Sacred Cows (people no one dares criticise)

the_monkey

catallus wrote: »

Why would anyone want to criticise BoD?

cos he "plays" a bullshít unskilled "sport" practised by steroid pumped fat moronic idiots ??

Chloris

blackcard wrote:

This thread is about sacred cows. The Gaa are constantly criticised which is the way it should be. But the positive far outweighs the negative I only have to see the all the kids pucking around a ball at half time during a match to see the enjoyment it brings

Are they constantly criticised? Good. From what I've seen of the clubs in my local area, there's a serious lack of investment in equipment, facilities and maintenance. If a child's family can't buy them the gear, they won't be able to play properly with the rubbish equipment the club provides, or they won't be able to play at all if there are too many kids at training that day.

That's brilliant allocation of their abundance of finances. In fact, let's ban the underprivileged from visiting farms too lest they learn the ways of rural life and begin to become self sufficient.

the evasion_kid wrote:

Ed sheeran ever since the Xmas toy show,he's probably smoking crack rock and having orgies with playboy bunnies behind it all

Speaking of untouchable, poncey singer-songwriters, I read that John Mayer brings groupies back to his hotel room and beats off onto them as they just lie there, then he leaves. Lol.

LadyAthame

Paul Mc Cartney.

Dwarf.Shortage

the_monkey wrote: »

cos he "plays" a bullshít unskilled "sport" practised by steroid pumped fat moronic idiots ??

And what sport have you played at the highest level?

LadyAthame

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

And what sport have you played at the highest level?

Tonsil Hockey.

Cold War Kid

ShoulderChip wrote: »

What the hell has stephen fry done wrong?

Being supercilious, sneery. His oft quoted thing about taking offence was just laughable. The man has taken offence himself plenty so why is it ok for him?
I actually think he's great most of the time - funny and a great actor and has a great way with words, all that stuff that he's renowned for, but I think he has a very smug streak also.

Eugene Norman

bnt wrote: »

He has been criticised quite vociferously; most of it coming from himself. It's hard to do it if you know something about what he's been through. The man has had seriously rough times in his life, including a troubled childhood and time in jail as a teenager, and is still clearly fragile today.

I like fry. His parents were rich and as far as I remember from his biography loving. He went to private schools. He got 3 months for credit card fraud and then immediately went to Oxford, both the lightness of the sentence and getting into an exclusive college immediately after isn't so much evidence of "rough" childhood but as a charmed one. As was the rest of his life.

He does have depression but it's not caused by his life story but a chemical imbalance.

One eyed Jack

bnt wrote: »

He has been criticised quite vociferously; most of it coming from himself. It's hard to do it if you know something about what he's been through. The man has had seriously rough times in his life, including a troubled childhood and time in jail as a teenager, and is still clearly fragile today.

I presume you mean that faux "self-depreciating" humblebrag waffle he goes on with? That's not what I consider self-criticism.

His only fragility is his overbearing and quite frankly insidious egotistical persona, which is why he can't, and never could take any professional criticism. He sees himself beyond reproach, as do those people who hold him up as the epitome of intellectualism.

Nope, I really don't like him, not since Jeeves and Wooster, and I'm quite aware of his background, doesn't give him a pass for being an ass.

Eugene Norman

Chloris wrote: »

Are they constantly criticised? Good. From what I've seen of the clubs in my local area, there's a serious lack of investment in equipment, facilities and maintenance. If a child's family can't buy them the gear, they won't be able to play properly with the rubbish equipment the club provides, or they won't be able to play at all if there are too many kids at training that day.

That's brilliant allocation of their abundance of finances. In fact, let's ban the underprivileged from visiting farms too lest they learn the ways of rural life and begin to become self sufficient.

So a volunteer organisation which trains kids for free and gives out free equipment is evil because not all the equipment is up to the standard of privately bought sports gear?

