Bus strike

end of the road

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

No compromise with these communist dinosaurs sack the lot of them,how dare they use the good people of this city as human shields in their war against progress

what progress. there is no progress. what grounds are you going to sack these people on. saying they should be sacked on boards isn't a legitimate reason i should imagine

end of the road

Aitana Loose Attire wrote: »

I've no time for unions.
Siptu cost me and 300 of my colleagues our jobs when they wanted more and refused to believe the company's financial books.

or, maybe they were telling the truth and the company decided to pull the plug rather then talk. i don't know, i wasn't there. but its a possibility

end of the road

Captain Chaos wrote: »

It was only at the very end of BR's days when they got their act together and started to make money. It was more successful privatised under LMS, LNER and GW before BR came into existence.

BR lost money hand over fist until the early '80s.

BR while not perfect, was constantly undermined by government after government. competition from road transport didn't help either, all though if BR wasn't undermined maybe things would have been better for them. we'l never know. note that the privatized railway is mostly funded by the government, its the government that have made it the way it is currently along with other factors that caused the growth in passengers. freight is a success though.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

Agreed, and to be perfectly honest I don't care whether it's a private or public bus company.
I started off commuting by bus to work and back. I lasted 6 weeks before getting into my car and driving.
Waiting 45 minutes plus for a bus, which didn't actually run anywhere near my office anyway. A fair walk at 10.30pm through a rough as hell part of the city, alone. Standing at the bus stop in the pissing rain, looking at the driver parked up in his warm bus, because he wouldn't open the door to let me on a minute ahead of departure time.

The difference cost wise between driving/parking and the bus is €1 a day for me. The difference in terms of comfort and time, is immeasurable. It takes me 25 minutes to get to work in my car, as opposed to anything from 45 to 70 minutes on the bus.

Just one example of the "disgrace" of one person vehicles commuting to the city.

the driver isn't allowed to let people on before near departure time. if they do fair play to them but one is not entitled for the driver to do it

end of the road

jank wrote: »

Glad to see the government taking legal action over lost revenue. The company is in serious financial trouble but the union thinks the government will keep the tap going. Lol, not a chance. Public Transport is one of the last things in this country that needs deregulating. They think its the 1980's still with some of the carry on and demands.

The quicker privatisation comes in the better.

not at all. privatization isn't going to deliver anything bar increased subsidy higher fares and proffits for shareholders. nothing for the customer as it will be the NTA deciding everything, and it will still be 1 operator on your route. de-regulation of public transport would be even worse as it would lead to most services being withdrawn, and it would eventually lead back to the monopoly, but it will be a private monopoly. no thanks

end of the road

cloud493 wrote: »

I'm not for against privatisation in theory, except that dublin bus is absolutely appalling as it is, and where I lived in the UK, all public transport was privatised, and it was much much better, and there was a relatively small area/town, not a capital city.

and in a lot of places in the UK, privatization caused either a complete loss of service, or a severe downgrade of service.

weldoninhio

end of the road wrote: »

yes . these works were planned well in advance. a long time before a strike was known about. i'd imagine if they could cancel they would, it would probably cost more if they canceled now.

They've rearranged the train works to the Sunday/Monday so that it doesn't crossover on the bus strike.

end of the road

Well_H0ly_God wrote: »

Another week of this?!

another week of what? the last strike was 3 years ago

Well_H0ly_God wrote: »

the cretins involved are some of the highest paid bloody bus drivers in the world

they are bus drivers not cretins. they are not one of the highist payed bus drivers in the world.

Well_H0ly_God wrote: »

I'd give these f*ckers an ultimatum...
"6am tomorrow lads or don't bother coming in on Sunday. You're sacked".

no you wouldn't. hopefully what they would do is not bother coming in and a day later put the depots in lockdown. or maybe they wouldn't even have to, as dublin bus are currently struggling to find drivers. good luck trying to replace them.

end of the road

Well_H0ly_God wrote: »

Yes, because throwing money down the toilet is always a good idea.

so your happy for there to be little public transport then? thats okay

end of the road

Well_H0ly_God wrote: »

Transport workers rights?!

