After SSM, what next?

MathDebater

A referendum to get rid of the Blasphemy Law.

SpaceTime

Realistically, I'd say repealing the blasphemy laws would be the next one probably coupled with something else.

Repealing the 8th is something probably not likely to happen going into a general election unfortunately.

If you want it repealed you need to make it an electoral issue and that probably means avoiding FF and FG as neither of them are likely to have the backbone to even ask the question.

dxhound2005

MathDebater wrote: »

A referendum to get rid of the Blasphemy Law.

Issue
Removing the requirement to criminalise blasphemy.

Convention recommendations
Replace with a ban on incitement to religious hatred.

Government response
In October 2014, junior minister Aodhán Ó Ríordáin said a referendum would be held after a decision has been taken on whether or how the proposed amendment should address incitement to religious hatred. In January 2015, the Taoiseach said a referendum would not be held in 2015, and he did not expect one before the next general election.

RobertKK

There are a lot of people opposed to the Repeal the 8th that some want, but it could happen in the next government term.
Very divisive topic, and I think we had enough referendums for this government term.

nullzero

Lisbon part 4

mikemac1

nullzero wrote: »

Lisbon part 4

Vote yes for jobs!

nullzero

mikemac1 wrote: »

Vote yes for jobs!

They're on the way

MathDebater

mikemac1 wrote: »

Vote yes for jobs!

In Canada and Australia.

Nomis21

"We, the people of Éire,

Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial,"

About time that was deleted from the Constitution.

K4t

JamJamJamJam wrote: »

Does the constitution still refer to the role of women in the home? If so, that'll be easy to pass, so I'd say that will be soon. Perhaps at the same time as another referendum.

Vote No! (Family, Tradition, Redefining etc.)

catallus

Nomis21 wrote: »

"We, the people of Éire,

Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial,"

About time that was deleted from the Constitution.

:eek:

Why on earth would we remove the best part?

G_R

Two threads on this merged

joe swanson

What comes after ssm? I thought it was obvious.

A continued descent into moral depravity
.......


They'll be giving women the vote next and chaos will ensue.

SummerSummit

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Issue
Removing the requirement to criminalise blasphemy.

Convention recommendations
Replace with a ban on incitement to religious hatred.

Government response
In October 2014, junior minister Aodhán Ó Ríordáin said a referendum would be held after a decision has been taken on whether or how the proposed amendment should address incitement to religious hatred. In January 2015, the Taoiseach said a referendum would not be held in 2015, and he did not expect one before the next general election.

The convention can **** off. They were a bunch of useless morons.

Quite extraordinary how far Ireland have come when you think that even the idea of two people of the same sex having sexual relations twenty two years ago was illegal and now the union between two of the same sex has officially been legalised on the vote of the people

Real proof that civilisation and Irish society can really go places when we bang our heads together and see sense. Our society really is progressing and modernising. The scenes outside Dublin Castle yesterday were real Reeling in the years material that we will remember for years to come

Kiwi in IE

I think there should be a mega referendum!

The 8th Ammendment, Blasphemy, references to dieties in constitution and women in home nonsense. All at once!

Iona wouldn't have enough manpower to deal with all that and they would explode!

dxhound2005

SummerSummit wrote: »

The convention can **** off. They were a bunch of useless morons.

They have gone away y'know. Do you include Gerry, Mary Lou and the Deputy First Minister in those of a useless moronic disposition?

LorMal

Deleted User wrote: »

Quite extraordinary how far Ireland have come when you think that even the idea of two people of the same sex having sexual relations twenty two years ago was illegal and now the union between two of the same sex has officially been legalised on the vote of the people

Real proof that civilisation and Irish society can really go places when we bang our heads together and see sense. Our society really is progressing and modernising. The scenes outside Dublin Castle yesterday were real Reeling in the years material that we will remember for years to come

Jesus, the over the top drama and hype around this! We didn't just find the cure for Aids or world poverty or land a spaceship on Mars.
A small minority who could already have a civil union are now allowed to have a wedding day. Good. But let's keep it in a bit of perspective. It's getting ridiculous.