Wtf was the farm sentence even about. What was its relevance.

crockholm

Well,it's a boards sacred cow-but,I actually agree with what the Young lad Donal Walsh said,more importantly,why he said what he said.He was a Young fellah doing his best to hold on to his fleeting existance and a bunch of ****heads are topping themselves because they can't get what they want,and leaving their families in torment.

bnt

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I presume you mean that faux "self-depreciating" humblebrag waffle he goes on with? That's not what I consider self-criticism.

"humblebrag"? Total misreading of his style. Perhaps you'd be right if he was American - but he's English, he uses understatement to mask some genuine insecurities. He's harder on himself than on anyone else. Not a saint, nor a sacred cow considering some of the online abuse he's had. (Read some of the comments on that article, too.)

Dwarf.Shortage

crockholm wrote: »

Well,it's a boards sacred cow-but,I actually agree with what the Young lad Donal Walsh said,more importantly,why he said what he said.He was a Young fellah doing his best to hold on to his fleeting existance and a bunch of ****heads are topping themselves because they can't get what they want,and leaving their families in torment.

Have you considered the idea that committing suicide is f**king horrible and truly the last resort of people who'd rather not live at all than be forced to continue to live inside their own heads? The idea that people kill themselves because they aren't getting their own way is laughable and screams of ignorance.

Cold War Kid

crockholm wrote: »

Well,it's a boards sacred cow-but,I actually agree with what the Young lad Donal Walsh said,more importantly,why he said what he said.He was a Young fellah doing his best to hold on to his fleeting existance and a bunch of ****heads are topping themselves because they can't get what they want,and leaving their families in torment.

It takes a massive amount of torment for someone to kill themselves - the ultimate act going against instinct; it's an extremely difficult thing to do. Crushing anxiety and depression isn't quite the same as "not getting what a person wants". I've had depression and mine was mild, yet it was absolutely horrendous; hellish.
Someone with severe depression, who's on 500mg of meds per day... I can see how they'd just be desperate for this pain to end.

I think Donal meant well and didn't deserve criticism, because he was very young and couldn't be expected to understand the full implications, as well as being in a position obviously where the idea of someone choosing to end their life was unfathomable. That's completely understandable.
It's not fair though for more mature and less biased people to dismiss those who commit suicide as just being crybabies with first-world problems.
It is horrendous on those left behind for sure, but completely lacking any real insight to imply people would take the massive step of killing themselves over something insigificant.

crockholm

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Have you considered the idea that committing suicide is f**king horrible and truly the last resort of people who'd rather not live at all than be forced to continue to live inside their own heads? The idea that people kill themselves because they aren't getting their own way is laughable and screams of ignorance.

Indeed-much,much more than you will ever know.And having come out the other end of the tunnel,it does give a bit of perspective.The boy (16) gave an opinion.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

The GAA gets a massive amount of criticism on this forum, probably more so than any of the other sporting organisations in Ireland. It's far from a sacred cow. If you want to see that, look at the Irish rugby team. The Irish media are devoted to licking their holes every time there's a game.

Dwarf.Shortage

crockholm wrote: »

Indeed-much,much more than you will ever know.And having come out the other end of the tunnel,it does give a bit of perspective.The boy (16) gave an opinion.

This post makes me believe you're genuine, but at the same time "a bunch of ****heads are topping themselves because they can't get what they want,and leaving their families in torment." is just violently off the mark.

Do you consider suicide a selfish act?

the_syco

Cold War Kid wrote: »

I think Donal meant well and didn't deserve criticism, because he was very young and couldn't be expected to understand the full implications, as well as being in a position obviously where the idea of someone choosing to end their life was unfathomable.

He was played. Simple as.

Cold War Kid

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

This post makes me believe you're genuine, but at the same time "a bunch of ****heads are topping themselves because they can't get what they want,and leaving their families in torment." is just violently off the mark.

Do you consider suicide a selfish act?

Technically it is IMO, because of how it devastates those left behind, but as I said, I have every sympathy. People don't do it with the intent of hurting people, they do it because life in their own heads all day every day is hell, and there's no getting better (unfortunately "Long-term solution to short-term problem" isn't always true. A friend of mine with severe depression will never get well - and she's on disability now; can't work because of it anymore. She's taking her meds, which control it, but they don't make her or her life better).
What I object to is when it gets called "cowardly".

