Who trains dogs for kids with autism?

tishia05

Hello

I have a 2 year old boy who is autistic. Although he has very poor social skills he loves dogs and is very gentle with them. We heard about therapy with dogs and are very interested in trying. I have contacted all charities that specialize in that type of thing. Unfortunately demand is so big that even waiting lists are suspended.

I feel that time is not our side here and i don't want to wait 1 year to be put on the list. So here's my question:
If we provided a dog, could somebody train him? Do you know anybody that does that type of thing? ( i have asked those charities for same but was told they do not provide that type of service)

My boy is in regress now( he lost very few words he had and social skills are close to none) that's why i believe that sooner we get/train the dog the better. I'm thinking labrador...
Any comment would be appreciated!

DBB

Hi OP,
This is an unregulated area where you need to tread carefully, as *some* privateers have spotted the gap in the market for assistance/therapy dogs, and are somehow producing dogs to sell on to people like yourself for huge prices (many parents fundraise to buy the dog who is really not sufficiently trained, and certainly has not been trained by anyone with the knowledge one needs to have to train, let alone source, a suitable, good dog.)
I'm going to suggest that you try contacting the lovely Alison from Elista Education, an organisation which trains people to train therapy and assistance dogs, based in Laois. She can potentially put you in touch with some of her students and graduates, who you can rest assured will have been trained properly, using evidence-based, tried and tested methodologies. With any luck, perhaps one of these people could help you out.... Being an assistance/therapy dog is a pretty tough old station for a dog, it's really important to get the right dog for the right situation, rather than just handing a large sum of cash to someone who's ultimately only interested in that cash!

muddypaws

+ 1 million to DBB's post.

I've been asked by a few people about this, and always recommend that they contact Alison, I know a few people who have trained with her, and one in particular that has trained a dog for a family in similar circumstances to yourself.

Unfortunately this week I saw a dog in an animal sanctuary looking for a new home, 18 months old, and a failed service dog, I can only assume this dog came from a private company, as the charities that do this have their own systems in place for dogs that don't make the mark.

DBB

Hmmm, I suspect that the dog you're referring to came from the place I referred to above. This is the same organisation who sold a "trained" dog to a family with an autistic son for enormous money, and the (female) dog shortly after gave birth to a litter of pit x pups. I met one of the pups last week.
He obviously runs a tight ship. Not.

Dubl07

Coincidentally (?) this came up on FB today.

Realtine

Autism Assistance Dogs Ireland (www.autismassistancedogsireland.ie)

An interesting article I remember reading recently.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/little-toddlers-life-changed-forever-after-he-receives-special-assistance-dog-31014316.html

Millem

I have never heard of these places that charge :eek:

Autism assistance dogs Ireland (aadi) do not charge and are based in cork. I have fundraised for them. The girl that runs it (Nuala) used to work for guide dogs for the blind. They currently have a 5 year waiting list through. They did do a trial where someone bought a pup which they helped to train....I dont know how it turned out. I will try and find the link.

From memory my canine companion (the link with the autistic boy from kimmage) do not charge. I have a feeling the girl cliona who runs it used to work with Nuala (AADI) in the guide dogs and then in Aadi but left to set up my canine companion. I am guessing the reason why the mum is fundraising is the same reason why alot of people were fundraising last Friday for the guide dogs.....to raise money and not to "buy" a dog. The more money fundraised the more dogs get trained.

I know AADI charge for dogs just like guide dogs for the blind a donation fee for dogs that don't qualify. These dogs have been fully vaccinated are speyed/neutered, will be toilet/lead trained etc but won't be fully trained to be an assistance dog.

muddypaws

DBB wrote: »

Hmmm, I suspect that the dog you're referring to came from the place I referred to above. This is the same organisation who sold a "trained" dog to a family with an autistic son for enormous money, and the (female) dog shortly after gave birth to a litter of pit x pups. I met one of the pups last week.
He obviously runs a tight ship. Not.

Yeah, way too much of a coincidence.

Millem wrote: »

I have never heard of these places that charge :eek:

Autism assistance dogs Ireland (aadi) do not charge and are based in cork. I have fundraised for them. The girl that runs it (Nuala) used to work for guide dogs for the blind. They currently have a 5 year waiting list through. They did do a trial where someone bought a pup which they helped to train....I dont know how it turned out. I will try and find the link.

From memory my canine companion (the link with the autistic boy from kimmage) do not charge. I have a feeling the girl cliona who runs it used to work with Nuala (AADI) in the guide dogs. I am guessing the reason why the mum is fundraising is the same reason why alot of people were fundraising last Friday for the guide dogs.....to raise money and not to "buy" a dog.

Unfortunately not. There is at least one private company that charges around €6-7,000 for a pup, and the parents, families and friends do the fundraising. There is one local to me that the community is involved with, and it is for a dog from a private company, they will pay the company direct.

Millem

muddypaws wrote: »

Yeah, way too much of a coincidence.




Unfortunately not. There is at least one private company that charges around €6-7,000 for a pup, and the parents, families and friends do the fundraising. There is one local to me that the community is involved with, and it is for a dog from a private company, they will pay the company direct.

So are you saying "my canine companion" (which is a registered charity) charges for the dog?

muddypaws

Millem wrote: »

So are you saying "my canine companion" (which is a registered charity) charges for the dog?

No, sorry if I gave that impression. The private company that DBB and I are referring to charges that and is in that second link posted above.

I doubt we're allowed to give the name on here, as we are banned from using the name of the 'normal' dog training company that the owner also owns.

Millem

muddypaws wrote: »

No, sorry if I gave that impression. The private company that DBB and I are referring to charges that.

I doubt we're allowed to give the name on here, as we are banned from using the name of the 'normal' dog training company that the owner also owns.

Ok I think we got our wires crossed

A quick Google has told me who that "private trainer" is. He also has a residential place. Dreadful dreadful place. I won't mentioning as I guess they will threaten legal action.

I think we should make it very clear that "my canine companion" and "autism assistance Ireland" are registered charities that do not charge for assistance dogs.
I have reread that Indo article and it's quite misleading....I think mum is fundraising for my canine companion even though it's labelled "daragh's puppy fund".

exaisle

A friend of mine whose son is on the autism spectrum got a dog from Irish Guide Dogs for the Blind in Cork.

She had to pay for the dog....I think 1000-1500 but cant be quite sure of that (and I'd rather not ask) but I know it's been a fantastic experience for her son who has made enormous progress since his companion dog arrived.

muddypaws

Definitely, I am not saying that either My Canine Companion, or Autism Assistance Ireland charge people for their dogs, They are both charities that do great work.

I think the problem is that there is such a demand for these dogs, that the charities just can't keep up with it, so there are huge waiting lists, and people then look elsewhere - which is understandable when you have a child that you are trying to help.

muddypaws

exaisle wrote: »

A friend of mine whose son is on the autism spectrum got a dog from Irish Guide Dogs for the Blind in Cork.

She had to pay for the dog....I think 1000-1500 but cant be quite sure of that (and I'd rather not ask) but I know it's been a fantastic experience for her son who has made enormous progress since his companion dog arrived.

I wonder if that was a dog that didn't make the grade as a Guide Dog? Just thinking that a dog that lives and works with an autistic person may not have to have the same 'abilities' as a working guide dog. They would be more of a support dog. OP, it could be worth contacting Guide Dogs for the Blind, to see if that is the case, and whether they would be able to help you and your son in that way.

Knine

Does that Dundalk place also 'train' dogs for other disciplines or have I got my wires crossed?

DBB

Knine wrote: »

Does that Dundalk place also 'train' dogs for other disciplines or have I got my wires crossed?

No, your wires aren't crossed.

Knine

Thanks I was just wondering because I saw them advertising for Golden Retrievers & did not seem too fussy about where they came from. As a parent to a child with a severe disability it is extremely worrying. Then there is the dodgy training methods. Imagine placing one of these dogs with a very vunerable child

tk123

OP what's your plan here - you provide a dog - are you going to buy a puppy, raise it for 18 months then have it trained? How are you going to know when buying a pup if it's even going to be suitable as a service dog? What happens it's not suitable got health/temperament reasons - do you start all over again? Or are you going to get a adult dog somewhere and hope everything will turn out ok? This is why dogs for the disabled etc have breeding stock - the puppies being produced have a proven track record.

I have 2 retrievers who are a popular choice for service dogs - one would make a great service dog (if she didn't knock the child over because she's so solid) the other most certainly would not.

I'd question the values of somebody who suggests they can train any family pet as a service dog for the right price and potentially put a child at risk.

DBB

Another thing to bear in mind, and I'm not aiming this at you at all OP! Just a general observation
When purpose-run charities train assistance dogs, it is in their best interests to make sure both the dog's, and the family's, best interests are served. They have the expertise to know what dog will fit into which family, and critically, they know when it is not advisable to place a dog into a home with an autistic child.
For example, the child may not be responsive to animals, or worse, may be too rough with animals (not necessarily on purpose): there is an assuption that all autistic kids respond well to animal therapy... but this simply is not true. Some do, many don't.
It may even be that the charity don't feel that the family is not suitable to own a dog... I've seen it a few times now where the dog was bought from a privateer, where a dog was obtained for the autistic child with an expectation that the dog would miraculously and spontaneously "cure" the child, and when it didn't happen, the dog got fecked out into the garden.
The charities who train the dogs want to prevent any of the above from happening, and they're trained and experienced enough to know what works, and what doesn't. Critically, even if after all the vetting, and all the assessments, and all the preparations, the dog doesn't work out in the destination home, the charity will always take the dog back.
However, the privateers who are selling assistance dogs don't have this same level of accountability or concern for all involved: once you've bought your dog, you're pretty much on your own, whether the dog works out or not. They simply do not have the training or expertise to assess the child and family, to make sure that the child and family are suitable candidates for an assistance dog. And quite frankly, they don't need to care, because they know there are parents desperate to spend whatever they have to in the hopes that it helps their child.
If you've an autistic child, and you also have €6000+ going spare, you get a dog. End of.
Knowing the record of one privateer (not a charity), there's every chance that if you complained, you'd be told exactly where to go. And there's every chance that's why that "failed assistance" dog has ended up a sanctuary... I'm guessing that the original training company wouldn't take it back, and did not have to account for why they placed a dog that was not up to scratch in a home in the first place.

tishia05

muddypaws wrote: »

+ 1 million to DBB's post.

I've been asked by a few people about this, and always recommend that they contact Alison, I know a few people who have trained with her, and one in particular that has trained a dog for a family in similar circumstances to yourself.

Unfortunately this week I saw a dog in an animal sanctuary looking for a new home, 18 months old, and a failed service dog, I can only assume this dog came from a private company, as the charities that do this have their own systems in place for dogs that don't make the mark.

Do you think it would be wise to take a dog from a sanctuary? Maybe I'm going to far?
My boy is too young to have a service dog ( although it would probably help) but in that case companion dog would be the best. If I work really hard he might not need a service dog in few years

tishia05

Millem wrote: »

I have never heard of these places that charge :eek:

Autism assistance dogs Ireland (aadi) do not charge and are based in cork. I have fundraised for them. The girl that runs it (Nuala) used to work for guide dogs for the blind. They currently have a 5 year waiting list through. They did do a trial where someone bought a pup which they helped to train....I dont know how it turned out. I will try and find the link.

From memory my canine companion (the link with the autistic boy from kimmage) do not charge. I have a feeling the girl cliona who runs it used to work with Nuala (AADI) in the guide dogs and then in Aadi but left to set up my canine companion. I am guessing the reason why the mum is fundraising is the same reason why alot of people were fundraising last Friday for the guide dogs.....to raise money and not to "buy" a dog. The more money fundraised the more dogs get trained.

I know AADI charge for dogs just like guide dogs for the blind a donation fee for dogs that don't qualify. These dogs have been fully vaccinated are speyed/neutered, will be toilet/lead trained etc but won't be fully trained to be an assistance dog.

They have closed their waiting lists. I was told to contact them in 6-7 months time to check it re-opened.... I can't wait that long as time is really important here

tishia05

tk123 wrote: »

OP what's your plan here - you provide a dog - are you going to buy a puppy, raise it for 18 months then have it trained? How are you going to know when buying a pup if it's even going to be suitable as a service dog? What happens it's not suitable got health/temperament reasons - do you start all over again? Or are you going to get a adult dog somewhere and hope everything will turn out ok? This is why dogs for the disabled etc have breeding stock - the puppies being produced have a proven track record.

I have 2 retrievers who are a popular choice for service dogs - one would make a great service dog (if she didn't knock the child over because she's so solid) the other most certainly would not.

I'd question the values of somebody who suggests they can train any family pet as a service dog for the right price and potentially put a child at risk.

I have done some research and found that Labradors or Retrievers are both popular in that case. I have contacted all charities that I found regarding getting companion dog. Was told NO by all due high demand/closing waiting lists. And that's why I'm here... to get some information( which is fantastic) on how can I go about it on my own.
Myself and husband are dog lovers, my boy loves dogs( the only affection he shows is towards dogs) and we have a new addition to a family- 5 month old baby girl.

