Advice on making offer for a house

blueredface

Hi there,

I always get good response from boards.ie when I have any confusion daily life matter and feels like it is a family who listen me and respond. I have quick question as below:

I'm interested in a small house which has been on market for the last two months and after more than a month, the EA / Landlord reduce the asking price minus 2.5% of the original advertised price.

I wasn't interested initially when it was advertised due to unrealistic high asking price as per location and size of the house but when I saw price slightly reduced, I then went for viewing the house. House look very attractive on pictures on website but when I visited, the size look smaller than expected.

The house is currently occupied by Tenant and not in a great condition e.g. dirty blinds, out of shape small garden. sheet on kitchen floor instead of proper wooden floor. Appliances in kitchen are not in good condition either. Need paint etc. etc.

So overall current condition of house is far from turn key and need money to spend before someone can move into house.

I emailed EA with my offer i.e. 15% less than asking price with above point explained / my findings & he came back saying "owner won’t accept an offer anywhere near this level". I then asked, could he check with owner what would be the last price owner can sell it for so if there is no big difference between my offer and owner's last price, we might rethink? The EA further replied "Vendor doesn't think has much flexibility on the price. If you want to make a higher offer please advise" and concluded the email.

I also checked the price register and mentioned to EA that in similar location, similar size house was sold 25% lower than this house late last year and another house kind of same or slightly smaller size/location was sold 30% cheaper couple of months ago but EA keeps insisting he sold similar asking price/size of house month ago as this one.

I don't love this house but its just because I cannot afford expensive house and if I can get it at reasonable price would be happy as I know I have to spend some money before I move.

EA didn't mention if he has received any other offer more than my offer.

Would you please advise how should I make offer so I don't have to pay unreasonable asking price as per current condition of house? or should I wait more and see ?
I'm not a desperate buyer to buy at any non sense asking price but still prefer to buy as soon as possible at right price / condition / location.

In the light of above points and finding, what do you think the EA/Vendor would be more flexible to come closer to my offer or how would I make further offer in a way that I can get this house less than asking price because house is really not in condition as per asking price?

Thanking you with best regards.

riclad

The ea can advise the seller,but its the sellers right to set the price .
He may have a large mortgage ,that he needs to pay off.
see is there any other houses for sale ,of a similar size ,in the area,
what are they going for .
painting a small house does not cost much.
you cant presume to get fridge, washiing machine etc when buying a house .
The seller may take em, even if they are in bad condition.
Every sale is different .
Maybe wait a few weeks, and make a offer ,say 5 per cent less than asking price.
IF you want a small cheap house ,look on daft.ie ,myhome.ie
houses under x price .
OLD houses with old windows single glazed , that need modernisation, redecoration ,
are usually cheaper ,than a house thats 10 years old.
eg house for example where owner has passed away,
is being sold by family .

my friend bought house, got no appliances .
Apart from the window curtains , the kitchen presses ,the house was empty .When he moved in.
All the ads i see on daft.ie etc list room sizes , and house size .
Basically the seller decides the sale price,
maybe he needs x amount to buy the house he is moving into,
or has to pay off the mortgage .
IF he has a loan the bank can say ,you need to get at least x amount for the sale to go thru.

ITS unlikely the ea will tell you the reason he is selling the house .

blueredface

riclad wrote: »

The ea can advise the seller,but its the sellers right to set the price .
He may have a large mortgage ,that he needs to pay off.
see is there any other houses for sale ,of a similar size ,in the area,
what are they going for .
painting a small house does not cost much.
you cant presume to get fridge, washiing machine etc when buying a house .
The seller may take em, even if they are in bad condition.
Every sale is different .
Maybe wait a few weeks, and make a offer ,say 5 per cent less than asking price.
IF you want a small cheap house ,look on daft.ie ,myhome.ie
houses under x price .
OLD houses with old windows single glazed , that need modernisation, redecoration ,
are usually cheaper ,than a house thats 10 years old.
eg house for example where owner has passed away,
is being sold by family .

my friend bought house, got no appliances .
Apart from the window curtains , the kitchen presses ,the house was empty .When he moved in.
All the ads i see on daft.ie etc list room sizes , and house size .
Basically the seller decides the sale price,
maybe he needs x amount to buy the house he is moving into,
or has to pay off the mortgage .
IF he has a loan the bank can say ,you need to get at least x amount for the sale to go thru.

