Weaning confusion!

mirrorwall14

So my baba had his three month check today (all well) and the PHN went through weaning with me. Now I was leaning towards BLW but now I'm totally confused. My understanding for weaning was pure plain foods were advisable nowadays from 6 months on whether its a puree or a carrot baton. The PHN says that because he's formula fed I should be introducing food from 4 months and the first food listed is baby rice??!

My plan had been to wait until he is able to put things accurately in his mouth and is reaching for food (he already has sufficient head control nurse says) preferably close to 6 months. Then I was going to try BLW and some spoon fed if needed (things like yoghurt). Is this ok? It seems so contradictory. And why baby rice? Surely 'proper food' would be best?

SF12

First off - I'm at 10 months, and I'm still in weaning confusion The number one thing that I will say is that everybody - and I mean everybody - has a different opinion and approach. I got really uptight about the whole thing around the 7-8 mth mark, really worried about what she was eating, how much, the consistency, what she "should" be doing...and I've since kind of stopped caring. But talk about being overwhelmed....

Anyway, for what it's worth, we started around 20 weeks (she would have taken the spoon out of my hand at that stage if she could have). I THINK that when breastfeeding you have to (should?) hold off til 6 months, but when formula feeding, it's ok to start at 4 months or so. Biologically, they must be 17 weeks before any solid food is introduced because their little digestive systems just can't process it. So that seems to be (undisputed) point no.1!

You can't really wait til they put things accurately in their mouth, because that is part of coordination and fine motor movement, and actually, eating is a huge part in developing that. They learn a lot of that through eating apparently.

Nothing wrong with baby rice, as I understand it, but nothing wrong with leaving it out either and (if starting before 6 months), going straight for pureed carrot and the like. I think baby rice is very plain, it's more just to get them used to the feeling of solids in their mouth, that they won't suck it down like liquid.

We didn't go the BLW route exactly - I spoon fed, but gave her little morsels off my plate most days too, which she happily chomped on. We mix and match a bit, and she's quite good these days. That worked for us but may not work for you. Our PHN recommended a good book called "Feed your child well" written by Temple St dieticians. Now it doesn't really do BLW, but it's very good for practical information on when to start weaning and the pitfalls, advise on what types of food are good and bad etc, and what to look out for (includes advice on reflux), how much liquid they should be having etc. Otherwise there are loads of FB pages and threads about BLW that you can use for help if you need it. You don't realise it until you're watching, but they literally have to learn to chew, swallow and gag properly - those actions are a learning experience in themselves.

Good luck and be prepared for many days of confusion!!!

LegacyUser

Current guidelines are that all babies should be 6mo before introducing solids. But if a formula fed baby, after 17 weeks, is still hungry in spite of drinking maximum levels of formula, then it is better to introduce solids instead of increasing solids. This is because increasing formula amounts above the recommend amounts can lead to sodium overdose but a breastfeeding mother can increase milk feeds with no adverse effects on the baby. But if a formula fed baby is satisfied with their bottles then the guidelines are to wait until 26 weeks as their digestive systems can handle food better then.

dori_dormer

Baby rice is gross, gloopy tasteless stuff. I would hate for it to be the first food my baby ever tasted!

There is no need for babies to wean early at 4 months. I ignored most of what my phone nurse said about weaning/ sleeping schedules etc. studies are now leaning towards blw rather than purées. I saw someone here say that they are still mashing their child's food at 18 mths!

A mantra people always say is "food before 1 is just for fun" all babies nutrition will mostly come from Formula/ breastmilk before the age of one, so there is no need to panic.

It is advised that babies get finger foods from 6 months anyway so there is no reason most babies wouldn't be able for Blw. We just gave some of what we were having in the beginning, fruit / steamed veg in sticks etc. so much easier and hassle free. At 15 mths our guy will eat almost everything no problem.

There is a great book, called the blw cookbook which has some brill recipes. Also excellent fb groups you can join with any questions.

lazygal

Grr, so annoying to hear that PHNs are still recommending outdated things like this. The WHO guide for weaning is from six months, no matter how the child is fed. As babies at six months don't need food to be pureed, its not necessary to spoonfeed them mush like baby rice. You can start straight away when baby is ready from six months on, some first foods for us were roasted veg, porridge fingers, sliced fruit and scrambled eggs. Once you're careful about sugar and salt and make sure there's no allergies, you're fine.

pwurple

PHN has missed a good bit of training.

