2015 All-Ireland Senior Hurling Championship Discussion Thread

zombieHanalei

JeffKenna wrote: »

That wouldn't work as mentioned due to ground restrictions...

What about something left field as an advantage like taking the draw out of the result. If it ends in a draw then the Munster or Leinster winners go through?

I doubt that any team would like to win that way though?

nice_guy80

Very Bored wrote: »

In saying this, I mean absolutely no badness towards camogie in itself nor towards camogie players. I enjoy watching camogie, particularly the finals. On Thank GAA It's Friday they were talking about the lack of media attention given to camogie, and in some ways I can see their point. The players put in as much effort as do the hurlers. But then you see things like the All Ireland camogie semi final between Cork and Kilkenny being put on today at exactly the same time as the All Ireland hurling semi final between Tipperary and Galway and you have to wonder exactly how brain dead those involved in the actual running of the camogie association are.

The GAA wants to bring Camogie and the LGFA into the one association

Both of them are resisting change

Camogie people can be the most frustrating people to deal with - always a chip on the shoulder and always an axe to grind with GAA clubs

zombieHanalei

Should be noted that all six provincial champions in the 2005-07 spell won their quarter finals, so in terms of results there isn't a strong argument that the system disadvantaged them.

The quarter finals for 2007 should have been;
Kilkenny v Cork
Clare v Limerick
Waterford v Galway
Tipperary v Wexford
(i.e. just swap Gal & Cor)
Waterford shouldn't have been paired with Cork, and there was also a 50:50 chance Limerick and Tipperary could have been paired together too despite having already met three times in the Munster championship due to the two replays. Keeping teams apart until the final makes sense.

Looking at those quarter finals I don't think the four winners would have been any different, at which stage the semi finals should have been;
Kilkenny v Limerick
Waterford v Wexford

I can understand why many in Waterford were unhappy with how things panned out in that championship. Beating one team twice is hard enough.

tippsy

I think its fair to say the the structure of the championship has meant the best 4 teams generally are in the semi-finals.
Kilkenny v Waterford
Tipp v Galway.

Its alot better than then days when Antrim/Derry would nearly always be in for a big beating come All-Ireland semi final time

Very Bored

zombieHanalei wrote: »

I don't like saying this, but if the public interest in camogie/ladies football was there in the first place then it would receive more media attention. I suppose the counter-argument could be offered that greater media attention would generate public interest, but I don't subscribe to that view myself.

That's not to say that there is no public interest in camogie/LGF, there is, but not to anywhere near the same extent as mens football/hurling. Media attention by and large responds to public demand. As for fixing the camogie semi final today; well that wouldn't be the first daft decision the Camogie Association have ever made, they sure do like to shoot themselves in the foot.

You're right on the media interest, even with the camogie being between Kilkenny and Cork I can't see too many in those counties missing the hurling semi to watch the ladies' version.

JeffKenna

zombieHanalei wrote: »

I doubt that any team would like to win that way though?

I think it would just become the norm like the away goal rule in soccer...

citykat

Great start for Tipp. Mannion ball watching.

citykat

Poor peno from Joe. Let off for Barret

citykat

Great but painful save from Gleeson

lim4ev

At last we'r seeing a good match between two good teams that want to play hurling the way it should be

citykat

Very open game. Both defences under pressure. Donnellan not letting Maher catch anything. Mannion in trouble with Callinan.

citykat

citykat wrote: »

Great start for Tipp. Mannion ball watching.

Deja vu.

citykat

FFS Mannion is killing GY on his own. Is there no other FB in GY?

citykat

citykat wrote: »

FFS Mannion is killing GY on his own. Is there no other FB in GY?

Looks like there isn't. Poor peno from Seamie. Callanan has the goalie all star after today.

zetecescort

extra time or straight to a replay?

Mars Bar

We'd be in with a great shout if we could catch the ball in the air. We're hopeless!

Mars Bar

What a point!

citykat

EOSs reign ends without the big one.

dastardly00

@ citykat

You know there is a match thread...

D'Agger

Great game for a neutral, fantastic finish to it

citykat

dastardly00 wrote: »

@ citykat

You know there is a match thread...

