New suckler scheme on per hectare basis!!

ellewood

Got this this evening from Icbf I hadnt been on to them

Dear Herdowner,

As a participant in last years genomics scheme we urge you to get your
application in for the 2015 to 2020 scheme.

If you send in your application, there will be a ‘cooling off period’ during which you will be able
to opt out of the scheme. However, if your application is not in by May 29th, you will not have the chance to join subsequently.

See link below for a Farmers Journal video on the scheme.
- http://www.icbf.com/?p=3554

Regards,
ICBF

Alibaba

jd06 wrote: »

So does this mean if you sign up for 1year you still can't get out in year 3 4or5

You can get out if you want but except in cases of force majuere they will claw back all monies paid out.

Mac Taylor

dh1985 wrote: »

If running a stock bull he must be born in 2013 at the earliest also. Not going to apply for this scheme now as its the final straw in a badly thought out scheme. Cant see much out of it, if anything after everything is taken into account No point changing a five star bull to another just for the grant and risk the possibility of unproven progeny. Think I will stick with whats working for me as is
I wonder do ai bulls have to be born after 2013!

Dh, don't think that's right, by 30th June 2019, at least one stock bull must have been a genotyped 4 or 5 stars (maybe 3.5!!!!) according to the t&c booklet. The 2013 date you refer to is for female replacements.

blue5000

Anybody go to the meetings?

dh1985

Mac Taylor wrote: »

Dh, don't think that's right, by 30th June 2019, at least one stock bull must have been a genotyped 4 or 5 stars (maybe 3.5!!!!) according to the t&c booklet. The 2013 date you refer to is for female replacements.

That's what my understanding was also until the teagasc advisor said the bull must be born after 2013 also as well as the replacements. I will check with him again. I read the terms and conditions and seen no mention of dates but am afraid when he mentioned it that it may be retrospectively introduced

Mac Taylor

dh1985 wrote: »

That's what my understanding was also until the teagasc advisor said the bull must be born after 2013 also as well as the replacements. I will check with him again. I read the terms and conditions and seen no mention of dates but am afraid when he mentioned it that it may be retrospectively introduced

Well put it like this, nothing would surprise me. Let us know how you get on.

reps4

has there been any comparison on current euro stars compared to genotyped stars?

Fortunately, if current stars were used i would comply this year so dont forsee too much problems.

i think if people have been up to speed and paying attention to trends in breeding etc over the last few years and were in welfare scheme/btap, all the tasks are pretty simple and are what we should be doing if want to run a drystock/suckler farm in a professional capacity.

hate saying it but a quick look to my dairy neighbours will show they have been doing it for years!

need to move with times, cant expect soft money from here on in and it is of benefit.. can see that myself. got a sympa bull recently and difference in calves is noticable once they hit the ground.

Connemara Farmer

Sheep breeder wrote: »

this scheme proves we have a very poor minister for ag and his advisor and the sec general are not from farming back ground with such a poorly constructed scheme with the terms and conditions.
also you can now see why wickam cleared out,
the suckler cow has being the life blood of the small farmer on poorer quality
land and Ai was a big part of the system in the past, but now after this minister who cut the money for the first suckler scheme that improved the way the weanling was presented for sale which was a big improvement,

what this minister does not seem to understand is most suckler men are always trying to improve their stock quality and take great pride in getting weanlings sold for export which has helped the country in hard times

Is the Minister poor, or is it something else? There are organisations unhappy with the beef data and genomics scheme as it relates to smaller herds on poorer land.

One of the Ministers first statements coming into office was to the effect of the necessity of "weaning farmers off these type (pillar 2) of payments". How better to do that than by placing barriers to entry in the fine print, be they financial penalties or onerous requirements. It gives him the soundbite "out" in the future "we put a scheme in place but farmers didn't want it".

He is anything but poor, unfortunately, he is quite clever.

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/vulnerable-farmers-have-been-abandoned-by-coveney/

morana

Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Simon Coveney, today reminded suckler farmers that the Beef Data and Genomics Programme closes for applications at the end of the week, on Friday 29th May. Over 12,600 applications had already been received by Tuesday morning.

