Intervening in kids bullying?

TheBeardedLady

nathang20 wrote: »

Its just pack mentality, that's all. Very easily controlled...

Certainly when adults intervene it is but among themselves, it's not so easy to control.

Happyman42

You probably have the technology in your pocket...record it when you see it. Make sure they know if you see any more of it that your recording goes to the school and Gardai.
Did it on a persistent fly-tipper on my property, the threat to send it to the council and Gardai had him eating out of my hand (still) and he removed the rubbish he had dumped.

househero

Happyman42 wrote: »

You probably have the technology in your pocket...record it when you see it. Make sure they know if you see any more of it that your recording goes to the school and Gardai.
Did it on a persistent fly-tipper on my property, the threat to send it to the council and Gardai had him eating out of my hand (still) and he removed the rubbish he had dumped.

Clever boy. Do this op. Although the poor bullied kid will be just as worried that he will be seen in YouTube being bullied too

Happyman42

househero wrote: »

Clever boy. Do this op. Although the poor bullied kid will be just as worried that he will be seen in YouTube being bullied too

If you get it on film you don't need to judge them, just tell them if you see any more of the behaviour then the tape goes to the school and Gardai.

The look on my fly-tippers face when he saw the footage was just priceless(I just walked up beside him the next day and showed him it) I then said if the ground wasn't cleared by the next evening the Council environment dept and the Gardai would be getting a copy. Walked away from him. Job done next evening (although the cheeky pup asked me to give him a hand to lift a bit of it)

Cold War Kid

K4t wrote: »

Studies have shown there is a direct correlation between parents voting No in the upcoming referendum on marriage and their kids being bullied.

But bullying is just exercising their freedom of speech.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

here228 wrote: »

Were they in uniform? Notify the principal of the school right away. Chances are the principal will be able to identify them if you're able to give any sort of description. Poor boy. There's a few schools close to the canal but a boys one particularly close by

They were in uniform alright but I couldn't make it out (they had jackets and stuff and I was out range of my terrible eyesight). I can think of two lads' schools nearby (this was the part of the canal just up from the back of the roisin if you're heading down towards the cathedral)

Happyman42 wrote: »

You probably have the technology in your pocket...record it when you see it. Make sure they know if you see any more of it that your recording goes to the school and Gardai.
Did it on a persistent fly-tipper on my property, the threat to send it to the council and Gardai had him eating out of my hand (still) and he removed the rubbish he had dumped.

Yeah, that did occur to me (after the fact of course ). I've got a €20 brick of a phone right now though unfortunately.

K4t

Cold War Kid wrote: »

But bullying is just exercising their freedom of speech.

Beating someone up isn't speech..

Happyman42

Miley Old-fashioned Escalator wrote: »

They were in uniform alright but I couldn't make it out (they had jackets and stuff and I was out range of my terrible eyesight). I can think of two lads' schools nearby (this was the part of the canal just up from the back of the roisin if you're heading down towards the cathedral)



Yeah, that did occur to me (after the fact of course ). I've got a €20 brick of a phone right now though unfortunately.

They don't have to know the quality, or that you where too far away, they won't take the risk of being identified. Kids are more worried about being caught bullying these days.

Cold War Kid

K4t wrote: »

Beating someone up isn't speech..

Freedom of expression so, and the verbal aspects are just freedom of speech. After all, to hell with those on the receiving end - as long as freedom of speech is the priority.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Happyman42 wrote: »

They don't have to know the quality, or that you where too far away, they won't take the risk of being identified. Kids are more worried about being caught bullying these days.

No like there's actually not a camera on it. I broke or lost several phones in the past few months so I'm just not getting nice ones any more. I suppose I could just point it at them and make threats

bodhrandude

Miley Old-fashioned Escalator wrote: »

Oh there was definitely a ring leader, but the other two weren't exactly hanging back and just following orders either

Theres only really one answer here, blondie needs coaching, or to go to martial arts like Thurman Merman (Brett Kelly) in Bad Santa,

a well aimed kick to the balls of the ring leader and cripple him.

Dtp1979

One eyed Jack wrote: »

"These days"?

I never left home without my genuine Swiss army knife in my pocket!

Ok Mcgyver

K4t

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Freedom of expression so, and the verbal aspects are just freedom of speech.

No. Neither freedom of expression or speech entail physically assaulting a person; nor should they.

After all, to hell with those on the receiving end - as long as freedom of speech is the priority.

Freedom of speech is the priority. And always should be. Not sure what you're trying to achieve here?

