Re: Adolf Hitler

Wacker The Attacker

Diego Simeone wrote: »

If the USSR was actually an ally, and that's a fairly ridiculous and hypothetical if, Germany would not have lost the war.

No sh1t

Wurzelbert

silverfeather wrote: »

The nazi party was secretive. It was a police state everything was secret even back then. So it's hard to piece together now. And people don't want to be forthcoming if they were involved.

though the was very open in his books, on the whole ideology and also on the party platform...
don’t think any of those seriously involved are still around...

DarkyHughes

The Pope & Hitler in the woods hahaha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcbWectiE6o

SaveOurLyric

Wurzelbert wrote: »

there is a massive knowledge gap regarding hitler, german history and germany in general in today's world...

There sure is. 'Hitler' or 'Nazi' seems to have become a lazy shorthand for the ultimate in evil. Yes, there were undoubtedly some very undesirable aspects to their policies that we never want to see the likes of again. But there seems to be a view abroad that everything they tried to do was bad in the extreme. None of the more noble aspects of what they were attempting to bring about for the good of Germany get much airing these days.

Fratton Fred

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

There sure is. 'Hitler' or 'Nazi' seems to have become a lazy shorthand for the ultimate in evil. Yes, there were undoubtedly some very undesirable aspects to their policies that we never want to see the likes of again. But there seems to be a view abroad that everything they tried to do was bad in the extreme. None of the more noble aspects of what they were attempting to bring about for the good of Germany get much airing these days.

This sounds like a Healy Rae voter.

"People only talk about him starting a world war that killed 35 million people, or the mechanised murder of 6 million Jews, Romas, etc. But he did fix the pothole in our road so he gets my vote"

Cold War Kid

Fratton Fred wrote: »

This sounds like a Healy Rae voter.

"People only talk about him starting a world war that killed 35 million people, or the mechanised murder of 6 million Jews, Romas, etc. But he did fix the pothole in our road so he gets my vote"

Absolutely. This revisionism regarding Hitler - using words like "propaganda" (that's Holocaust denial/conspiracy theorist language when it comes to Hitler IMO) and anger at the lack of knowledge about the guy personally: what's the purpose of it? Ok things weren't all bad (if you weren't Jewish) prior to the war, but so? The bad eclipses the good.

Wurzelbert

Fratton Fred wrote: »

This sounds like a Healy Rae voter.

"People only talk about him starting a world war[...]

things are a tad more complex than the “official” version…hitler definitely did not start a world war...think about it and the whole prehistory...

cd07

MRnotlob606 wrote:

Why ? What would that merit ? Destroying the beautiful Sistine Chapel, St Peter's Basilica, Priceless works of art. Also, many brave members of the clergy like Hugh O' Flaherty,Maximilian Kolpe and even future pope John Paul IIsaved countless lives.

MRnotlob606 wrote:

Destroying the Vatican is one of the most senseless almost anti-catholic comments I have seen here.

doh we're in Ireland! ! feckin religious brigade are out ! nazis /Vatican. .. is there a difference? really? crusades. .......... brain washing bull****e if u ask me

bjork

Hilter has been replace with allah. The aryan race ideal replaced with islam

Capt'n Midnight

bjork wrote: »

Hilter has been replace with allah. The aryan race ideal replaced with islam

The SS had several Muslim divisions.



Had Hitler not have an ideology that required the destruction of untermensch then it's possible that they could have reached a different result in Russia with an Iron Curtain to the East.

On the other hand if the US hadn't entered the war and Britain had to "go it alone" history would have been a little different. The Atomic Bomb would have been developed in Canada. Most of the initial work had been done by "Tube Alloys" , Canada had the power and uranium and the Lancaster was the ideal delivery weapon.

The US had to modify bomb design and B29 to fit each other and develop a release mechanism, in the end they used the one that had been used to drop Tallboys from the Lancaster. The only reason they didn't use the Lancaster was because it wasn't invented in the USA.


Really the key question is how stable were the treaties ?
IF and it's a big IF , Stalin and Hitler could have felt they could have trusted each other not to back stab then things could have been very different.

The Russians honoured their treaty with Japan for the most part. Russian convoys carrying material from the US weren't attacked by the Japanese, even though the material was for use in the war on Japan's ally Germany.

