Sacred Cows (people no one dares criticise)

Dirty Dingus McGee

Chloris wrote: »

Finally, somebody actually gives me some information which has the potential to sway my opinion! I'll have a look when it's not 3am.nice one

Last years accounts are in the link below

http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/annual_reports/GAA007_GAA_annual_report_2014_financial_section.pdf

When the Sun Hits

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Yes I do. Donal was vilified on After Hours, but After Hours is nowhere near representative of the amount of people who felt touched by Donal's message.

<snip>

You pulled me up earlier suggesting there was no possible way I could know something, and you've talked about the complexity of depression, yet you're able to state categorically that Donal Walsh could have no experience of depression simply because of his age? How could you possibly know what experience he had of depression?

It's too late for me to get into a massive debate, and you always drag me into defending falsities and making long paragraphs with, what is (and no offence intended), merely whataboutery on your part a lot of the time. Genuinely, not trying to be a dick when I say that. :P I'll probably be unable to prevent myself from responding with something longer tomorrow when I'm more awake.

You said - "many more people were inspired by Donal than those people who were offended by his opinions". You cannot prove that to be true or not, nobody can. It's a pointless statement. Whether or not he was vilified on this site and how representative it is does not have any relevance to that.

Also, he never mentioned having any issues with depression, which I would have thought he may have considering the topic. He was so open regarding his other illnesses I would assume he would have at least alluded to any mental health issues he had. I don't recall he did at any point. But you are right. It is an assumption. I cannot say he did or did not for certain. The way he talked about the subject makes me think he didn't.

Finally, regardless of experience, someone at that age should not be put in that position by a national broadcaster. Which was my main point, I thought it was totally wrong and exploitative. You may not be aware, but in TV guides and other forms of media at the time it was described as him discussing depression, not just young people. So, whether this was unintentional or not it became a subject about depression and was seen as one.

Man, I'm out for tonight. A spiel of a post, as per usual when I talk to you. And I was trying to keep it brief. :P

DEFTLEFTHAND

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

And plenty of GAA fans have been called bigots/shinners etc for maybe only liking Gaelic Games rather than soccer, rugby etc.

There are gobsh1tes supporting every sport in the world.

And the GAA to their credit have always accepted all creeds and classes. For instance it was never a problem for Protestant people born into Unionist families in Ulster or elsewhere on the island to take up the games and join their local club. Belive it or not both Wille Fraser and Billy Wright played under age football for their respective clubs in the province.

An organisation which has always strived to be inclusive imo, A modern day eg is my local small town club where we have many kids with Baltic origins playing at underage currently.

flas

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

And the GAA to their credit have always accepted all creeds and classes. For instance it was never a problem for Protestant people born into Unionist families in Ulster or elsewhere on the island to take up the games and join their local club. Belive it or not both Wille Fraser and Billy Wright played under age football for their respective clubs in the province.

An organisation which has always strived to be inclusive imo, A modern day eg is my local small town club where we have many kids with Baltic origins playing at underage currently.

But then again the gaa will always harp on about this in a oh look at us,we are so inclusive way when it should be just the norm like it is in every sport!

That is not a pot shot at you or your club, I don't know either, just saying this conversation has come up before personally and that is what it usually ends up as!

PowerToWait

Wang King wrote: »

You most likely missed the bit where she told us that she is a wheelchair user and knows more about the subject than most of us can ever dream of?

No didn't miss that thanks. Wheelchair user gets a pass to make sweeping generalisation about a hugely diverse subsection of society because why?

If I came on saying 'I'm black / gay / traveller / immigrant / whatever, and they're all pricks and I should know cos I'm one of 'em', that would be preposterous. But a chair user can talk that way about people with disabilities?

Wasn't it yourself who made the first post ' some of them can be right cnuts'?

Why is this even surprising? A disability doesn't make a saint out of someone. The same way it doesn't automatically confer 'prick' status on them either as matta harri has implied. Maybe the disability doesn't actually define who they are. Crazy but just maybe.

Tarzana2

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Michelle Smith De Brun.

There was a story about a taxi-driver at the time throwing out a passenger for saying "Well, maybe she's not innocent" and got a load of praise for doing it.

Fuq me, idiocy hurts.

She hasn't been a sacred cow since 1998ish.

Sunnyisland

Danial o donnell.

Jesus Wept

catallus wrote: »

Why would anyone want to criticise BoD?

Because of his smug annoying punchable face and voice.

