Bus Strike (read warning in post #1)

Peppa Pig

Peppa Pig wrote: »

It has been missed the target for the last three months, last six months and last 12 months of data. Averaging out over a year and a half DB have not hit that target.

cdebru wrote: »

Maybe you might have another look over them yourself

1st quarter 2014 the saturday peak period requirement was 98.6
2nd quarter 2014 was 95.4 so over the first 2 quarters it was 97% the remaining 2 quarters of 2014 are not published yet so and nothing is published for 2015.


in 2013 they exceeded the target in the first and last quarter but dipped below in the 2nd and 3rd meaning for the year they missed the target by 0.1%.

I've quoted
Last quarter 2014
First Half Year 2014 and
Full year 2013.

I haven't looked at individual quarters, or individual districts. I'll pick out some if you want.
Look at Tallaght/Crumlin Q214. Saturday peak is only 91.1%. Almost 1 bus in 11 didn't run that quarter. That district also missed its week day pm target but hit it for the week day am.

If targets are being met in individual quarters then it's a seriously bad miss to drag the overall score down to below target.

It's quite likely all targets were met Mon-Thur of this week. Overall the week will miss very badly due to no buses today.

Should we ignore today and say that it was grand for the rest of the week?

end of the road

MrMorooka wrote: »

With friends like 'end of the road', the unions and workers don't need enemies.

Please stop posting dude, in every thread you just really really hurt the side you are on.

only in your head is that the case. so i'm not worried.

Peppa Pig

end of the road wrote: »

that could have been down to traffic or a breakdown. it doesn't show his claim is wrong at all

What an exceptionally stupid post.

If a bus breaks down it doesn't provide the service.

cdebru

Peppa Pig wrote: »

I've quoted
Last quarter 2014
First Half Year 2014 and
Full year 2013.

I haven't looked at individual quarters, or individual districts. I'll pick out some if you want.
Look at Tallaght/Crumlin Q214. Saturday peak is only 91.1%. Almost 1 bus in 11 didn't run that quarter. That district also missed its week day pm target but hit it for the week day am.

If targets are being met in individual quarters then it's a seriously bad miss to drag the overall score down to below target.

It's quite likely all targets were met Mon-Thur of this week. Overall the week will miss very badly due to no buses today.

Should we ignore today and say that it was grand for the rest of the week?

Where did you get last quarter 2014 ?

Peppa Pig

cdebru wrote: »

Where did you get last quarter 2014 ?

I didn't - I meant last quarter available.

It's actually poor that the last data is July 14. BE and M&A are the same. Whartons have Q3 2014

cdebru

Peppa Pig wrote: »

I didn't - I meant last quarter available.

It's actually poor that the last data is July 14. BE and M&A are the same. Whartons have Q3 2014

True I don't know why they aren't posted, AFAIK all that information has to be submitted to the NTA.

ordinary_girl

I'll have to get a taxi to work tomorrow, did anybody have any difficulty getting a taxi today? I'm worried everyone will be getting taxis and it'll be difficult to flag one down!

Stheno

ordinary_girl wrote: »

I'll have to get a taxi to work tomorrow, did anybody have any difficulty getting a taxi today? I'm worried everyone will be getting taxis and it'll be difficult to flag one down!

Why not book one to be sure?

Gatling

I seen two sad faced lady drivers in the herald claiming there getting ready to go out for 7 days straight .
Wonder if siptu agree with them

ordinary_girl

Stheno wrote: »

Why not book one to be sure?

I'm just wondering if there will be a need to or not. Would rather walk part of the way then get a taxi, if I can.

pmasterson95

ordinary_girl wrote: »

I'm just wondering if there will be a need to or not. Would rather walk part of the way then get a taxi, if I can.

It'd be all or nothing. Due to this bull**** taxis are rushed off their feet. Was waiting 40 mins for one to arrive today they were that busy.

ordinary_girl

pmasterson95 wrote: »

It'd be all or nothing. Due to this bull**** taxis are rushed off their feet. Was waiting 40 mins for one to arrive today they were that busy.

To arrive? Were you waiting at a rank or did you book one?

pmasterson95

ordinary_girl wrote: »

To arrive? Were you waiting at a rank or did you book one?

Went into the office. I wouldnt fancy just going to the rank unless its a short distance. The traffic was bad and a meter will then cost a fortune. That was in Galway tho. Mightnt be as bad where you are.

ordinary_girl

I'm in Dublin, fwiw. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing taxi-wise when a strike is on!

pmasterson95

ordinary_girl wrote: »

I'm in Dublin, fwiw. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing taxi-wise when a strike is on!