I'd compare it to a terminally ill person in agonising pain wanting to avail of euthanasia.

crockholm

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

This post makes me believe you're genuine, but at the same time "a bunch of ****heads are topping themselves because they can't get what they want,and leaving their families in torment." is just violently off the mark.

Do you consider suicide a selfish act?

I have known 5 people that have killed themselves-4 of the 5 were under 20. One was" a boy didn't like me". 2 others were 2 siblings,when I talked to the elder brother about his younger brother killing himself-his reaction was,and I'm being serious here,"I can't Believe he did it Before me".Another was a kid who had Everything-when he cheated on the mother of his kid and she didn't take him back-he thought that suicide would be his revenge.

So,I'm sure there are people who kill themselves for altruistic reasons,but don't deny that there are a lot of selfish shyts doing it too.

Dwarf.Shortage

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Technically it is IMO, because of how it devastates those left behind, but as I said, I have every sympathy. People don't do it with the intent of hurting people, they do it because life in their own heads all day every day is hell, and there's no getting better (unfortunately "Long-term solution to short-term problem" isn't always true. A friend of mine with severe depression will never get well - and she's on disability now; can't work because of it anymore. She's taking her meds, which control it, but they don't make her or her life better).
What I object to is when it gets called "cowardly".

I'd compare it to a terminally ill person in agonising pain wanting to avail of euthanasia.

Tell me if I'm over stepping the mark here but would I be right in saying you've been down for a spell yourself but have came through it? your sentiment seems to reflect that kind of experience.

LadyAthame

crockholm wrote: »

I have known 5 people that have killed themselves-4 of the 5 were under 20. One was" a boy didn't like me". 2 others were 2 siblings,when I talked to the elder brother about his younger brother killing himself-his reaction was,and I'm being serious here,"I can't Believe he did it Before me".Another was a kid who had Everything-when he cheated on the mother of his kid and she didn't take him back-he thought that suicide would be his revenge.

So,I'm sure there are people who kill themselves for altruistic reasons,but don't deny that there are a lot of selfish shyts doing it too.

My brother knew someone who took their own life he was schizophrenic. People can do it out of confusion or shock.

Dwarf.Shortage

crockholm wrote: »

I have known 5 people that have killed themselves-4 of the 5 were under 20. One was" a boy didn't like me". 2 others were 2 siblings,when I talked to the elder brother about his younger brother killing himself-his reaction was,and I'm being serious here,"I can't Believe he did it Before me".Another was a kid who had Everything-when he cheated on the mother of his kid and she didn't take him back-he thought that suicide would be his revenge.

So,I'm sure there are people who kill themselves for altruistic reasons,but don't deny that there are a lot of selfish shyts doing it too.

I'd venture that the sample you speak of isn't particularly representative.

One eyed Jack

crockholm wrote: »

Indeed-much,much more than you will ever know.And having come out the other end of the tunnel,it does give a bit of perspective.The boy (16) gave an opinion.

I actually agree that Donal Walsh came in for an unfair amount of criticism from people that couldn't understand that it wasn't them he was addressing. It was young people his own age that were experiencing suicidal ideation, and his message was a rather simple one, but some people chose to misinterpret his opinions, either because they genuinely misunderstood what he was saying, or because they just didn't like what he was saying as they thought it was them he was speaking to or speaking about.

Fortunately, many more people were inspired by Donal than those people who were offended by his opinions which they had misinterpreted for whatever reason.

Criticism the attitudes of people who are experiencing mental health difficulties seems to be a sacred cow on Boards though. It's not criticising people because they are experiencing mental health difficulties, it's criticising their attitudes. I know many more people with mental health difficulties that don't use their experiences as an excuse to express a poor attitude towards other people.

LadyAthame

I think people sometimes don't distinguish between a sacred cow and those who we should make allowances for. Young people etc. Walsh was a child. It's understandable sometimes. I know many more people with mental health difficulties that don't use their experiences as an excuse to express a poor attitude towards other people.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I know many more people with mental health difficulties that don't use their experiences as an excuse to express a poor attitude towards other people.