High bike

ellewood wrote: »

Got this this evening from Icbf I hadnt been on to them

Dear Herdowner,

As a participant in last years genomics scheme we urge you to get your
application in for the 2015 to 2020 scheme.

If you send in your application, there will be a ‘cooling off period’ during which you will be able
to opt out of the scheme. However, if your application is not in by May 29th, you will not have the chance to join subsequently.

See link below for a Farmers Journal video on the scheme.
- http://www.icbf.com/?p=3554

Regards,
ICBF

got the same thing myself today eventhough I had applied on line a week ago.I thing it's some sort of an automated reminder being sent out,the must be short of numbers:D

Connemara Farmer

morana wrote: »

Over 12,600 applications had already been received by Tuesday morning.

66,000 suckler farmers in the country AFAIK.

blue5000

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

66,000 suckler farmers in the country AFAIK.

When was that, 2013?:(

Connemara Farmer

blue5000 wrote: »

When was that, 2013?:(

Not sure but I only heard it lately.

Bellview

following the announcement that there is a cooling off period, I expect you will see a surge in applications this week but the real interesting number will be how many will stay in the scheme after the cooling off period. I am applying now because of the cooling off period, but unless I can see some consistency in the stars I will opt out of the scheme... when I look at my cows and what they breed, over the last 3 years there are only 2 daughters of my 4 & 5 star cows that I wpuld keep...ironically my 2 stars are breeding better than some of my 5 stars..

tanko

If a farmer isn't signed up to ICBF at the moment, how do they find out what eurostars their cows and heifers have?

Farrell

tanko wrote: »

If a farmer isn't signed up to ICBF at the moment, how do they find out what eurostars their cows and heifers have?

They can't.
If you give the tag no of your bull calves to someone registered they maybe able to give you the dam's rating

tanko

Farrell wrote: »

They can't.
If you give the tag no of your bull calves to someone registered they maybe able to give you the dam's rating

I'm with icbf for a few years now. A neighbour who isn't with them aked me about it today. I thought I read somewhere that farmers who aren't with icbf were going to be given the eurostars for their animals to help them decide if they wanted to join the new scheme.
I must have imagined it.

Kovu

tanko wrote: »

I'm with icbf for a few years now. A neighbour who isn't with them aked me about it today. I thought I read somewhere that farmers who aren't with icbf were going to be given the eurostars for their animals to help them decide if they wanted to join the new scheme.
I must have imagined it.

No......I read it somewhere too cause I posted the same in either this thread or the other one. Let me dig a bit and I'll see if I can find the info again

tomieen jones

Kovu wrote: »

No......I read it somewhere too cause I posted the same in either this thread or the other one. Let me dig a bit and I'll see if I can find the info again

i'm not joined icbf and received nothing yet! They should hurry because when is the deadline?

tanko

tomieen jones wrote: »

i'm not joined icbf and received nothing yet! They should hurry because when is the deadline?

Deadline is Friday I think.

Limestone Cowboy

tanko wrote: »

I'm with icbf for a few years now. A neighbour who isn't with them aked me about it today. I thought I read somewhere that farmers who aren't with icbf were going to be given the eurostars for their animals to help them decide if they wanted to join the new scheme.
I must have imagined it.

Ring them, a neighbour did and they sent him out a list with all his cows and heifers Eurostars on it. He didn't have to pay either.

Kovu

Knew I read something somewhere. It seems you have to opt in before you get it and then opt out if you're not happy. FFS.

Make life easy why don't you.

High bike

As I'm not joined icbf either I rang them today about joining and was told it would be 2 or 3 months before they have my data,I'm presuming from this I won't be able to get star ratings for my cows till then and by then they will all be back incalf?

High bike

tanko wrote: »

I'm with icbf for a few years now. A neighbour who isn't with them aked me about it today. I thought I read somewhere that farmers who aren't with icbf were going to be given the eurostars for their animals to help them decide if they wanted to join the new scheme.
I must have imagined it.

im pretty sure I read this somewhere too,but I thought it was the Dept that was to send the eurostars?