LorMal

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I think there should be a mega referendum!

The 8th Ammendment, Blasphemy, references to dieties in constitution and women in home nonsense. All at once!

Iona wouldn't have enough manpower to deal with all that and they would explode!

What 'women in the home' nonsense?

Btrippn

LorMal wrote: »

Jesus, the over the top drama and hype around this! We didn't just find the cure for Aids or world poverty or land a spaceship on Mars.
A small minority who could already have a civil union are now allowed to have a wedding day. Good. But let's keep it in a bit of perspective. It's getting ridiculous.

It's pure drama that's why it only made headline news on the New Yorker, the New York Times, the Economist, the international Japan Times, CNN, BBC etc. Unfortunatley it only received little coverage from the Daily Mail.

WoolyJumper

Abortion, assisted suicide, blasphemy, separation of church and state, removal of the reference of women's place in the home (could be easily tagged on to a ref on a bigger issue, like the presidential age)

Though, the thought Iona getting equal airtime on all these issues fills me with dread, especially a ref on abortion. Their behaviour was dreadful during the marriage referendum.

jill_valentine

WoolyJumper wrote: »

Though, the thought Iona getting equal airtime on all these issues fills me with dread, especially a ref on abortion. Their behaviour was dreadful during the marriage referendum.

Christ, my heart sinks thinking about it. It's going to be horrible. Necessary, but horrible.

To add to your list, I think fathers' rights do probably need a look, but sorting out the stupid "women's place in the home" bollockology can probably do a lot towards that end.

J DEERE

Fathers rights issue should have been tackled 20 years ago as a follow up on the divorce referendum. Reform is long overdue

jill_valentine

It will be interesting to see where Iona & Co are when that argument rears its head, given how concerned they all were about how vital both mammies and daddies are.

SpaceTime

Any chance we could possibly change the preamble to something reflective of a modern republic and not a theocracy or the start of Mass?

It actually sets out sovereignty as being from god and even name drops the "blessed trinity"!

Surely we should have a "by the people, of the people, for the people" type preamble?

There are also various lines in it about women and their special place in the home... They need to be scrapped and perhaps look at a clause supporting parents (of all varieties) if one is needed at all!

galljga1

J DEERE wrote: »

Fathers rights issue should have been tackled 20 years ago as a follow up on the divorce referendum. Reform is long overdue

Potentially, that means being on the same side as John Waters. After the nonsense he spewed and still continues to spew about SSM, that's a hard ask but the whole parents' 'rights' issues need sorting out. Whether we end up on the same side depends on how obtuse Waters wants to be, argumentative twat. Personally, I will support any campaign that supports the introduction of sensible rights.

_Kaiser_

LorMal wrote: »

Jesus, the over the top drama and hype around this! We didn't just find the cure for Aids or world poverty or land a spaceship on Mars.
A small minority who could already have a civil union are now allowed to have a wedding day. Good. But let's keep it in a bit of perspective. It's getting ridiculous.

Tend to agree.. the fact that we still have a load of these "what will we vote on next" threads clogging up AH shows just how overhyped this issue was - if only people took the same level of interest in local/general elections we might not be stuck with the same bunch of parochial, corrupt gombeens everytime!

Yes it's great that SSM was passed and everyone can have a wedding day but FFS.. enough is enough! For most people, others being gay hasn't been an issue for a LONG time now and for those who do have a problem with it, the outcome over the weekend isn't going to change that (except potentially alienate them further).

Anyway.. as mentioned by others, I'd like to see father's rights and unmarried couples addressed next (a group who in fact have been even more marginalised by the result on Saturday). A man basically has zero rights to his own child in this country unless the mother agrees, or they're married, which affects a hell of a lot more people than SSM, but somehow isn't "cool" enough to warrant a social media storm like we've seen over the last few weeks/months.

