2015 All-Ireland Senior Hurling Championship Discussion Thread

glasagusban

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

It's your opinion fair enough but have you actually any logic to back this up??
Galway are a bogey team in a way yes to cork bar all Ireland finals but cork much better than them
Galway have outgrown cunningham
Limerick would actually be imo a team Galway don't fear as they always seem to have their number in championship and it's a game limerick would be huge favourites and limerick seem to freeze when everyone expects in almost any grade they play in the big games

My logic is I think Cork have probably the weakest full back line of any of the top counties. In an open game their forwards can cut teams to shreds but the only two that are in any way consistent are Harnedy and Lehane, and I think most teams will have figured Cork out and will deny them possession further out the field to supply their danger men.

I could be wrong and Cork could come out working themselves into the ground in which case they have a chance. They could beat anyone, but there is the sense they can or will implode in any game, and that full back line is a weakness.

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Limerick have no hope of winning the all Ireland, as too loyal some players,have a slow half back line, and play half forwards that have too much graft and physicality but little craft and guile and the team they picked will be similar to last year

There very predictable and one dimensional
There's a huge game in them but they lack consistent tactical excellence, nous and in games croke park there bottle remains a huge concern but there brilliant inside certain comfort zones

One, probably two, of last year's starting half forwards are likely to be out injured for the first game at least. Most likely starting half forwards at this point are Hannon Downes and Lynch -which of them lack craft and guile?

thinkstoomuch1

uote="glasagusban;95415696"]My logic is I think Cork have probably the weakest full back line of any of the top counties. In an open game their forwards can cut teams to shreds but the only two that are in any way consistent are Harnedy and Lehane, and I think most teams will have figured Cork out and will deny them possession further out the field to supply their danger men.

I could be wrong and Cork could come out working themselves into the ground in which case they have a chance. They could beat anyone, but there is the sense they can or will implode in any game, and that full back line is a weakness.




One, probably two, of last year's starting half forwards are likely to be out injured for the first game at least. Most likely starting half forwards at this point are Hannon Downes and Lynch -which of them lack craft and guile?[/quote]
The cork full back I S a problem no doubt but we may have started to solve it but still cork would have too many options all over the field to beat Galway
I agree totally that line starts with the brilliant lynch limerick have potency but when two others are fit hsve no doubt they are likely to start

I wish no players injury but the limerick players injury could be a blessing in disguise if there out and your line starts
That line would be very good I totally agree

Mountainlad

Waterford are league champions. That's how good they are. They were good enough to win the league, and they won it. Does not mean they are going to win the all-ireland.

But they are clearly a good team. Pauric Mahony is a huge loss no doubt. They are still I think 7th in the betting for the all ireland I think. Look through this thread, anyone that's given a shortened list of all ireland contenders outside of Tipp and Kilkenny (say two or three) they haven't featured in there. That's how they are rated.

TTM, you want Waterford to lose because of what you said in December when Cork were going to win comfortably against Waterford because we lost 2/3 selectors who in your opinion were proven top class mentors, we'd a bad year last year and you were using every recent example to back it up, most notably when we didn't win any of the three challenge games in December and then lost to Limerick in Waterford Crystal you said we were in big trouble as we haven't beaten any inter county opposition.

Since then Waterford have beaten and drawn with Tipp in challenge games, and drew with Clare. Think the only game we lost was to Limerick with a second string side. And in the league, competitive games that actually have some merit, the lads were unbeaten.


But every obstacle put up in front gets pushed back, every win Waterford have had you have had some reservation about in hindsight. The exception was Cork but they won a league final by ten points, still deserves credit no matter what you think about Cork.

It was silly to write Waterford off in December, I'm not writing Cork off for June though I'd have more cause to then you had then. Just accept it's a 50/50 game between two good sides and more then likely one of them will at least have a say in a quarter final later on in the year.

thinkstoomuch1

Mountainlad wrote: »

Waterford are league champions. That's how good they are. They were good enough to win the league, and they won it. Does not mean they are going to win the all-ireland.

But they are clearly a good team. Pauric Mahony is a huge loss no doubt. They are still I think 7th in the betting for the all ireland I think. Look through this thread, anyone that's given a shortened list of all ireland contenders outside of Tipp and Kilkenny (say two or three) they haven't featured in there. That's how they are rated.