Jesus Wept

shaymus27 wrote: »

Gráinne Seoige

a geebag. I'll be here all night if I go through them al

Tarzana2

bnt wrote: »

The man has had seriously rough times in his life, including a troubled childhood and time in jail as a teenager, and is still clearly fragile today.

A lot of the trouble was caused by himself, there doesn't seem to have been any issues with his parents and the upbringing they provided.

DEFTLEFTHAND

The Kennedy Family were worshiped without question in Ireland back in the day. The Dad Joe Kennedy's activities in the 20s and 30s are rarely spoken about, his bootlegging operation and Hollywood film Studio business which he used as a base to extort and strong arm other studios to give over money to an up and coming Sam Giancana in the 'Chicago Outfit' (The Italian Mafia in Chicago which Al Capone ruled up untill 1929).

Any good political buff will notice the name Giancana come up again in 1960, when Joe is trying to get his boy into office.

Thespoofer

Cold War Kid wrote: »

"Before I even start"... what?
Anyway, there isn't sufficient evidence to just decide the McCanns murdered their daughter; this is fact, my opinion doesn't even come into it.
I'm not saying people can't *suspect* them (I can see where people are coming from) but suspicion is not enough to make something fact.
Yes the Robert Murat case was disgusting - no arguments from me there.
I agree with you about the class angle and I think it was appalling of them to leave the children without a babysitter - I am not saying the McCanns are angels.
I am just saying though that they're not sacred cows - they may be defended a lot but they are also slated a lot. A sacred cow is someone or something that is virtually never criticised.

What about the x2 British Police dogs , Eddie & Keela ?

One eyed Jack

When the Sun Hits wrote: »

It's too late for me to get into a massive debate, and you always drag me into defending falsities and making long paragraphs with, what is (and no offence intended), merely whataboutery on your part a lot of the time. Genuinely, not trying to be a dick when I say that. :P I'll probably be unable to prevent myself from responding with something longer tomorrow when I'm more awake.

...


Finally, regardless of experience, someone at that age should not be put in that position by a national broadcaster. Which was my main point, I thought it was totally wrong and exploitative. You may not be aware, but in TV guides and other forms of media at the time it was described as him discussing depression, not just young people. So, whether this was unintentional or not it became a subject about depression and was seen as one.

Man, I'm out for tonight. A spiel of a post, as per usual when I talk to you. And I was trying to keep it brief. :P

I'll keep it brief then - Donal Walsh was by no means protected from vilification. He was as entitled as you or I to express his opinion in the national media and get his message out there using whatever means possible. He did so and I admire him for that. Some people don't, and some people blame the media for exploiting him.

Sam Kade

dirtyden wrote: »

Who did they rob?

Let me see the players come to mind first, they don't get paid and the fat cats in the gaa making money off them. Then the overpriced tickets for the drones that pay for them.

Sam Kade

Cold War Kid wrote: »

What's with the Obama mentions? I've seen people actually call him a nazi, not simply compare him to one but deem him one. He's so little of a sacred cow that people who don't even know what they're criticising, criticise him. He is one of the most fashionable public figures to criticise

Yeah, his insight into theoretical physics is just... talking "through his arse". Quite.

I was wondering how long it would take before a hawking worshiper came along.

LadyAthame

MistyCheese wrote: »

Don't start on Trent or we'll send FaceKicker after you!

Trent is a gob****e. ...was a gob****e...facekicker too

Sam Kade

dirtyden wrote: »

No it goes back into facilities in clubs around the country and into games development.

Some of it

Sam Kade

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The Kennedy Family were worshiped without question in Ireland back in the day. The Dad Joe Kennedy's activities in the 20s and 30s are rarely spoken about, his bootlegging operation and Hollywood film Studio business which he used as a base to extort and strong arm other studios to give over money to an up and coming Sam Giancana in the 'Chicago Outfit' (The Italian Mafia in Chicago which Al Capone ruled up untill 1929).

Any good political buff will notice the name Giancana come up again in 1960, when Joe is trying to get his boy into office.

The son JFK was no angel either if only the holy people of Ireland knew what a womaniser he was, they'd be shocked :eek:

Thargor

When the Sun Hits wrote: »

He surely did. Was called out for it on here though, if I recall. Nothing gets past us boardsies.

Sad case of exploitation really. Sad in many other ways, obviously. He did a lot of great work raising money and that was what should have been focused on. Totally RTE's fault IMO, he was too young to fully understand the effects of depression, nevermind be given the medium to talk about it to thousands of people. Someone involved in production should have stepped up and prevented it.

I honestly don't understand what he's supposed to have done from the 20 posts about it in this thread?

martyos121

Paul O'Connell, mostly out of pure fear.

