Motor Tax Issue - Travelling to Europe

DESPERADO21CZ

Hello guys. I have quite a specific question here and I'd like to know if someone could answer it for me.

I have a 1994 Mercedes-Benz E220 Estate. I bought the car as a project and it's almost finished (In fact it passed NCT today until April 2016).

I have declared the car to be off the road immediately as I bought it to avoid paying Motor Tax.

I am planning on leaving the country for 2 months (Going to Europe). Over there Irish Motor Tax is absolutely useless + I live 10KM from the harbor.

Can I travel out of the country without it? I'd definitely like to avoid paying extra €300 if possible. Thanks

Asmooh

Not legally no

CiniO

Have the car towed to the port and you are sorted.

DESPERADO21CZ

CiniO wrote: »

Have the car towed to the port and you are sorted.

I'm not all that worried about the drive there (As I said it is 10KM) but the people from Garda at the port. I used to work there actually and seen people come through with no NCT, Tax and even Insurance and they were let through but I don't want to chance it.

CiniO

DESPERADO21CZ wrote: »

I'm not all that worried about the drive there (As I said it is 10KM) but the people from Garda at the port. I used to work there actually and seen people come through with no NCT, Tax and even Insurance and they were let through but I don't want to chance it.

But port is not a public place - once you are past the gates, you don't need your motortax, so no need to worry about Garda.
All I'd worry is to get to the port, as this is going to be serious offence if you drive your car to the port while it's declared off the road.
Surely if it's only 10km, you could get a cheap towing service.

jhegarty

If you are on Irish plates then you still need Irish tax when driving in the uk.

They often do cars north of the border for it.

blackbird 49

Take a chance and hope for the best��

blackbird 49

blackbird 49 wrote: »

Take a chance and hope for the best��

Or get a friend to tow you with a rope to the port

browniepoints

Yeah in my travels across EU with Irish cars all the cops in those regions the first question from French German Spainish cops was where is the Irish road tax disk we dont want you Irish not paying road tax in Europe HA HA

Yes you cant drive Irish car in ROI without tax or risk the stop by Garda who might confiscate the car .
SO you either pay the three months tax or you get tow vehicle ambulance similar to take car to port.

Normal tow costs are €160 and so many euros per kilometer should be less than €200 to tow it to port .
You might get two company to it cheaper particularity if it is on quite day that suits them .
The Rosslare harbour as example has big car park to plonk a car there a few days before departure.
If you got boat ticket bought ask them is it ok of car sits there a few days give them some sort of yarn should be no issue and put the photo copy the ticket in the window so that new port security knows its not abandoned crap
Dublin Harbours you might need to pay storage or parking fees per days so might be less interesting .

I normally leave larger engine Irish cars in France and when i go back to Ireland have small engine Irish car taxxed etc waiting there for me .
Its not the cost the shipping the car its all the grief to tax bigger car for maybe 7 month visit in Ireland .
Jed

browniepoints

DESPERADO21CZ wrote: »

I'm not all that worried about the drive there (As I said it is 10KM) but the people from Garda at the port. I used to work there actually and seen people come through with no NCT, Tax and even Insurance and they were let through but I don't want to chance it.

Sounds like the Garda are happy to see the back of old bangers to go to offend the English or French .

Unless you pissed the local Garda forces in that harbor cant see why they would pick on you .
Its the ten kilometers to the harbor there can be Garda check point and all the fines that go with no road tax that would make it expensive ten kilometers .

To my knowledge the Garda have no power to apply road traffic act on Harbor land as its private property and is special zone where only the Harbour police can ask Garda to act for them .
Once on public Road the Garda rule OK

Happened to mate of mine on the docks harbour working truck bumped his parked car into river liffy and the normal rules for insurance didnt apply tough the truck did not have to pay the costs

Jed

DESPERADO21CZ

CiniO wrote: »

Have the car towed to the port and you are sorted.

Well, friend does have a car trailer and he lives near by, didn't quite think of that.

jhegarty wrote: »

If you are on Irish plates then you still need Irish tax when driving in the uk.

They often do cars north of the border for it.

