definitely

Why "definitely"? Has this been tested? Perhaps theoretically it shouldn't last as long, but that's a different thing altogether.

finatron

I have done this. I home brew mostly use swing tops it's happend a few times opened a beer but have to recap it for whatever reason come back to it the next day it's just not as good . It just never gets back the carbonation you lost by opening.
With the alcohol in beer it can't really go off but exposing to fresh air it will change the flavors even after a day.

The price of purging your growler is less than a cent wort of C02. The C02 is there already to get the beer out of keg. It's takes 5seconds to do this step. So why would you not want it?
It allows you to keep that beer fress indefinitely .
With out it you need to drink you beerr asap for it to be keglike fresh

BeerNut

finatron wrote: »

The price of purging your growler is less than a cent wort of C02. The C02 is there already to get the beer out of keg. It's takes 5seconds to do this step. So why would you not want it?

I think you're still missing my point. Purging is fine, purging is good, purge away. But the notion that unpurged beer is worse and goes off faster? Unproven, and anecdotally not my experience.

finatron wrote: »

It allows you to keep that beer fress indefinitely .

:eek:

jh79

BeerNut wrote: »

Why "definitely"? Has this been tested? Perhaps theoretically it shouldn't last as long, but that's a different thing altogether.

In theory the purged could be stored as long as any bottle, the hose can't, oxygen is definitely present

BeerNut

jh79 wrote: »

oxygen is definitely present

Not if there's live yeast in the beer there isn't.

PEGAS don't recommend that you keep beer in their growlers for longer than 30 days. Without finding out what the same beer in an unpurged growler tastes like after 30 days there's no case for saying one method is better than the other. Unless you're a PEGAS shareholder, obvs.

BaZmO*

Indefinitely fresh? Wow!

Where can I get one of these machines?

BeerNut

Dr Emmett Brown, Hill Valley, California.

jh79

BeerNut wrote: »

Not if there's live yeast in the beer there isn't.

PEGAS don't recommend that you keep beer in their growlers for longer than 30 days. Without finding out what the same beer in an unpurged growler tastes like after 30 days there's no case for saying one method is better than the other. Unless you're a PEGAS shareholder, obvs.

The empty growler had a approx 20% o2 before the fill

BeerNut

jh79 wrote: »

The empty growler had a approx 20% o2 before the fill

Yes, I am aware of that. But that's not relevant to how any beer actually tastes.

finatron

BeerNut wrote: »

Yes, I am aware of that. But that's not relevant to how any beer actually tastes.

Yes it is the carbonation will affect the flavor more so in lower alcohol beers and IPAs.
Yes there will be some Yeats left in the beer but no wear near enough to recondtion your beer .
If there was enough yeast present you would then need more sugar.

Tell you what go get 2 swing top bottels of beer open 1 for a few mins recap it leave it 2 days and open both beers and have a tasts come back and tell me which is better tasting

ThisRegard

finatron wrote: »

Tell you what go get 2 swing top bottels of beer open 1 for a few mins recap it leave it 2 days and open both beers and have a tasts come back and tell me which is better tasting

I've actually done this and to me there's a noticeable difference.

But from what I can remember it was beer dependent. Some are fine but others are noticeably flat and dull.

BeerNut

finatron wrote: »

no wear near enough to recondtion your beer

Recondition? No: it'll consume the oxygen, though. This whole conversation about beer longevity comes down to how much oxygen is in the growler, doesn't it?

RasTa

Beer will taste better and last longer with co2. Ask any homebrewer who has to get bottles into a comp that is 4 weeks down the line.

You're just pouring beer directly from a keg into a growler so of course it won't last as long.

BeerNut

RasTa wrote: »

of course

Of course. Not a single trace of a sniff of a shred of real evidence. Not a sensory test nor a competition feedback sheet nor a story about that growler my third cousin's neighbour had which was pure cardboard after a week. Nothing but blind faith in theory.