Muff Richardson

Elaine O Hara - she was pretty sick and twisted also

jooksavage

Majella O'Donnell

Field east

martyos121 wrote: »

Paul O'Connell, mostly out of pure fear.

About the only name proffered so far that is entitled to be treated as a sacred cow. His honesty, endeavour, commitment, application, lack of ego, etc, while putting his health - both short and long term - on the line for Ireland, Munster and the Lions ,is beyond reproach. I am always of the opinion that with him, you always get what you see. Never met the man but there is something about him. For that matter have met with none of the rest either

Menas

Muff Richardson wrote: »

Elaine O Hara - she was pretty sick and twisted also

That is a very unfair thing to say about someone who was murdered. She was many things, but not sick and twisted.

padd b1975

Greenpeace.

Lingua Franca

Thargor wrote: »

I honestly don't understand what he's supposed to have done from the 20 posts about it in this thread?

I went looking it up too. Seems he was doing good work in raising awareness and funds regarding cancer, then he went into an unexpected and very uninformed and patronising diatribe about it being unfair that kids were committing suicide when he was going to die and had no choice.

It's at the bottom of this page: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/donal-walsh-i-wanted-to-live-to-play-for-munster-to-travel-the-whole-world-29194810.html

There is a big problem with suicide amongst the young and this berating "How very selfish! How very dare you!" uninformed scolding does absolutely nothing to help.

martyos121

Field east wrote: »

About the only name proffered so far that is entitled to be treated as a sacred cow. His honesty, endeavour, commitment, application, lack of ego, etc, while putting his health - both short and long term - on the line for Ireland, Munster and the Lions ,is beyond reproach. I am always of the opinion that with him, you always get what you see. Never met the man but there is something about him. For that matter have met with none of the rest either

Not arguing that by any means, but I just never heard a bad word said about him. He is an absolute hero as far as I'm concerned.

Cienciano

Muhammad Ali.
He was big into racial segregation, he treated Joe Frazier like a piece of shíte after he was the only one that would help Ali during his exile.

jooksavage

Bressie attains temporary Sonic-the-Hedgehog-esque invulnerability for a few days after talking about his mental health issues on the national airwaves (even if the main purpose of the interview was to promote his latest terrible show/album)

DEFTLEFTHAND

Cienciano wrote: »

Muhammad Ali.
He was big into racial segregation, he treated Joe Frazier like a piece of shíte after he was the only one that would help Ali during his exile.

He would refer to him as the gorilla. If you ever read the Bumpy Johnson book you'll learn that there was a thing between the light mixed guys like Ali and the black as the ace of Spades guys like Frazier.

When the Sun Hits

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I'll keep it brief then - Donal Walsh was by no means protected from vilification. He was as entitled as you or I to express his opinion in the national media and get his message out there using whatever means possible. He did so and I admire him for that. Some people don't, and some people blame the media for exploiting him.

I don't remember any vile or abusive posts or comments directed at him, so I'm not sure where you're getting this "vilification" from? Perhaps nasty posts were deleted by mods, I don't know. But strongly disagreeing with him is not vilification. You are right in that he is entitled to his opinion, and with that he let his opinions open for criticism. It was certainly taboo to criticise his beliefs publicly, in fact, it was generally greeted with a pretty defensive and aggressive response. Hence him being mentioned in this "sacred cow" thread.

Freedom in general is something I'm an advocate for, annoyingly and possibly unfeasibly so at times. I would never deny his right to express his opinion, as damaging I think they may have been. With freedom comes responsibility however, and RTE failed in theirs by allowing a young terminally ill boy talk about a sensitive and controversial issue on a form of media that reached the entire country and beyond.

We probably won't see eye to eye on it, tbh. Just a difference in opinions I guess. Arguing over whether it had a positive effect on more people than it had a negative effect is pointless. We don't know, and have no way of ever knowing.

When the Sun Hits

Ignore my first message of the double post. My edit/delete function is not working properly.

R P McMurphy

Hugh Heffner

Say Your Number

Katie Taylor - Ok a few idiots may mock her for the way she talks, but apart from that she's pretty close to being one.

Grandeeod

Kurt cobain.

steddyeddy

Muslim women covered head to toe and the husband walking uncovered beside her. Sorry but that is unacceptable in this day and age.

jooksavage

steddyeddy wrote: »

Muslim women covered head to toe and the husband walking uncovered beside her. Sorry but that is unacceptable in this day and age.