Wurzelbert

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The SS had several Muslim divisions.
[...]

yes, these were desparate war time measures to prop up the numbers…

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

On the other hand if the US hadn't entered the war and Britain had to "go it alone"[...]

and what if britain had stayed out of the war in the first place? also and especially in 1914 already...?

Fratton Fred

Wurzelbert wrote: »

yes, these were desparate war time measures to prop up the numbers…



and what if britain had stayed out of the war in the first place? also and especially in 1914 already...?

Germany would have conquered France, taken control of its navy and the entire British and French empires would have fallen under German control. The Germans and Ottomans would rule the world.

Maybe.

Or there would have been a French Hitler.

The_Valeyard

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Germany would have conquered France, taken control of its navy and the entire British and French empires would have fallen under German control. The Germans and Ottomans would rule the world.

Maybe.

Or there would have been a French Hitler.

Pretty sure the British blew up the French navel vessels rather than let them fall into German hands. Lot of French sailors died.

Wurzelbert

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Germany would have conquered France, taken control of its navy and the entire British and French empires would have fallen under German control. The Germans and Ottomans would rule the world.

Maybe.

Or there would have been a French Hitler.

okay, i can agree on the “maybe” part…and we will never really know anyway, though i don’t think taking over the world was ever seriously on the agenda…that’s primarily a propaganda construct, same as that nazi invasion of ireland…

Fratton Fred

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Pretty sure the British blew up the French navel vessels rather than let them fall into German hands. Lot of French sailors died.

That was WWII, after the fall of France and the formation of the Vichy government. The French navy joining forces with the German navy was a worst case scenario for Britain, hence the ultimatum.

Fratton Fred

Wurzelbert wrote: »

okay, i can agree on the “maybe” part…and we will never really know anyway, though i don’t think taking over the world was ever seriously on the agenda…that’s primarily a propaganda construct, same as that nazi invasion of ireland…

German dominance of the seas would have made that a very real scenario. It was one of Britain's reasons for joining in.

Wurzelbert

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That was WWII, after the fall of France and the formation of the Vichy government. The French navy joining forces with the German navy was a worst case scenario for Britain, hence the ultimatum.

britain would and did side with devil in order to preserve british military and economic (!) dominance of europe and much of the world…balance of power politics and all…of course britain screwed and basically bankrupted itself in the process…

Wurzelbert

Fratton Fred wrote: »

German dominance of the seas would have made that a very real scenario. It was one of Britain's reasons for joining in.

yeah sure, the brits just decided to not alow anybody else to have a large navy…for the rest see my post #218

Fratton Fred

Wurzelbert wrote: »

yeah sure, the brits just decided to not alow anybody else to have a large navy…for the rest see my post #218

And your point is?

Wurzelbert

Fratton Fred wrote: »

And your point is?

my point? just replying to posts here…though i am aware that bringing up facts and alternative opinions is somewhat unpopular around here and in today’s world in general…and what was your point again? are you british?

Fratton Fred

Wurzelbert wrote: »

my point? just replying to posts here…though i am aware that bringing up facts and alternative opinions is somewhat unpopular around here and in today’s world in general…and what was your point again? are you british?

You were proposing the British kept out of WWI and I gave you a probable scenario.

There's also the small issue of no arms for the 1916 uprising, no threat of conscription so no ground swell of support for Sinn Fein so Ireland would still be part of the UK.

No league of nations and UN. No EU, no Poland.

The world would be incredibly different

Wurzelbert

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You were proposing the British kept out of WWI and I gave you a probable scenario.

There's also the small issue of no arms for the 1916 uprising, no threat of conscription so no ground swell of support for Sinn Fein so Ireland would still be part of the UK.

No league of nations and UN. No EU, no Poland.

The world would be incredibly different

yeah, it sure would be…the 1916 irish situation is an interesting one in this hypothetical version of history…do you think the uprising would even have happened if britain hadn’t been at war and “distracted” in a way?

Fratton Fred

Wurzelbert wrote: »

yeah, it sure would be…the 1916 irish situation is an interesting one in this hypothetical version of history…do you think the uprising would even have happened if britain hadn’t been at war and “distracted” in a way?

Possibly, but not a certainty. If it had, there's chance the leaders would Have been subject to criminal rather than military courts and may not have been executed.

Who knows.

kaloshma

Still can't wrap my mind around the whole nazi thing.

