Is boards.ie a home for the middle class?

Chijj

the evasion_kid wrote: »

Couldn't be any worse than the slack jawed yokels that are there at the minute

I'm far from the governments biggest fan but I would rate them 7/10 at the moment, on a personal level I can see growth in jobs from the people I know and they reduced the USC at the budget, albeit at a low amount.

A good bit done, a good bit more to do.

dxhound2005

SMASH IRISH WATER wrote: »

No they are not.

They are people who want some change. People who want fairness and equality. People who are sick of hearing about corrupt politicians and about millionaires paying no tax. There has never been such a large gap between the rich and the poor. People are now finally standing up, and the establishment and their lapdogs are running scared.

If you have evidence of tax evasion bring it to the Revenue Commissioners. You can check their quarterly register of offenders for details of how they deal with miscreants.

If your lot get into power they will immediately let the millionaires off property tax, one tax which they cannot avoid.

darkpagandeath

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If you have evidence of tax evasion bring it to the Revenue Commissioners. You can check their quarterly register of offenders for details of how they deal with miscreants.

If your lot get into power they will immediately let the millionaires off property tax, one tax which they cannot avoid.

Aggressive tax avoidance is not illegal yet.

KomradeBishop

If political parties spend millions on campaigning regularly, they likely spend a bit of that on online discourse too - if industries that have a big stake in political/economic topics that affect them (hint: finance), spend lots of money lobbying on affected policies, they likely spend a bit of that on online discourse too.
There's a lot of precedent of that all around the world - there's nothing unique or special about Ireland, which would make it any different.

It's very easy to control discussion online: Drive the quality of discussion down to such a low level, for select topics, that nobody really wants to participate anymore, and then just make excuses to repeat the same points that back your political end-goals (or which are otherwise advantageous in that way - even if just as a distraction), again and again.

If you make people lose interest in the topic, that's a win - bonus if you get to perpetuate myths that back your political views in the process (creating scores of 'useful idiots' who will help perpetuate those views - these are likely the vast majority of certain extremists).
That's why variations of 'dole scrounger sipping champagne on a beach in Lanzarote' is the myth that will never die.

You can usually spot this, by seeing that people are only putting on the pretense of a debate, instead of actually debating - or are otherwise using deceptive arguments.


So no, for certain topics, Boards probably doesn't really represent the public or even the forum userbase that well - you do get extremes on both sides (I've seen what appeared to be an actual North Korean Communist hint death threats at posters before :pac:), but the larger the number of extremists on one side, spouting the most excessively extreme version of their views, the more they can make the middleground/'moderates' shift in their direction (or give the appearance of that) - shifting the Overton Window - i.e. shifting the range of acceptable discourse, and perpetuating myths which back their political aims.

porsche959

Whether the OP is right or wrong, got to lol at posts saying there is no class system in Ireland.

The naivetee of some.

tritium

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Exactly. The two you mention (I'd throw in staunchly left-wing middle-class intellectuals too) just scream and groan the loudest.

Haha yeah forgot about them

Got to love how a thread can quickly invalidate itself though! Is boards middle class and the first few pages are a slew of posters with telling us how evil the rich are and how they control everything against the poor. I predict we'll shortly have the equivalent meaningless wall of noise from the other fringe in counterattack. Shortly after that we'll have the standard pseudo intellectual nonsense you mention. Possibly with lashing of whinings about how other posters are being dishonest or misrepresenting them as their arguments get dismantled by the uncomfortable facts....

A fairly standard boards thread so....

MRnotlob606

I am drinking champagne out of a welly.

MRnotlob606

KomradeBishop wrote: »

If political parties spend millions on campaigning regularly, they likely spend a bit of that on online discourse too - if industries that have a big stake in political/economic topics that affect them (hint: finance), spend lots of money lobbying on affected policies, they likely spend a bit of that on online discourse too.
There's a lot of precedent of that all around the world - there's nothing unique or special about Ireland, which would make it any different.