Yeah theres probably more taxis but equally more people being ****ed over by these drivers.
I'd say your safest to book one unless you can either walk the distance or dont mind waiting for one.

wupucus

they should privatise the entire bus service, dissolve Dublin bus, pay them statuary redundancy and end this union b..s..t once and for all. it is a disgrace that these unions should be able to leave so many people stranded. elderly people with no way of getting about. people having to pay for taxi's to get to hospital appointments - they have well paid jobs with defined benefit pensions and they are still allowed to do this- hopefully the courts will gut these unions and put an end to this industrial blackmail.

Wanderer78

wupucus wrote: »

they should privatise the entire bus service, dissolve Dublin bus, pay them statuary redundancy and end this union b..s..t once and for all. it is a disgrace that these unions should be able to leave so many people stranded. elderly people with no way of getting about. people having to pay for taxi's to get to hospital appointments - they have well paid jobs with defined benefit pensions and they are still allowed to do this- hopefully the courts will gut these unions and put an end to this industrial blackmail.

deeply disturbing view. hopefully you will eventually see the problems with your statement in time. wont be back to argue. better things to do. best of luck

Infini

Wanderer78 wrote: »

deeply disturbing view. hopefully you will eventually see the problems with your statement in time. wont be back to argue. better things to do. best of luck

The facepalm is strong I agree. Can only argue so much myself before finding that your arguing with a wall. Privatisation is a slow process obscured with bolloxology and by the time its realised how wrong it was its too late to fix it. The english experience showed how wrong this was and how it turned out. On top of that privatisation in this country has always gone bad because of gobshytes in government who havent a care of the long term damage of these things.

doolox

Or in that vicinity the last time I checked. For such a responsible public facing job it is not a big sum of money.

I'd imagine that like truck drivers there is probably a daily and weekly limit to hours worked although I do not recall seeing a tachograph on a bus like you have on trucks to monitor such things so that overtime etc is probably not a big element in their pay.

If privatisation goes like the bins you could see Drivers wages and conditions cut and it would be worse for drivers to be in a private organisation.

I do not blame the drivers for opposing privatisation as I do not believe it is in their interest to do so. I regret that the only effective weapon they have for making their case is the crude, blunt instrument of withdrawal of services en masse.

Many unions in central europe reserve strikes for a very last resort when faced with a particularly intransigent and pig headed management stand on some very fundamental policy bordering on incompetance or sociopathy. Hopefully this doesn't describe our government or transport chiefs.

Only a fool would think that savings will be made by magic, savings will only be made by cut wages and longer hours and reduced conditions of work, all things that would be hard to expect a rank and file bus driver to accept without a fight.

end of the road

wupucus wrote: »

they should privatise the entire bus service, dissolve Dublin bus, pay them statuary redundancy and end this union b..s..t once and for all. it is a disgrace that these unions should be able to leave so many people stranded. elderly people with no way of getting about. people having to pay for taxi's to get to hospital appointments - they have well paid jobs with defined benefit pensions and they are still allowed to do this- hopefully the courts will gut these unions and put an end to this industrial blackmail.

privatization doesn't stop strikes or get rid of unions. the courts gutting the unions because you say so won't make a difference, maybe the unions can reform under a different name or something i don't know.

n97 mini

end of the road wrote: »

privatization doesn't stop strikes or get rid of unions.

Private transport companies in Ireland are non unionised probably without exception. No unions = no strikes.

Peppa Pig

n97 mini wrote: »

Private transport companies in Ireland are non unionised probably without exception. No unions = no strikes.

SIPTU are the exclusive union with the Luas

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Peppa Pig wrote: »

SIPTU are the exclusive union with the Luas

Aircoach have a union.... although they had to fight very hard for it !

gbob

Wanderer78 wrote: »

deeply disturbing view. hopefully you will eventually see the problems with your statement in time. wont be back to argue. better things to do. best of luck

Yeah, there's only so much one can do to fight ignorance.

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

Private transport companies in Ireland are non unionised probably without exception.

luas is unionized i believe. the company running it is a private transport company. so, if they are, its not quite "private transport companies in Ireland are non unionised probably without exception"

n97 mini wrote: »

No unions = no strikes.

actually, not necessarily. certainly no guarantee of it anyway

pmasterson95

Wanderer78 wrote: »

deeply disturbing view. hopefully you will eventually see the problems with your statement in time. wont be back to argue. better things to do. best of luck

Like your job? Oh no wait ye're doing nothing tomoro aswell.