I am on Irish plates but I'm leaving Rosslare and going straight to France.

browniepoints wrote: »

Sounds like the Garda are happy to see the back of old bangers to go to offend the English or French .

Unless you pissed the local Garda forces in that harbor cant see why they would pick on you .
Its the ten kilometers to the harbor there can be Garda check point and all the fines that go with no road tax that would make it expensive ten kilometers .

Jed

Well I do know 4 of the officers that work there. I used to work at one of the freight booths so pissing them off shouldn't be an issue

TrailerBob

Your car does have to be fully compliant in its country of origin while driving in the EU... I've done about 15,000 miles on the continent and never seen a checkpoint or been checked... But there's always the risk...

CiniO

TrailerBob wrote: »

Your car does have to be fully compliant in its country of origin while driving in the EU... I've done about 15,000 miles on the continent and never seen a checkpoint or been checked... But there's always the risk...

That's untrue.
Nearly all over Europe (and much further) it's Vienna Convention from 1968 which regulates laws for vehicles in international traffic.
Car from abroad, must be registered in country of origin, fulfil technical requirements from that country. Driver must have Registration Cert with him. Car must be insured and have valid roadworthiness test.
However Irish tax required by Irish Finance Act, and is only required if car is used in public places and roads in Ireland.

DESPERADO21CZ

TrailerBob wrote: »

Your car does have to be fully compliant in its country of origin while driving in the EU... I've done about 15,000 miles on the continent and never seen a checkpoint or been checked... But there's always the risk...

Whilst I understand that, Motor Tax in the disc form is purely and Irish thing (maybe British too, I don't know). In Czech for example there are discs you buy that stick on the top of the windshield. You can buy one for 10 days, few months and a year. Same goes to Austria. I think Germany, France and other places use simple tolls.

Personally I covered 65,000 miles in Ireland and still no checkpoint

Infracted

Remove the expired disc and the holder and chance it. The French dont even have motor tax like us so the police arent going to check.

CiniO

Infracted wrote: »

Remove the expired disc and the holder and chance it. The French dont even have motor tax like us so the police arent going to check.

But even if they checked, there is nothing illegal about driving Irish car in France without valid Irish motortax.

DESPERADO21CZ

Ok, so I will have to agree with a few people here and I think I'm going to do it as mentioned before.

I'll get my friend to tow me to the port and make him wait until I board the ship in case someone does ask, I'll have some proof

Like I said, I'm going straight to France and from there Irish Motor Tax is basically useless. I'll have insurance and I have NCT so I think I'm good to go.

Thanks for all the replies and help

Preset No.3

jhegarty wrote: »

If you are on Irish plates then you still need Irish tax when driving in the uk.

They often do cars north of the border for it.

Can you tell me exactly how another jurisdiction can do a car with no tax? I'd love to hear the story about this one! What database would UK police be able to search for proof of tax?


Bearing in mind that UK car tax is all done online and tax discs have been done away with.

edburg

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Can you tell me exactly how another jurisdiction can do a car with no tax? I'd love to hear the story about this one! What database would UK police be able to search for proof of tax?


Bearing in mind that UK car tax is all done online and tax discs have been done away with.

Foreign police have contact numbers for garda and ask for info. What they can say/do I don't know.

Was under impression that a car needed to legal in its country of origin to be used in Eu. But as above who knows what can be done foreign forces. Especially likes of france and Italy that has 3 or 4 different forces on the go.

But just another thing I haven't seen mentioned would insurance cover, God forbid it but if you have accident and they find no tax on car that could be there out.

CiniO

edburg wrote: »

Was under impression that a car needed to legal in its country of origin to be used in Eu.

The problem with that is there isn't such thing as "legal in its country of origin". It's too general to be put into any country's law.
Most countries require a foreign vehicle to be insured and tested in country of origin, and require driver to have registration cert with them. Also vehicle must fulfil technical requirements from country of origin, so f.e. if it's a car from country where warning triangle and first aid kit is obligatory equipment of vehicle, then vehicle must be equipped with it.

But just another thing I haven't seen mentioned would insurance cover, God forbid it but if you have accident and they find no tax on car that could be there out.