Happyman42

Miley Old-fashioned Escalator wrote: »

No like there's actually not a camera on it. I broke or lost several phones in the past few months so I'm just not getting nice ones any more. I suppose I could just point it at them and make threats

Stick a compact camera in your bag, they all know these things are powerful enough to catch them in the act.
Just point it at them and pretend to or film for a while before shouting or until they notice you and ask what you are doing, even better.

Cold War Kid

K4t wrote: »

Freedom of speech is the priority. And always should be.

Nah, verbal bullying shouldn't be, no. And isn't, thankfully.
Those on the receiving end should be the priority. Yes there are times when people cry bullying and it's not, they just can't handle criticism or are too thin-skinned, but I think most of us have enough common sense to be able to recognise outright verbal abuse.

I brought it up because bullying/internet reminds me of this fashion/fad of saying "Freedom of speech at all costs no matter what" even though it isn't true for one, and it legitimises verbal bullying.

UCDVet

bodhrandude wrote: »

Theres only really one answer here, blondie needs coaching, or to go to martial arts like Thurman Merman (Brett Kelly) in Bad Santa, a well aimed kick to the balls of the ring leader and cripple him.

That's not really a viable solution though. I admit it makes for a great movie ending.

First, kids (and adults) don't randomly select people to pick on. They pick on specific people, for specific reasons. Take 100 kids, put them in a strength training program for a year (or 10 years, it doesn't matter) and you'll still have one that is stronger than the rest and you'll still have one that is weaker than the rest.

Physical size and strength is hugely important in any 'real' fight. That's why MMA, boxing, wrestling (real wrestling not WWF/WWE), kickboxing, judo and just about everything else have *weight classes*. I was a terrible wrestler but I could beat a much more skilled, wrestler who was just 2-3 weight classes below me.

Kids are usually bullied for the specific reason of being physically smaller and weaker. Because they can't fight back. In anything close to a fair fight, they'd lose because they are smaller and weaker.

Second, bullies don't randomly bully people. They self-select. If a weak kid tries to steal a toy at age 3 from another kid, and gets pushed down, that kid learns not to try and steal toys. A big, strong, kid who tries to steal a toy gets the toy with no ill affects and learns that bullying gets them what they want. *Good parents* will intervene too, but what you end up with is that most bullies have bad parents, sometimes physically abusive parents or siblings, parents who are bullies themselves and encourage or condone it, and are bigger and stronger than their peers.

Perfect example of what I'm talking about. Mike Tyson. He had bad parents, grew up on the streets, was physically bigger and stronger than other people. He was a bully. Then a thug/criminal. People tend to like what they're good at. Nerdy types enjoy chess because it suits their natural abilities and tendencies . Bullies enjoy fighting and sports because it suits their natural abilities and tendencies.

The bullies I knew growing up were all ATHLETES. Some of them quite good. The bullies I knew GOT INTO FIGHTS, as a matter of pride. Most of them had a Dad that slapped them around too much or an older brother who would.

Blondie could devote himself to a serious physical training regimen/martial arts or boxing program and it could be *years* before he could actually take the ring leader in an actual fight. Possibly never. Could he pull of a kick to the nuts? MAYBE. But, unlike the TV shows, there is a very good chance the bully will come back, knowing full well it was a lucky shot. It's quite likely to escalate the situation when the kick *isn't* successful.

Cold War Kid

UCDVet wrote: »

First, kids (and adults) don't randomly select people to pick on. They pick on specific people, for specific reasons. Take 100 kids, put them in a strength training program for a year (or 10 years, it doesn't matter) and you'll still have one that is stronger than the rest and you'll still have one that is weaker than the rest.

Physical size and strength is hugely important in any 'real' fight. That's why MMA, boxing, wrestling (real wrestling not WWF/WWE), kickboxing, judo and just about everything else have *weight classes*. I was a terrible wrestler but I could beat a much more skilled, wrestler who was just 2-3 weight classes below me.

Kids are usually bullied for the specific reason of being physically smaller and weaker. Because they can't fight back. In anything close to a fair fight, they'd lose because they are smaller and weaker.

Yup, easy targets. This pervades all walks of life, including much more subtle ones than out-and-out assault.
The advice to fight back is flawed. The kid *might* manage to punch the sh-t out of the bully and ensure they're left alone from then on... or (and this is more likely I'd say) get absolutely battered and face into an even worse campaign of abuse.
Ideally fighting back would soften the bully's cough, but things aren't always ideal unfortunately.
It's a very difficult problem to tackle.

One eyed Jack

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Ok Mcgyver

Yep, one of my favourite programmes in the 80's, you probably remember it too as you're only three years younger than I am if your username is anything to go by?