Cheers D. Thought it was a bit quiet alright.

thinkstoomuch1

Great games great for the championship which has been poor

Galway have a chance v kk as having lost in leinster means have chance in won't beat kk twice
They have physical strength and hurling but will have to play a sweeper in balance as kk will target the full back line


On evaluation the season now kk or Galway will be top one or two
Tippeary beat waterford so no way waterford top three
Waterford are top four

Galway if cunningjham wins will be manager year if loose cody doesn't get it no way imo can mcgrath get it in Galway got to all ireland final something waterford didn't do
They beat tipp also


Tippeary have big problem and I'm not saying it now I said it last week in i fear hurling in lost today so few great player will go and bad have selector as good as was micheál Ryan as manager when he's part set up eight year just delivered one all ireland


Huge transition for tippeary now
O shea I feel for him a good coach but got tipp two years too late in had them before Ryan could done more
Today I felt were vulnerable and posted for that very reason I felt Galway would edge it as kk peak peak performance was being kept for kk in lacked little bit edge and hunger

Tippeary have given hurling a lot but unfortunately team will be remembered as having won only one all ireland in their days

Really hard to see who is going to challenge kk next year
Tipp are in transition and needed brand new management
Limerick management like Cork have problems
Clare if Kinnerk comes back and he's back in September so it remains be seen he'll join clare

Dublin are going to be stronger next year but still in transition
Waterford it remains to be seen if they will change the system and they need under twenty one win
Galway have to win all ireland or cunningjham may go
If they win it's huge monkey off their back and you would hope they win it finally it may change their legacy success and they drive on as they have hurling no doubt
Hurling needs them to win as may offer hope but they loose it's hard to see who will break kk dominance the next few years as imo should kk win this one i make a bold statement they will win five in a row now

thinkstoomuch1

One other thing today also highlighted again is what we already knew winning Munster championship is nothing really in again like the past three years the winner fail to get to an all ireland final

I felt tippeary had to win munster but it's clear bar kk the exception break doesn't do team any favours
Winning munster as sad as it's to say again is shown to be no relevance to the all ireland championship again in truth by the last three years and even other years

The league this year has showed to be no real gauge in kk and Galway had poor league but championship have delivered
I think the league next year kk will go to win it

Gael85

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

One other thing today also highlighted again is what we already knew winning Munster championship is nothing really in again like the past three years the winner fail to get to an all ireland final

I felt tippeary had to win munster but it's clear bar kk the exception break doesn't do team any favours
Winning munster as sad as it's to say again is shown to be no relevance to the all ireland championship again in truth by the last three years and even other years

The league this year has showed to be no real gauge in kk and Galway had poor league but championship have delivered
I think the league next year kk will go to win it

How long is the gap between provincial final and semi? The teams coming through back door have momentum playing a Quarter Final. I suppose Kilkenny are used to it and probably play round of club championship.

oconnol1

The west awake, congrats to Galway. Next stop croker on sept 6th.

zetecescort

anybody have an idea on the amount of goals scored from penalties since it went 1 v 1? far from a guaranteed goal some feared anyway

dastardly00

zetecescort wrote: »

anybody have an idea on the amount of goals scored from penalties since it went 1 v 1? far from a guaranteed goal some feared anyway

I think there were some stats about it a couple of months ago... Sorry can't remember where (no help to you I know!). I think maybe the Anthony Nash rule thread had some discussion about it.

PTH2009

Galway have it in bag . History of the championship tells us that teams who play each other twice that there is never a 100% win record for one team ( 1997, 2012).

blackcard

PTH2009 wrote: »

Galway have it in bag . History of the championship tells us that teams who play each other twice that there is never a 100% win record for one team ( 1997, 2012).

1998 is another example, but don't think KK will concede yet

JeffKenna

PTH2009 wrote: »

Galway have it in bag . History of the championship tells us that teams who play each other twice that there is never a 100% win record for one team ( 1997, 2012).

To be fair two games doesn't make a sample large enough to draw that conclusion!

dastardly00

PTH2009 wrote: »

Galway have it in bag . History of the championship tells us that teams who play each other twice that there is never a 100% win record for one team ( 1997, 2012).