For a long time the HSE advice has been to start weaning at 6 months, formula or breastfed.
Here is the HSE link
http://www.hse.ie/eng/health/az/W/Weaning/
And here, more HSE guidelines about halfway down the page
http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/2/PrimaryCare/pcteams/dublinsouthpcts/dunlaoghaireglasthulepct/infantchildfeeding.html

Both say 6 months.

Baby rice isn't recommended anymore either.

BLW is the name of a book and franchise (aka money-making racket), and I don't subscribe to it myself. We did what I would call normal weaning. Baby ate little bits of what we ate. Porridge and soups etc would be from a spoon, because I eat them from a spoon. (Didn't go faffing about making fingers out of it). Everything else they grabbed and chewed themselves. For choking, make sure the pieces are either way too big to choke on, or way too small. A grape is about the size you want to avoid, that's the size of a babies airway.

We started with fruit and veg. Bits of avocado, banana. A soft pear. etc.

Yes, proper food is best, and wait til he shows an interset.


Oh, and watch the allergens. If you're giving him an allergen (like egg, peanut butter)... try not to make it his first food ever, and watch for reactions 20 minutes later.

lazygal

pwurple wrote: »

BLW is the name of a book and franchise (aka money-making racket), and I don't subscribe to it myself. We did what I would call normal weaning. Baby ate little bits of what we ate. Porridge and soups etc would be from a spoon, (Didn't go faffing about making fingers out of it). Everything else they grabbed and chewed themselves. For choking, make sure the pieces are either way too big to choke on, or way too small. A grape is about the size you want to avoid, that's the size of a babies airway.

We started with fruit and veg. Bits of avocado, banana. A soft pear. etc.

Yes, proper food is best, and wait til he shows an interset.

I think you might be mistaken. I borrowed the book from the library for free and got a second hand version of the cookbook for not much money, which I passed on to friends. It hasn't really cost me a penny. There's free FB groups for it too, so I don't understand why you'd think its a money making racket? Most people I know who did BLW didn't buy anything they wouldn't have bought regardless of how they weaned, like a high chair and bibs. Who cares what its called anyway. There's no 'franchise' I'm aware of in operation.

mirrorwall14

The booklet she gave me from the HSE does say not before 17 weeks and not later than 26 weeks but the next page 'stages' only goes from six months so it seems even they a a bit confused on it.

I think I'll stick with my original idea, thanks everyone. I'll start when he's showing the signs or just before six months, whichever comes first and do a combination-if its a spoon type food then spoonfeed. If it's not then fingers.

I'll probably change my mind multiple times again I guess. It's just that I'm back at work in May but finish for the summer holidays in June so ideally I'd prefer to get him back into a routine at home with me before I start any weaning. She just seemed so insistent on four months!

SF12

I found the general consensus seemed to be that 6 months is the appropriate time to start - most of the literature out there seems to be based around started at 6 months anyway. I think your PHN is a bit off in her advice, tbh. I just gave it 17 weeks + a few (to give her system a bit of a chance!), then I decided what week suited best after that.

I think weaning really was the time when the terror of "you mean I need to know what to do??There's no rule book?" really set in. Up to then you know about milk feeds and things are mainly fairly in stone in a way, but weaning - it's been interesting

CarpeDiem85

I went to a parenting course a few weeks ago and all the older mothers were chatting about how they weaned their wee ones at 3 months back in the day. The rules, regulations and guidelines are just constantly changing. Just go with your own gut is what I did in the end up. My little one started getting hungrier and waking up earlier around 5 months so I started then. It's a minefield but it'll all work out eventually. I definitely wouldn't give baby rice either, it clogs the babies up and is tasteless. I think I started with homemade Apple puree and only gave a new taste every two days, just in case there was an allergy and it took a day or two to show up. Then after a month or two, I added in combined favours like apple, pear and blueberry. It's mad because the food that my baby didn't taste early on, she doesn't like now at 21 months so starting early and giving plenty of variety is good.