It was either that, or follow Mary Fitzgerald's Make-and-do, built something like a fortress out of toilet roll inserts and sugar cubes :pac:

Dtp1979

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Yep, one of my favourite programmes in the 80's, you probably remember it too as you're only three years younger than I am if your username is anything to go by?

It was either that, or follow Mary Fitzgerald's Make-and-do, built something like a fortress out of toilet roll inserts and sugar cubes :pac:

Ah yes, Mary Fitzgerald.

NotASheeple

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

They feed off fear. I don't think any victim is apathetic, I'd say they're too scared to react.

I don't think that poster was referring to the victim, I think they were referring to the people who stand by and do nothing.

DVDM93

Cormac... wrote: »

How's things number 6?

??

suicide_circus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FytN0o1V-gQ

NotYourYear20

Putin wrote: »

All bullies are wimps and usually melt in the face of confrontation. They feed off apathy, removed the apathy and you remove the bullies.

So true.

yougoodthing

As much as you'd like to don't lay as much as a finger on them or you could be in hot water very quickly. Child protection laws will not see any justification in a 'good-kick-up-the-arse-to sort-them-out' argument. If you were seen you could be very quickly reported. At the same time, as an adult who has witnessed such an assault I think you have a moral obligation to do something about it. Afterall as well as the poor young fella suffering from it now, the effects of bullying could potentially lead to more serious and lasting issues in adulthood.

I don't envy your position but if I saw it again I would report it to the principal of the school they attend (have a look at their uniforms) and through your few 'comments' to them tell them you're going straight to the guards about them and you know who they are (even though you don't). Are there cameras around? If it was serious enough, report it.

Peregrine

I'd definitely report it to the school tbh. If the principal and vice principal are anything like what mine were, they'll definitely look into it. This doesn't really sound like a once off case. The kid probably won't tell anyone.

gossipgirl10

I was on the bus a few weeks back and saw three kids walking to school together. The oldest one was about 8 I'd say and the two younger ones looked to be only about 4. The older one looked to be a brother of one of the smaller kids. Aaaanyway I was looking out the window and I see the 2nd small kid (not the brother) hitting and pinching the older boy who was quite overweight and was wearing home made bunny ears because it was Easter. He kept shoving the older boy into the wall too but the older boy never once fought back he just looked really sad and kept walking straight ahead. Then the bully kid starts picking on the other little boy too since he was getting no reaction doing same thing shoving him and hitting him.

We were stuck in traffic and I was in complete shock looking out the window of the bus and kept looking around to see if anyone else could see this but I felt so useless as there was nothing I could do unless I started hammering on the window and shouting like a crazy person to try and make him stop. It made me so sad all day thinking about that poor boy who was probably made walk the two younger ones to school and what a nasty little bully the other kid was for his age and size. If I had been walking on the street I definitely would have told the little shit to stop it

anncoates

Nim wrote: »

I'd definitely report it to the school tbh. If the principal and vice principal are anything like what mine were, they'll definitely look into it. This doesn't really sound like a once off case. The kid probably won't tell anyone.

I actually know somebody whose child was being bullied in national school. Badly, to the extent of the child not being able to sleep before school, getting sick etc. I was amazed at ultimately how powerless the school were. Presumably because of the ages involved (about 10). The only recourse seemed to be to bring the bully's parents in, who - obviously their brat didn't lick it off a stone - just stonewalled and denied it.,

Happyman42

One of the benefits of the campaigns about bullying is that it is now seriously uncool to be labelled as one. I see the horror with my own kids at the merest suggestion that they are engaging in it.
If this is just recreational bullying that has gotten a bit out of hand then a good scare about them being found out may be enough. If it is more serious bullying then that might require more.

cloud493

Theres another girl in my young uns class whose been getting a bit of 'hassle' off this gang of girls, and they've been actively told not to intervene, which seems completely wrong to me. So I'd be reporting it.

UCDVet

Prime example for everyone saying 'stand up to bullies' and 'bullies are wimps'

Floyd Mayweather Jr. - He is currently undefeated as a professional and is a five-division world champion, having won ten world titles and the lineal championship in four different weight classes. Mayweather is a two-time Ring magazine Fighter of the Year (winning the award in 1998 and 2007); he also won the Boxing Writers Association of America (BWAA) Fighter of the Year award in 2007 and the Best Fighter ESPY Award in 2007, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2013, and 2014.

He's also a bully. His Father was a professional boxer and drug dealer. His Mom was a drug addict. He's been charged, arrested, and served time in prison multiple times.

Domestic violence in 2002
Battery in 2004
Battery against a bouncer in 2005
A whole bunch of stuff in 2010 - including 'two felony coercion charges, one felony robbery charge, one misdemeanor domestic-battery charge and three misdemeanor harassment charges'
2011 - two counts of misdemeanor harassment *against his own children* and misdemeanor battery.

Everyone advocating standing up to the bully needs to remember that there a bullies at every level, up to and including world class professional fighters. Telling some tiny kid to take a Karate class is not a viable solution in many cases.

If Floyd Mayweather Jr. decided to kick my ass, or the ass of anyone on boards.ie (and given his history, that's not that unreasonable), standing up to him isn't going to help. Taking a self defense class is not going to help.

Sleepy

Most schoolyard bullies aren't Floyd Mayweather though. We're talking about 12/13 year olds here, a "kicking" doesn't tend to go beyond a few bruises, a split lip or, at worst, a black eye.

I spent a year and a half in a Bray secondary school before my family moved to Galway. There were a group of lads from a rougher part of Bray who used to do what they called "LAPD Raids" where seven or eight of them would jump one of the smaller/quieter guys. I got it a few times and just took the beating until I finally had enough of it and through a few punches at the first couple who came my way. Split the ring-leaders lip with a lucky punch and caught another guy on the ear during the ensuing scuffle. I got the crap kicked out of me that day but I never got touched again. During a few trips back to Bray after I'd moved I actually ended up on reasonable enough terms with the ring-leader.

A similar thing happened when I started in the new school. The class bully (second biggest guy in the class, the biggest was a gentle giant who ended up playing professional rugby) made a bee-line for the kids with the funny accent, started off with slagging, escalated to a pushing match when I threw a few slags back a week or so later and got the fright of his life when I punched him in the mouth. He pretty much battered me in the ensuing scrap but he held out the hand a few days later to make the peace. We've never been friends but we'd say hi if we run into each other in the street/ nod a hello across the pub.

It's not so much fun to bully someone who has the capacity to hurt you back even if you're hurting them more. It's been my advice to kids being bullied ever since: make sure you land one good punch on the ring-leader. After the ensuing kicking (which you're going to get anyway), they'll move onto an easier target.

UCDVet

Sleepy wrote: »

Most schoolyard bullies aren't Floyd Mayweather though. We're talking about 12/13 year olds here, a "kicking" doesn't tend to go beyond a few bruises, a split lip or, at worst, a black eye.

I spent a year and a half in a Bray secondary school before my family moved to Galway. There were a group of lads from a rougher part of Bray who used to do what they called "LAPD Raids" where seven or eight of them would jump one of the smaller/quieter guys. I got it a few times and just took the beating until I finally had enough of it and through a few punches at the first couple who came my way. Split the ring-leaders lip with a lucky punch and caught another guy on the ear during the ensuing scuffle. I got the crap kicked out of me that day but I never got touched again. During a few trips back to Bray after I'd moved I actually ended up on reasonable enough terms with the ring-leader.

A similar thing happened when I started in the new school. The class bully (second biggest guy in the class, the biggest was a gentle giant who ended up playing professional rugby) made a bee-line for the kids with the funny accent, started off with slagging, escalated to a pushing match when I threw a few slags back a week or so later and got the fright of his life when I punched him in the mouth. He pretty much battered me in the ensuing scrap but he held out the hand a few days later to make the peace. We've never been friends but we'd say hi if we run into each other in the street/ nod a hello across the pub.

It's not so much fun to bully someone who has the capacity to hurt you back even if you're hurting them more. It's been my advice to kids being bullied ever since: make sure you land one good punch on the ring-leader. After the ensuing kicking (which you're going to get anyway), they'll move onto an easier target.

I'm not saying it can't work....but I'm saying it's a bad policy to adopt for society as a whole. Because, at best, all we're doing is moving the bullies onto easier targets. There will ALWAYS be a weakest kid. There will always be bullies who are happy to beat on them. Training isn't a viable solution because BULLIES TRAIN TOO. No, not every bully is Floyd Mayweather, but they might as well be. My point is that, even if you took all the weak kids and started training them, it wouldn't matter because there are plenty of world class athletes who train harder and longer and who are bullies.

Now sure, if you're ALREADY going to get physically attacked, you might as well fight back. Most bullying is milder though, and it certainly can escalate it by fighting back. And as your examples show (unlike TV) you're not going to land that K.O. punch, you're just going to get beat.

Expecting kids to handle their bully problems on their own is exactly like expecting me to stand up to Floyd Mayweather or any generic tough guy who enjoys fighting. Nobody would ever expect me, an overweight desk jockey, to just 'stand up' to criminals. Seems an awfully large burden to put on the shoulders of a small child, 'Yeah - those kids that are bigger, stronger, tougher and more experienced fighters - next time, just kick the biggest meanest one in the balls! Either they'll leave you alone after that, or they'll beat you more! See ya later kid, hope it works out!'

We can't expect grown women to use an escalator at the airport these days....hardly seems to fair to expect so much from children.

Cold War Kid

Sleepy wrote: »

Most schoolyard bullies aren't Floyd Mayweather though. We're talking about 12/13 year olds here, a "kicking" doesn't tend to go beyond a few bruises, a split lip or, at worst, a black eye.

Jeez that's still a lot!

I spent a year and a half in a Bray secondary school before my family moved to Galway. There were a group of lads from a rougher part of Bray who used to do what they called "LAPD Raids" where seven or eight of them would jump one of the smaller/quieter guys. I got it a few times and just took the beating until I finally had enough of it and through a few punches at the first couple who came my way. Split the ring-leaders lip with a lucky punch and caught another guy on the ear during the ensuing scuffle. I got the crap kicked out of me that day but I never got touched again. During a few trips back to Bray after I'd moved I actually ended up on reasonable enough terms with the ring-leader.

A similar thing happened when I started in the new school. The class bully (second biggest guy in the class, the biggest was a gentle giant who ended up playing professional rugby) made a bee-line for the kids with the funny accent, started off with slagging, escalated to a pushing match when I threw a few slags back a week or so later and got the fright of his life when I punched him in the mouth. He pretty much battered me in the ensuing scrap but he held out the hand a few days later to make the peace. We've never been friends but we'd say hi if we run into each other in the street/ nod a hello across the pub.

It's not so much fun to bully someone who has the capacity to hurt you back even if you're hurting them more. It's been my advice to kids being bullied ever since: make sure you land one good punch on the ring-leader. After the ensuing kicking (which you're going to get anyway), they'll move onto an easier target.

It's the ideal but it's not a guarantee - and it's quite a risk/gamble.

I also disagree that all bullies are cowards and weak and need their gang at all times. That of course often is true, but I'd say there are bullies who are grand and confident. There was a bully in my school who was quite charismatic and charming (i.e. manipulative) and people flocked to her and felt so cool to be hanging around with her. She didn't go to them to be her gang, they came to her. She was extremely confident - but just a narcissist, and possibly sociopathic. I'd say those are the kinds of traits that power-mad dictators have.

shooterjay

its all well and good saying what you would do, but if you do youll be in serious trouble. unfornatually.

K4t

UCDVet wrote: »

If Floyd Mayweather Jr. decided to kick my ass, or the ass of anyone on boards.ie (and given his history, that's not that unreasonable), standing up to him isn't going to help. Taking a self defense class is not going to help.

*Brace yourselves - the MMA fighters are coming*

Sleepy

UCDVet, I'd like to think that things have changed since I was in school but I don't think I'd ever be confident in the ability of teachers intervention in bullying cases to work. I'm not expecting any kid to pull a Karate Kid like transformation but at the very least, some boxing / martial arts training will boost a kids confidence and make them a less likely target for a bully.

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Jeez that's still a lot!

Honestly, it's par for the course for most lads growing up and I genuinely think we may be losing something as a society when it's not. An first-hand understanding of low-level violence often helps put people off escalating to higher levels of violence (hence why you'll usually see women going for weapons faster than men in a bar fight - they've had less experience of scrapping as kids and underestimate the damage a glass bottle will do to someone).

It's the ideal but it's not a guarantee - and it's quite a risk/gamble.

It's not much of a gamble tbh: you're getting beat up either way, may as well give the other guy some pain too.

I also disagree that all bullies are cowards and weak and need their gang at all times. That of course often is true, but I'd say there are bullies who are grand and confident. There was a bully in my school who was quite charismatic and charming (i.e. manipulative) and people flocked to her and felt so cool to be hanging around with her. She didn't go to them to be her gang, they came to her. She was extremely confident - but just a narcissist, and possibly sociopathic. I'd say those are the kinds of traits that power-mad dictators have.

I'd agree on this, and tbh am glad that the bullying I got in school was of the male variety: a few insults and bruises. Girls tend to be far more vicious to each other in my experience.

Back to the op, in that situation it depend on who intervenes if the op( male or female ) has multiple tattoos looks tough roar's them out of it with the liberal use of ye little ****ers etc., it will be much more effective that some well dressed well meaning individual intervening.

The world as we would like it to be and the world as it is are vastly different places.