Kovu

High bike wrote: »

As I'm not joined icbf either I rang them today about joining and was told it would be 2 or 3 months before they have my data,I'm presuming from this I won't be able to get star ratings for my cows till then and by then they will all be back incalf?

I'd hazard ringing them again and try to get a different person.
Why wouldn't they have your data? I was able to sign up and get it within minutes

High bike

Kovu wrote: »

I'd hazard ringing them again and try to get a different person.
Why wouldn't they have your data? I was able to sign up and get it within minutes

thats what I was thinking,I'll do that tomorrow thanks

Limestone Cowboy

High bike wrote: »

im pretty sure I read this somewhere too,but I thought it was the Dept that was to send the eurostars?

They definitely did it for my neighbour, he was showing me the list the other day because he couldn't make head nor tail of it.

whelan2

closing date extended to friday 5th of june

Grueller

whelan2 wrote: »

closing date extended to friday 5th of june

Any information on how many have applied? It was at around 12-13k on Tuesday I heard. Numbers must be low.

Grueller

Grueller wrote: »

Any information on how many have applied? It was at around 12-13k on Tuesday I heard. Numbers must be low.

Actually found my own answer. About 15000 as of yesterday.
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2015/may/title,82917,en.html

tomieen jones

High bike wrote: »

thats what I was thinking,I'll do that tomorrow thanks

which department could I ring ? Really I wouldlike to see my cows status
Before I decide joining this scheme

Bellview

tomieen jones wrote: »

which department could I ring ? Really I wouldlike to see my cows status
Before I decide joining this scheme

need to join herdplus on ICBF is quickest way. There is a cooling off period with the scheme so you can decide to withdraw even after applying. I don't know what the time limit of the cooling off period.

unless the 3 stars get into the scheme you might see a lot of applicants withdraw in this cooling off period - I will definitely pull out as the cows and my good breeding cows are not aligned

LivInt20

Bellview wrote: »

need to join herdplus on ICBF is quickest way. There is a cooling off period with the scheme so you can decide to withdraw even after applying. I don't know what the time limit of the cooling off period.

unless the 3 stars get into the scheme you might see a lot of applicants withdraw in this cooling off period - I will definitely pull out as the cows and my good breeding cows are not aligned

In six years time how many of them cows do you still expect to have on the farm?

tomieen jones

Does anyone else find it strange that a department can recover information about my stock without my consent and then charge me to see it? And upon that then introduce a scheme where it is almost a necessity to have this information before deciding

Limestone Cowboy

tomieen jones wrote: »

Does anyone else find it strange that a department can recover information about my stock without my consent and then charge me to see it? And upon that then introduce a scheme where it is almost a necessity to have this information before deciding

Ring icbf and they will post out a list of all the females on your farm with their Eurostars free of charge.

I said

Quick question.
How do the rate heifers from a 5star bull if the cows star rating is lower.what way do they calculate the heifers star rating?

blue5000

tomieen jones wrote: »

Does anyone else find it strange that a department can recover information about my stock without my consent and then charge me to see it? And upon that then introduce a scheme where it is almost a necessity to have this information before deciding

Must be Dennis O'brien again. I hear himself and larry share private jet hangar space at Dublin airport.

ganmo

I said wrote: »

Quick question.
How do the rate heifers from a 5star bull if the cows star rating is lower.what way do they calculate the heifers star rating?

Average the 2
So 5 star bull + 3 star cow = 4 star heifer
Or 1 star cow = 3 star heifer

I said

ganmo wrote: »

Average the 2
So 5 star bull + 3 star cow = 4 star heifer
Or 1 star cow = 3 star heifer

Thanks

Figerty

tomieen jones wrote: »

Does anyone else find it strange that a department can recover information about my stock without my consent and then charge me to see it? And upon that then introduce a scheme where it is almost a necessity to have this information before deciding

I wonder if you did a freedom of information request on all information held on file about you and farm/buisness activities would you get all the information related to the herd?