Hilly Bill

microsim wrote: »

Leaving commuters stranded. What scumbags.

Nobody is stranded, they didn't dump them on lambay island and sink the boats.

punisher5112

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Like your job? Oh no wait ye're doing nothing tomoro aswell.

Spell check on the old computer must be broken....


I know not one driver that want's to be out but we want to look after our future and to be honest it doesn't look good.

Have a wonderful night.

pmasterson95

punisher5112 wrote: »

Spell check on the old computer must be broken....


I know not one driver that want's to be out but we want to look after our future and to be honest it doesn't look good.

Have a wonderful night.

Awwww

cdebru

Peppa Pig wrote: »

SIPTU are the exclusive union with the Luas

And Aircoach.

punisher5112

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Awwww

Something defo wrong with the spelling check.

You should contact the guys that fix windows.

BuffyBot

Stop with the personal comments folks

monument

NOTE:

Two general strike threads merged.

There's been loads of warning, any poster who already has a warning and keeps on attacking or pointlessly bickering or otherwise breaking the charter should expect a short-term ban to cool themselves off.

Last warning: Read the charter.

hatrickpatrick

Ironically enough this strike has massively bolstered the argument for privatisation, something I would usually be opposed to. But if a strike like this from one company's workers can pretty much shut down Dublin's entire public transport system apart from three very limited train lines, then that is a monopoly which has far too much power to screw over consumers.

If we instead had a crapload of private operators competing for bus use, there would be alternatives for people in Dublin today apart from taxis.

Again I'm normally anti-privatisation, but this kind of sh!te on a bank holiday weekend was never going to have any effect other than pissing people off and losing support from the general public. Friend of mine is home for the long weekend and everyone was looking forward to a night out, without the Nitelink we're now faced with having to fork out exorbitant prices for taxis (We all live in different areas so pooling is out of the question) or couch surfing.

I have to say I find it particularly insidious that they seem to always choose major weekends such as holidays or those which coincide with massive sporting events to hold these strikes. It's as if it's deliberately targeted to frustrate as many customers as possible - would nobody involved agree that this is massively counter productive?

I was supporting the drivers' argument up until now BTW. You're just lost yourselves at least one supporter.

KomradeBishop

There's little point in a strike if it isn't disruptive - that's the whole point. If Dublin Bus has too powerful a monopoly, then how come they are getting royally screwed over again and again?

It seems a little short sighted, to want privatized services solely because Dublin Bus can mount strikes effectively - i.e. wanting a lower quality, less routes and higher cost (in taxes combined with fares) public transport system in general, just because it personally inconveniences people on days there are strikes.

Careful what you wish for - these strikes will affect the future course of our entire public bus transport system, which will turn sharply negative if it turns to privatization - as can be seen by researching mass-privatization elsewhere (which the tendering is a prelude to); something that would negatively affect us all, which is why we should be supporting the strike (even if it personally inconveniences us).

hmmm

KomradeBishop wrote: »

There's little point in a strike if it isn't disruptive - that's the whole point.

A monopoly is a very privileged thing - most people who strike have not got the ability to affect 100s of thousands of people. If that monopoly is abused, it strengthens the arguments for removing it.

these strikes will affect the future course of our entire public bus transport system, which will turn sharply negative if it turns to privatization - as can be seen by researching mass-privatization elsewhere (which the tendering is a prelude to); something that would negatively affect us all, which is why we should be supporting the strike (even if it personally inconveniences us).

You have no absolutely no evidence for this. Private bus operators are offering great service up and down the country - Dublin bus offers a barely tolerable service.

Peppa Pig

KomradeBishop wrote: »

lower quality, less routes and higher cost (in taxes combined with fares) public transport system in general

I've seen this argument used several times to justify a strike.
I've yet to see it backed up.

If we simply compare the private routes vying for passengers with BE, none of the above holds true. The likes of Aircoach, Go Bus, JJKavanagh, Matthews, City Link etc can not be accused of offering an inferior service or higher costs when competing with expressway.

The tendering process will keep all routes and their is nothing to suggest that these companies will suddenly offer inferior quality because they are operating a BE route on behalf of the NTA.

There is nothing to suggest that this will be different for DB routes. It may be, but we are being told to accept it as fact. At it's best it is scaremongering.