Well said. Experiences hopefully give you better perspective not less.

crockholm

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

I'd venture that the sample you speak of isn't particularly representative.

You would honestly be surprised about the spurious reasons for suicide, a neighbour,whose son killed himself decided to have a family only burial,because the son that killed himself was a classmate of Another suicide.

The mans thinking was that he didn't want guards of honour or weeping Girls keening over a friend to seem like an "attractive " thing,not to glorify the act itself.

LadyAthame

crockholm wrote: »

You would honestly be surprised about the spurious reasons for suicide, a neighbour,whose son killed himself decided to have a family only burial,because the son that killed himself was a classmate of Another suicide.

The mans thinking was that he didn't want guards of honour or weeping Girls keening over a friend to seem like an "attractive " thing,not to glorify the act itself.

Teens don't have a lot of experience in life their minds are still developing.

crockholm

LadyAthame wrote: »

Teens don't have a lot of experience in life their minds are still developing.

And maybe when they saw a Contemporary in his Death-throes begging for a last lease of Life that cancer was denying him,maybe it would give one or two a pause for thought-and maybe talk to someone.

Chloris

Eugene Norman wrote:

So a volunteer organisation which trains kids for free and gives out free equipment is evil because not all the equipment is up to the standard of privately bought sports gear?

I've volunteered training kids in the hurleys and the camogies in disadvantaged areas, I'm conveying that the GAA don't fund their training adequately, particularly in urban areas where they could really do with the support. The schools I've taught in do an awful lot, the clubs mostly hold fundraisers for any money they urgently need - building & pitch maintenence mostly, the equipment always takes a back seat. I saw a kid whacked in the face with a sliotar nearly lose an eye because of a bandy helmet. Another had the rusty exposed metal at the top of the hurley embedded in his lower back after an interception.

Seriously, I've seen first hand, time and time again, that the amount of money the GAA puts back into communities is a lot less than what it puts into the pockets of the dicks at the top.

Eugene Norman wrote:

Wtf was the farm sentence even about. What was its relevance.

Juxtaposing urban and rural life, using the metaphor of the GAA double standards, but it was probably too nuanced for you.

LadyAthame

crockholm wrote: »

And maybe when they saw a Contemporary in his Death-throes begging for a last lease of Life that cancer was denying him,maybe it would give one or two a pause for thought-and maybe talk to someone.

That is certainly true for some yes I agree. But what I mean is teens don't have impulse control. They have an underlying vulnerability that is a part of brain development. It’s an attempt to solve a problem of intense pain with impaired problem-solving skills. Sometimes in times of great emotional turmoil some people's problem-solving skills are not great. Some people have a switch to remain calm and cool or even cold in a disaster and some find it more difficult.

It's natural to be angry at the person who took their life. It's even part of the grieving process sometimes. Look at Joan Rivers etc her experience with it.

Very little in this day and age though is a true sacred cow, not with the internet.

When the Sun Hits

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Fortunately, many more people were inspired by Donal than those people who were offended by his opinions which they had misinterpreted for whatever reason.

You have no idea if that's true or not. There is no way of knowing.

It sounded like a message permeated with frustration and anger to me, which is probably understandable given his situation. I think at one point he even said "it fills me with anger" or something similar.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm diagnosed with clinical depression. So thoughts of suicide is something I have to deal with. His comments didn't affect me hugely, but if anything, made me feel a bit guilty and reluctant to talk to someone. How dare I feel like that, you know? In good health with my life ahead of me.

I think it was the general simplicity he viewed depression with that caused the negative reaction. It was a "why should they feel down?" attitude. An uneducated attitude. Depression has many symptoms, both physical and mental. It really effects a person in many many ways, from complex mental states like anhedonia to extreme fatigue to debilitating insomnia. A 16 year old boy with no experience of depression was never going to understand that, and he clearly didn't.

Awareness to sources of help and education in general are important. A child addressing the nation on depression? It was wrong, messed up and backwards. I was disgusted that RTE did that. I consider them to be fully responsible.