And your predictions are about as reliable as the Irish weather!

keeponhurling

PTH2009 wrote: »

Galway have it in bag . History of the championship tells us that teams who play each other twice that there is never a 100% win record for one team ( 1997, 2012).

Ahem, 1997?
Are you trying to take that from us as well ??

windy shepard henderson

PTH2009 wrote: »

Galway have it in bag . History of the championship tells us that teams who play each other twice that there is never a 100% win record for one team ( 1997, 2012).

clare beat tipperary twice in 1997 , and in truth while galway have improved in the last few weeks they really need to up things for the final they were miles behind kilkenny in leinster

if you want to talk about records take a look at anthony cunningham's reccord's in all ireland final's in both football and hurling club and intercounty , it dose'nt make for pleasant reading

donnem33

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

clare beat tipperary twice in 1997 , and in truth while galway have improved in the last few weeks they really need to up things for the final they were miles behind kilkenny in leinster

if you want to talk about records take a look at anthony cunningham's reccord's in all ireland final's in both football and hurling club and intercounty , it dose'nt make for pleasant reading

all records are there to be beaten!!! we never beat Dublin in championship hurling until this summer either!

Amprodude

donnem33 wrote: »

all records are there to be beaten!!! we never beat Dublin in championship hurling until this summer either!

And Galway hadn't beaten Tipp since 2005. They must beat Waterford at some stage too. To be fair it must be said that with all the talent Tipp have in club level minor, U-21, 2 All Ireland's since 2000 is a pretty bad statistic. I don't know where it all went wrong since 2010 as the team looked like it could win many more All Ireland's but I think it could be an end of a era for this Tipp team. They failed to bridge the gap in the roll of honour to Cork when Cork hurling was and still is in real crisis. Opportunities missed and I don't think Tipp will ever beat Kilkenny in a final, whatever chance Galway have. Tipp have lost to Kilkenny each time in the 2000s bar one time (2010) and they were a way off what was required today. Galway the much better team and really should have won by a lot more. Those goals by Callanan were the only lifelines Tipp had today. They were well beaten all over the field. Galway need to sharpen up their shooting if they are to take Kilkenny. Missed a lot today.

windy shepard henderson

donnem33 wrote: »

all records are there to be beaten!!! we never beat Dublin in championship hurling until this summer either!

agreed , they count for nothing i hope galway do win the final especially for cunningham and how close he came in the past especially in 2012

savannahkat

Amprodude wrote: »

And Galway hadn't beaten Tipp since 2005. They must beat Waterford at some stage too. To be fair it must be said that with all the talent Tipp have in club level minor, U-21, 2 All Ireland's since 2000 is a pretty bad statistic. I don't know where it all went wrong since 2010 as the team looked like it could win many more All Ireland's but I think it could be an end of a era for this Tipp team. They failed to bridge the gap in the roll of honour to Cork when Cork hurling was and still is in real crisis. Opportunities missed and I don't think Tipp will ever beat Kilkenny in a final, whatever chance Galway have. Tipp have lost to Kilkenny each time in the 2000s bar one time (2010) and they were a way off what was required today. Galway the much better team and really should have won by a lot more. Those goals by Callanan were the only lifelines Tipp had today. They were well beaten all over the field. Galway need to sharpen up their shooting if they are to take Kilkenny. Missed a lot today.

Sure you know, you just wont admit it .You know as well as I do that it has all got to do with Kilkenny.

Amprodude

savannahkat wrote: »

Sure you know, you just wont admit it .You know as well as I do that it has all got to do with Kilkenny.

Well it has but Kilkenny could have been beaten in 2012 and 14 just as well first day out. They lost to a very poor Cork team in 2013. Kilkenny best team of all time but they aren't a patch on the 2006-2010 team and I believe can be beaten. If anyone can do it it will be Galway.

Grueller

Amprodude wrote: »

Well it has but Kilkenny could have been beaten in 2012 and 14 just as well first day out. They lost to a very poor Cork team in 2013. Kilkenny best team of all time but they aren't a patch on the 2006-2010 team and I believe can be beaten. If anyone can do it it will be Galway.

Sure it can't be anyone else now this year.