It's not - if it is can you provide the evidence.

end of the road

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Ironically enough this strike has massively bolstered the argument for privatisation, something I would usually be opposed to.

which is why it shouldn't happen. because people have false beliefs that privatization will be oh so perfect with no strikes. we've seen from london thats not the case, far from it.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

if a strike like this from one company's workers can pretty much shut down Dublin's entire public transport system apart from three very limited train lines, then that is a monopoly which has far too much power to screw over consumers.

i don't agree. this government has shown we need a group of people who can cause loss to the economy to ensure the government at least listen to peoples issues.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If we instead had a crapload of private operators competing for bus use, there would be alternatives for people in Dublin today apart from taxis.

but it doesn't look like were going to get that..

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Again I'm normally anti-privatisation

with respect your either for or against privatization.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

this kind of sh!te on a bank holiday weekend was never going to have any effect other than pissing people off and losing support from the general public.

what support. much of the general public never support anyone but themselves anyway. public support won't make any difference in terms of the outcome of this. we've seen that with many of the taxes and charges that have been brought in against the will of the public.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Friend of mine is home for the long weekend and everyone was looking forward to a night out, without the Nitelink we're now faced with having to fork out exorbitant prices for taxis (We all live in different areas so pooling is out of the question) or couch surfing.

and i'd bet some have to do that all the time as they don't have public transport. its a first world problem tbh

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I have to say I find it particularly insidious that they seem to always choose major weekends such as holidays or those which coincide with massive sporting events to hold these strikes. It's as if it's deliberately targeted to frustrate as many customers as possible - would nobody involved agree that this is massively counter productive?

of course its to cause as much disruption as possible otherwise its meaningless.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I was supporting the drivers' argument up until now BTW. You're just lost yourselves at least one supporter.

you stop supporting them because they dare to stand up for themselves and our bus service? fine, but it won't make any difference. as i said public support will make no difference to the outcome of this whatever it may be.

end of the road

hmmm wrote: »

A monopoly is a very privileged thing - most people who strike have not got the ability to affect 100s of thousands of people. If that monopoly is abused, it strengthens the arguments for removing it.

You have no absolutely no evidence for this. Private bus operators are offering great service up and down the country - Dublin bus offers a barely tolerable service.

its a very necessary thing to have to ensure economies of scale and operational flexibility. the fact some don't have something does not mean others shouldn't. there are no arguments for removing dublin bus or bus eireann. the private bus operators your talking about mostly operate along routes with actual competition (IE multiple operators) so it means nothing

hmmm

end of the road wrote: »

the private bus operators your talking about mostly operate along routes with actual competition (IE multiple operators) so it means nothing

So you agree that competition leads to improved service?

end of the road

Peppa Pig wrote: »

I've seen this argument used several times to justify a strike.
I've yet to see it backed up.
If we simply compare the private routes vying for passengers with BE, none of the above holds true. The likes of Aircoach, Go Bus, JJKavanagh, Matthews, City Link etc can not be accused of offering an inferior service or higher costs when competing with expressway.

but that means nothing as those services are commercial and are i'd imagine proffitable and viable for multiple operators. much of the dublin bus routes bar where there are existing operators along side dublin bus aren't financially viable but exist for social reasons only.

Peppa Pig wrote: »

The tendering process will keep all routes and their is nothing to suggest that these companies will suddenly offer inferior quality because they are operating a BE route on behalf of the NTA.
There is nothing to suggest that this will be different for DB routes. It may be, but we are being told to accept it as fact. At it's best it is scaremongering.

its not. i've read comradebishops posts here and on other parts of boards, and much of what he says does seem to check out.

end of the road

hmmm wrote: »

So you agree that competition leads to improved service?

actual competition can do. what is happening for dublin bus and BE routes being put out to tender isn't actual competition. infact its not competition at all as there is nothing to compete for as the NTA is deciding everything. if it was up to the operators to propose everything in terms of running the service then the competition argument would probably be valid

Aard

There is so much misinformation being bandied about wrt to hashtag busstrike.

Even Sharon Ní Bheoláin missed some key points on the nine o'clock.

Everybody. Please read "Transport for Suburbia" by Paul Mees. It explains quite simply the different possible models for providing public transport. Some work. Some don't. Some are excellent. Some exist purely because of lazy legacy.

Some of the comments on this thread and others are adding to the misinformation. Some are naive. Some are plain wrong. Yet all of them are getting "thanks". This is worrying.