TTM, you want Waterford to lose because of what you said in December when Cork were going to win comfortably against Waterford because we lost 2/3 selectors who in your opinion were proven top class mentors, we'd a bad year last year and you were using every recent example to back it up, most notably when we didn't win any of the three challenge games in December and then lost to Limerick in Waterford Crystal you said we were in big trouble as we haven't beaten any inter county opposition.

Since then Waterford have beaten and drawn with Tipp in challenge games, and drew with Clare. Think the only game we lost was to Limerick with a second string side. And in the league, competitive games that actually have some merit, the lads were unbeaten.


But every obstacle put up in front gets pushed back, every win Waterford have had you have had some reservation about in hindsight. The exception was Cork but they won a league final by ten points, still deserves credit no matter what you think about Cork.

It was silly to write Waterford off in December, I'm not writing Cork off for June though I'd have more cause to then you had then. Just accept it's a 50/50 game between two good sides and more then likely one of them will at least have a say in a quarter final later on in the year.

Sorry now but no I don't want waterford to loose just cause I said that in December but your entitled to belive that if you want
I want waterford to loose because there playing cork surely you find that logical to accept

O mahony is a huge huge loss however some waterford fans were saying waterford panel were stronger than clare well here's yere test and it should be remembered cork had four injures last week yet many failed to acknowledge that when waterford won

Waterford are league champions but how good value is this league remains a valid question
Ye won the league in 07 with a more proven side yet had based on expectations a hugely disappointing season when the total underdogs limerick won and got to the all Ireland final

Figsy32

glasagusban wrote: »

My logic is I think Cork have probably the weakest full back line of any of the top counties. In an open game their forwards can cut teams to shreds but the only two that are in any way consistent are Harnedy and Lehane, and I think most teams will have figured Cork out and will deny them possession further out the field to supply their danger men.

I could be wrong and Cork could come out working themselves into the ground in which case they have a chance. They could beat anyone, but there is the sense they can or will implode in any game, and that full back line is a weakness.

Fair points. The full back line issue is solely due to the lack of a full back though I feel. O'Neill, McDonnell and the departed O'Sullivan are all very good corner backs. It's when one of them has to fill in at full back because of an obvious danger (see Callinan and Tipp and to a lesser extent Dowling v Limerick last year) that everything goes to pieces.

Hopefully Aidan Ryan is the answer. He looks like he may be able to hold his own aerially, but he could be in trouble against pace.

lim4ev

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Limerick have no hope of winning the all Ireland, as too loyal some players,have a slow half back line, and play half forwards that have too much graft and physicality but little craft and guile and the team they picked will be similar to last year

There very predictable and one dimensional
There's a huge game in them but they lack consistent tactical excellence, nous and in games croke park there bottle remains a huge concern but there brilliant inside certain comfort zones

I don't think limerick will win the all ireland but to say they haven't a hope in my view is wrong

homeofhurling

looking back to last sundays final did waterfords fullback Barry Coughlan strike the ball once in that game for the life of me i can't remember the lad clearing one ball out the field the whole game maybe a hand pass here and there but i don't think he caught one ball or clear it up the field.

Fireball07

glasagusban wrote: »

I reckon galway are better than cork and will be this summer.

I would disagree there. Galway may have reached the AI final in 2012 and possibly could have won the first day but they've done basically nothing since then, whereas Cork were in the semi-final that year, AI final the year after, and current Munster champions. I don't think they'll win it outright; they have some serious weaknesses as you say but that is quite a good record and would expect they have way too much firepower for Galway if they were to meet.

And Conor Cooney possibly out for Galway too.

MfMan

Normally I'd wade into this debate on the maroon side, but it's impossible to see Galway having anything other than a short c'ship run. Managerial weakness aside, they just don't have any sort of settled team and their forward division, shorn of injury losses, is very, very underpowered. Hard to see anything other than a comfortable win for Dublin in a few weeks, and they are at the mercy of a kind back-door draw then. You might usually expect anything from Galway in a given year, but this year safest to expect nothing at all.

That news re: Pauric O'Mahoney true? big loss for Deise if so.

Fireball07

Did I read that right? Westmeath absolutely trashed Antrim in the hurling today? Laois beat Carlow too.


After Antrim beating Laois, that's a big shock.

redlead

Fireball07 wrote: »

Did I read that right? Westmeath absolutely trashed Antrim in the hurling today? Laois beat Carlow too.


After Antrim beating Laois, that's a big shock.