ITS unlikely the ea will tell you the reason he is selling the house .

Hi riclad, Thanks for your reply.
Would that mean if landlord needs x amount to buy house or to pay off mortgage or to pay loan, he/she can ask more than current value and condition of his/her house than market?
I've seen a good house nearby having similar size but clean and in good condition with just 1% more than this property price and that's why I offered 15% less than asking price because of its current condition and risk of tenant won't leave quickly at the time of sale agreed?

Thanks.

riclad

You Could maybe look up public records,
say owner bought house 30 years ago theres probably no mortgage on the house.
he can ask for any price,
the value of a house is what some will pay for it .
SAY it costs 90k to build a house,plus site value.
anything over that is really the amount you pay to live in santry.
as opposed to living in cavan .
Thats why in 2006 people were paying 150k for a house in cavan,
which is now worth 70k.
A house is advertised for sale , with a tenant,
the tenant may have a right to live there for another year or more,
depending on when the tenancy started ,
the tenant has rights .
see the property register,
what did house s in the area ,sell for in 2014 ,
in the last year.
With the new deposit rule ,some people cant afford to buy a house in
area x,
cos they need 30k saved to buy a house listed at 120k.
I dont think a house being clean has much effect on the sale price ,
as long as the house structure is ok,
eg roof is in good nick, no dry rot in walls etc
Most people may have to bid on 3 or more house,s before they actually
find a house to live in .
lets say a house is advertised for 140k,
in dublin, if the ea says to you seller will not accept any offer under
120k, i would tend to believe him.
BUT you can look at other houses for sale ,and the property price register ,
to check the house value .

Many people would not bid on a house with a tenant as they want to
move in,
unless they are told tenant will move out in say 6 months ,or when the house is sold .
a person who is looking for an investment will have no problem bidding
on a house with a tenant living there .

There,s no rule re what price can i ask on a house ,
but its usually at least 75 per cent of the mortgage,
if the seller can cover the other 25 per cent out of his own savings.
A House with a tenant maybe dirty,
but that will probably have no effect on the price the house is sold for .

CIARAN_BOYLE

yoh dont know the circumstances and strategies behind either asking price. One could be asking for 100k but planning to ignite a bidding war and is not intending to sell for less than 120.

The other might be unsure if they want to sell and have high asking price on the house relative to its condition and only be willing to sell if they get this even though they are not sure they will get it.

riclad

Lets say its going for 135k,IF you can afford 120, and think its worth 120k, offer 120k .
Are you getting a mortgage,
have you basic approval to borrow say 130k.
I,M using 120 as an example, sounds like you can afford 120,
so you are hoping you,ll get it for 120.
But maybe you cant get a loan of 135k at the moment .
if you dont want the fridge ,cooker etc
say i,ll offer x amount,
i don,t care if i get the fridge ,cooker ,washing machine /dryer.
if you can find out when the house was bought ,you can work out how much the owner paid for it .
I don.t think in most cases the condition of washing machine,fridge etc will effect the price of a house ,
look on daft.ie ,houses under 140k .

blueredface

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

yoh dont know the circumstances and strategies behind either asking price. One could be asking for 100k but planning to ignite a bidding war and is not intending to sell for less than 120.

The other might be unsure if they want to sell and have high asking price on the house relative to its condition and only be willing to sell if they get this even though they are not sure they will get it.

I agree with Ciaran, some house advertise at really attractive and reasonable price and end up with high bidding as people first see the price and rush to view it. That is the good strategy is being used by most of EA which I personally like it.