You're living on the moon just like the rest of those people.

We're talking about some of the highest paid bus drivers on planet Earth here! So many young people on the dole lines would love the opportunity to make that kind of money driving a bus around. I say sack the overpaid scum and ask the unemployed if they fancy a job.

the usual bunch of old rabel about the plenty of unemployed. clearly they wouldn't love to drive around a bus for the wages being payed as currently dublin bus are advertizing jobs and few if any are applying. but lets sack the non over payed drivers and have no bus service as clearly nobody wants the jobs.

weldoninhio

end of the road wrote: »

not at all. privatization isn't going to deliver anything. the NTA is deciding everything bar increased subsidy higher fares and proffits for shareholders. nothing for the customer as it will still be 1 operator on your route. de-regulation of public transport would be even worse as it would lead to most services being withdrawn, and it would eventually lead back to the monopoly, but it will be a private monopoly. no thanks

It will be 1 company, but if it doesn't have decent service etc, when the tender runs its course they'll be ditched for the next company. It would be in the private bus companies interests to provide a decent service.

As it stands, with no market competition, DB has no incentive to provide a decent service.

bilbot79

I think the actions of unions make perfect sense to the members but you just can't beat natural selection in business. All this talk about 'Get behind the drivers' is just an abject failure to recognise that unprofitable routes have to be cut out even if it means that 4 or 5 grannies will have to adapt their daily routines. The drivers put all the blame on the management but fail to recognise that you can't expect to sustain the unsustainable.

end of the road

Well_H0ly_God wrote: »

Economies of scale?

We're not discussing tearing up earth to lay competitive pipeline infrastructure. We're talking about putting vehicles on the road ffs.

And it is most definitely NOT a necessary monopoly. What exactly is stopping competition in transport services? What possible reason is there to outlaw it? Oh that's right - protectionism.

no, viability is whats stoping competition. most of the routes are loss making and only exist for social reasons. only 1 operator on these routes would be viable and nothing more. that and the NTA deciding absolutely everything and you have a tender with nothing to compete for

end of the road

VinLieger wrote: »

So what then? we don't do anything and continue with the ridiculous beuracracy that is CIE, the overpaid rude and not entitled bus drivers, the intransigent unions who always want more and refuse any innovation or progress all leading to the useless and disgusting behemoth of a bus service that is dublin bus that is not in any way for for purpose

none of that exists. the innovation comes from the NTA, and dublin bus is implementing it. this tendering has nothing to bring to the table.

end of the road

VinLieger wrote: »

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result, the current setup is not working and never will, either we scrap it and privatise or scrap it and start a new public bus operator completely separate to DB, the only problem is the unions are going to oppose both cus it means change which they ALWAYS refuse to cooperate with without a nice big carrot which starts the problem all over again

privatization isn't going to change any of that. if we simply privatized the services most would be withdrawn or cost more to run as we have a duty to pay enough so a private company can make a proffit. yes CIE is far from perfect, but better it then tendering or privatization where everything has all ready been decided by the NTA and which dublin bus is implementing

Streetwalker

I think unions are a vital part of any healthy democracy it's just a pity the ones in this country are so poor.

end of the road

weldoninhio wrote: »

They've rearranged the train works to the Sunday/Monday so that it doesn't crossover on the bus strike.

yes i know. but its easier to do that then to cancel it altogether

end of the road

weldoninhio wrote: »

It will be 1 company, but if it doesn't have decent service etc, when the tender runs its course they'll be ditched for the next company. It would be in the private bus companies interests to provide a decent service.