Hotblack Desiato

diddley wrote: »

Well no one told you war was gonna be this way
The front's a joke, you're broke, your panzers DOA
Because they're frozen, stuck in second gear
And it hasn't been your day, your week, your month or even your year, but

I'll be there for you
When the bombs start to fall
I'll be there for you
Even when the Russians call
I'll be there for yoooouuuu...

househero

Ingloriouse basterds is on more 4 now. An entertaining alternative history of Nazi occupied France from a great Jewish director.

Looking forward to his hateful 8

silverfeather

househero wrote: »

Ingloriouse basterds is on more 4 now. An entertaining alternative history of Nazi occupied France from a great Jewish director.

Looking forward to his hateful 8

I saw that. They use a fav David Bowie song of mine Putting out fire with gasoline! It's from another film I like Cat people!

Sorry has nothing to do with thread.

RickDeckard

4512 wrote: »

Could Hitler's Nazi regime have lasted longer if it had made the Catholic church and the USSR an ally indtead of an enemy?

Fu88king banana's thread, kudos sir...

I cant even figure out what exactly what you mean, but its funny, as far as the third riech is funny etc...

househero

silverfeather wrote: »

I saw that [inglorious basterds]. They use a fav David Bowie song of mine Putting out fire with gasoline! It's from another film I like Cat people!

Sorry has nothing to do with thread.

No need for apologies. Lots of posts on here have nothing to do with the thread...


It still impresses me that Hitler managed to convince an entire country to commit sin together... Taking up arms against non threatening neighbours... Who were until recently (in the last century), actually their own German brethren. Rounding up and killing innocent people, who were friends, business associates and even family. Even convincing millions to turn a blind eye to what they knew was wrong. Public persecution, segregation, degregation and mass murder.

BUT... If you read the UKs daily mail. You soon see how easy it is to persuade a large proportion of the public that 'foreigners' are second class citizens.

You do have to be an idiot... But plenty of people read that paper And the majority of Germans during the war, at the VERY least, were guilty of not standing up for what was right.


How it was all coordinated, is quite impressive... Maybe the highly organised and efficient Nazis. ARE the reason why we vote incompetent people in to politics.

Hotblack Desiato

Hitler used the same techniques religion has been using for hundreds of years.

househero

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Hitler used the same techniques religion has been using for hundreds of years.

Which were?

Hitlers reign is arguably the single most successful control of the people in all of history. Even religion and gods supreme power was far far slower to grow.

RickDeckard

househero wrote: »

Which were?

Hitlers reign is arguably the single most successful control of the people in all of history. Even religion and gods supreme power was far far slower to grow.

The only problem with Hitler is he did not go far enough.

I mean, where is that sense of commitment in a project?

Im not feeling it Der Fruher...


Also, read some history househero, Hitler is a pussycat compared to some examples of humanity that have walked this earth


Discalmer**this is a joke and I think Hitler was an evil prik****

RickDeckard

well, ok, Hitler is number 3 on the top killers hit list, but Im sure other evil bastards have been lost in history and many more to be born yet......

househero

Yea.

Once again. I wasn't talking about how evil hitler was.

Seems to be a bit of an obsession of people. Hitler + Minorities = supreme evil


I was talking about his impressive leadership skills to coordinate normal people in to becoming either...

a. Evil Bastereds themselves
b. Too weak to say it is wrong

He had ultimate control of a whole nation

Hotblack Desiato

househero wrote: »

Which were?

An unquestionable leader.
A sacred text.
Neat uniforms.
Deference to hierarchy.
Music and song.
Repetitive rituals lit by candles/torches
A youth movement.
Sloganeering.
Censorship.
Emphasis that members are a 'chosen people'
Vilification of non-members of the group.
Justification of violence against the 'other'.
Insinuation of the movement into all aspects of society, and especially the education system.
Emphasis on the collective over the individual.
Glorification of suffering.
Creation of an illusory greater goal (thousand year Reich, paradise - doesn't matter, the poor schmos will never see it.)
I could go on.

Hotblack Desiato

househero wrote: »

Which were?

Hitlers reign is arguably the single most successful control of the people in all of history. Even religion and gods supreme power was far far slower to grow.