It's very easy to control discussion online: Drive the quality of discussion down to such a low level, for select topics, that nobody really wants to participate anymore, and then just make excuses to repeat the same points that back your political end-goals (or which are otherwise advantageous in that way - even if just as a distraction), again and again.

If you make people lose interest in the topic, that's a win - bonus if you get to perpetuate myths that back your political views in the process (creating scores of 'useful idiots' who will help perpetuate those views - these are likely the vast majority of certain extremists).
That's why variations of 'dole scrounger sipping champagne on a beach in Lanzarote' is the myth that will never die.

You can usually spot this, by seeing that people are only putting on the pretense of a debate, instead of actually debating - or are otherwise using deceptive arguments.


So no, for certain topics, Boards probably doesn't really represent the public or even the forum userbase that well - you do get extremes on both sides (I've seen what appeared to be an actual North Korean Communist hint death threats at posters before :pac:), but the larger the number of extremists on one side, spouting the most excessively extreme version of their views, the more they can make the middleground/'moderates' shift in their direction (or give the appearance of that) - shifting the Overton Window - i.e. shifting the range of acceptable discourse, and perpetuating myths which back their political aims.

I remember the poster who that poster who had bizzare predilection for North Korea.

TwoShedsJackson

One thing I've learned from AH is that if you are poor or on the dole it's your own fault for being such a lazy freeloader.

anncoates

There definitely seems to be a quite young/studently demographic that nonetheless appear remarkably well versed and experienced in topics like old age, taxes, parenting, long term unemployment,marriage and so on.

evolving_doors

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Sarah the Nurse Tom the Garda ?

naa, the op mentioned wealthy middle class, so thats definitely private sector

tritium

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

One thing I've learned from AH is that if you are poor or on the dole it's your own fault for being such a lazy freeloader.

Or if you're earning a half decent wage you're a parasite who should flog yourself and wear sackcloth while paying 90%tax....

Or if you work in certain jobs its all your fault that the country is down the toilet...

Boards can often seem like a wash, rinse, repeat of the same complaints directed at whichever group is flavour of the month at present

whatismyname

I'm definitely working class, although less so than when I was growing up... Interesting observation OP, I don't think I ever really give any conscious thought to class etc. People yes, and what they're like, their characteristics etc, but class wouldn't even come into it for me.

Citroen2cv

Oh there you go, bringing class into it again.

Wang King

LadyAthame wrote: »

It falls from the sky and we pee it.

I'll be around for a cup of your finest morning brew!

Yuri Checkov

Boards.ie is the home of the rabid shinnerbot types that subsist at the public's expense.

cloud493

I'm working class, but would generally have somewhat left of centre political beliefs, so to speak.

who the fug

porsche959 wrote: »

There are a number of very vocal posters with very right wing opinions. They are not representative of the silent (or not so silent) majority.

There are a number of very vocal posters with very left wing opinions. They are not representative of the silent (or not so silent) majority

Eugene Norman

who the fug wrote: »

There are a number of very vocal posters with very left wing opinions. They are not representative of the silent (or not so silent) majority

Boards is more hostile to the water charge protestors than the water charges, the reverse of real life opinion.

It also has a crazy number of libertarians. I mean if I owned a pub with the countries smallest snug and the libertarian party of Ireland wanted their annual do, I'd close down half the snug and give them the rest.

Here they dominate politics. Particularly Permabear and his permabots.

KomradeBishop

While I wouldn't say any one person leads with Lib posters, they do definitely have a disproportionate presence on Politics for sure - and I personally think that discourse in those forums is heavily politically skewed.

I recently privately queried if I could post in Politics Cafe, and was told that I can if I do not mention my own MMT economic/political views - so there is also indirect political censorship on Boards as well (mods/admins genuinely don't view it that way mind - I think there is a lot of groupthink behind the scenes, which skews how quality of discourse on the forum is viewed).

who the fug

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Boards is more hostile to the water charge protestors than the water charges, the reverse of real life opinion.