As it stands, with no market competition, DB has no incentive to provide a decent service.

but it won't be getting market competition. if the operators were told to decide everything in terms of the service provision then you would have a point. there is no guarantee that even if a company doesn't provide a good service that they won't get the contract the next time as maybe the tenderer is looking for something different to ourselves.

end of the road

bilbot79 wrote: »

I think the actions of unions make perfect sense to the members but you just can't beat natural selection in business. All this talk about 'Get behind the drivers' is just an abject failure to recognise that unprofitable routes have to be cut out even if it means that 4 or 5 grannies will have to adapt their daily routines. The drivers put all the blame on the management but fail to recognise that you can't expect to sustain the unsustainable.

your post shows you haven't a clue about how public transport works in this country. the loss making routes aren't simply routes taking 4 or 5 elderly people around. there are many routes which while they have full or near full busses are loss making or only break even.

VinLieger

end of the road wrote: »

your post shows you haven't a clue about how public transport works in this country. the loss making routes aren't simply routes taking 4 or 5 elderly people around. there are many routes which while they have full or near full busses are loss making or only break even.

And why is that i wonder? could it be due to the massive bureaucracy weighing down CIE and the 6th highest paid bus drivers in the world with entitlements some of us could only dream of?

end of the road

VinLieger wrote: »

And why is that i wonder? could it be due to the massive bureaucracy weighing down CIE and the 6th highest paid bus drivers in the world with entitlements some of us could only dream of?

no, it could be discounted fares to bring in custom, it could be free travel. our bus drivers aren't the 6th highist payed in the world. thats a lie. the bureaucracy is not from the companies. it might be from the parent CIE, but not the actual companies. the government and NTA will have bureaucracy as well. the entitlements they have they got through hard work and they deserve them. you could have those entitlements to, just apply for one of the driving jobs currently being advertized. but you won't

Jester252

Egginacup wrote: »

You don't know what you're talking about.
Take a look at Holland, Germany, Scandinavia. Travelling around those countries on public transport is a pleasure.
Gut the sh1t out of it and you'll be left with a crappy service that chooses which routes to operate and which to just abandon.

Have a quick look at Germany

Given that since Germany deregulated the bus market in 2012, 150 new bus lines have been established.
Also Deutsche Bahn is a private company along with 280 other railway companies in Germany.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Germany is doing better with a private public transport network than a government public transport network.

punisher5112

Jester252 wrote: »

Have a quick look at Germany

Given that since Germany deregulated the bus market in 2012, 150 new bus lines have been established.
Also Deutsche Bahn is a private company along with 280 other railway companies in Germany.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Germany is doing better with a private public transport network than a government public transport network.

Now for anyone that is getting a bit away with themselves....

Remember Ireland is small.
Ok

Germany and most other countries that are been used as examples are huge with enormous populations....


Ireland is so set on privatise anything and everything and when this does take over it will be a cut throat business as to who can undercut the other while safety and service goes out the window.

Too many friends of the government lined up for cushy jobs and tenders and also don't forget the tax breaks as the ones with the money are looked after the best.

Dick phelan

BE and DB provide such a crap service that i won't be supporting them, Other bus services are cheaper, run better and i find the drivers far nicer. I only use BE if i have no other choice.

Iwasfrozen

I used to commute, sometimes with a private bus company, sometimes with Bus Eireann and I have to say the private company was more regular, had nicer staff, more comfortable coaches, cost 40% less for a return ticket and the journey lasted a full hour less.

Bus Eireann can go to hell.

Dr.MickKiller

There should probably be a separate thread about privatisation as this is not essentially what the strike is about. Once DB/BE drivers get a guarantee that drivers transferring to the company that wins the tender uphold their terms and conditions, and pensions, there is no issue.

Kermit.de.frog

Haven't they got that? So what's their problem then?

Hope the union gets savaged for costs in the courts.

Dr Strange

The strike continues today until midnight as well it seems:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0502/698265-bus-eireann-dublin-bus/

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Dublin-Bus-response-to-Ministers-statement-/

I thought it was planned for Monday but Monday looks like normal bank holiday/Sunday timetable will operate.