Westmeath are making great strides lately. It's some weekend for them when you factor in the minor teams big win down in Wexford. I'd say they'll have a right crack at Offaly in the quarter final.

Mountainlad

redlead wrote: »

Westmeath are making great strides lately. It's some weekend for them when you factor in the minor teams big win down in Wexford. I'd say they'll have a right crack at Offaly in the quarter final.

I suppose they have to beat Laois though? Scoring difference though is in there favour if Antrim can beat Carlow.

Listening to the Sunday Sport programme and the consensus is Tipp will win the all ireland. They're will be no easy games for anyone this year I can't imagine.

redlead

Mountainlad wrote: »

I suppose they have to beat Laois though? Scoring difference though is in there favour if Antrim can beat Carlow.

Listening to the Sunday Sport programme and the consensus is Tipp will win the all ireland. They're will be no easy games for anyone this year I can't imagine.

I think it works off scoring difference rather than head to head so Westmeath would go through even if they lose to Laois. I'm not 100% sure though

Been following bits of this thread, ill give my own opinions mainly on Galway and Waterford.

I think Waterford are back to their pre league position now that Mahony is injured.
If there next free taker is any more than 5-10% inferior the difference in those misses will be critical.
Not even just on the scoreboard but misses can deflate a teams performance.

I think Galways position is improved by default, Kilkenny are going backwards but that's just obvious as lads like JJ and Shefflin don't grow on trees, they'll still be contenders but there won't be any 10 from 15 AIs for the foreseeable future.

Since Galway have to play KK every year it makes their task a bit easier.
I think we have the players, to compete with the 2015 opponents anyway, which has seen a few others lose players to retirement.
The problem at this point is Cunningham.

Might need to wait until 2016 to see improvement, need someone passionate in there who won't accept players not giving their all to win the hard ball.

I think Corks main issue is their lack of 2/3 physical figures especially at 11 and 14.
They've some lovely hurlers but they just seem short of a bit of steel.

redlead

gilberto_eire wrote: »

I think Corks main issue is their lack of 2/3 physical figures especially at 11 and 14.
They've some lovely hurlers but they just seem short of a bit of steel.

That's an interesting opinion on Cork. I would view 11 and 14 as their two strongest areas.

Mountainlad

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Been following bits of this thread, ill give my own opinions mainly on Galway and Waterford.

I think Waterford are back to their pre league position now that Mahony is injured.
If there next free taker is any more than 5-10% inferior the difference in those misses will be critical.
Not even just on the scoreboard but misses can deflate a teams performance.

I think Galways position is improved by default, Kilkenny are going backwards but that's just obvious as lads like JJ and Shefflin don't grow on trees, they'll still be contenders but there won't be any 10 from 15 AIs for the foreseeable future.

Since Galway have to play KK every year it makes their task a bit easier.
I think we have the players, to compete with the 2015 opponents anyway, which has seen a few others lose players to retirement.
The problem at this point is Cunningham.

Might need to wait until 2016 to see improvement, need someone passionate in there who won't accept players not giving their all to win the hard ball.

I think Corks main issue is their lack of 2/3 physical figures especially at 11 and 14.
They've some lovely hurlers but they just seem short of a bit of steel.

Where is the evidence they are disimproving faster than Galway?

Ye have some good hurlers, but Loughnane, McIntyre and now Cunningham can't be the excuse everytime things don't go right. Equally, the championship structure was the problem. Then club rivalry. I don't think Galway are in the immediate position to be capitalizing on Kilkenny regressing as Dubin and Wexford seem to be improving quicker.

There are a couple of good free takers still in the Waterford team, lads that would take them for the club and have the same kind of accuracy Mahony had at that level. For example, I don't think Jake Dillon missed a free v Clare in the u21 in 2013 when deputizing for Mahony, Jamie Barron is a very good free taker, Maurice I'm not so keen on but he's taken them for Waterford at every level including Senior before.