emer_b

That book mentioned by SF12 is very good "Feed your child well", practical advice with sample feeding schedules, and Irish, so it mentions food stuffs and brands that are commonly used here. I'm referring to it again now with my second baby who is 10 months old.
I did BLW with my first and I kinda regret it now. She's not a great eater and I was always trying to come up with little things for her to try and packing up 10 different little bits and pieces to send to childminder with her. Maybe some people take that in their stride but I found it quite time consuming. Especially as it didn't really suit the type of dinners I usually make, curries, stir-frys etc.
this time I'm making up batches of meat&over that I mash/purée and freeze, which is just so handy, and in the evenings I give her a little bit of finger food to play with which she also loves.
It really depends on what suits your family mealtimes and what your baby enjoys.
At the start, the hardest bit to figure out is how to fit in the meals around the milk feeds and naps!
I agree that baby rice is awful stuff, tasteless gloop. I would use a spoon of it to thicken something up though.
Good luck!

Ocean Blue

SF12 wrote: »

First off - I'm at 10 months, and I'm still in weaning confusion The number one thing that I will say is that everybody - and I mean everybody - has a different opinion and approach. I got really uptight about the whole thing around the 7-8 mth mark, really worried about what she was eating, how much, the consistency, what she "should" be doing...and I've since kind of stopped caring. But talk about being overwhelmed....

Anyway, for what it's worth, we started around 20 weeks (she would have taken the spoon out of my hand at that stage if she could have). I THINK that when breastfeeding you have to (should?) hold off til 6 months, but when formula feeding, it's ok to start at 4 months or so. Biologically, they must be 17 weeks before any solid food is introduced because their little digestive systems just can't process it. So that seems to be (undisputed) point no.1!

You can't really wait til they put things accurately in their mouth, because that is part of coordination and fine motor movement, and actually, eating is a huge part in developing that. They learn a lot of that through eating apparently.

Nothing wrong with baby rice, as I understand it, but nothing wrong with leaving it out either and (if starting before 6 months), going straight for pureed carrot and the like. I think baby rice is very plain, it's more just to get them used to the feeling of solids in their mouth, that they won't suck it down like liquid.

We didn't go the BLW route exactly - I spoon fed, but gave her little morsels off my plate most days too, which she happily chomped on. We mix and match a bit, and she's quite good these days. That worked for us but may not work for you. Our PHN recommended a good book called "Feed your child well" written by Temple St dieticians. Now it doesn't really do BLW, but it's very good for practical information on when to start weaning and the pitfalls, advise on what types of food are good and bad etc, and what to look out for (includes advice on reflux), how much liquid they should be having etc. Otherwise there are loads of FB pages and threads about BLW that you can use for help if you need it. You don't realise it until you're watching, but they literally have to learn to chew, swallow and gag properly - those actions are a learning experience in themselves.

Good luck and be prepared for many days of confusion!!!

Where can you get the temple street book?

SF12

I got it on Amazon. It's not that cheap - well I think it was about 15eur for the book. I think it's on it's 3rd edition now. My PHN just told me to look online for it, and maybe get it second hand if I could.
It's not full of recipes now, just suggested meal planners. It's mainly for nutritional advice as emer_b said, but it covers nutrition for kids from breastfeeding up to about 10 years old, so it's handy.
Also OP, I use a couple of Anabel Karmel recipe books (for inspiration!) and the First1000Days recipe book too, which is handy for the whole family.
I should add that I do something similar to emer_b....the pureeing was a bit of a nuisance for the first few weeks, but now it's quite handy because I can just make her dinner with ours and mash it up a bit, and pre-freeze food in batches too. She gets plenty of finger food with it, so it works ok for us.

otwb1

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

The PHN says that because he's formula fed I should be introducing food from 4 months and the first food listed is baby rice??!

You can either just smile and nod and do your own thing OR point her to the HSE, NHS and WHO guidelines which say 6 months is the best time to start.

I go on the basis that you'd be introducing finger food at that point anyway so skiped the pureeing. I mash spuds from time to time and mix it in with food. I don't bother making everything into finger food either a-la BLW muffins and porridge sticks. So it's pretty much wahtever we're all eating. If it needs to be eaten with a spoon then lo gets it on a loaded spoon and he puts it in his mouth himself, if it's roasted veg/steak strips/lasagne/anything else then he eats it himself with his fingers.

Enjoy your weaning journey! (and invest in a dog, or a mop, or a cleaner... !)