May I ask tk 123... was one of your dogs a service dog and came back to you or are you simply making a point that some dogs are not suitable for that type of thing(just like some families)

tishia05

muddypaws wrote: »

I wonder if that was a dog that didn't make the grade as a Guide Dog? Just thinking that a dog that lives and works with an autistic person may not have to have the same 'abilities' as a working guide dog. They would be more of a support dog. OP, it could be worth contacting Guide Dogs for the Blind, to see if that is the case, and whether they would be able to help you and your son in that way.

Also closed waiting lists but I DO thank you for suggestion!

JessicaH1991

canine companion are in cork. The list to get a trained dog is long but they give out untrained dogs and tell you the best way to train them, then they do an intense course for a few weeks in cork, when old enough.

Wanderer78

DBB wrote: »

Hi OP,
This is an unregulated area where you need to tread carefully, as *some* privateers have spotted the gap in the market for assistance/therapy dogs, and are somehow producing dogs to sell on to people like yourself for huge prices (many parents fundraise to buy the dog who is really not sufficiently trained, and certainly has not been trained by anyone with the knowledge one needs to have to train, let alone source, a suitable, good dog.)
I'm going to suggest that you try contacting the lovely Alison from Elista Education, an organisation which trains people to train therapy and assistance dogs, based in Laois. She can potentially put you in touch with some of her students and graduates, who you can rest assured will have been trained properly, using evidence-based, tried and tested methodologies. With any luck, perhaps one of these people could help you out.... Being an assistance/therapy dog is a pretty tough old station for a dog, it's really important to get the right dog for the right situation, rather than just handing a large sum of cash to someone who's ultimately only interested in that cash!

jesus theres some dreadful humans on this planet

DBB

Assistance dogs are not my area of expertise OP, but the first thing you'll notice about them is that they're big breeds! This is because the bigger dogs are more physically robust than smaller breeds, as there is an increased expectation that they'll be grabbed at more, and generally have to cope with more hands-on stuff from autistic kids (though, to be perfectly fair, I know plenty of non-autistic kids that are very physical with their dogs too!)
The second thing about them is that they have to be calm, gentle dogs down to their very core. A good Lab or Retriever fits the bill, BUT... the dogs used by charities are purpose bred for exactly this temperament, and have been bred for generations to be utterly bombproof, to such an extent that if you stand on their paw, it wouldn't occur to them to bite you even though you've hurt them.
German Shepherd x Lab or Retriever crosses are also used for assistance dogs by the charities, indeed I have a working German Shepherd here (not an assistance dog) who is the most gentle creature I have ever known: she would never bite... but at the same time she would not particularly enjoy being manhandled... And this is where you have to find an exceptional dog! One that is as gentle as the day is long, and who ENJOYS kids being physical with him/her!
You might find that some of the giant breeds are really easygoing and gentle... Newfoundlands spring to mind.
But there are PLENTY of Retrievers and Labs and Sheps and Newfies out there that would be entirely unsuitable: temperaments not sound enough, too active, too independent, maybe even too anxious.
If you do find a litter of pups, it can be hard to tell if a young pup is going to turn out as you'd require, although the temperament of the mother and father would be a good indicator, as would the way the pups were reared.
It might do no harm, having talked to Alison or one of the people she recommends, to seek the help of a really good, qualified trainer or behaviourist to help you with your search, as they would (should!) spot things that you won't, and indeed advise and support you regarding the early care, management and training of the pup. This could indeed turn out to be the most cost-effective, and indeed close to ideal (given that getting a dog from the charities isn's a runner right now) way of doing what you want to do But do source the trainer/behaviourist with care!

Mondeo10

I was in you situation a few years ago where my son basically screeched instead of talking. By 3 he had a few words but no social skills and never spoke to anyone other than me.

We were recommended a dog to help him progress but with waiting times we knew it would be better to go it alone.

The breeds recommended were Labrador / Retriever and Bernese Mountain Dogs.

I looked into them all but realised that I couldn't cope with Labrador as they need a lot of exercise, stimulation and to be kept busy. With my other children, caring for my son, appointments, Physio and everything else I knew I couldn't cope with a Labrador and it wouldn't be fair on the dog.

So I went The Bernese route, it was the best decision I have ever made!! She really helped my son from day 1. When we went out people would stop to admire her, ask questions about her etc and HE would answer! It made such a change to his life, he is more relaxed with her, she helps de-stress him after a bad day and they have a certain bond no one else will understand.

Sorry for the long post but hope this helps.

tishia05

Mondeo10 wrote: »

I was in you situation a few years ago where my son basically screeched instead of talking. By 3 he had a few words but no social skills and never spoke to anyone other than me.

