Does Sex Matter?

AlphaRed

I was just watching the debate on the late late show and the root of the issue was missing.

We are being asked to redefine our relationships. As we know the question being asked has nothing to do with equality. The question on the day of the referendum has nothing to do with equality but it does have to do with sex. Here is the question:

Marriage may be contracted in accordance with law by two persons without distinction

What that means is, if we vote yes, sex doesn't matter. Well does sex matter? I say it does. If I may use nature as a reference, we as race of human beings are divided into male and female. To say that doesn't matter and should be ignored is wrong. If it didn't matter life wouldn't be made that way.

There was a woman debating on the yes side and she argued because she didn't feel comfortable with her sexuality because of that we now need to redefine OUR relationships, this is just non sense. If she doesn't feel comfortable with herself that something she needs to work on. The rest of the nation shouldn't have to change because some people don't feel comfortable with themselves. Yes that is an important issue but changing the constitution is not the solution.

Please don't be mislead by the yes side. Read the question, sex matters

TwoShedsJackson

Are you going down the 'gay couples can't have children so they shouldn't be allowed to marry' route again?

What about the infertile couples, people who are married but choose not to have children, married pensioners - does a lack of procreative sex invalidate their marriages?

If it doesn't can you please explain why not, and why that distinction could not be applied to a gay couple?

Tigger

its gonna pass and we are gonna live in a country where people eat meat on Friday where they drink all day good Friday and where men sodomize their husbands while their children are happily asleep upstairs

and it makes me happy how much that will piss some people off

TwoShedsJackson

'Something's not worth doing unless somebody, somewhere, would much rather you weren't doing it' - Terry Pratchett.

Giblet

AlphaRed wrote: »

Please don't be mislead by the yes side. Read the question, sex matters

To you...

El_Duderino 09

Giblet wrote: »

To you...

Other people's sex matters to the OP

MrWalsh

Bit overly interested in other people's sex lives?

Numerous posts across multiple threads spouting the same homophobic nonsense.

Stheno

Gender would be better

Pat Mustard

AlphaRed wrote: »

What that means is, if we vote yes, sex doesn't matter. Well does sex matter? I say it does. If I may use nature as a reference, we as race of human beings are divided into male and female. To say that doesn't matter and should be ignored is wrong. If it didn't matter life wouldn't be made that way.

So, you say that sex matters as to whether people should be allowed to marry each other.

You mentioned nature. You mentioned the male and female sexes. These soundbites do not amount to an argument.

Do you have a reasoned argument?

beeno67

AlphaRed wrote: »

I was just watching the debate on the late late show and the root of the issue was missing.

We are being asked to redefine our relationships. As we know the question being asked has nothing to do with equality. The question on the day of the referendum has nothing to do with equality but it does have to do with sex. Here is the question:

Marriage may be contracted in accordance with law by two persons without distinction

What that means is, if we vote yes, sex doesn't matter. Well does sex matter? I say it does. If I may use nature as a reference, we as race of human beings are divided into male and female. To say that doesn't matter and should be ignored is wrong. If it didn't matter life wouldn't be made that way.

There was a woman debating on the yes side and she argued because she didn't feel comfortable with her sexuality because of that we now need to redefine OUR relationships, this is just non sense. If she doesn't feel comfortable with herself that something she needs to work on. The rest of the nation shouldn't have to change because some people don't feel comfortable with themselves. Yes that is an important issue but changing the constitution is not the solution.

Please don't be mislead by the yes side. Read the question, sex matters

What do you mean sex matters?
Do you mean sex as in gender?
Do you mean people having sex matter more than people not having sex or is it the amount of sex people are having?
Perhaps you mean the type of sex people are having e.g. oral sex, anal sex etc?

Perhaps if you clarified what you mean by "sex matters" we might have some vague idea what you are talking about.

endacl

I eagerly await your next thread, op.

AlphaRed

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Are you going down the 'gay couples can't have children so they shouldn't be allowed to marry' route again?

What about the infertile couples, people who are married but choose not to have children, married pensioners - does a lack of procreative sex invalidate their marriages?