It also has a crazy number of libertarians. I mean if I owned a pub with the countries smallest snug and the libertarian party of Ireland wanted their annual do, I'd close down half the snug and give them the rest.

Here they dominate politics. Particularly Permabear and his permabots.

So all them right wing nuts are voting for Labour on the UK election thread?

Huntergonzo

I'm certainly not middle class, I would be above that to be fair, for me it's champagne, cigars and crab claws.

julie385

porsche959 wrote: »

There are a number of very vocal posters with very right wing opinions. They are not representative of the silent (or not so silent) majority.

More like horrible FF/FG opinions. Not even right wing.
I can't understand why so many people on boards want to pay more tax.

osarusan

Home of the re-reg class.

Neither did I

Is middle class a reflection of your income or your outlook?

suicide_circus

A lot of painfully right-on types jostling to be the most rainbow coloured.

Dr_Bill

Maybe the silent majority couldn't give a monkeys, so maybe they are centralists and neither left nor right. Maybe they choose not to bother to post here, we'll never know because they are well... silent!

VinLieger

Do the bourgeois masses even have internet or know how to work it?

Aongus Von Bismarck

It contains a high proportion of posters who mistake their jealousy and biases for some sort of profound insight on the human condition.

DoYouEvenLift

Pretty much all lower class kids have smart phones these days I would imagine so they're free to join the rest of the world on the internet and use it to educate themselves in ways they otherwise never would've been able to. That is if, of course, their A.D.D allows them to log out of Facebook or other useless social media sites and porn for a while.

Huntergonzo

Neither did I wrote: »

Is middle class a reflection of your income or your outlook?

Neither, it's just a fancy label they (chiefly the government) stick on you so you don't think you're working class and therefore will accept paying higher tax rates because think about it, surely everybody who's working is working class!

FactCheck

I think people are always inclined to notice the people who are not like them more than the people that are. There's a lot of self-selection going on too. Nobody reads every thread in every forum - indeed probably nobody manages to read every post in After Hours. So the same people with the same interest in the same topics see each other again and again and they think that's all there is to Boards.

I've said it before but one of the things I like best about Boards (indeed it's probably pretty much the only reason I read here) is seeing the opinions and background of people very different to me. I live in a bubble - tbh I think the vast majority of people do, they just don't know it or they don't want to admit to it - and it's nice to get to peek outside it.

RonanP77

I never really understood how you define middle class. Is it based on how they were brought up? Does education, occupation and salary determine class? What about the type of house you live in or how many properties you own? I'm from a working class background but my wife may be middle class. Did I bring her down to my level by marrying her or did she elevate me to her level?

I'm not into politics in the slightest so I have no idea what's right wing or left wing, I couldn't tell you which one I am.

noway12345

Hi. It's me. The person who started this thread.

The reason I think boards.ie is a home for the middle class is because of my reading of a number of different forums. I was looking for advice in the fitness forum and it seems a lot of people there spend a lot of money on fitness stuff. Like crossfit costs a lot but most on that forum see it as value. A couple of hundred a month?
I was in the legal discussions forum looking for advice on a minor road traffic offence I committed and 90% of replies were telling me to just pay the fine and they were defending the guard who gave me the fine. When I came up with a way of trying to get away with the fine someone told me they were going to forward the thread onto the gardaí! In other threads I seen there it seems that the authorities can do no wrong.
Also in the accomadation forum, any complaints by tenants gets bashed. People seem to be always taking the landlords side. In the dentist forum you're not allowed to discuss the price of dentistry in Ireland!!!! I could go on and this is from my limited reading of boards.ie. I haven't read the majority of this site. This could mean I've just read the parts that give the impression that this is a site for the middle class or it could mean that this really is a site for the middle class.

Huntergonzo

RonanP77 wrote: »

I never really understood how you define middle class. Is it based on how they were brought up? Does education, occupation and salary determine class? What about the type of house you live in or how many properties you own? I'm from a working class background but my wife may be middle class. Did I bring her down to my level by marrying her or did she elevate me to her level?

I'm not into politics in the slightest so I have no idea what's right wing or left wing, I couldn't tell you which one I am.