Annasopra

thee glitz wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0430/697799-bus-strike/

The private sector shows how bus services can and should be run. I'm lucky to be able to commute using
a private operator, which costs costs €35 a week. The same is €53 with Bus Éireann. I know lots of bus drivers
who'd love to work for DB or BÉ. I'm delighted legal action is being taken over this. How dare some union
hold public transport users to ransom.

So basically you arguing your friends working conditions are **** and now you want to make all bus drivers have **** working conditions.

timetogo

Preusse wrote: »

The strike continues today until midnight as well it seems:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0502/698265-bus-eireann-dublin-bus/

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Dublin-Bus-response-to-Ministers-statement-/

I thought it was planned for Monday but Monday looks like normal bank holiday/Sunday timetable will operate.

No, no point striking on a bank holiday. Most of them would be off anyway and that wouldn't disrupt their customers so much as a lot of us are off too.

LorMal

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

No way should the whole public transpoirt system be privatised without subsidies.It would result in the closure of a lot of routes that people depend on and would cause a lot of disruption to numerous individual lives.It would be a massive loss to people living in rural areas.

Frankly there should be a massive increase in the amount of public transport available in this country as the amount pof people driving to work one person in a car is a disgrace in this day and age.

That old chestnut is the reason we have such a poor transport service in this country. When we keep it in public sector hands it means jobs for life, no motivation to work hard, piss poor customer service.
I agree there are some areas that require subsidised transport - subsidise private operators to service them. That way, they have to provide a good service at a reasonable cost or lose the contract.
But that does not mean we have to put up with a closed shop, heavily unionised, inefficient, poorly managed and frankly unfriendly shower of wasters.

suicide_circus

Preusse wrote: »

The strike continues today until midnight as well it seems:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0502/698265-bus-eireann-dublin-bus/

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Dublin-Bus-response-to-Ministers-statement-/

I thought it was planned for Monday but Monday looks like normal bank holiday/Sunday timetable will operate.

Ah now you dont expect them to miss out in their bank holiday double time pay

LorMal

punisher5112 wrote: »

Now for anyone that is getting a bit away with themselves....

Remember Ireland is small.
Ok

Germany and most other countries that are been used as examples are huge with enormous populations....


Ireland is so set on privatise anything and everything and when this does take over it will be a cut throat business as to who can undercut the other while safety and service goes out the window.

Too many friends of the government lined up for cushy jobs and tenders and also don't forget the tax breaks as the ones with the money are looked after the best.

Ha ha ....'safety and service goes out the window'.....have you used public transport in this country?????

JRant

I think Trade Unions have an important role to play in our society.

They can protect pay/pensions and have been vital in H&S improvements.

The only issue i have with this dispute is that they are trying to dictate company policy. That is so far beyond their remit it's not even funny.

punisher5112

LorMal wrote: »

Ha ha ....'safety and service goes out the window'.....have you used public transport in this country?????

No what is it

microsim

end of the road wrote: »

no, it could be discounted fares to bring in custom, it could be free travel. our bus drivers aren't the 6th highist payed in the world. thats a lie. the bureaucracy is not from the companies. it might be from the parent CIE, but not the actual companies. the government and NTA will have bureaucracy as well. the entitlements they have they got through hard work and they deserve them. you could have those entitlements to, just apply for one of the driving jobs currently being advertized. but you won't

All of your posts in this thread read like endless drivel from a Union handbook. Give it a rest

Mesrine65

Streetwalker wrote: »

I think unions are a vital part of any healthy democracy it's just a pity the ones in this country are as incompetent, corrupt & self-serving as those in power.