If it doesn't can you please explain why not, and why that distinction could not be applied to a gay couple?

Sex as in biology male/female. The below sentence takes sex (male/female) out of marriage
Marriage may be contracted in accordance with law by two persons without distinction

Your argument about a lack of procreative sex in others marriages does not automatically validate same sex marriage

Lucena

AlphaRed wrote: »

We are being asked to redefine our relationships.

Does this mean my wife will have to get a sex change and become my husband? Who sodomises who in that case?

Yes, I'm talking After Hours-type nonsense, difficult to respond otherwise to such statements.

When 'marriage for all' was introduced recently in France where I live, it extended rights to gay couples regarding inheritance, being recognised as parents etc. but most importantly gay people get the same treatment as everyone else. I didn't have to redefine my relationship.

Do you know any gay people or gay couples, AlphaRed? I do, and guess what, they're exactly the same as non-gay people, barring sexual preference. They just want to do the same stuff as everyone else.

Lucena

AlphaRed wrote: »

Your argument about a lack of procreative sex in others marriages does not automatically validate same sex marriage

Nope. But hopefully the democratic right the Irish people have to vote in the referendum will.

AlphaRed

Lucena wrote: »

Do you know any gay people or gay couples, AlphaRed? I do, and guess what, they're exactly the same as non-gay people, barring sexual preference. They just want to do the same stuff as everyone else.

I've known plenty of gay people and been friends with gay people and drank with them in gay pubs in Dublin.

The yes side thinks the no side has some problem with gay people, this is not the case. The proposed change in our constitution and changes we've seen across the western world is an attack on our culture. Not an attack on religion but an attack on the foundations of our societies.

We will not accept something we feel is fundamentally flawed.

MrWalsh

AlphaRed wrote: »

The proposed change in our constitution and changes we've seen across the western world is an attack on our culture. Not an attack on religion but an attack on the foundations of our societies.

How does it attack your culture? How does it attack the foundations of society?

You are not making any kind of reasoned point, you are simply spouting unfounded statements.

Lucena

AlphaRed wrote: »

The proposed change in our constitution and changes we've seen across the western world is an attack on our culture. Not an attack on religion but an attack on the foundations of our societies.

We will not accept something we feel is fundamentally flawed.

What is being attacked exactly? I don't get it.

If you mean that society, and its values, will change, well that is true. But then of course, society's values, and the way we live, always change.

martingriff

AlphaRed wrote: »

I was just watching the debate on the late late show and the root of the issue was missing.

We are being asked to redefine our relationships. As we know the question being asked has nothing to do with equality. The question on the day of the referendum has nothing to do with equality but it does have to do with sex. Here is the question:

Marriage may be contracted in accordance with law by two persons without distinction

What that means is, if we vote yes, sex doesn't matter. Well does sex matter? I say it does. If I may use nature as a reference, we as race of human beings are divided into male and female. To say that doesn't matter and should be ignored is wrong. If it didn't matter life wouldn't be made that way.

There was a woman debating on the yes side and she argued because she didn't feel comfortable with her sexuality because of that we now need to redefine OUR relationships, this is just non sense. If she doesn't feel comfortable with herself that something she needs to work on. The rest of the nation shouldn't have to change because some people don't feel comfortable with themselves. Yes that is an important issue but changing the constitution is not the solution.

Please don't be mislead by the yes side. Read the question, sex matters

No the question is should 2 loving ADULTS be allowed to marry

AlphaRed

MrWalsh wrote: »

How does it attack your culture? How does it attack the foundations of society?

You are not making any kind of reasoned point, you are simply spouting unfounded statements.

The thing is, you can't reason with closed minded people

Lucena wrote: »

What is being attacked exactly? I don't get it.

If you mean that society, and its values, will change, well that is true. But then of course, society's values, and the way we live, always change.

This "change" is called social engineering. It's not a natural evolution and so it's is not acceptable.

martingriff wrote: »

No the question is should 2 loving ADULTS be allowed to marry

Again you don't understand the change that is being proposed in the referendum.

endacl

AlphaRed wrote: »

The thing is, you can't reason with closed minded people



This "change" is called social engineering. It's not a natural evolution and so it's is not acceptable.