The catholic church is far more pervasive, far more enduring, and has killed far more people.

househero

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

An unquestionable leader.
A sacred text.
Neat uniforms.
Deference to hierarchy.
Music and song.
Repetitive rituals lit by candles/torches
A youth movement.
Sloganeering.
Censorship.
Emphasis that members are a 'chosen people'
Vilification of non-members of the group.
Justification of violence against the 'other'.
Insinuation of the movement into all aspects of society, and especially the education system.
Emphasis on the collective over the individual.
Glorification of suffering.
Creation of an illusory greater goal (thousand year Reich, paradise - doesn't matter, the poor schmos will never see it.)
I could go on.

Please do go on

Nice list. Its rare to find.

househero

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The catholic church is far more pervasive, far more enduring, and has killed far more people.

I did say single. No pope or Roman Emperor has had such a controlling force without a lineage of implied power. Hitler was pretty much a nobody, that made himself in to a somebody. Hitlers brother worked in the Shelbourne as a bell boy in 1909.

Hotblack Desiato

He did know what he was doing, but he also got very, very lucky.

I forgot two more:

Create a very simple corporate logo - a few lines.
Plaster this logo on basically everything you can.

...

How could I forget - the most important one -

- Create a policy of control over sexual intercourse. Take extreme measures against anyone who has sex with someone they shouldn't. Dehumanise, deromanticise and mechanise the sexual act into a mere reproductive function. Encourage extreme levels of childbirth to keep people controlled and at subsistence level. Take extreme measures against any means of fertility reduction, homosexuality, pornography, anything that leads to sexual pleasure except to the very minimum necessary to ensure impregnation.

househero

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

He did know what he was doing, but he also got very, very lucky.

I forgot two more:

Create a very simple corporate logo - a few lines.
Plaster this logo on basically everything you can.

...

How could I forget - the most important one -

- Create a policy of control over sexual intercourse. Take extreme measures against anyone who has sex with someone they shouldn't. Dehumanise, deromanticise and mechanise the sexual act into a mere reproductive function. Encourage extreme levels of childbirth to keep people controlled and at subsistence level. Take extreme measures against any means of fertility reduction, homosexuality, pornography, anything that leads to sexual pleasure except to the very minimum necessary to ensure impregnation.

Would Hitler Vote against same sex marriage...

I wonder what his brother thought of him... He did move as far away from him in Europe as he could hahahaha

Hotblack Desiato

househero wrote: »

Would Hitler Vote against same sex marriage...

The Jews got a yellow star, the homosexuals got a pink triangle, on their concentration camp uniforms.

[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Kennzeichen_für_Schutzhäftlinge_in_den_Konzentrationslagern.jpg[/img]

newmug

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

He did know what he was doing, but he also got very, very lucky.

I forgot two more:

Create a very simple corporate logo - a few lines.
Plaster this logo on basically everything you can.

...

How could I forget - the most important one -

- Create a policy of control over sexual intercourse. Take extreme measures against anyone who has sex with someone they shouldn't. Dehumanise, deromanticise and mechanise the sexual act into a mere reproductive function. Encourage extreme levels of childbirth to keep people controlled and at subsistence level. Take extreme measures against any means of fertility reduction, homosexuality, pornography, anything that leads to sexual pleasure except to the very minimum necessary to ensure impregnation.

I'm Catholic, and proud to call myself such. I'm sorry, but you'll have to explain those two things to me. Whatever about the stuff you typed above, I've come across them before. Wrong as they are, i can kinda see where someone might get confused. But what slogan exactly are you on about? And you've basically stated the opposite of the Catholic views on sex there, you'll have to explain this to me.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Hitler had some good triats though.

Did you know that he

1) was nominated for the nobel peace prize in 1939 ?

2) He invented the blow up sex doll

3) He led the first anti smoking campaign in modern history, banning it on public transport.

4) He was a vegetarian and created laws against animal cruelty and prohibited hunting and animal testing

househero

newmug wrote: »

I'm Catholic, and proud to call myself such. I'm sorry, but you'll have to explain those two things to me. Whatever about the stuff you typed above, I've come across them before. Wrong as they are, i can kinda see where someone might get confused. But what slogan exactly are you on about? And you've basically stated the opposite of the Catholic views on sex there, you'll have to explain this to me.

Wasn't he saying that is what the Nazis did, not the church???

I think he was reffering to the Hindu swastikas the Nazis stole as their symbol