FYP :eek:

gazzamc

This is a great way to get the public on their side, leaving people stranded in some areas and just making travelling difficult.. They do realise that this makes privitised public transport more appealing, at least in that environment they would be no holding the entire country to random... **** the lot of them.

degsie

DB and BE have just demonstrated why there should NOT be a monopoly in transport. Time for a change.

pmasterson95

punisher5112 wrote: »

No what is it

I guess the fact you dont know what public transport is explains the crap you were spewing.

pmasterson95

Nice to see on the news drivers making a family day out of it. Bringing the kids with them.

Iwasfrozen

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Nice to see on the news drivers making a family day out of it. Bringing the kids with them.

It's nice the news caught it so they can watch it back in future.

"Look kids, this is how daddy lost his job."

end of the road

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Haven't they got that? So what's their problem then?

Hope the union gets savaged for costs in the courts.

good for you. i hope they don't pay if they do. anyway. the problem is the government have proved they can't be trusted and therefore any guarantees are meaningless

end of the road

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

So basically you arguing your friends working conditions are **** and now you want to make all bus drivers have **** working conditions.

yes, thats their logic. the thing is though, for all the plenty of people who would supposibly love to work for bus eireann and dublin bus, few if anyone is applying for the jobs being advertized by dublin bus and they are struggling to get drivers

end of the road

LorMal wrote: »

That old chestnut is the reason we have such a poor transport service in this country. When we keep it in public sector hands it means jobs for life, no motivation to work hard, piss poor customer service.
I agree there are some areas that require subsidised transport - subsidise private operators to service them. That way, they have to provide a good service at a reasonable cost or lose the contract.
But that does not mean we have to put up with a closed shop, heavily unionised, inefficient, poorly managed and frankly unfriendly shower of wasters.

we don't have a closed shop, heavily unionised, inefficient, and frankly unfriendly shower of wasters. poorly managed, yes . no for subsidized public transport a public operator is the only show in town as it provides economies of scale and ensures busses can be transferred between routes when needed. were not going to get anything better with tendering. the NTA is deciding everything and the companies don't have to bring anything to the table apart from how much they can do it on the cheep. dublin bus on the other hand has delivered the majority of what is being asked of it, a couple of things remain to be implemented but they can't until more traffic enforcement and bus priority is delivered to ensure it works, and the safety of passengers.

Iwasfrozen

end of the road wrote: »

we don't have a closed shop, heavily unionised, inefficient, and frankly unfriendly shower of wasters. poorly managed, yes . no for subsidized public transport a public operator is the only show in town as it provides economies of scale and ensures busses can be transferred between routes when needed. were not going to get anything better with tendering. the NTA is deciding everything and the companies don't have to bring anything to the table apart from how much they can do it on the cheep. dublin bus on the other hand has delivered the majority of what is being asked of it, a couple of things remain to be implemented but they can't until more traffic enforcement and bus priority is delivered to ensure it works, and the safety of passengers.

Obviously not. Let's see how this new system works before we write it off.

end of the road

JRant wrote: »

I think Trade Unions have an important role to play in our society.

They can protect pay/pensions and have been vital in H&S improvements.

The only issue i have with this dispute is that they are trying to dictate company policy. That is so far beyond their remit it's not even funny.

they aren't dictating company policy though. the tendering nonsense is being pushed on the companies by the NTA.

Gatling

end of the road wrote: »

, few if anyone is applying for the jobs being advertized by dublin bus and they are struggling to get drivers

Probably down to several things
Higher aspersions.
Rather have a job where you have career choices and progression.

For someone who doesn't work for either you certainly take great interest in the operation of both companies.
Would you apply /ever applied

weldoninhio

end of the road wrote: »

good for you. i hope they don't pay if they do. anyway. the problem is the government have proved they can't be trusted and therefore any guarantees are meaningless

So that's the Irish and Indonesian governments that can't be trusted, along with the Egyptians. What utopia should be be basing our society on??

end of the road

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Obviously not. Let's see how this new system works before we write it off.

i don't think it will be anything more then deals for cronies so i will write it off.