John Mason

we done BLW. basically he just eats what we eat, pasta, curries, stir fry etc. (enchiladas today).

i have never spoon fed him anything, i really couldnt be arsed with the hassle spoon feeding and pureeing.

we just throw whatever on his tray and let him him get on with it. its great fun

mirrorwall14

Just to update this for anyone who reads it, I saw my GP this morning and chatted to a friend (also a GP) and both say that it's not because he's formula fed, it's because he has reflux. It can help babies get off meds earlier and food stay down. The PHN hadn't mentioned that to me. My friend says though she's also seen it increase reflux a couple of times so it isn't a catch all and has warned me off some foods and to introduce one food at a time to make sure I catch anything that makes it worse.

This seems to make more sense and from reading online it seems to be a common recommendation for reflux. I'm a bit happier with the explanation and more willing to give it a go if it helps him at all with the reflux even if it's means puree making! It's so sore on him. I'll just have to introduce the BLW aspects as soon as he is ready

Lashes28

My PHN recommended 17 weeks and rice too because she's still feeding every three hours, I just smiled and nodded. She's nowhere near ready to eat just yet!

pwurple

My baby had reflux mirrorwall, but it seemed to ease itself around 16 weeks. I wanted to wait until it was completly gone before i introduced so,ething new.

I think the baby is a fairly good indicator. When they start trying to eat your food, or show an interest.

Roesy

The paediatrician I saw for my daughters reflux said that she wouldn't recommend very early weaning(17 weeks). She said as close to 6 months as possible but 21/22 weeks was the earliest she'd recommend trying it to see would it help if the reflux still hadn't eased off with the medication. We started a slow introduction at around 22/23 weeks but it made no difference to her reflux. She was very interested in food and eating and did have good head control at that stage though and wasn't slumped in the high chair. Within a couple of weeks she was grabbing the spoon herself and we moved to towards mainly self feeding/BLW.

SF12

We have silent reflux here. Early weaning is no guarantee to be honest. I've found she was still quite refluxy. As she's got older and is eating more solid thicker food, it's improved, but didn't make much of a difference for the first couple of months. I think it's in conjunction with being able to fully sit by themselves that the reflux improves, not just by feeding solids. As I said, we started around 20-21 weeks partly because of the reflux, but I can't say it made a massive difference. I was told aswell that early weaning (at 17 weeks) would help the reflux - but I was trying to balance that with giving her internal system a chance to really fully develop.

You know your baby, so go with your gut. I can't imagine that 3-4 weeks either way will make a hugely significant difference. Like I said, this is when the terror of "you mean there's no rulebook?" really set in for me

Brian?

We did the baby rice-mush-normal food progression from 4 months on son number 1. Everything went well.

We did baby lead weaning starting at 6 months on son number 2. Everything went well.

So I wouldn't overly stress about it. Baby weaning is so much easier for the parents, no hours of steaming and pureeing food, but there are some worrying moments when the wee ones gag on food. Sometimes it was very difficult for my wife, we had the "he's not choking, he's gagging" talk many times. I think what really kept us on course was my years of first aid training, it was never needed but it put herself at ease.

In general public health nurses are way behind the times so factor that into your decision.

RentDayBlues

Brian? wrote: »

In general public health nurses are way behind the times so factor that into your decision.

Amen to that!

Dolbert

My baby is 20 weeks and I've been getting it from all sides. He hasn't much interest in food and sleeps until 6 or 7 most nights, yet I'm still being pressured! Both families have a history of gut and stomach issues so it's baffling. I'm perfectly happy to wait until 24 weeks but I'm surprised at how 'enthusiastic' people are when voicing their opinions!

Soooky

Dolbert wrote: »

My baby is 20 weeks and I've been getting it from all sides. He hasn't much interest in food and sleeps until 6 or 7 most nights, yet I'm still being pressured! Both families have a history of gut and stomach issues so it's baffling. I'm perfectly happy to wait until 24 weeks but I'm surprised at how 'enthusiastic' people are when voicing their opinions!

God yes had this too :(:( Aunties are retired nurses and were vehement in their insistence that babies should be started on baby rice at 4 months old! When I said that the HSE guidelines advise to wait until 6 months I was told "no wonder the poor babies are chewing the hands off themselves, they're starving!" :mad::mad: Really didn't help my confidence :mad::mad: The fact that I was breastfeeding added to the "poor starving babies" comments :rolleyes::rolleyes: