Bus strike

Egginacup

anncoates wrote: »

If that's true it would be good, but I'll believe it when I see it that private companies will essentially 'hardcode' loss making into their business.

Indeed. Since when did a private company tolerate a loss in the interests of the common good?

suicide_circus

Egginacup wrote: »

You don't know what you're talking about.
Take a look at Holland, Germany, Scandinavia. Travelling around those countries on public transport is a pleasure.
Gut the sh1t out of it and you'll be left with a crappy service that chooses which routes to operate and which to just abandon.

A yes, the old chestnut of the scandanvian model, which we can just shoehorn into Ireland even though the tax base and infrastructure are completely different

Egginacup

Qualitymark wrote: »

We haven't had great results from privatising the rubbish collection.

And has the quality of your water improved?.

Britain's railways were once the envy of the world. Now look at the mess privatisation has wreaked.

Captain Chaos

Egginacup wrote: »

Britain's railways were once the envy of the world. Now look at the mess privatisation has wreaked.

It was only at the very end of BR's days when they got their act together and started to make money. It was more successful privatised under LMS, LNER and GW before BR came into existence.

BR lost money hand over fist until the early '80s.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Frankly there should be a massive increase in the amount of public transport available in this country as the amount pof people driving to work one person in a car is a disgrace in this day and age.

Agreed, and to be perfectly honest I don't care whether it's a private or public bus company.
I started off commuting by bus to work and back. I lasted 6 weeks before getting into my car and driving.
Waiting 45 minutes plus for a bus, which didn't actually run anywhere near my office anyway. A fair walk at 10.30pm through a rough as hell part of the city, alone. Standing at the bus stop in the pissing rain, looking at the driver parked up in his warm bus, because he wouldn't open the door to let me on a minute ahead of departure time.

The difference cost wise between driving/parking and the bus is €1 a day for me. The difference in terms of comfort and time, is immeasurable. It takes me 25 minutes to get to work in my car, as opposed to anything from 45 to 70 minutes on the bus.

Just one example of the "disgrace" of one person vehicles commuting to the city.

Zxclnic

heroics wrote: »

Just because you support it does not mean the people of Ireland support this strike. I agree with pmasterson95. Also did a quick check in here and only 2 out of 13 supported it

I responded to a childish ''No, no they don't'' with an equally childish ''Yes, yes, yes they do''.

13 to 2 on a boards thread eh, slamdunk I'll get my coat.

jank

Glad to see the government taking legal action over lost revenue. The company is in serious financial trouble but the union thinks the government will keep the tap going. Lol, not a chance. Public Transport is one of the last things in this country that needs deregulating. They think its the 1980's still with some of the carry on and demands.

The quicker privatisation comes in the better.

pmasterson95

Zxclnic wrote: »

Yes, yes, yes they do.

Simple reading here suggests no but yeah your right (Y)

Zebra3

VinLieger wrote: »

Average dublin bus driver salary is 40k...... yeah thats working class alright........

Basic or including shift allowance and overtime?

Strange how those who push the privatisation agenda would never be up for privatising their own jobs. :rolleyes:

jank

Zebra3 wrote: »

Basic or including shift allowance and overtime?

Strange how those who push the privatisation agenda would never be up for privatising their own jobs. :rolleyes:

Not sure if serious.....


when most workers in this country work in the private sector....

VinLieger

Zebra3 wrote: »

Basic or including shift allowance and overtime?

Strange how those who push the privatisation agenda would never be up for privatising their own jobs. :rolleyes:

Basic from everything I heard last time they were on strike also my job is already in the private sector cant be further privatised than it already is

redshoes15

My mother has a part-time job working 2 days a week to make sure she has food in her press and heating in her house. Because of this strike she has had to miss both of her shifts. I wonder could someone be so kind to ask the Dublin Bus drivers to do a whip around for her down at their precious picket line? Knowing first hand the general attitude of these drivers I know exactly what the reply would be.

cloud493

I'm not for against privatisation in theory, except that dublin bus is absolutely appalling as it is, and where I lived in the UK, all public transport was privatised, and it was much much better, and there was a relatively small area/town, not a capital city.

MRnotlob606

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

No compromise with these communist dinosaurs sack the lot of them,how dare they use the good people of this city as human shields in their war against progress

What would you do if you were in their situation Mr Regan ? How are they using people as shields ? sack the lot of them ? have you familiarised yourself with international labour law ?

end of the road

thee glitz wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0430/697799-bus-strike/

The private sector shows how bus services can and should be run. I'm lucky to be able to commute using
a private operator, which costs costs €35 a week. The same is €53 with Bus Éireann. I know lots of bus drivers
who'd love to work for DB or BÉ. I'm delighted legal action is being taken over this. How dare some union
hold public transport users to ransom.

your private operator has competition so will have an incentive to run well. the tendered routes will have 1 operator per set of routes and thats it. you will like it or lump it. the union being able to stop the city from working is a good thing and is very necessary. i support their action as its for the greater good

end of the road

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

At least thats some good news to come out of it

well, its unlikely they will get a penny of that whichever the way the action goes. hopefully the unions will refuse to pay no matter what

pmasterson95

end of the road wrote: »

your private operator has competition so will have an incentive to run well. the tendered routes will have 1 operator per set of routes and thats it. you will like it or lump it. the union being able to stop the city from working is a good thing and is very necessary. i support their action as its for the greater good

The greater good that inconveniences thousands so they can keep themselves employed........yep

end of the road

Jester252 wrote: »

Just another reason why private transport is the best option for travelling around Ireland

only because it has a public company operating along most of their routes. if they didn't, things might be very different. and, i'm sure a couple of them do have unions. they certainly do in the oh so perfect london public transport services which this is trying to immetate

end of the road

fxotoole wrote: »

Can't understand how these unionised drivers expect sympathy from the public when they continually throw their toys out of the pram any time their respective companies try to implement change.

Maybe there was a time when unions were needed, but these days they only ever get in the way of progress.

no they don't. they are very much needed. these changes are being brought in against the companies will. sympathy from the public which they have a good bit is helpful but won't make any difference at the end of it all.

end of the road

weldoninhio wrote: »

If it's tendered to include the unprofitable routes, like the govt are doing, then it would make no difference

it would. fares and subsidy would have to increase so the private company can make a proffit. if we want privatization/tendering then its our duty to ensure these companies make a proffit for their shareholders. or, we can leave things as they are as were not getting anything with this tendering.

end of the road

thee glitz wrote: »

What is unprofitable to one may not be to all. I do believe in subsidies where necessary, within reason. How can the unions credibly fight the privatisation of something they don't own... maybe they could set up their own bus company and bid for some routes. I understand why they left the talks with management - their only argument against privatisation must be 'because we don't like it'.

there are plenty of reasons to be against it. what is unproffitable to one isn't to another is complete nonsense. its either proffitable or its not, and the subsidized routes bus eireann and dublin bus run are unproffitable and always will be as they only exist for socially necessary reasons.

Well_H0ly_God

Another week of this?!

Tell me - who exactly are paying these peoples salaries?

Us - the taxpayers!

So who do they choose to hurt by having no service?

Us - the taxpayers!

People need to go to school, work, have responsibilities and this interruption that has affected a huge amount of Dublin people today over some petty crap particularly when the cretins involved are some of the highest paid bloody bus drivers in the world as is is downright disgusting! These people have a lot to answer for. I had to inform an elderly lady in her 80's that was waiting at the bus stop this morning that there were no buses. She had to walk with me from Christ Church to the Botanic Gardens as I held her Tesco bags.

I'd give these f*ckers an ultimatum...

"6am tomorrow lads or don't bother coming in on Sunday. You're sacked".

end of the road

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

They know that the private tender will threaten their over paid entitled culture.

Sooner we privitise the lot the better

yes, and we can pay hugely inflated fares and subsidy to private shareholders, or we could go one step further and implement de-regulation and have hardly any bus routes outside the proffitable ones

Stheno

Well_H0ly_God wrote: »

Another week of this?!

Tell me - who exactly are paying these peoples salaries?

Us - the taxpayers!

So who do they choose to hurt by having no service?

Us - the taxpayers!

People need to go to school, work, have responsibilities and this interruption that has affected a huge amount of Dublin people today over some petty crap particularly when the cretins involved are some of the highest paid bloody bus drivers in the world as is is downright disgusting! These people have a lot to answer for. I had to inform an elderly lady in her 80's that was waiting at the bus stop this morning that there were no buses. She had to walk with me from Christ Church to the Botanic Gardens as I held her Tesco bags.

I'd give these f*ckers an ultimatum...

"6am tomorrow lads or don't bother coming in on Sunday. You're sacked".

What do you mean another week?

Well_H0ly_God

end of the road wrote: »

yes, and we can pay hugely inflated fares and subsidy to private shareholders, or we could go one step further and implement de-regulation and have hardly any bus routes outside the proffitable ones

Yes, because throwing money down the toilet is always a good idea.

BoJack Horseman

end of the road wrote: »

yes, and we can pay hugely inflated fares and subsidy to private shareholders, or we could go one step further and implement de-regulation and have hardly any bus routes outside the proffitable ones

Hugely inflated fares for shareholders.
Or
Hugely inflated fares to pay for the union co-op that is CIE.

Pick your poison.

pmasterson95

Well_H0ly_God wrote: »

Another week of this?!

Tell me - who exactly are paying these peoples salaries?

Us - the taxpayers!

So who do they choose to hurt by having no service?

Us - the taxpayers!

People need to go to school, work, have responsibilities and this interruption that has affected a huge amount of Dublin people today over some petty crap particularly when the cretins involved are some of the highest paid bloody bus drivers in the world as is is downright disgusting! These people have a lot to answer for. I had to inform an elderly lady in her 80's that was waiting at the bus stop this morning that there were no buses. She had to walk with me from Christ Church to the Botanic Gardens as I held her Tesco bags.

I'd give these f*ckers an ultimatum...

"6am tomorrow lads or don't bother coming in on Sunday. You're sacked".

I agree but just to point out its all of Ireland being ****ed over by them not just Dubs.

end of the road

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Hope Dublin bus runs the unions into the ground with this one, they are so out of touch it's unbelievable.

There will never be progression in anything related to public transport while there are unions involved.

your right. we won't be able to remove transport workers rights while unions are involved. people like you who want workers to have no rights are the reason unions are needed. why would dublin bus want to run the unions into the ground? its in dublin busses interests to ensure this tendering doesn't go ahead. infact its in all our interests as there is nothing to be offered as the NTA is deciding absolutely everything to be offered.

end of the road

fxotoole wrote: »

Examples?

If I'm not mistaken Tfl in London do a pretty job by bundling profitable and unprofitable routes together and putting those bundles out to tender

not really. it costs a huge amount compared to when it was in the hands of london transport, and problems and issues with working conditions seem to be a major problem. looks a success on the surface but go deeper and its not so rosey

Well_H0ly_God

end of the road wrote: »

your right. we won't be able to remove transport workers rights while unions are involved. people like you who want workers to have no rights are the reason unions are needed. why would dublin bus want to run the unions into the ground? its in dublin busses interests to ensure this tendering doesn't go ahead. infact its in all our interests as there is nothing to be offered as the NTA is deciding absolutely everything to be offered.

Transport workers rights?!

You're living on the moon just like the rest of those people.

We're talking about some of the highest paid bus drivers on planet Earth here! So many young people on the dole lines would love the opportunity to make that kind of money driving a bus around. I say sack the overpaid scum and ask the unemployed if they fancy a job.

Forgotten password 99

Bus ****!!!!!!!

end of the road

vienne86 wrote: »

It's the wrong people who will suffer with this dispute.

And what's this about train services being disrupted this weekend due to maintenance.....did they have to choose this weekend?

yes . these works were planned well in advance. a long time before a strike was known about. i'd imagine if they could cancel they would, it would probably cost more if they canceled now.

hynesie08

Well_H0ly_God wrote: »

I had to inform an elderly lady in her 80's that was waiting at the bus stop this morning that there were no buses. She had to walk with me from Christ Church to the Botanic Gardens as I held her Tesco bags.

How did she get into town?

pmasterson95

end of the road wrote: »

your right. we won't be able to remove transport workers rights while unions are involved. people like you who want workers to have no rights are the reason unions are needed. why would dublin bus want to run the unions into the ground? its in dublin busses interests to ensure this tendering doesn't go ahead. infact its in all our interests as there is nothing to be offered as the NTA is deciding absolutely everything to be offered.

Well personally it would have been in my best interests if they actually did their ****ing job and saved me €60+ on taxis but hey they do nothing and expect support.

JupiterKid

As there is no bus I'm about to walk into town which isn't really that far from where I live in the inner suburbs. The Luas is still running, right? I could use the Luas to get me part of the way home.

end of the road

Specialun wrote: »

Spot the CIE worker

he's not a CIE worker.

Stheno

JupiterKid wrote: »

As there is no bus I'm about to walk into town which isn't really that far from where I live in the inner suburbs. The Luas is still running, right? I could use the Luas to get me part of the way home.

Yeah the luas is running as normal

end of the road

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

When I look at the likes of the 59 or the 111 which are up for tender on that list, it's a joke that they're still in existence. Half the time they are empty and when they do have people on it, the core demographic that uses them are those who would not have to pay: read OAPS etc.

So these routes make no actual profit and are often ghost buses.

Those who use Dublin Bus every day and year on year have had to put up with price increases are bascially subsidising loss making routes, why should we? They shouldn't even be up for tender, they should of been abolished ages ago.

Routes up for tender:http://cdn.thejournal.ie/media/2013/12/routes.jpg

hence the routes being called "socially necessary routes" . you would still be paying the same if they were abolished as the subsidy would be decreased

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Apparently Irish Rail are carrying out works this weekend as well. If Carlsberg did timing...

yes, its unfortunate timing, but its not irish rails fault. those works would be planned well in advance of any knowledge of a strike. it may infact cost more if they canceled rather then go ahead with the works.

end of the road

VinLieger wrote: »

Bring on privatisation, an end to unions being able to bring the country to a standstill and introducing a bus service that is efficient and works instead of the bureaucratic, union interests first mess we currently have

privatization won't bring any of that. there will still be unions and strikes. the bus service will still work the same but at greater cost to everyone, and the bureaucratic stuff you believe exists has all ready transferred to the NTA.

end of the road

frankoreagan wrote: »

If DB's service was anyway decent I'd be inclined to support staff striking re the privatisation. But its woeful, and has been for the past 2 decades that I've been commuting via bus. Time to break up their monopoly in this city and try and implement a decent service.

Love the argument someone (probably a DB employee) made a few posts back that was basically "Sure the other company might be just as bad as Dublin Bus, so no point changing things"

Its that attitude that typifies why DB's stranglehold must be broken.

breaking up dublin busses socially necessary monopoly will lead to smaller more costly monoplies that mean no guarantee of an all out strike. dublin bus has no stranglehold, just a socially necessary one size fits all service meaning economies of scale and lesser cost.

end of the road

VinLieger wrote: »

So you support keeping the horrifically inefficient and unreliable services of DB the way they are?

the routes that are unreliable are unreliable due to lack of enforcement of the rules of the road, not enough bus priority, and more. the bus service can't be any more efficient after that. bus goes from a to b and back

Well_H0ly_God

end of the road wrote: »

breaking up dublin busses socially necessary monopoly will lead to smaller more costly monoplies that mean no guarantee of an all out strike. dublin bus has no stranglehold, just a socially necessary one size fits all service meaning economies of scale and lesser cost.

Economies of scale?

We're not discussing tearing up earth to lay competitive pipeline infrastructure. We're talking about putting vehicles on the road ffs.

And it is most definitely NOT a necessary monopoly. What exactly is stopping competition in transport services? What possible reason is there to outlaw it? Oh that's right - protectionism.

end of the road

Bambi wrote: »

past 15 years my arse, the NTA was formed to drag the state companies kicking and screaming out of the 1980s and that's whats driven the improvements

actually it was formed to have 1 regulator for all public transport

VinLieger

end of the road wrote: »

privatization won't bring any of that. there will still be unions and strikes. the bus service will still work the same but at greater cost to everyone, and the bureaucratic stuff you believe exists has all ready transferred to the NTA.

So what then? we don't do anything and continue with the ridiculous beuracracy that is CIE, the overpaid rude and not entitled bus drivers, the intransigent unions who always want more and refuse any innovation or progress all leading to the useless and disgusting behemoth of a bus service that is dublin bus that is not in any way for for purpose

end of the road

LorMal wrote: »

The Government should pull the plug on them. Open the whole market - no subsidy.

so no public transport then for the majority of people. grand so. we can put the money into IW instead for example

LorMal wrote: »

Let them survive on what they can earn like the rest of us.

yeah. shur tis terrible having to subsidize things that are socially necessary and exist for the greater good. if you can't earn anything or survive then screw you. you can't afford health care or education, not a problem. sounds like a fantastic country

LorMal wrote: »

Lads, it 2015 not 1972 - get working or **** off.

or, stop working until this nonsense is dropped and we can get back to the NTA implementing the bus service that is needed using public money and a public company. the way these workers are being treated having to go out on strike because the NTA won't talk is like as if it was 1972. the fact its 2015 means nothing

end of the road

VinLieger wrote: »

Same thing applies to the current system where DB operates virtually as a monopoly so there is zero incentive to increase efficiency or service value as there is no viable competition to take the business away from them

but were not going to get competition either way. it will be 1 operator on your route and you will like it. that will be the case for i suspect the vast majority of people. if we had multiple operators running all routes you would have a point, but most routes aren't viable enough, and where they are there are multiple operators all ready. the bus service can't get any more efficient until more bus priority and more enforcement of traffic laws happens.

end of the road

weldoninhio wrote: »

This strike has nothing to do with their employers. That's what makes it an unlawful strike, and that is how DB and BE can take the unions to court over the money they are losing.

who said its illegal. bus eireann and dublin bus only believe it is, it may turn out not to be

BoJack Horseman

We all know CIE can win any tender.

What with their trim overheads & consistent service.

They have nothing to worry about.

VinLieger

end of the road wrote: »

but were not going to get competition either way. it will be 1 operator on your route and you will like it. that will be the case for i suspect the vast majority of people. if we had multiple operators running all routes you would have a point, but most routes aren't viable enough, and where they are there are multiple operators all ready. the bus service can't get any more efficient until more bus priority and more enforcement of traffic laws happens.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result, the current setup is not working and never will, either we scrap it and privatise or scrap it and start a new public bus operator completely separate to DB, the only problem is the unions are going to oppose both cus it means change which they ALWAYS refuse to cooperate with without a nice big carrot which starts the problem all over again

flas

If anything this strike just goes to show how ridiculous this country really is, urban sprawl and a severe lack of infastructure is the elephant in the room here, but this will not be addressed as usual!