Again I wouldn't think too much about labels to be honest, there's no real middle class, you're either ruling class (but most of them work, so technically they're also working class), working class or unemployed as far as I can tell.

Politicians love to label people with things, it makes it easier for them to makes false promises. You should follow politics during general elections though, that's when you hear all really good stuff, pure comedy.

TwoShedsJackson

noway12345 wrote: »

Hi. It's me. The person who started this thread.

The reason I think boards.ie is a home for the middle class is because of my reading of a number of different forums. I was looking for advice in the fitness forum and it seems a lot of people there spend a lot of money on fitness stuff. Like crossfit costs a lot but most on that forum see it as value. A couple of hundred a month?
I was in the legal discussions forum looking for advice on a minor road traffic offence I committed and 90% of replies were telling me to just pay the fine and they were defending the guard who gave me the fine. When I came up with a way of trying to get away with the fine someone told me they were going to forward the thread onto the gardaí! In other threads I seen there it seems that the authorities can do no wrong.
Also in the accomadation forum, any complaints by tenants gets bashed. People seem to be always taking the landlords side. In the dentist forum you're not allowed to discuss the price of dentistry in Ireland!!!! I could go on and this is from my limited reading of boards.ie. I haven't read the majority of this site. This could mean I've just read the parts that give the impression that this is a site for the middle class or it could mean that this really is a site for the middle class.

There are people out there with disposable income - if I wanted to I could spend 200 a month on a hobby. I'm not middle class.

People advising you to obey the law and or/pay a fine which you should be paying doesn't make them middle class. No idea of the details but one thing that gets a lot of people's backs up is chancers trying to weasel their way out of fines for things they actually did, by coming up with some pseudo-Freeman crap about how their name was spelt wrong on the notice or the Guard didn't have his hat on.

noway12345

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

There are people out there with disposable income - if I wanted to I could spend 200 a month on a hobby. I'm not middle class.

People advising you to obey the law and or/pay a fine which you should be paying doesn't make them middle class. No idea of the details but one thing that gets a lot of people's backs up is chancers trying to weasel their way out of fines for things they actually did, by coming up with some pseudo-Freeman crap about how their name was spelt wrong on the notice or the Guard didn't have his hat on.

200 a month on a hobby? Most people I know are struggling to meet bills.

I was using my case as an example. The side of the establishment is taken on nearly every forum.

osarusan

noway12345 wrote: »

I was in the legal discussions forum looking for advice on a minor road traffic offence I committed and 90% of replies were telling me to just pay the fine and they were defending the guard who gave me the fine. When I came up with a way of trying to get away with the fine someone told me they were going to forward the thread onto the gardaí!

Not being sympathetic when you break the law and try to avoid paying the fine is indicative of middle class (with you openly suspecting that people who disagree with you are guards or close to guards)?

noway12345

osarusan wrote: »

Not being sympathetic when you break the law and try to avoid paying the fine is indicative of middle class?

I was using that as an example of where the establishment view is always held.

The guard in question was sarcastic and obnoxious, the fine was for something menial. Everyone I've talked to about it in real life have said how unfair it was and how much of a prick the guard was but not on boards.ie.

Cuban Pete

noway12345 wrote: »

I was using that as an example of where the establishment view is always held.

What, exactly, were you expecting from a forum titled "Legal Discussion"? Advocating people break the law and suggesting ways to do so are not allowed on the site for obvious reasons (it could get the site into a lot of trouble, legally).

VinLieger

noway12345 wrote: »

I was using that as an example of where the establishment view is always held.

The guard in question was sarcastic and obnoxious, the fine was for something menial. Everyone I've talked to about it in real life have said how unfair it was and how much of a prick the guard was but not on boards.ie.

Yeah cus they are your friends and will automatically take your side cus they have a bias, here there is no such bias cus we don't personally know you or care how hard done by you feel, the gardai enforce the law and you broke it, if you felt strongly enough the fine was handed out incorrectly you could fight it which you didn't so you obviously accept you did break a law so you have to pay for that fact and learn to not do it again.