On the unmarried couples side, people are already assessed for things like welfare based on their relationship status, and you have the cohabitation bill which puts obligations of financial support on the bigger earner after x time.. but yet these people can't claim tax as a couple, automatic inheritance rights, life insurance if one partner dies etc.
"But sure get married then" I hear ye say.. that's one option but seeing as we're all about equality this week, why should people HAVE to if they're already in a committed relationship?

Archaic references to the Church, blasphemy and the "Woman's place" also need to go, but really the main thing I'd like to see in this country is an efficient and unintrusive Government.. that delivers the best value for the taxes it collects (rather than TDs treating it as disposable pocket money) and an end to the "nanny state" culture that has law after pointless law being legislated for.... of course the flip side is that people will have to start taking some responsibility (remember that?!) again - for their personal circumstances, financial affairs, civic responsibilities (again, get out and vote and demand change from those who represent you) etc.

Oh, and if these things must be done by referendum, then lets get through as many of them at once. Most people aren't so stupid that they can't grasp more than 1/2 issues at a time - but it would help if there was some way of banning political parties using it as a platform for electioneering as happened again this time.

LorMal

LorMal wrote: »

Jesus, the over the top drama and hype around this! We didn't just find the cure for Aids or world poverty or land a spaceship on Mars.
A small minority who could already have a civil union are now allowed to have a wedding day. Good. But let's keep it in a bit of perspective. It's getting ridiculous.

So glad you said this...... I couldn't agree more! I'm so tired of the non stop talk,debate , coverage. I deliberately didn't even buy the Sunday paper yesterday.

MOVE ON 😁

Pherekydes

After that result over the weekend, sales of KY jelly and vaseline will soar.






For butthurt Liverpool fans. :pac:

LorMal

Btrippn wrote: »

It's pure drama that's why it only made headline news on the New Yorker, the New York Times, the Economist, the international Japan Times, CNN, BBC etc. Unfortunatley it only received little coverage from the Daily Mail.

So does Jeremy Clarkson's sacking.

_Kaiser_

Pherekydes wrote: »

After that result over the weekend, sales of KY jelly and vaseline will soar.






For butthurt Liverpool fans. :pac:

As a Pool fan I have to admit, that made me laugh! :P Hopefully it's the final nail in Rodgers management career with the club.

Btrippn

LorMal wrote: »

So does Jeremy Clarkson's sacking.

I don't recall Ban Ki-koon and countless other world leaders praising the UK for the Jeremy Clarkson drama. When was the last time Ireland made worldwide news? What was the reason? I can't remember but most of us who lived through this referendum will never forget the occasion.

LorMal wrote: »

Jesus, the over the top drama and hype around this! We didn't just find the cure for Aids or world poverty or land a spaceship on Mars.
A small minority who could already have a civil union are now allowed to have a wedding day. Good. But let's keep it in a bit of perspective. It's getting ridiculous.

A small group of researchers can find a cure for Aids. A handful of astronauts could land a spaceship on Mars. These achievements are down to the people involved not the entire nation.

Being the first country to vote in favour of SSM with a 61% Yes vote as well as being the highest referendum turnout since 1932 in a country that is considered to be "predominantly Catholic" and "typically conservative" is a pretty huge deal.

Of course it's over the top drama, it's bound to be when there are gay people involved, but at the same time it's a historic and significant event whether you choose to acknowledge that or not.

LorMal

Btrippn wrote: »

I don't recall Ban Ki-koon and countless other world leaders praising the Jeremy Clarkson drama. When was the last time Ireland made worldwide news? What was the reason? I can't remember but most of us who lived through this referendum will never forget the occasion.



A small group of researchers can find a cure for Aids. A handful of astronauts could land a spaceship on Mars. These efforts are down to the people involved not the entire nation.