Insurance has nothing to do with tax. They can not refuse to pay based on grounds that car isn't taxed.

dingus12

So why do the psni hand out an on the spot fine for having no road tax on a roi register'd car if caught with out a valid road tax disc in NI?

166man

Was in France, Italy and Switzerland for 6 days a few weeks ago. Did 3500km in the car and while the windscreen was upto date we never got checked or stopped once.

Personally for 10km I'd drive it off the boat and away you go! I know it's not strictly correct, but cmon lads it's 10km....

snaps

No road tax needed outside of ireland. Once you are in a foreign land you'll already be paying their counties road tax, as most countries have it on the fuel and no yearly fee for a lovely paper disc, like in ireland!

Tax on fuel is the fairer way, no avoidance then. Don't think it can be done in ireland now as the fuel has already been too heavily taxed.

Even the uk has a better motor tax system/rate than ireland.

Preset No.3

edburg wrote: »

Foreign police have contact numbers for garda and ask for info. What they can say/do I don't know.

Was under impression that a car needed to legal in its country of origin to be used in Eu. But as above who knows what can be done foreign forces. Especially likes of france and Italy that has 3 or 4 different forces on the go.


But just another thing I haven't seen mentioned would insurance cover, God forbid it but if you have accident and they find no tax on car that could be there out.

Sweet Jebus! Are you making this up as you go along?? What PC plod somewhere on the continent is going to go to the bother of contacting Irish Garda about the lack of tax on a car. Even typing this it's a ridiculous statement. Nothing to do with the language barrier of course!!!

bcmf

166man wrote:

Was in France, Italy and Switzerland for 6 days a few weeks ago. Did 3500km in the car and while the windscreen was upto date we never got checked or stopped once.

166man wrote:

Personally for 10km I'd drive it off the boat and away you go! I know it's not strictly correct, but cmon lads it's 10km....

I have come across checkpoints in France on more then one occasion. I have also come across checkpoints on the run in to Rosslare harbour on at least two occasions. It could be a very expensive 10km to the port.

stefanovich

Arranging to get it towed and all hassle involved just to save a few hundred. I'd just pay the tax, you're only going for a couple of months.

edburg

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Sweet Jebus! Are you making this up as you go along?? What PC plod somewhere on the continent is going to go to the bother of contacting Irish Garda about the lack of tax on a car. Even typing this it's a ridiculous statement. Nothing to do with the language barrier of course!!!

Didn't say they would, just saying they have contact numbers to enquire about things whether car tax, drivers license, criminal records etc etc.

You asked what database they would have, with a phone call they have use of Irish database.

source

Just a technical issue private property can be a public place under the Road Traffic Acts.

“public place” means any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;

A port would come under that definition, and as such you would be expected to comply with all Road Traffic legislation until you're on the ferry. In other words it doesn't have to be a public road to be counted as a public place.

In practice, unless you come across a checkpoint in the 10km from your house to the port you should be okay.

As for driving abroad, I've driven Irish reg'd cars in the UK with no tax and not had a problem.

browniepoints

source wrote: »

Just a technical issue private property can be a public place under the Road Traffic Acts.



A port would come under that definition, and as such you would be expected to comply with all Road Traffic legislation until you're on the ferry. In other words it doesn't have to be a public road to be counted as a public place.

In practice, unless you come across a checkpoint in the 10km from your house to the port you should be okay.

As for driving abroad, I've driven Irish reg'd cars in the UK with no tax and not had a problem.

I dont think that logic applies to ports as they are special entities technically not part of Ireland a interface for the foreign entry .
The difference is Quay or Port .The quay has public road and is the normal road trafic act
The port has a gate and from long time in history was always its own laws and own region and often its own police force as in port police and airport police . A truck reverses over your car in the working port tough rules of the road dont apply for insurance .
If the dockers where i worked in the docks didn't like you your car got lifted with fork lift onto container or pushed into the Liffy depending how much
they didnt like you

I drive Europe a lot and hit many check points mostly get waived on .If they ask its only insurance they look for .
They can get ratty if the car is overloaded too much stuff on the roof or too big trailers or suspension way down from too much kilos or smell of funny smoke comes from car and they check animals passport for vaccines . Swiss police also on the first check point check all the lights function good and tyres are good and make you sit in the police car so they have your face and voice prints on their central data computer camera . Swiss police dont do irish car tax .In Switzerland foreigners need to pay the swiss road tax if they wish to use the motor ways a sort of swiss toll road system .It is very hard to negotiate Switzerland especially in winter without to use the motorways .best to buy this motor way road tax disk on entry there it last 3 months costs like €150 euros which for Switzerland and swiss is cheap as chips but for us eeeekk.However those roads are kept open nearly all year around where side roads can be blocked with real deep snow sometimes for days .