Again you don't understand the change that is being proposed in the referendum.

(A) Projecting much?
(B) Social engineering is what we do. As a social species. I don't know where or how to begin explaining that to you. Not that you'd accept an explanation.
(C) See point (A).

eviltwin

AlphaRed wrote: »

The thing is, you can't reason with closed minded people



This "change" is called social engineering. It's not a natural evolution and so it's is not acceptable.



Again you don't understand the change that is being proposed in the referendum.

Answer the questions put to you and people might start taking you seriously.

galljga1

AlphaRed wrote: »

The thing is, you can't reason with closed minded people

Absolutely correct. That is why I am not going to try.

MrWalsh

AlphaRed wrote: »

The thing is, you can't reason with closed minded people



This "change" is called social engineering. It's not a natural evolution and so it's is not acceptable.



Again you don't understand the change that is being proposed in the referendum.

Umm, unable to make a reasoned point again?

Zaph

AlphaRed wrote: »

Well does sex matter?

Of course it does, it's an important part of a healthy relationship. However there are couples who can't have sex due to disability or other circumstances, but it doesn't mean they love each other any less.

But here's another question - does it matter to me what sexual activities two people get up to in the privacy of their own home? Not in the slightest, and nor should it matter to any of us, other than to say that they should be free to enjoy whatever relationship they want. So why does this matter so much to you OP?

222233

AlphaRed wrote: »

I was just watching the debate on the late late show and the root of the issue was missing.


The rest of the nation shouldn't have to change because some people don't feel comfortable with themselves.
Please don't be mislead by the yes side. Read the question, sex matters

No one is asking you or the rest of the nation to change anything.... it will not affect YOU as a person when two gay people decide they would like to spend the rest of their lives together as a married couple.

AlphaRed

Zaph wrote: »

Of course it does, it's an important part of a healthy relationship. However there are couples who can't have sex due to disability or other circumstances, but it doesn't mean they love each other any less.

But here's another question - does it matter to me what sexual activities two people get up to in the privacy of their own home? Not in the slightest, and nor should it matter to any of us, other than to say that they should be free to enjoy whatever relationship they want. So why does this matter so much to you OP?

You missed the point. Sex as in being male or female

222233 wrote: »

No one is asking you or the rest of the nation to change anything.... it will not affect YOU as a person when two gay people decide they would like to spend the rest of their lives together as a married couple.

It does affect the rest of us. The propsed change to the constitution changes the definition of marriage, that affects everyone.

pmasterson95 wrote: »

I think if AlphaRed got some sex it may calm him down.

MrWalsh wrote: »

Bum sex?

I've reported both of you for abusive posts

bee06

OP what does gender (that's what I assume you meant in your post) have to do with marriage? Marriage is a contract entered into so both parties can avail of certain protections, rights and benefits. We don't prevent people of the same sex entering into other legal contracts so why should we prevent people of the same sex entering into the contract of marriage?

222233

you said: "The rest of the nation shouldn't have to change because some people don't feel comfortable with themselves. "...

No one is asking you to change, it won't affect you directly as a person unless you are gay.
I don't see why you are so bothered by other peoples sexual preferences unless it is impacting on you personally, its not really any of your business.

pmasterson95

AlphaRed wrote: »

You missed the point. Sex as in being male or female





I've reported both of you for abusive posts

Jaysus you can clearly ramble on about your own hilariously narrow views but one comment gets ya all sensitive? The world must be a terrifying place for you.

Zaph

AlphaRed wrote: »

You missed the point. Sex as in being male or female

So you mean gender then? Well then in answer to that question, no, it doesn't matter what gender the person you fall in love with is as long as you're both happy. Why should a person's gender prevent them from marrying the person they love?

MrWalsh

AlphaRed wrote: »

You missed the point. Sex as in being male or female



It does affect the rest of us. The propsed change to the constitution changes the definition of marriage, that affects everyone.

Ah you mean gender!!

It has no impact on anyone except those who want to enter into a same sex marriage.

Care to explain exactly how two male or female strangers getting married would have any impact on your life?