Being the first country to vote in favour of SSM with a 61% Yes vote as well as being the highest referendum turnout since 1932 in a country that is considered to be "predominantly Catholic" and "typically conservative" is a pretty huge deal.

Of course it's over the top drama, it's bound to be when there are gay people involved, but at the same time it's a historic and significant event whether you acknowledge that or not.

Give yourself an enormous clap on the back there. You were amazing. Look, Ellen even sent a tweet to congratulate Ireland and so did One Direction!! We are amazing. The whole world is in awe of us. Every single person in the world. Go Ireland. First there was a rugby match with England in Croke Park, now this. Historic!!! Momentous!!! We have no self esteem issues whatsoever!! The world wishes it was Irish. 500 million gay people will travel to Ireland next year to get married. We are a beacon to the world.
Or maybe it's all a bit OTT

Btrippn

LorMal wrote: »

Give yourself an enormous clap on the back there. You were amazing. Look, Ellen even sent a tweet to congratulate Ireland and so did One Direction!! We are amazing. The whole world is in awe of us. Every single person in the world. Go Ireland. First there was a rugby match with England in Croke Park, now this. Historic!!! Momentous!!! We have no self esteem issues whatsoever!! The world wishes it was Irish. 500 million gay people will travel to Ireland next year to get married. We are a beacon to the world.
Or maybe it's all a bit OTT

I'm just saying major positive news is hard to come by in Ireland, just watch the 6 o'clock news, and it's great that the rest of the world can celebrate with us including Ellen as well as thousands of others. Ireland's by no means perfect but we tend to be very modest and occasional pride never hurts.

I question your self-esteem and your sense of subtle sarcasm, are you even from Ireland?

LorMal

Btrippn wrote: »

I'm just saying major positive news is hard to come by in Ireland, just watch the 6 o'clock news, and it's great that the rest of the world can celebrate with us including Ellen as well as thousands of others. Ireland's by no means perfect but we tend to be very modest and occasional pride never hurts.

I question your self-esteem and your sense of subtle sarcasm, are you even from Ireland?

Nothing subtle about my sarcasm there! My point is that we are like attention seeking, people pleasing 9 year olds.
I am okay with the referendum result. Gay people can get married. Grand.
But it's mainly a distraction. We have the highest levels of debt in the world. Families are being made homeless. Our health service is dire. Our infrastructure is poor. Our unemployment rate is too high. People are really suffering.
But hooray for Panty Bliss!!!

Btrippn

LorMal wrote: »

Nothing subtle about my sarcasm there! My point is that we are like attention seeking, people pleasing 9 year olds.
I am okay with the referendum result. Gay people can get married. Grand.
But it's mainly a distraction. We have the highest levels of debt in the world. Families are being made homeless. Our health service is dire. Our infrastructure is poor. Our unemployment rate is too high. People are really suffering.
But hooray for Panty Bliss!!!

And you referred to me as OTT. Three maybe 4 days of celebration is going to cause harm how? People are reminded of these issues every other day of the year a little positive news is a good "distraction". Gay people are included in those people who have had to suffer. One problem at a time we'll get there eventually.

circadian

I was hoping this end of the world lark would have begun by now but instead I'm sitting in work. A good old Zombie outbreak would have been good, I feel cheated by the doomsdayers.

Wait, maybe this IS the end of the world. An eternity of being bored off me tits.

LorMal

Btrippn wrote: »

And you referred to me as OTT. Three maybe 4 days of celebration is going to cause harm how? People are reminded of these issues every other day of the year a little positive news is a good "distraction". Gay people are included in those people who have had to suffer. One problem at a time we'll get there eventually.

Look, its grand. I don't mean to be a killjoy. But we now have the Labour Party calling for more referendums. (Enda will be next)
Why? Because they get to look all open, trendy and inclusive or whatever. And it helps them to cover over the cracks.
I don't like the relentless bad news either. And I am genuinely pleased for the small number of real gay people who have really wanted to get married but couldn't.
However, the hype is ridiculous and the bandwagon jumping is hilarious. Young people who actually don't give a rats arse about marriage are all full hyped up pride and joy that Gay people can marry.
And Panty Bliss can generally just **** off with himself .
We really are such an insular, self regarding nation.

goose2005

Nomis21 wrote: »

"We, the people of Éire,

Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial,"

About time that was deleted from the Constitution.

I don't know. Always good to open with a joke.

SpaceTime

Honestly, don't knock the importance of this referendum. While the marriage aspect is a big deal what has been a much bigger deal is that a whole lot of Irish people now feel their country actually stands along side them and accepts them because most of the electorate was willing to vote for them.

If you're straight and also don't have any close gay friends or relatives I could see how maybe that significance might be a bit lost on you but for the rest of us it was enormous.

You're talking about a situation where people hid a big part of themselves for decades. People denied themselves a partner and went around afraid or ashamed of who they were. It caused depression and even high suicide rates.

This was *a huge* deal for a lot of people and many of them are the people you may never have known were gay.

Honestly to just pretend this is all about high drama is failing to understand what actually happened on Saturday. There were people literally crying when the results came in - for a lot of Irish people (probably many more than you'll ever see in a gay pride parade or in the Panti Bar or other venues around Ireland) this was an absolutely massive deal.

Hermy

murpho999 wrote: »

Go read up. Fifth amendment of the constitution removed that in 1973.

See Fifth Amendment

Many people don't believe this but Ireland is officially a secular state.

Given what's in the preamble I can understand why some people might not believe it.

In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred,
We, the people of Éire,
Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial,
Gratefully remembering their heroic and unremitting struggle to regain the rightful independence of our Nation,
And seeking to promote the common good, with due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be assured, true social order attained, the unity of our country restored, and concord established with other nations,
Do hereby adopt, enact, and give to ourselves this Constitution.

And the preamble is just one example of how outdated our constitution is.
The whole thing needs redrafting to recognise the society we currently live in.

Btrippn

LorMal wrote: »

Look, its grand. I don't mean to be a killjoy. But we now have the Labour Party calling for more referendums. (Enda will be next)
Why? Because they get to look all open, trendy and inclusive or whatever. And it helps them to cover over the cracks.
I don't like the relentless bad news either. And I am genuinely pleased for the small number of real gay people who have really wanted to get married but couldn't.
However, the hype is ridiculous and the bandwagon jumping is hilarious. Young people who actually don't give a rats arse about marriage are all full hyped up pride and joy that Gay people can marry.
And Panty Bliss can generally just **** off with himself .
We really are such an insular, self regarding nation.

So you want things to change yet your not in favour of referendums, how does that work?

Have you considered running for TD or perhaps emigrating from this insular, self regarding nation?

SpaceTime

Hermy wrote: »

Given what's in the preamble I can understand why some people might not believe it.



And the preamble is just one example of how outdated our constitution is.
The whole thing needs redrafting to recognise the society we currently live in.

Have a read of the French constitution sometime! It sets out with passion what a genuine republic is.

The Irish one retains many of the British monarchy type elements, particularly trying to figure out sovereignty in that context as being from God rather than from the people. That's basically just a snapshot of how the writers thought because the King or Queen in a UK context is defined that way.

Remember too that when that constitution came into being, Ireland wasn't a republic either.

Maybe it's time we actually updated it to genuinely reflect that and remove the references to Devine power etc and replace them with people power? That's the reality anyway.

I honestly don't think some of our "founding fathers" got or liked the concept of a republic. There's a lot more to it than just "Not British". Being a republic is quite a strong statement that you're going to run things by government the people, for the people and of the people and that it's the people who are ultimately sovereign and nobody else.

What we've ended up with is a snapshot of 1937 where Ireland still hadn't figured itself out. It's a mishmash of vestiges of the British system, attempts to establish a state official church while still enshrining religious freedom in the same breath.