Jed

TrailerBob

browniepoints wrote: »

It is very hard to negotiate Switzerland especially in winter without to use the motorways .best to buy this motor way road tax disk on entry there it last 3 months costs like €150 euros which for Switzerland and swiss is cheap as chips but for us eeeekk.However those roads are kept open nearly all year around where side roads can be blocked with real deep snow sometimes for days

Jed

Where are you getting the motorway tax figure from??? Somebody is getting wires crossed. The vignette for Switzerland in 2014 was €42, which is what I paid at the border... That's an annual pass. No option for anything less. And that was the only thing that the customs/police were interested in, despite having an Irish vehicle, loaded up with stuff... No questions about animals, drugs, anything... And we definitely didn't have to sit in a cop car... either scaremongering... Or were you just unlucky?

Back to the OP, sensible to get it towed, and best of luck on the continent. It does appear logical that other authorities would have no interest in our motor tax system as they don't have one.

browniepoints

TrailerBob wrote: »

Where are you getting the motorway tax figure from??? Somebody is getting wires crossed. The vignette for Switzerland in 2014 was €42, which is what I paid at the border... That's an annual pass. No option for anything less. And that was the only thing that the customs/police were interested in, despite having an Irish vehicle, loaded up with stuff... No questions about animals, drugs, anything... And we definitely didn't have to sit in a cop car... either scaremongering... Or were you just unlucky?

.

It was few years back I couldn't remember the cost the road tax for Switzerland .
The cops there dont seem to like old 1993 diesel Toyota with two roof boxxes on the roof
Also the ten tons weight in boot mostly 5 months food supply tinned food bought cheap in France wasnt normal
Several dried meat pig legs from Spain and back seats full of fruit juices .Then there was the heavy tools of my trade which were in big metal box on the tow hook and my push bike in top of it all . All that heavy weight was great for grip on the snow but back end car of was way down .
Also the wanderly wagon effect didn't agree with swiss cops ideas of what cars are for.

I entered via a relatively unknown obscure border crossing at midnight in mega snow storm so this triggered their whats up antenna .
The same border crossing was closed for months after that as snow was too deep to clear in France side so I was last car in for the entire winter

Earlier that morning time the same local cops had completely taken my Spanish mates car apart using the same border crossing as he was best part of a day ahead of me . He had big Spanish breed Mastene dog that stops wolfs attacking the sheep so they checked all details on the dog .
The dog was sold to swiss farmer and he was delivering it to the owner as my mates family in Spanish mountains breeds them .These are big dogs nearly as big as saint Bernard's.


I think that border crossing got only locals using it so auslanders using that border crossing sent the system antenna orbital .

My Spanish mate and me put on snow chains and went for it before snow would block the pass for the winter and drove 24 hours through serous snow storms to get and just made it

Anyway I did'nt pay the swiss car tax thing it as I didn't know squat about it.
So when cops stopped me they went on about some sort of vinette thing I should have .
The border crossing hut was closed at midnight so there was no security or stuff to buy there

Then they went to to town searched car checked all the lights tires and made me sit in thier car .

My Switz mate later explained that way they got your mug shot and voice pattern and is standard procedure for first time contacts with Auslanders who intend to stay in Switz for work and come through obscure border crossing but is less likely for tourists who will pass through Switzerland on motor ways .

Later when winter finished I often crosses into Switzerland later in Geneva city multipliable times each day no border crossing there but i mostly used bike to get there I would park in France for free and push cycle there as parking costs in genvea are stupid money often more than €4 an hour

Jed