Browney7

Amprodude wrote: »

Well it has but Kilkenny could have been beaten in 2012 and 14 just as well first day out. They lost to a very poor Cork team in 2013. Kilkenny best team of all time but they aren't a patch on the 2006-2010 team and I believe can be beaten. If anyone can do it it will be Galway.

A full back will be a requirement!

DulchieLaois

A draw would have been ideal yesterday, the winners of the replay game would had that extra game under the belt when facing KK.

In saying that, Tipp were shocking yesterday bar Seamie...the lack of games going into a semi final clearly shows whereas Galway had 5-6 to date.

Obivously the fact that only 4 Munster Final winners of the last 11 years have reached the All Ireland Final reflects for a change of the system

And also the penalty rule in Hurling is terrible, it is no longer benefit for an attacking team to be rewarded a penalty anymore and the thrill of a 21 yard free (will he, will he not go for goal) is gone from the game.

Galway need to improve, canning had a so soo game, a lot of poor wides were hit yesterday, and the defence need to be on alert for onslaught of KK forwards constantly defending in packs

blue note

DulchieLaois wrote: »

In saying that, Tipp were shocking yesterday bar Seamie...the lack of games going into a semi final clearly shows whereas Galway had 5-6 to date.

Obivously the fact that only 4 Munster Final winners of the last 11 years have reached the All Ireland Final reflects for a change of the system

I don't think it's the lack of games that is the problem, but more maintaining such a high level for the whole summer. You can only peak for so long and I think most teams peak to win Munster. Kilkenny always aim to peak for August / September every year. And I don't think that Galway were at their peak for it either, so fingers crossed for an epic final!

donnem33

DulchieLaois wrote: »

A draw would have been ideal yesterday, the winners of the replay game would had that extra game under the belt when facing KK.

In saying that, Tipp were shocking yesterday bar Seamie...the lack of games going into a semi final clearly shows whereas Galway had 5-6 to date.

Obivously the fact that only 4 Munster Final winners of the last 11 years have reached the All Ireland Final reflects for a change of the system

And also the penalty rule in Hurling is terrible, it is no longer benefit for an attacking team to be rewarded a penalty anymore and the thrill of a 21 yard free (will he, will he not go for goal) is gone from the game.

Galway need to improve, canning had a so soo game, a lot of poor wides were hit yesterday, and the defence need to be on alert for onslaught of KK forwards constantly defending in packs

Its because they simply are not good enough!!! I do not agree with the sentiment that teams have to peak to win Munster - alot of the games are very questionable in standard!! If a team is good they will win, if they are not they will lose!!

thinkstoomuch1

I'd give Galway a reasonable chance once and only once lessons are learned from yesterday
They have no choice but to play while not a full sweeper have play deep v kk as kk will absoultey destroyed that full back line in tippeary didn't have any foothold position, and got three and could been five goals
Kk at least will break even with possession so there in is the problem imo for Galway


Galway went sweeper three years ago and cody out thought them in the replay
This Galway team is imo better in young players have improved them and once play deeper but still use excellent forwards have could have real chance


One thing Galway have going for them is to loose kk in leinster means they have a real chance as you won't beat them twice one season and cunningjham words after leinster final kk meet Galway in all ireland final was bold confidence in he knew Galway had more in them. I felt kk were going through the motions in that game and holding back but clear Galway were also now weeks later and judging by cunningjham comments.

I never felt Galway start of the year would be in final but they have made huge progress the last two months such I posted on the match thread I felt would beat tipp as I also felt tippeary were vulnerable


This tippeary team kk has absoultey suffocated down the years from defeats to kk and it's pity o shea did not get them in declan Ryan term as I rate him as a good manager but damage was done by kk to tipp years after Sheedy
Yesterday tippeary had one eye on kk as like I said tippeary needed a peak to performance beat kk and clearly yesterday off the boil as they only had one such performance in them


Galway have more in them, canning I expect will finally have awesome performance and there's more in him, Galway forwards still while improved v Cork still need to be more clinical
This Galway team three years ago much changed team lost to kk with new full back line bar Coen new keeper new half back line and new midfield
And better forwards they have also.