We'll miss Paudie far more from open play than from frees, actually think he's being insulted all the talk of frees. The only slight concern I'd have with regards frees is he's shown his nerve under pressure when getting the winner v Tipp, it will be up to the others to do the same. We saw what pressure did to Declan Hannon, who is a fine free taker.

blue note

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Sorry now but no I don't want waterford to loose just cause I said that in December but your entitled to belive that if you want
I want waterford to loose because there playing cork surely you find that logical to accept

O mahony is a huge huge loss however some waterford fans were saying waterford panel were stronger than clare well here's yere test and it should be remembered cork had four injures last week yet many failed to acknowledge that when waterford won

Waterford are league champions but how good value is this league remains a valid question
Ye won the league in 07 with a more proven side yet had based on expectations a hugely disappointing season when the total underdogs limerick won and got to the all Ireland final

Mahony (not O Mahony) is a massive loss, but hopefully we'll have Fives, Daniels and Bennett back for the championship. 3 possible starters that were missing for the league final which you don't seem to acknowledge.

s8n

Laois will take some beating now that they are up and running. Serious contenders for Leinster

laoisman11

s8n wrote: »

Laois will take some beating now that they are up and running. Serious contenders for Leinster

Tbh, we'd be disappointed if we didn't go all the way now.

redlead

redlead wrote: »

That's an interesting opinion on Cork. I would view 11 and 14 as their two strongest areas.

Not saying they have weak players there, just I don't think they have any natural spine players and someone of the ilk of Canning/Callanan would do wonders for them.

And it was also their downfall last year against Tipp they couldn't deal with a big FF.

Mountainlad

Mountainlad wrote: »

Where is the evidence they are disimproving faster than Galway?

Ye have some good hurlers, but Loughnane, McIntyre and now Cunningham can't be the excuse everytime things don't go right. Equally, the championship structure was the problem. Then club rivalry. I don't think Galway are in the immediate position to be capitalizing on Kilkenny regressing as Dubin and Wexford seem to be improving quicker.

I said they were going back and Galway were staying where they were.
This improves Galway by default, it doesn't matter if Dub/Wex are better placed.
That doesn't mean Galways position hasn't improved.
Nor does that mean those two aren't equally improved, that was implied.

On the evidence, it'll be clear to see over the next few years.
The league was the start of it.
It's quite clear that lads like Holden, Walter Walsh etc haven't the skill to be sweeping teams aside as they did from 2000 til now.
They've lost their depth now and a few injuries will see further unproven players come into the fold.

They'll still be competitive, I'm just saying they won't be who they were.

On the MGMT, another poster was being pulled up on bringing up old results as an indicator.
Mentioning McIntyre and Ger at this point is also irrelevant.
There's only a tiny few there from 2011.

The problem is mostly Cunningham and I wouldn't had to venture far back in time to show relevant examples of that.

thinkstoomuch1

blue note wrote: »

Mahony (not O Mahony) is a massive loss, but hopefully we'll have Fives, Daniels and Bennett back for the championship. 3 possible starters that were missing for the league final which you don't seem to acknowledge.

Great stuff for telling me regarding the spelling keep it up lad thanks
Does Daniel or fives play half forward or are ace free taker, sorry now no the don't
Fives etc brilliant but he's coming in to a position where lad there just as strong so won't actually strengthen it hugely
Bennett very good very young though
You forget cork Ellis Murphy Nash cadogan are all key players for cork , we're severely injured last week and cork had no replacement to their level. Murphy yes is new to senior but certainly huge addition at half back

If you're can enlighten me please how Stephen Daniel a fine corner back makes up for o mahonry loss please do so
And my point is the three you named won't make a blind bit of a difference to the loss of the outstanding consistently good mahony
Indeed a huge huge worry now for Waterford

Mountainlad

gilberto_eire wrote: »

I said they were going back and Galway were staying where they were.
This improves Galway by default, it doesn't matter if Dub/Wex are better placed.
That doesn't mean Galways position hasn't improved.
Nor does that mean those two aren't equally improved, that was implied.

On the evidence, it'll be clear to see over the next few years.
The league was the start of it.
It's quite clear that lads like Holden, Walter Walsh etc haven't the skill to be sweeping teams aside as they did from 2000 til now.
They've lost their depth now and a few injuries will see further unproven players come into the fold.

They'll still be competitive, I'm just saying they won't be who they were.

On the MGMT, another poster was being pulled up on bringing up old results as an indicator.
Mentioning McIntyre and Ger at this point is also irrelevant.
There's only a tiny few there from 2011.

The problem is mostly Cunningham and I wouldn't had to venture far back in time to show relevant examples of that.

It is relevant to the extent that at some point you have to look at the players for accountability. Everything under the sun has been blamed for the years in which Galway have failed to perform. Maybe the bottom line is the team wasn't as good as the hype at the start of those years suggested?

I think at last they are rated pretty much where they are. Now, I'll grant you they nearly won the all-ireland in 2012. And they came from playing pretty poorly to turning up strongly against Kilkenny in a Leinster final and taking the next two games in their stride as well before falling flat in the drawn game. So maybe one win would set off some confidence and see them improved but it's a big maybe right now. You can't struggle over Laois twice in my opinion and solely blame the manager, though he may not aid the problem.

I wouldn't argue that Kilkenny aren't going to win 10/15 of the next all irelands. What they achieved was phenomenal so naturally it's going to have a timespan. I don't think the only thing between Galway and an all-ireland is Kilkenny though. Clare, Limerick, Waterford, Wexford and on the evidence so far this year Dublin (though may should err on the side of caution) are improving. Kilkenny still had a good minor team last year and the likes of John Power, Kevin Kelly, Paudie Walsh becoming more established will help replace some who have gone. Tipp are strong and have some good young players to aid those that are there and established already.

Galway have an awful lot of work to do, wouldn't begrudge them if they do it would applaud them in fact. But we've been listening to Galway being dark horses, or at the start of the year Des Cahill asking Donal Og could any one breach 'the big three' of Galway, Tipp and Kilkenny and those were in far less competitive times. Now that the championship is growing increasingly more competitive, it's time to be very wary about playing up there chances.

Mountainlad

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Great stuff for telling me regarding the spelling keep it up lad thanks
Does Daniel or fives play half forward or are ace free taker, sorry now no the don't
Fives etc brilliant but he's coming in to a position where lad there just as strong so won't actually strengthen it hugely
Bennett very good very young though
You forget cork Ellis Murphy Nash cadogan are all key players for cork , we're severely injured last week and cork had no replacement to their level. Murphy yes is new to senior but certainly huge addition at half back

If you're can enlighten me please how Stephen Daniel a fine corner back makes up for o mahonry loss please do so
And my point is the three you named won't make a blind bit of a difference to the loss of the outstanding consistently good mahony
Indeed a huge huge worry now for Waterford

They could move Austin Gleeson or Jamie Barron into the forwards, not sure did Austin take the frees for Mount Sion today but he was playing up front so he may well have. Fives could play wing back or midfield. Mahony is definitely one of our best forwards so undoubtedly he will be a loss. Mind you, the system is built more on a team than individuals, Brian O Halloran could come in and help strengthen the forwards too. I think Mullane was on the money, we've more depth than we've ever had. I definitely think the loss of Mahony would be some way offset by Fives returning, he was the best hurler in Waterford in my opinion at the end of 2013 (or with the most potential at least) at 21 and I think if they can get him fit he'll be a huge addition. Far greater than any of Ellis, Murphy (those two that played on Sunday by the way) or Cahalane. I would admit its doubtful hed be fully sharp without much game time behind him though.

Just on the O Mahony thing, I know it seems small but to be fair there is a lot of people doing it. He's around long enough now (and he has a brother on the team too) that people could be getting it right at this stage.

PTH2009

I think Waterford's chances of a good campaign just went out the window yesterday when pauric mahony got injured.

My prediction for Waterford this year. Cork will win on June 7th by a big margain and then Waterford will draw galway away ( losing by a small margain to Dublin) in the all Ireland and lose .

As a Waterford man I was delighted coming out of thurles last Sunday but losing pauric will destroy our season and also hearing the news cork were only at half strength. Really got my hopes down . Hopefully I'm wrong and we get too a quarter final at least

thinkstoomuch1

Mountainlad wrote: »

They could move Austin Gleeson or Jamie Barron into the forwards, not sure did Austin take the frees for Mount Sion today but he was playing up front so he may well have. Fives could play wing back or midfield. Mahony is definitely one of our best forwards so undoubtedly he will be a loss. Mind you, the system is built more on a team than individuals, Brian O Halloran could come in and help strengthen the forwards too. I think Mullane was on the money, we've more depth than we've ever had. I definitely think the loss of Mahony would be some way offset by Fives returning, he was the best hurler in Waterford in my opinion at the end of 2013 (or with the most potential at least) at 21 and I think if they can get him fit he'll be a huge addition. Far greater than any of Ellis, Murphy (those two that played on Sunday by the way) or Cahalane. I would admit its doubtful hed be fully sharp without much game time behind him though.

Just on the O Mahony thing, I know it seems small but to be fair there is a lot of people doing it. He's around long enough now (and he has a brother on the team too) that people could be getting it right at this stage.