This is something regularly and openly criticised.

conorhal

Lingua Franca wrote: »

I went looking it up too. Seems he was doing good work in raising awareness and funds regarding cancer, then he went into an unexpected and very uninformed and patronising diatribe about it being unfair that kids were committing suicide when he was going to die and had no choice.

It's at the bottom of this page: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/donal-walsh-i-wanted-to-live-to-play-for-munster-to-travel-the-whole-world-29194810.html

There is a big problem with suicide amongst the young and this berating "How very selfish! How very dare you!" uninformed scolding does absolutely nothing to help.

Neither though does the near martyr like sanctification of suicides, since this is a thread about sacred cows I might as well add them to the list. And it is a selfish act, there's no denying that. A friend of mine went through a very dark period and managed to come out the other side, he admitted to me that he had at one point contemplated suicide, and only the thought of how beyond devastated his mother would have been by such an act prevented him from acting on it.

Kidchameleon

steddyeddy wrote: »

Muslim women covered head to toe and the husband walking uncovered beside her. Sorry but that is unacceptable in this day and age.

Most Muslim women dressed like that choose to dress like that.

ToddyDoody

Princess Diana. (the dead grandmother of the royal baby girl born yesterday)

The whole royal premise thing seems to me like a brain washing exercise so throw in controversy etc.... yes its a story with tragic consequences but again, based on something I don't really get.

steddyeddy

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Most Muslim women dressed like that choose to dress like that.

Yea I think it's brainwashing to be honest. I think a lot choose to do it because they feel they have to do it.

When the Sun Hits

Grandeeod wrote: »

Kurt cobain.

I'd see him criticised often enough, online and in real life, for both his behavior and "lack of talent" as a performer. He's acclaimed as a musician by many, but he still has a lot of critics and it's not exactly seen as ridiculous to disparage him or Nirvana. He's also mocked in various comedy shows, Family Guy being just one example. Hardly a sacred cow.

foxy farmer

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yea I think it's brainwashing to be honest. I think a lot choose to do it because they feel they have to do it.

Like all religions.

When the Sun Hits

steddyeddy wrote: »

Muslim women covered head to toe and the husband walking uncovered beside her. Sorry but that is unacceptable in this day and age.

With Islam, I find that any criticism (however valid and reasonable) is a bit of a "sacred cow". You have to be very careful with what you say and how you phrase it, or you may be accused of being islamophobic or something along those lines. Even now as I type, I'm thinking is it okay to say this? I wouldn't be like that with other religions.

Pumpkinseeds

Wang King wrote: »

You most likely missed the bit where she told us that she is a wheelchair user and knows more about the subject than most of us can ever dream of?

You're buying into the disability s h i t e. I have disabilities and I can be a total bint at times, nothing to do with my disabilities, but a good get out of jail card to be played when it suits.

Lingua Franca

conorhal wrote: »

Neither though does the near martyr like sanctification of suicides, since this is a thread about sacred cows I might as well add them to the list. And it is a selfish act, there's no denying that. A friend of mine went through a very dark period and managed to come out the other side, he admitted to me that he had at one point contemplated suicide, and only the thought of how beyond devastated his mother would have been by such an act prevented him from acting on it.

Well, if anecdotes are evidence enough for you:

I went through it too and my sick brain managed to convince itself that my continued existence was ruining the lives of all those I loved and it would be the kindest thing to do for them, to take myself out of their lives and stop causing them worry and pain. I was convinced that the sadness they would feel at my loss would be outweighed by not having me making them miserable and ruining their lives.

So yeah, there is denying that.

And I can tell you as someone who has actually been in the darkness, this compulsion of those who haven't been there to sneer to "so selfish" doesn't deter people who already feel worthless. Quite the opposite.

Amalgam

Mattress Mick.

Wang King

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

You're buying into the disability s h i t e. I have disabilities and I can be a total bint at times, nothing to do with my disabilities, but a good get out of jail card to be played when it suits.

And unable to read posts in context too it seems

Pumpkinseeds

Wang King wrote: »

And unable to read posts in context too it seems

Nope, no problem with that, just a low bullsh*t tolerance.

jooksavage

When the Sun Hits wrote: »

With Islam, I find that any criticism (however valid and reasonable) is a bit of a "sacred cow". You have to be very careful with what you say and how you phrase it, or you may be accused of being islamophobic or something along those lines. Even now as I type, I'm thinking is it okay to say this? I wouldn't be like that with other religions.

I don't know. I don't see it as something the media haven't challenged. In fact some tabloid rags have turned their obsession with Islam into a selling point.