C'mon, growler fans: let's have some stories about the growler beers you tasted which had gone off. I don't believe any beer in a growler has ever gone off. Prove me wrong with something other than theory. Please.

RasTa

BeerNut wrote: »

Of course. Not a single trace of a sniff of a shred of real evidence. Not a sensory test nor a competition feedback sheet nor a story about that growler my third cousin's neighbour had which was pure cardboard after a week. Nothing but blind faith in theory.

C'mon, growler fans: let's have some stories about the growler beers you tasted which had gone off. I don't believe any beer in a growler has ever gone off. Prove me wrong with something other than theory. Please.

Ah yeah they just purge it with co2 for the hell out of, I mean no need really. Oxidisation isn't an issue at all.

Brewers tend to hate them. Growlers are basically beer destroyers. They’re often unsanitary, and the refilling process mixes in a lot of oxygen–the tiniest amount of oxygen kills beer so quickly.- Garrett Oliver

Do the experiment yourself if you're that concerned about it.

BeerNut

RasTa wrote: »

Ah yeah they just purge it with co2 for the hell out of

Or a guy sitting at a bar watching a growler being filled with a hose reckoned he could monetise that better. You'd need to scare people away from the hose, of course...

RasTa wrote: »

Do the experiment yourself if you're that concerned about it.

Hose-filled growler beer has always tasted fine to me. And it's tasted fine to everyone who thinks purged growlers are better, right?

Just a little Samba

Hosed filled just takes longer and has slightly more potential for wastage.


I've got fills from Sweetman's, Mulligan's and the GBB bars as well as from Baggot Street wines and I've never noticed any difference...

RasTa

BeerNut wrote: »

Or a guy sitting at a bar watching a growler being filled with a hose reckoned he could monetise that better. You'd need to scare people away from the hose, of course...

Well any head brewer would say beer only lasts 2 or 3 days max in a growler from a bar. Not hard to find this info

It's the same way cans of beer are filled. I thought you would know this

BaZmO*

If CO2 is heavier than O2, wouldn't the act of filling with a hose displace all the O2, especially if CO2 is escaping from the beer as it's being poured?

BeerNut

RasTa wrote: »

Well any head brewer would say beer only lasts 2 or 3 days max in a growler from a bar. Not hard to find this info

That's not "info".

RasTa

BeerNut wrote: »

That's not "info".

What is it then? What exactly do you need to hear?

BeerNut

"I had a growler of x. I kept it for y days and it went all cardboardy/sour/bland, presumably because the growler had not been flushed with CO2 before filling."

Something along those lines: an actual story about The Hose Problem, rather than theory.

HopsAndJumps

BeerNut wrote: »

"I had a growler of x. I kept it for y days and it went all cardboardy/sour/bland, presumably because the growler had not been flushed with CO2 before filling."

Something along those lines: an actual story about The Hose Problem, rather than theory.

I used to live in Portland and growlers at as common there as bacon and cabbage is here. There are a few buisness that just do growler fills, there is one dedicted buisness called hawtorne and It has 48 taps! The general consensus was drink your growler within two days of getting it filled. The better places will purge the growler first, if you dont then all your beer gets exposed to o2 as the beer fills and swirls. The say oxygenation kills hop aroma pretty quickly.

BeerNut

Yep, it's certainly a common perception. But has anyone checked if it's true or not?

Not G.R

BeerNut wrote: »

Yep, it's certainly a common perception. But has anyone checked if it's true or not?

Have you?

HopsAndJumps

BeerNut wrote: »

Yep, it's certainly a common perception. But has anyone checked if it's true or not?

Not with a growler, but here is some useless information. When bottling beer there is always one at the end that gets a load of bubbles down the bottling stick. I always mark that bottle with an x and so I remember to drink it second. After conditioning for 3 weeks that bottle always tastes way more dank dank.

That has no relevance to this as 3 weeks is way too long.