I think gleasson imo be a better forward and yes I agree lot your points but gleasson going up weakens defence and the dynamic as yes the lads are good replacement but it's a system where take you a player other lad must play that role to a tee and mahonry imo huge huge loss with free taking also

s8n

laoisman11 wrote: »

Tbh, we'd be disappointed if we didn't go all the way now.

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or serious ?

Mountainlad

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I think gleasson imo be a better forward and yes I agree lot your points but gleasson going up weakens defence and the dynamic as yes the lads are good replacement but it's a system where take you a player other lad must play that role to a tee and mahonry imo huge huge loss with free taking also

Not if Darragh Fives goes wing back, wouldn't weaken it at all in my opinion.

thinkstoomuch1

Mountainlad wrote: »

Not if Darragh Fives goes wing back, wouldn't weaken it at all in my opinion.

Mahony such a loss course he's going weaken any team
Yere not kk yet even though ye may think ye have their depth in numbers ye don't even come close

Mountainlad

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Mahony such a loss course he's going weaken any team
Yere not kk yet even though ye may think ye have their depth in numbers ye don't even come close

I agree with the point that Waterford's strongest team includes Pauric Mahony, in fact he would be one of the first forwards on the teamsheet. I believe that Darragh Fives would also be on Waterford's strongest team, in fact one of the first names on it again. So the fact he's been missing means there would be improvement with him back in it. Him coming in allows Gleeson to move up which would make us more of a goal threat. At the same time, you are losing what Paudie brings to the table which is his vision, movement, work rate, the quickness of his wrists to score points like the two he got in the league final and an ability to win his own ball. No doubt he's a big player.

I'll give you a comparison though, if Tipp won a league without Paudie Maher and for some reason they put Bubbles back in his place (lets just pretend he's a good center back), and then Seamus Callinan got injured but Maher was back for the championship and they were able to move Bubbles up. Undoubtedly, Callinan is hard to replace but they were performing at a high level without him and while they've lost out they've also gained in another area. Not a directly comparative one, but I think Gleeson will over take Paudie once he has a few years more maturity and he is definitely more of a goal threat than anyone up there right now so wouldn't be a bad thing if he went up there.

When I said it wouldn't weaken us, I meant the backline and to be honest I think it may even strengthen us. But again all that is hinging on Darragh being fully right for the first round which is unlikely even if he's deemed ok to start.

Also, you keep bringing up Kilkenny but we're not playing Kilkenny. We won't play Kilkenny until at least a quarter final, but more likely it would have to be an all-ireland semi or final I think. And if we were getting that far we'd be very happy and so equally I'm sure the management would be happy to worry about Kilkenny then. I never said we had more depth than anyone else, all I said was we have more depth now than any Waterford team previously. I'm not thinking about all-irelands just what it means for Waterford's next game.

thinkstoomuch1

Mountainlad wrote: »

I agree with the point that Waterford's strongest team includes Pauric Mahony, in fact he would be one of the first forwards on the teamsheet. I believe that Darragh Fives would also be on Waterford's strongest team, in fact one of the first names on it again. So the fact he's been missing means there would be improvement with him back in it. Him coming in allows Gleeson to move up which would make us more of a goal threat. At the same time, you are losing what Paudie brings to the table which is his vision, movement, work rate, the quickness of his wrists to score points like the two he got in the league final and an ability to win his own ball. No doubt he's a big player.

I'll give you a comparison though, if Tipp won a league without Paudie Maher and for some reason they put Bubbles back in his place (lets just pretend he's a good center back), and then Seamus Callinan got injured but Maher was back for the championship and they were able to move Bubbles up. Undoubtedly, Callinan is hard to replace but they were performing at a high level without him and while they've lost out they've also gained in another area. Not a directly comparative one, but I think Gleeson will over take Paudie once he has a few years more maturity and he is definitely more of a goal threat than anyone up there right now so wouldn't be a bad thing if he went up there.

When I said it wouldn't weaken us, I meant the backline and to be honest I think it may even strengthen us. But again all that is hinging on Darragh being fully right for the first round which is unlikely even if he's deemed ok to start.

Also, you keep bringing up Kilkenny but we're not playing Kilkenny. We won't play Kilkenny until at least a quarter final, but more likely it would have to be an all-ireland semi or final I think. And if we were getting that far we'd be very happy and so equally I'm sure the management would be happy to worry about Kilkenny then. I never said we had more depth than anyone else, all I said was we have more depth now than any Waterford team previously. I'm not thinking about all-irelands just what it means for Waterford's next game.