Abusive, dont make me laugh when you are spouting hate speech!!

AlphaRed

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Jaysus you can clearly ramble on about your own hilariously narrow views but one comment gets ya all sensitive? The world must be a terrifying place for you.

Just stick to the topic without being too overtly abusive

Zaph wrote: »

So you mean gender then? Well then in answer to that question, no, it doesn't matter what gender the person you fall in love with is as long as you're both happy. Why should a person's gender prevent them from marrying the person they love?

MrWalsh wrote: »

Ah you mean gender!!

It has no impact on anyone except those who want to enter into a same sex marriage.

Care to explain exactly how two male or female strangers getting married would have any impact on your life?

Abusive, dont make me laugh when you are spouting hate speech!!

Are you two serious? Sex and Gender are NOT the same thing

MrStuffins

AlphaRed wrote: »

I've known plenty of gay people and been friends with gay people and drank with them in gay pubs in Dublin.

The yes side thinks the no side has some problem with gay people, this is not the case. The proposed change in our constitution and changes we've seen across the western world is an attack on our culture. Not an attack on religion but an attack on the foundations of our societies.

We will not accept something we feel is fundamentally flawed.

You're going to have to

222233

AlphaRed wrote: »

Are you two serious? Sex and Gender are NOT the same thing

Is your issue with sexual intercourse then, Im very confused....

Zaph

AlphaRed wrote: »

Are you two serious? Sex and Gender are NOT the same thing

Go on so, enlighten the unenlightened and explain to us exactly what it is you mean then. Because if it's not sex in the sexual activity sense of the word, and it's not sex in the gender sense of the word, I really have no idea what you're waffling on about.

MrWalsh

AlphaRed wrote: »

Are you two serious? Sex and Gender are NOT the same thing

What in the blazes are you talking about?

Is same sex marriage an issue for you because of gender - ie, the two people getting married are of the same gender.

Or because of sex, ie, the two people getting married are having sex that you consider offensive?

pmasterson95

Is this to do with what genitals they have or how they use the genitals? It seems to be some sort of nowhere inbetween???

Satori Rae

I am just going to leave this here it's such a good article I suggest Alpha take a read of it.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/marriage-equality-referendum-no-campaign-does-not-value-each-child-327323.html

galljga1

MrWalsh wrote: »

What in the blazes are you talking about?

Is same sex marriage an issue for you because of gender - ie, the two people getting married are of the same gender.

Or because of sex, ie, the two people getting married are having sex that you consider offensive?

Same sex marriages will be a sexed up version of opposite sex marriages and perhaps he is jealous.

AlphaRed

222233 wrote: »

Is your issue with sexual intercourse then, Im very confused....

Zaph wrote: »

Go on so, enlighten the unenlightened and explain to us exactly what it is you mean then. Because if it's not sex in the sexual activity sense of the word, and it's not sex in the gender sense of the word, I really have no idea what you're waffling on about.

MrWalsh wrote: »

What in the blazes are you talking about?

Is same sex marriage an issue for you because of gender - ie, the two people getting married are of the same gender.

Or because of sex, ie, the two people getting married are having sex that you consider offensive?

If you don't understand the difference between sex and gender and if you can't comprehend my opening post or what we are actually voting on then I can't help you.

Maybe we should have a referendum on whether we should test people's IQ before they are allowed to vote.

Satori Rae wrote: »

I am just going to leave this here it's such a good article I suggest Alpha take a read of it.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/marriage-equality-referendum-no-campaign-does-not-value-each-child-327323.html

More yes vote bullsh1t

222233

AlphaRed wrote: »

If you don't understand the difference between sex and gender and if you can't comprehend my opening post or what we are actually voting on then I can't help you.

Maybe we should have a referendum on whether we should test people's IQ before they are allowed to vote.

No need to be offensive, you weren't very clear with your post

I'm not sure you quite understand what you are voting for yourself...

We are voting to change the constitution to allow two gay people to legally get married in a few short words

MrStuffins

AlphaRed wrote: »

If you don't understand the difference between sex and gender and if you can't comprehend my opening post or what we are actually voting on then I can't help you.

Hi AlphaRed.