Only around six starters from then so unlike tipp, kk won't have them beaten before throw in

Glynn had a quiet game yesterday and naturally after cork was going to be quite
Cunningjham imo should close shop with the media up to the all ireland final, only canning Donnell and smith talk to the media
You may upset the media but tough, all ireland Their be one at the end of the day.
Young players playing all ireland final not just match have pressure as its the build up and hype is different
Management must protect their team

Glynn should stay away from the media and he can bounce back as in all ireland final replay as a teenager got great goal and last year also played well v kk so he likes kk


The only fear I have is game management from cunningjham in yesterday was a disaster in left callanan be marked by mannion then Hanbury
Not once but twice got it wrong
Do that once v kk game over in blink of an eye
You see cunningjham had no excuse when Callan got 3-8 last year and beat Galway you would think he was fore warned
He Should played sweeper even in the last twenty minutes such Galway dominance would have still won the game.

Galway forward movement and and rotating and versatility and speed and play width ptich is brilliant and could trouble kk and playing sweeper won't hindered that but actually gave them more space to attack once the delivery are precise and accurate to bypass kk spare defender
Galway should play a sweeper as if they naively go orthodox they will be blown away by kk
I think the motivation from niall o donughe and huge unity to do it for him will drive Galway on and once there in the game with ten to go they will win
Worry is the game could be over by then
They can do it


If Galway win it's great for hurling and one bright light in offers hurling hope that while you expect kk bounce back next year if means kk loose won't dominate for years, in one all ireland win could be the making of Galway in they have the hurling and in the leinster championship have easy games compared to the Munster championship, so it means like kk every year have great chance getting to all ireland quarter finals etc
Galway remind me leinster rubgy, they were brittle and weak and you can't trust them before the ist European cup win
But like leinster if they get one win imo could really win few more all ireland and at least compete with kk, as leinster win started a legacy of success.

Kk should they win will win five in a row as the next all ireland imo will be easier than this one, and should they win they have this young Galway team number going forward who currently don't fear kk at the moment but will if they loose.
Tippeary imo are down for a few years and Ryan as selector is not the man to lead them as he was part of a set up that failed to push on the Iast eight years, they need change on and off the field.
Ryan isn't a change imo.

Limerick have the players but management are a huge hindrance to them and unless it unlikely changes with selectors won't do much
Cork the feeling is jbm will go and if he does cork could have a poor manager in replacement for him.
If he stays cork won't win an all ireland either imo.
Dublin will make progress but need to rebuild.

Waterford clearly the championship has like I said all along proven the league was imo not an accurate test when kk Galway and tippeary all had poor leagues yet in the championship were better


Tippeary and kk proved that when both in second gear imo easily beat waterford. waterford had all this hype fair enough, and yes they did win a national league but that has to be taken in reality, most teams cleary hadn't the league as their priority and trained accordingly where waterford trained since November and clearly fitness helped them not this myth they had an unbeatable system
Under twenty one failure by waterford showed also they still have questions marks there regarding dealing with expectations.


Waterford made progress but like limerick last year imo are good but certainly not as good as they are being made out to be
Despite Galway poor record with them Galway would have beaten them yesterday
Galway under cunningjham changed from the waterford style three years ago and imo at least know can play a sweeper if needs be
Waterford yet showed no change or intent to do so and despite mcgrath talking he will I don't imo believe he'll change and I don't see waterford winning an all ireland soon
The championship the last two weeks proved how there were way over rated and the hype went in to over drive just like limerick the last few year's.



Clare if Kinnerk comes back will be dangerous

But this championship over all showed how poor the rest of the team are and apart from the top four aside, from top two there up to there their is a gap imo
Next year I can't see it improving hugely
And you will see lot teams beating each other and getting over hyped but once they get to the last four the level goes up


Galway you can't trust fully and this will always remain until they win an all ireland but I give them a chance
Tippeary unfortunately sport is harsh and will only be remembered as a very good team but never great team, harsh yes it is but it's unfortunately true.Great teams win more than one all ireland over time
They gave a lot to hurling and should be credited but they lost more big games then they won



Like cork football who won the all ireland but didn't beat kerry or win more all Irelands and waterford hurling gave so much with great games years ago the bottom line is in their own counties yes will be seen and rightly so as great teams however when the dust settle and people compare and contrast and reflect on them to the great great i mean really really great teams over time in the all ireland in football and hurling none of the three will imo be regarded as truly great
And the kk and kerrys truth be told don't rate them hugely imo.