A lot of if and buts and correlation with others and I'm fan correlation to others in posts but look this is simple, o mahonry is a huge huge loss to waterford and that will imo be evident in June

In eight games he got around one -80 it so approx .averaging over ten per game
Huge huge loss so to expect anyone who comes in now to be as good with no games to ease in to it is a huge ask
As the championship goes on you have a chance but with the ist game up huge ask get replacement now imo near to him and he is a colossus loss that can't be under estimated in June imo

Also like I felt last week the hype would go in to over drive and another article on waterford in a Sunday papers today means there imo facing huge huge pressure now as there been built up to extravagant height very early

They are in the limelight and there's teams waiting to play them now

DulchieLaois

Is the Leinster Round robin based on points difference or the winner of the top 2 teams meet if on the same points ?

PTH2009

Waterford losing pauric mahony is like Ireland losing Johny Sexton. Its just impossible to see us do anything but on the other hand Kerry lost the gooch last year through injury and still won an all ireland.

I tell ya one thing westmeath will have no fear of anyone in the qualifiers and could well beat offaly or wexford in leinster. Could Michael Ryan knock Waterford out of the championship??

Deise_2012

PTH2009 wrote: »

Waterford losing pauric mahony is like Ireland losing Johny Sexton. Its just impossible to see us do anything but on the other hand Kerry lost the gooch last year through injury and still won an all ireland.

I tell ya one thing westmeath will have no fear of anyone in the qualifiers and could well beat offaly or wexford in leinster. Could Michael Ryan knock Waterford out of the championship??

Losing Pauric Mahony but bringing Darragh Fives into the team. A better defender than Gleeson, which allows Gleeson to move into the forwards. Gleeson or Dillon to take the frees, Relax mate we heard you on the Waterford thread first time

Realt Dearg Sec

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Losing Pauric Mahony but bringing Darragh Fives into the team. A better defender than Gleeson, which allows Gleeson to move into the forwards. Gleeson or Dillon to take the frees, Relax mate we heard you on the Waterford thread first time

In fairness we weren't all reading that thread (I make a habit of not reading it).

Kerrydude1981

Surprised at Westmeath's big win yesterday against Antrim who beat Laois the week before,

Antrim V Carlow in the last round,whoever loses that goes down to the Christy Ring next year, dont they?

STIG83

PTH2009 wrote: »

Waterford losing pauric mahony is like Ireland losing Johny Sexton. Its just impossible to see us do anything but on the other hand Kerry lost the gooch last year through injury and still won an all ireland.

I tell ya one thing westmeath will have no fear of anyone in the qualifiers and could well beat offaly or wexford in leinster. Could Michael Ryan knock Waterford out of the championship??

*Facepalm*

zombieHanalei

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Surprised at Westmeath's big win yesterday against Antrim who beat Laois the week before,

Antrim V Carlow in the last round,whoever loses that goes down to the Christy Ring next year, dont they?

Basically yeah, and a win for Antrim will most likely mean third place for them as you would probably expect Laois to beat Westmeath but not by a margin suffucient enough to swing the big gap in scoring difference to bring Antrim back into the top two.

So I'd expect Antrim will play the Ring Cup champions for the final position in next years Leinster qualifier group of 3 teams. And, I'd expect that team to be Kerry who could possibly end their season by taking promotion at Antrim's expense for a second time this year.

However, technically Laois can still finish 4th; a win for Westmeath combined with a win for Carlow would mean Westmeath finish first with 6 points and a three way tie between the other three on two points. But automatic Laois relegation would require them to suffer a margin of defeat 18 points greater than the margin of defeat Antrim would suffer against Carlow; but only an extremely brave or extremely stupid man would bet on that scenario happening!

Kerrydude1981

zombieHanalei wrote: »

Basically yeah, and a win for Antrim will most likely mean third place for them as you would probably expect Laois to beat Westmeath but not by a margin suffucient enough to swing the big gap in scoring difference to bring Antrim back into the top two.

However, technically Laois can still finish 4th; a win for Westmeath combined with a win for Carlow would mean Westmeath finish first with 6 points and a three way tie between the other three on two points. But automatic Laois relegation would require them to suffer a margin of defeat 18 points greater than the margin of defeat Antrim would suffer against Carlow; but only an extremely brave or extremely stupid man would bet on that scenario happening!