People are just pointing out that was a really bad analogy to try and make your point that boards is middle class

noway12345

Cuban Pete wrote: »

What, exactly, were you expecting from a forum titled "Legal Discussion"? Advocating people break the law and suggesting ways to do so are not allowed on the site for obvious reasons (it could get the site into a lot of trouble, legally).

No I wasn't expecting that. I thought more would have said what was said to me in real life. That the fine was very unfair and a lot of guards can be very ignorant and rude.

noway12345

VinLieger wrote: »

Yeah cus they are your friends and will automatically take your side cus they have a bias, here there is no such bias cus we don't personally know you or care how hard done by you feel, the gardai enforce the law and you broke it, if you felt strongly enough the fine was handed out incorrectly you could fight it which you didn't so you obviously accept you did break a law so you have to pay for that fact and learn to not do it again.

People are just pointing out that was a really bad analogy to try and make your point that boards is middle class

It's not because here I am again in the same situation! The establishment is being defended, you don't even know the details of the incident.

Stheno

noway12345 wrote: »

No I wasn't expecting that. I thought more would have said what was said to me in real life. That the fine was very unfair and a lot of guards can be very ignorant and rude.

Is this the fine you got for being caught knowingly driving in a bus lane?

VinLieger

noway12345 wrote: »

No I wasn't expecting that. I thought more would have said what was said to me in real life. That the fine was very unfair and a lot of guards can be very ignorant and rude.

Which is a ridiculous expectation to have, also labeling anyone who doesnt agree with you in this situation as middle class is also just lazy

Penny Tration

noway12345 wrote: »

Hi. It's me. The person who started this thread.

The reason I think boards.ie is a home for the middle class is because of my reading of a number of different forums. I was looking for advice in the fitness forum and it seems a lot of people there spend a lot of money on fitness stuff. Like crossfit costs a lot but most on that forum see it as value. A couple of hundred a month?
I was in the legal discussions forum looking for advice on a minor road traffic offence I committed and 90% of replies were telling me to just pay the fine and they were defending the guard who gave me the fine. When I came up with a way of trying to get away with the fine someone told me they were going to forward the thread onto the gardaí! In other threads I seen there it seems that the authorities can do no wrong.
Also in the accomadation forum, any complaints by tenants gets bashed. People seem to be always taking the landlords side. In the dentist forum you're not allowed to discuss the price of dentistry in Ireland!!!! I could go on and this is from my limited reading of boards.ie. I haven't read the majority of this site. This could mean I've just read the parts that give the impression that this is a site for the middle class or it could mean that this really is a site for the middle class.

Spending money on fitness isn't a bad thing.

Your thread was just you looking to get out of paying a fine for an offence you deliberately committed.

Tenants aren't bashed often at all in accommodation and property. Landlords are, frequently.

I'm working class, just to add.

Eugene Norman

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Neither, it's just a fancy label they (chiefly the government) stick on you so you don't think you're working class and therefore will accept paying higher tax rates because think about it, surely everybody who's working is working class!

Yeh. In the 19th century and before the elites and the gentry didn't work. That was about 5% of the population or so. The working class was everybody else.

noway12345

Stheno wrote: »

Is this the fine you got for being caught knowingly driving in a bus lane?

For 50 metres.

noway12345

VinLieger wrote: »

Which is a ridiculous expectation to have, also labeling anyone who doesnt agree with you in this situation as middle class is also just lazy

Why? The fine was clearly unfair.

Eugene Norman

noway12345 wrote: »

200 a month on a hobby? Most people I know are struggling to meet bills.

I was using my case as an example. The side of the establishment is taken on nearly every forum.

200 a month disposable isn't middle class. You might be poor though. And are you sure you don't spend that much on something? Drinks and entertainment. Cigarettes maybe? I spent 150 a month on going out, but that's just a pub and taxis, the odd enterance fee.

If just drinks it's about 30 a month or 5-6 pints a week.