This issue is clearly very emotive. There's lots of anger. And anger clouds objectivity. Anger about job losses. Anger about salary. Anger about poor public transport service. Anger about public spending. Anger about political ideologies.

Put the anger aside for a moment. Read "Transport for Suburbia". Mees explains it very simply. Debate is good. Informed debate is better. Uninformed debate can be ultimately destructive.

KomradeBishop

hmmm wrote: »

A monopoly is a very privileged thing - most people who strike have not got the ability to affect 100s of thousands of people. If that monopoly is abused, it strengthens the arguments for removing it.

Yes, the privilege to get gradually fúcked over in wages and working conditions, and get vilified by the public when standing up for themselves, nice...

hmmm wrote: »

You have no absolutely no evidence for this. Private bus operators are offering great service up and down the country - Dublin bus offers a barely tolerable service.

Have you done any research on the history of tendering elsewhere? There's plenty of evidence of how it provides an inferior service, at greater cost to the population (in terms of taxes combined with fares) - this article does a good job outlining the problem, and it references past studies of privatization/tendering:
http://www.irishleftreview.org/2015/04/21/racing-public-transport-bottom/

KomradeBishop

Peppa Pig wrote: »

I've seen this argument used several times to justify a strike.
I've yet to see it backed up.

If we simply compare the private routes vying for passengers with BE, none of the above holds true. The likes of Aircoach, Go Bus, JJKavanagh, Matthews, City Link etc can not be accused of offering an inferior service or higher costs when competing with expressway.

The tendering process will keep all routes and their is nothing to suggest that these companies will suddenly offer inferior quality because they are operating a BE route on behalf of the NTA.

There is nothing to suggest that this will be different for DB routes. It may be, but we are being told to accept it as fact. At it's best it is scaremongering.

It's not - if it is can you provide the evidence.

See the evidence backing this above - and the tendering process is the first step towards gradual wider privatization - it's easy for private services to compete on routes that are known to be profitable, as they don't yet have to take on many socially-necessary i.e. unprofitable routes (which are going to be subsidised by the taxpayer, when they do - with the total cost being taxes combined with fares).

cdebru

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Ironically enough this strike has massively bolstered the argument for privatisation, something I would usually be opposed to. But if a strike like this from one company's workers can pretty much shut down Dublin's entire public transport system apart from three very limited train lines, then that is a monopoly which has far too much power to screw over consumers.

If we instead had a crapload of private operators competing for bus use, there would be alternatives for people in Dublin today apart from taxis.

Again I'm normally anti-privatisation, but this kind of sh!te on a bank holiday weekend was never going to have any effect other than pissing people off and losing support from the general public. Friend of mine is home for the long weekend and everyone was looking forward to a night out, without the Nitelink we're now faced with having to fork out exorbitant prices for taxis (We all live in different areas so pooling is out of the question) or couch surfing.

I have to say I find it particularly insidious that they seem to always choose major weekends such as holidays or those which coincide with massive sporting events to hold these strikes. It's as if it's deliberately targeted to frustrate as many customers as possible - would nobody involved agree that this is massively counter productive?

I was supporting the drivers' argument up until now BTW. You're just lost yourselves at least one supporter.

If you are referring to august 2013, unions didn't pick that weekend the management did, for BE bank holiday W/E are probably busier than normal but for DB a bank holiday weekend is actually quieter than a normal weekend in general. ( which is why management picked it in August 2013)

As for the other points, what's the alternative ? Do nothing ? Just roll over and take whatever FG and the party of Connolly want to throw at you ?
You would have a valid point if DB unions were just going out on strike willy nilly whenever the urge took them that's simply not the case, the 2013 strike/ lockout was completely a management engineered event they unilaterally made changes to contracts and this time it is the rushing of a tendering process with virtually zero thought as to the knock on effects, when the unions first sat down with the NTA and asked them all the various issues, with pensions, tupe, they couldn't answer anything, they actually looked shocked because they were completely focused on the tendering arrangements they hadn't even considered the knock on effects, like a builder knocking down a wall without seeing what it is supporting . so nearly a year later they come up with the well this time everyone stays where they are, but even this they haven't thought through, as in Waterford they are virtually wiping out BE, what will they be staying in to do what ?

Gatling

Aard wrote: »

There is so much misinformation being bandied about wrt to hashtag busstrike.

Even Sharon Ní Bheoláin missed some key points on the nine o'clock.

Everybody. Please read "Transport for Suburbia" by Paul Mees. It explains quite simply the different possible models for providing public transport. Some work. Some don't. Some are excellent. Some exist purely because of lazy legacy.