So I'd expect Antrim will play the Ring Cup champions for the final position in next years Leinster qualifier group of 3 teams. And, I'd expect that team to be Kerry who could possibly end their season by taking promotion at Antrim's expense for a second time this year.

I dont know about our lads coming up,its been tough going so far,Down and Meath both raised their games and gave Kerry two tough games,just did about enough to get the wins.

zombieHanalei

DulchieLaois wrote: »

Is the Leinster Round robin based on points difference or the winner of the top 2 teams meet if on the same points ?

Same as league; if two teams tied, the tie breaker is determined by outcome of the match between those two teams. Points difference used when 3+ teams tied.

s8n

zombieHanalei wrote: »

Basically yeah, and a win for Antrim will most likely mean third place for them as you would probably expect Laois to beat Westmeath but not by a margin suffucient enough to swing the big gap in scoring difference to bring Antrim back into the top two.

So I'd expect Antrim will play the Ring Cup champions for the final position in next years Leinster qualifier group of 3 teams. And, I'd expect that team to be Kerry who could possibly end their season by taking promotion at Antrim's expense for a second time this year.

However, technically Laois can still finish 4th; a win for Westmeath combined with a win for Carlow would mean Westmeath finish first with 6 points and a three way tie between the other three on two points. But automatic Laois relegation would require them to suffer a margin of defeat 18 points greater than the margin of defeat Antrim would suffer against Carlow; but only an extremely brave or extremely stupid man would bet on that scenario happening!

I'm not sure where the negativity is coming about Laois - I've tipped them for leinster, fully expect them to go all the way now.

Wolfhillbilly

zombieHanalei wrote: »

Basically yeah, and a win for Antrim will most likely mean third place for them as you would probably expect Laois to beat Westmeath but not by a margin suffucient enough to swing the big gap in scoring difference to bring Antrim back into the top two.

So I'd expect Antrim will play the Ring Cup champions for the final position in next years Leinster qualifier group of 3 teams. And, I'd expect that team to be Kerry who could possibly end their season by taking promotion at Antrim's expense for a second time this year.

However, technically Laois can still finish 4th; a win for Westmeath combined with a win for Carlow would mean Westmeath finish first with 6 points and a three way tie between the other three on two points. But automatic Laois relegation would require them to suffer a margin of defeat 18 points greater than the margin of defeat Antrim would suffer against Carlow; but only an extremely brave or extremely stupid man would bet on that scenario happening!

I don't think the third placed team has to play the Christy Ring Cup winners. it was passed at Congress that the CR winners get automatic promotion from this year onwards.
It's a tough out one to call this weekend - any number of outcomes. An Antrim win coupled with a Westmeath win would see Antrim and Westmeath through.

DulchieLaois

zombieHanalei wrote: »

Same as league; if two teams tied, the tie breaker is determined by outcome of the match between those two teams. Points difference used when 3+ teams tied.

So if Laois beat Westmeath, then Laois win the group
But if Antrim win, it really depends on points difference, tis maddness:mad:

buggy beag

If kerry win the christy ring does that mean they go into the munster quarter final next year?

blue note

buggy beag wrote: »

If kerry win the christy ring does that mean they go into the munster quarter final next year?

I think they go into Leinster. Hopefully they do anyway, no point in seeing them get hammered in Munster when they could have competitive games in Leinster.

buggy beag

blue note wrote:

I think they go into Leinster. Hopefully they do anyway, no point in seeing them get hammered in Munster when they could have competitive games in Leinster.

Ya might be better for them alright,jeez wit kerry,antrim,galway and london the leinster champonship will be fairly diluted

Fireball07

buggy beag wrote: »

If kerry win the christy ring does that mean they go into the munster quarter final next year?

As of now, they go into the Leinster Championship. Realistically, it seems unlikely that they will progress from the round robin in their first season, but maybe they would. Possibly if they won the round robin, they could be put into Munster but I suppose it would have to be set beforehand.


Really, I see the round robin as separate from the provincial championship.

buggy beag

Ya its only leinster in name now i suppose.

adrian522

Only Munster in name too if Kerry aren't allowed in.

We no longer have provincial championships really if one of the "provinces" has teams from every province.

Warper

It would be farcical if Kerry were put in Leinster. You could see the logic in putting Galway/Antrim in Leinster due to the lack of competition in those provinces but Kerry being out of Munster is stupid.