I'd like to ask you what it is that YOU mean when you say "sex". It seems like you mean gender by what you've been saying so could you clear this up? Thanks.

TwoShedsJackson

AlphaRed wrote: »

Your argument about a lack of procreative sex in others marriages does not automatically validate same sex marriage

Does it invalidate the non-procreative marriages though?

AlphaRed wrote:

I've known plenty of gay people and been friends with gay people and drank with them in gay pubs in Dublin.

How do you think your alleged legions of gay friends feel about the fact that you consider them not worthy of the same rights as straight people?

bee06

What's the point of all your threads if you won't actually argue your point?

The no side already agree with you.
The yes side will never agree with you.

The undecideds are never going to come over to the no side if you can't be bothered making a reasoned argument. And "if you don't know I'm not going to tell you" cannot be considered a reasoned argument.

galljga1

AlphaRed wrote: »

If you don't understand the difference between sex and gender and if you can't comprehend my opening post or what we are actually voting on then I can't help you.

Maybe we should have a referendum on whether we should test people's IQ before they are allowed to vote.



More yes vote bullsh1t

Well, your opening post is nonsense but it has been since superseded.
I would tend to agree with your IQ proposal but do not assume it would be to your advantage.
Your final response shows the open-mindedness you find so lacking in some of the yes arguments.

TheChizler

AlphaRed wrote: »

It does affect the rest of us. The propsed change to the constitution changes the definition of marriage, that affects everyone.

Technically I think it clarifies, not changes, but whatever.

You say it affects everyone, however many people think it will only affect people who want to get same sex married.

You have made a statement; it affects everyone. What is the reasoning behind this statement?

A lot of anti posts are just unqualified statements, followed by ???, therefore vote no. Please be different.

AlphaRed

222233 wrote: »

We are voting to change the constitution to allow two gay people to legally get married in a few short words

That is YOUR interpretation. The Yes side (or some of them) says it's about equality. I say it's about SEX and reducing/redefining marriage. A straight relationship is not the same as a gay relationship so they are not equal.

MrStuffins wrote: »

Hi AlphaRed.

I'd like to ask you what it is that YOU mean when you say "sex". It seems like you mean gender by what you've been saying so could you clear this up? Thanks.

The biological differences between men and women and how they affect our thoughts and behaviour and in the case of marriage the meaning (thoughts and behaviour) the different sexes bring to marriage and how that differs from a same sex relationship

galljga1

bee06 wrote: »

What's the point of all your threads if you won't actually argue your point?

The no side already agree with you.
The yes side will never agree with you.

The undecideds are never going to come over to the no side if you can't be bothered making a reasoned argument. And "if you don't know I'm not going to tell you" cannot be considered a reasoned argument.

Don't assume that. I am waiting for a valid argument. I have yet to hear one but you never know.

Satori Rae

AlphaRed wrote: »

If you don't understand the difference between sex and gender and if you can't comprehend my opening post or what we are actually voting on then I can't help you.

Maybe we should have a referendum on whether we should test people's IQ before they are allowed to vote.



More yes vote bullsh1t

You seem very angry at the yes side, for someone who has hung out with gay people and drank in gay bars.

Why do you seem so opposed to them being able to live happily?. It doesn't effect any of us who are straight in the slightest. I think gay couples are just as equal as us, I do not see how they are not?

We do not have to redefine our roles in society as singles or as couples, we don't have to live in a uncomfortable situation this whole referendum is for marriage only to allow gay people to marry .

It has (if you read the article and look into the referendum) nothing to do with kids , changing who we are personally gender or sex wise or anything else that imposes on the way we already live.

Stark

AlphaRed wrote: »

What that means is, if we vote yes, sex doesn't matter. Well does sex matter? I say it does. If I may use nature as a reference, we as race of human beings are divided into male and female. To say that doesn't matter and should be ignored is wrong. If it didn't matter life wouldn't be made that way.

Indeed, it's totes simples right? http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html

bee06

galljga1 wrote: »

Don't assume that. I am waiting for a valid argument. I have yet to hear one but you never know.

Good point. It would be nice if there was a reasoned debate on the subject.