I just think it needs a fairly major overhaul to reflect something lot more enlightened and forward thinking which is where Ireland actually now is.

wakka12

Deleted User wrote: »

So glad you said this...... I couldn't agree more! I'm so tired of the non stop talk,debate , coverage. I deliberately didn't even buy the Sunday paper yesterday.

MOVE ON 😁

I get what you mean but it meant a lot to the lgbt people and close friends and family of lgbt people who do actually make up a large percentage of the population when combined

wakka12

Also I think an immigration referendum is in order, the european Union has vowed to rescue thousands of refugees from the Mediterranean and I think the public will need to be asked about the issue, and whether we feel we should help with these refugees or not.

Huntergonzo

We need to make a lot of changes, this is a manifesto I wouldn't mind seeing (off the top of my head):

1. Get rid of our ridiculous blasphemy law = who cares anyway for jaysus sake?

2. Legalize weed = I don't even smoke cigarettes myself but the ban on weed is a hopeless waste of time.

3. Legalize some 'other drugs' = we can thrash this one out, perhaps while on some drugs :-)

4. Abortion on demand = This is a no brainer, I'm a man so I'm not likely to have an abortion anytime soon but it's a woman's choice and it's extremely unfair to say otherwise!

5. Religion OUT of schools and the constitution = needs no explanation.

6. Legalize euthanasia = sometimes people just want to go for various reasons, we should let them go peacefully.

7. Round the clock drinkin' = sorry who the f*** are you to tell me I can't buy a drink past 2.30 in the morning on weekends?...4.30 in coppers of course.

8. Regulate Prostitution = ah the world's oldest trade, completely unstoppable so no point in trying to swim against the tide, offer women protection not prosecution.

jonnny68

i think getting rid of the water charges needs to be the main focus for now, we are being absolutely robbed blind by this government.

jonnny68

Huntergonzo wrote: »

We need to make a lot of changes, this is a manifesto I wouldn't mind seeing (off the top of my head):

1. Get rid of our ridiculous blasphemy law = who cares anyway for jaysus sake?

2. Legalize weed = I don't even smoke cigarettes myself but the ban on weed is a hopeless waste of time.

3. Legalize some 'other drugs' = we can thrash this one out, perhaps while on some drugs :-)

4. Abortion on demand = This is a no brainer, I'm a man so I'm not likely to have an abortion anytime soon but it's a woman's choice and it's extremely unfair to say otherwise!

5. Religion OUT of schools and the constitution = needs no explanation.

6. Legalize euthanasia = sometimes people just want to go for various reasons, we should let them go peacefully.

7. Round the clock drinkin' = sorry who the f*** are you to tell me I can't buy a drink past 2.30 in the morning on weekends?...4.30 in coppers of course.

8. Regulate Prostitution = ah the world's oldest trade, completely unstoppable so no point in trying to swim against the tide, offer women protection not prosecution.

agreed on all these points

Herb Powell

LorMal wrote: »

However, the hype is ridiculous and the bandwagon jumping is hilarious. Young people who actually don't give a rats arse about marriage are all full hyped up pride and joy that Gay people can marry.
And Panty Bliss can generally just **** off with himself .
We really are such an insular, self regarding nation.

That's not fair. You don't have to give a **** about marriage itself to be excited that a subset of your fellow citizens are finally being afforded the same rights as everyone else.

mariaalice

Herb Powell wrote: »

That's not fair. You don't have to give a **** about marriage itself to be excited that a subset of your fellow citizens are finally being afforded the same rights as everyone else.

What you don't understand is that while the no side has officially accepted the yes vote because they had too, behind that they cant accept the yes vote so they are scrambling around for any reason that the yes won, any reason except for the one about people feeling its the right thing to do or concerns about justice and fairness.

So

You get everything from conspiracies about where the yes sides money came from, to mad stuff about voter fraud, to blaming the naiveté of the youth vote anything except the reality of the situation.