Alibaba

I had 25 suckler cows in the reference year 2014. 25 hectares declared on sps

25 ha divided by 1.5 = 16.66 .. Call it 17

Anyone know what is the minimum number I'd have to keep to get full payment.

If as they say 60 % have to be genotyped would 10 cows (60% of 17 ) do, to get full payment.

High bike

Kovu wrote: »

I'd hazard ringing them again and try to get a different person.
Why wouldn't they have your data? I was able to sign up and get it within minutes

did that today and a chap gave me the cow ratings over the phone,so I suppose it depends on who picks up the phone when you ring.It seems I have38% 4 or 5 star at the moment ,but I think from 2017 they have to be born in 2013 or later.Now I have replacement 2014 heifers off a 5 star bull so is it as simple as people are saying just add the stars from the bull and the cow and divide by 2 to get heifer ratings or is there some other way of calculating?

Kovu

High bike wrote: »

did that today and a chap gave me the cow ratings over the phone,so I suppose it depends on who picks up the phone when you ring.It seems I have38% 4 or 5 star at the moment ,but I think from 2017 they have to be born in 2013 or later.Now I have replacement 2014 heifers off a 5 star bull so is it as simple as people are saying just add the stars from the bull and the cow and divide by 2 to get heifer ratings or is there some other way of calculating?

Good stuff!

Their base rating is as simple as adding the stars of bull & cow and diving by two but the stars on them can change with info you provide for their calves. Calving ability, calving interval etc will affect how their rating develops as they age etc.

High bike

Kovu wrote: »

Good stuff!

Their base rating is as simple as adding the stars of bull & cow and diving by two but the stars on them can change with info you provide for their calves. Calving ability, calving interval etc will affect how their rating develops as they age etc.

so that's just a starting point so and can go either way then depending on performance ?

Kovu

High bike wrote: »

so that's just a starting point so and can go either way then depending on performance ?

I'm pretty sure that's how it works- correct me if I'm wrong anybody!
What makes me think that is that we have two cows who would be quite close in breeding and one has three stars and other half a star, the latter had two sections and two other difficult calvings.

High bike

Kovu wrote: »

Good stuff!

Their base rating is as simple as adding the stars of bull & cow and diving by two but the stars on them can change with info you provide for their calves. Calving ability, calving interval etc will affect how their rating develops as they age etc.

Kovu wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that's how it works- correct me if I'm wrong anybody!
What makes me think that is that we have two cows who would be quite close in breeding and one has three stars and other half a star, the latter had two sections and two other difficult calvings.

that prob would effect the stars ok,but that's a huge difference might have something to do with their offspring too

Kovu

High bike wrote: »

that prob would effect the stars ok,but that's a huge difference might have something to do with their offspring too

Perhaps, haven't actually looked that much into that part of the scheme. Two of the lower starred cows animals were private sales though and may not have bred themselves yet as they were show animals.

High bike

Kovu wrote: »

Perhaps, haven't actually looked that much into that part of the scheme. Two of the lower starred cows animals were private sales though and may not have bred themselves yet as they were show animals.

to be honest the star ratings I got don't make much sense to me,what I would consider my 2 best cows are rated lower than average cows who got 4 stars

Kovu

High bike wrote: »

to be honest the star ratings I got don't make much sense to me,what I would consider my 2 best cows are rated lower than average cows who got 4 stars

You're not the only one with that!! Have a lm/ch heifer with half a star replacement value, yet 5 for terminal, who has CF42 as her grand sire, major bull for milk, as was her dam. Yet what's letting her down is the UN (62.5%) of her grandmother, who was part of our milking stock. I'd say out of all our cows we might have three or four rated as we would.

Farrell

Kovu wrote: »

You're not the only one with that!! Have a lm/ch heifer with half a star replacement value, yet 5 for terminal, who has CF42 as her grand sire, major bull for milk, as was her dam. Yet what's letting her down is the UN (62.5%) of her grandmother, who was part of our milking stock. I'd say out of all our cows we might have three or four rated as we would.

I wonder will the DNA testing help get the unknown traits acknowledged, which could mean 1star cows which deliver great calves due to missing info get the right credits