Some of the comments on this thread and others are adding to the misinformation. Some are naive. Some are plain wrong. Yet all of them are getting "thanks". This is worrying.

This issue is clearly very emotive. There's lots of anger. And anger clouds objectivity. Anger about job losses. Anger about salary. Anger about poor public transport service. Anger about public spending. Anger about political ideologies.

Put the anger aside for a moment. Read "Transport for Suburbia". Mees explains it very simply. Debate is good. Informed debate is better. Uninformed debate can be ultimately destructive.

Why don't you point out what exactly is misinformation and wrong rather than go read this .

Peppa Pig

KomradeBishop wrote: »

it references past studies of privatization/tendering: http://www.irishleftreview.org/2015/04/21/racing-public-transport-bottom/

From that article

Statistical tests do not show any significance as regards relationship between efficiency and the type of operator….The efficient cities … are spread over different continents and public administration styles – Anglo-Saxon, Nordic and bureaucratic – and they are not concentrated in any specific type of operator.

So efficiency stays the same whether public or private.

An average EU subvention could transform bus services in the Dublin area –substantial expansion in services combined with fare reductions. In addition, given that bus transport is highly labour intensive, an expansion of services would return a considerable amount of that subvention to the Exchequer through additional tax revenue.

He arrives at the figure of 27% of DB revenue is subvention. Drill down further and you will see

when all State interventions (including the PSO subvention, Free Travel Scheme, tax foregone as a result of the Taxsaver scheme, emergency funding and funding for the purchase of new buses) are taken into account, the level of subvention to Dublin Bus is at the upper end of the range and approaches 50%.

It's at the upper end, never mind well below the average of the cities he quotes That article says an average subvention would transform our bus service, we are already above it.

He is unwittingly making a case for privatisation, while arguing we should everything public. Strange article.

Aard

Gatling wrote: »

Why don't you point out what exactly is misinformation and wrong rather than go read this .

Because it wouldn't fit in one post.

I understand though that many people aren't interested in educating themselves on the matter. I included the reference for those few who are interested enough to read a couple of chapters on the subject.

KomradeBishop

Peppa Pig wrote: »

From that article

Statistical tests do not show any significance as regards relationship between efficiency and the type of operator….The efficient cities … are spread over different continents and public administration styles – Anglo-Saxon, Nordic and bureaucratic – and they are not concentrated in any specific type of operator.

So efficiency stays the same whether public or private.

You are deliberately misquoting the article, and lying-by-omission, because the article did not say that, the article was quoting that study, as an example of selectively picking studies to back your point of view:

‘Statistical tests do not show any significance as regards relationship between efficiency and the type of operator….The efficient cities … are spread over different continents and public administration styles – Anglo-Saxon, Nordic and bureaucratic – and they are not concentrated in any specific type of operator.’

I could go on an on – but you get the point. Pull out an academic study that supports your preconceived position, claim this is what the ‘experts’ find, and ignore all other studies and experts who show something different – that approach hardly instils confidence.

Peppa Pig wrote: »

He arrives at the figure of 27% of DB revenue is subvention. Drill down further and you will see

when all State interventions (including the PSO subvention, Free Travel Scheme, tax foregone as a result of the Taxsaver scheme, emergency funding and funding for the purchase of new buses) are taken into account, the level of subvention to Dublin Bus is at the upper end of the range and approaches 50%.

It's at the upper end, never mind well below the average of the cities he quotes That article says an average subvention would transform our bus service, we are already above it.

He is unwittingly making a case for privatisation, while arguing we should everything public. Strange article.

You have directly lied in the bolded part, by attempting to insert a quote - a 50% figure - which is not in the original article, neither is it in the report that the article is quoting.

So you credibility now is pretty much zero, as I have directly shown you lying and inserting figures favourable to you, in that quote - 0/10 for that attempt at deception.


In addition, what you were quoting was again not what the article was saying, but was a quote from a report the article was criticizing - here is what the article had to say:

But it’s the ‘reduce subvention’ argument that is the stunner.

‘A comparative analysis of subvention levels across Europe indicated that levels of public transport subvention vary between 35 and 60 percent of revenue. When all State interventions are taken into account, the level of subvention to Dublin Bus is at the upper end of the range.’

This is an outrageous assertion. The fact is that Dublin has a rock-bottom level of public subsidy

Note the complete absence of the bolded text I highlighted above - which, again, is a direct lie from you.