We were recommended a dog to help him progress but with waiting times we knew it would be better to go it alone.

The breeds recommended were Labrador / Retriever and Bernese Mountain Dogs.

I looked into them all but realised that I couldn't cope with Labrador as they need a lot of exercise, stimulation and to be kept busy. With my other children, caring for my son, appointments, Physio and everything else I knew I couldn't cope with a Labrador and it wouldn't be fair on the dog.

So I went The Bernese route, it was the best decision I have ever made!! She really helped my son from day 1. When we went out people would stop to admire her, ask questions about her etc and HE would answer! It made such a change to his life, he is more relaxed with her, she helps de-stress him after a bad day and they have a certain bond no one else will understand.

Sorry for the long post but hope this helps.

Wow thank you! Yes it help a lot! Did you have train her?

tishia05

DBB wrote: »

Assistance dogs are not my area of expertise OP, but the first thing you'll notice about them is that they're big breeds! This is because the bigger dogs are more physically robust than smaller breeds, as there is an increased expectation that they'll be grabbed at more, and generally have to cope with more hands-on stuff from autistic kids (though, to be perfectly fair, I know plenty of non-autistic kids that are very physical with their dogs too!)
The second thing about them is that they have to be calm, gentle dogs down to their very core. A good Lab or Retriever fits the bill, BUT... the dogs used by charities are purpose bred for exactly this temperament, and have been bred for generations to be utterly bombproof, to such an extent that if you stand on their paw, it wouldn't occur to them to bite you even though you've hurt them.
German Shepherd x Lab or Retriever crosses are also used for assistance dogs by the charities, indeed I have a working German Shepherd here (not an assistance dog) who is the most gentle creature I have ever known: she would never bite... but at the same time she would not particularly enjoy being manhandled... And this is where you have to find an exceptional dog! One that is as gentle as the day is long, and who ENJOYS kids being physical with him/her!
You might find that some of the giant breeds are really easygoing and gentle... Newfoundlands spring to mind.
But there are PLENTY of Retrievers and Labs and Sheps and Newfies out there that would be entirely unsuitable: temperaments not sound enough, too active, too independent, maybe even too anxious.
If you do find a litter of pups, it can be hard to tell if a young pup is going to turn out as you'd require, although the temperament of the mother and father would be a good indicator, as would the way the pups were reared.
It might do no harm, having talked to Alison or one of the people she recommends, to seek the help of a really good, qualified trainer or behaviourist to help you with your search, as they would (should!) spot things that you won't, and indeed advise and support you regarding the early care, management and training of the pup. This could indeed turn out to be the most cost-effective, and indeed close to ideal (given that getting a dog from the charities isn's a runner right now) way of doing what you want to do But do source the trainer/behaviourist with care!

As soon as you mentioned Alison I found website and e-mailed her( over bank holiday it will probably take few days). I also got in touch with Lab farm in Cork and explained my problem/situation. I thought they might give me some information, so I'm waiting to hear back from them too. Thank you for help . You probably saved me thousands of €€€

DBB

tishia05 wrote: »

I also got in touch with Lab farm in Cork and explained my problem/situation.

I'm not familiar with Lab Farm... what's that?
Whereabouts in the country are you? Hopefully one of us can recommend a good trainer/behaviourist who's not too far from you, and who'd take on a case like yours
When I mentioned Newfies in my post, I was about to also mention Bernese, so it's gas that mondeo brought them up! Sounds like you've had a great experience with them Mondeo! But as I've met a few really dodgy Bernese lately due to them becoming popular with puppy farmers, I hesitated on this breed, although if you can find a good breeder the Bernese is traditionally a super dog. A bit short-lived though, unfortunately.:(

Mondeo10

tishia05 wrote: »

Wow thank you! Yes it help a lot! Did you have train her?

Yes I done all the training with her, she is extremely good motivated so will do anything for food!

I spent a lot of time looking for a breeder and eventually picked one up the North, health is a big thing in her breed and we couldn't find a suitable one where we lived so travelled to get her.

We needed a bombproof dog, that could cope with his tantrums, screaming, shouting and any rough play. She is our gentle giant.

We have her now 4 years and they are still the best of friends, she walks calmly beside him on her lead, lies beside him on the sofa or in his bed watching him play Minecraft, he lives in a Minecraft world.

I never wanted a big dog and it took a huge adjustment, I had a small non shedding terrier! Now we wouldn't be without her!

Other things to consider are, she sheds a LOT, eats a lot and She is also insured in case of any health problems, so we don't have to worry about huge health bills.