Galway have to beat kk the ist day, if it's a replay truth is while on paper there is no looser the truth is you draw to kk you actually loose as there the one team like kerry that always learn more, they always evolve and adapt to win the second day so if Galway win this,they have to win the game in that seventy minutes and whatever injury time is allowed.

Kk have around ten of the team from three years ago but key key player missing makes them vulnerable as while kk this team could be great in years they are not they're just yet and this is imo if any time to beat them is in four weeks

You can't fault kk but you have to admire and respect them if they win again but for hurling and Galway I really do hope they win as limerick waterford tippeary and Cork don't look like there capable of stopping their domminance any time soon imo.
Every hurling man in ireland bar a kk man should hope Galway wins as hurling badly needs to be freshened up imo.

blue note

donnem33 wrote: »

Its because they simply are not good enough!!! I do not agree with the sentiment that teams have to peak to win Munster - alot of the games are very questionable in standard!! If a team is good they will win, if they are not they will lose!!

Since the proper back door has come in (everyone getting a second chance) 8 teams have not been good enough to win Munster, but have been good enough to reach the final that year. And out of the 9 times a team was good enough to win Munster but not to reach a final 7 times another munster team was good enough.

It just doesn't quite add up.

nice_guy80

A lot depends on the referee selected

zombieHanalei

Fair play to Anthony Cunningham, I have to hold my hands up and admit I couldn't understand why Galway reappointed him after two seasons (2013/14) I felt were totally unacceptable. Other counties would certainly have moved him on (none more so than my own county to be fair) so it just goes to show that changing the manager is not always the answer to a bad year. Maybe Davy Fitz will come good with Clare again afterall!

citykat

nice_guy80 wrote: »

A lot depends on the referee selected

Best team always wins. Ref is immaterial unless he's a complete nut job.

thinkstoomuch1

zombieHanalei wrote: »

Fair play to Anthony Cunningham, I have to hold my hands up and admit I couldn't understand why Galway reappointed him after two seasons (2013/14) I felt were totally unacceptable. Other counties would certainly have moved him on (none more so than my own county to be fair) so it just goes to show that changing the manager is not always the answer to a bad year. Maybe Davy Fitz will come good with Clare again afterall!

He was a good manager always with he's record various club teams in football and hurling
I felt myself he outgrew that team but immense credit he turned the corner
However huge test awaits before we pass true judgment as yesterday imo leaving Callan be marked by mannion was poor management


He's piece in the interview didn't justify it either
He said mannion had few blocks and won few balls
Absoultey nononenss when he's man took him three goals and few points and he created other scores


I'm sorry now but that like saying the pilot is excellent at taking off, unbelievable smooth lift off but he's landing are dangerous and tough and no mention of it
Would you expect anyone to fly with that pilot, no I wouldn't
Cunningjham need understand mannion was really exposed yesterday
Callan took him for three goals and while he's right he's difficult any one to mark no excuse left him marked by mannion for full hour


Mannion good player and should moved out and I hope he's confidence isn't gone now

He said felt best they could do in him
Point is Galway should tried Coen who would been tight and would be tenacious in even Callan won ball be under pressure to score

If Coen failed you say fair enough they tried all options but he wasn't tried
Have no doubt cody realised this weakness and tj Reid will be full forward or indeed possibly power etc
Galway should think about playing Collins as sweeper next day between full and half back as they go orthodox kk will win and win well
They have to protect the d zone around their goal
Only way beat kk limit them one goal

Cunningham deserves huge credit if Galway win all ireland and once he realised he made mistakes yesterday can learn
It was like Callan destroy them last year felt look it happens again wrong attitude imo as Kevin keegan philosophy we cconceded three goals we still score more won't work v kk

By time put Tannion back sweeper too late and wrong man play that role

Tippeary showed problems and done them huge favour exposing them only and only if Galway learn from them in the all ireland final e

zombieHanalei

Yeah that's true, the Callanan thing was poor on Cunningham's part, could have (and very nearly did) cost them a game in which they were by far the better team. I think you said elsewhere that he was forewarned in the qualifier game against Tipp last year when Callanan pretty much did exactly the same thing.