I've seen another house of similar location and size but vacant and some extra come at same price what this house I'm try to bid. EA who is showing other good house has no appointment for more people to accomodate as friend of mine rang but was told by EA will contact him if he find space & was never called back by EA even after more than a week. its just that house is in good condition and more people are viewing.

This house has been on market over two months now and I presume it hasn't received either bid properly or hasn't received what I have bid i.e. 15% lower than asking price otherwise, EA would have told me he has higher bid than mine and that what EA always do.

Lets come to point which hasn't be answered how do I know indirectly / directly what could be the last price that Vendor / EA can sell for so I will reach it without wasting time. I know EA is also trying to find out what is my maximum bid for this which I really don't want to disclose unless I know what is his/her last price so we both come closer to each other's final offer/price. I would be interested to maximum 5% more mean, I would be happy to have it 10% less than asking price which I what I would worth that house as I don't want to jump quickly toward asking price or don't want to keep away from his last price so I will loose this deal. This is not a dream house due to its current condition but I can't afford any expensive or what EA is asking?

Since, I have offered 15% lower than asking, how should I move on slowly to keep EA/Vendor's interest in mine as buyer?

Please advise?

riclad

ITS the ea ,s job to get the best price,
he might say ,seller won,t accept less than price x,
You can look at other houses for sale, same size, similar area.look at price register ,
then decide its worth x price, bid x price maybe in 3 weeks.
the seller will tell the ea , i want price x.
SO the ea may not any bid under price x.

no point in worrying about ea,s interest , the ea will accept any bid as long as its
close to price x set by the seller.
if u think its worth 120 k, and can afford it bid 120k.
if its advertised for 130 ,ea may accept 120.
of course anyone can come along and bid higher than you .
you can put in 2 or 3 bids over the course of a month if u wish.
the ea might say ,seller will not accept less than price x,
That,s all he can do 4 you,
he can accept or reject a bid .
my advice is offer say 7 per cent less than asking price in a week or 2.

Buying a house is not like buying a car or a pc ,there,s no set price.
most sellers will try and get the best price,
most people wont bid on a house that has a tenant in it.
if theres other houses in the area they can buy ,with vacant possession,
ie no one lives there, apart from the seller.

mirrormatrix

It's fairly simple. Decide what you are willing to pay and make increasing offers up to that price. If 10 % less than asking is the max. you are willing to pay for this property, then offer in increments up to that max and then walk away. No point telling EA what other properties have gone for in the area, they are well aware of that. In fact, it's their job to know this information.

Having said that, you might be in a position to negotiate if you can state that:

- You are a first time buyer (i.e. no property to sell and can conclude deal straight away)
- You are planning to pay cash

EA will never tell you what price vendor will accept. That's not the way this process works.

Lu Tze

If you are planning to get a mortage to part fund it, there could be an issue if it isnt vacant.

riclad

There are always small 1 or 2 bed houses which come on the market,
with a small yard at the back,
which tend to cheaper than a 3bed semi d.
i think theres an allsopp auction coming up soon which features houses in dublin.
http://www.allsopireland.ie/

The next auction in the RDS, Dublin 4 will be held on Wednesday 8th July and Thursday 9th July 2015.

riclad

IF you are buying this house with cash, or say a small loan,
let the ea know this.
say offer 120,
if offer is rejected, offer 124 k in a week.
if you buy a house at auction, you offer say 100k, if your offer is accepted thats it the house is yours.
each house has a reserve, eg 90k, u must offer over 90k to buy this house.
But you need to pay a deposit ,and have some documents to show you can afford to buy the house.
some sellers prefer a cash buyer,
eg theres no delay with bank loan approval etc
if theres a tenant living there some banks may classify this as an btl mortgage ,which has a higher interest rate.

AS i said ea might say, buyer wont accept less than x amount .
house being messy etc may be good news 4 you ,as it may put off other prospective buyers .

kaloshma

It is a house you will be leaving in for quite sometime. So i advice you again buying the house if you believe the price is not right.
Each time you wake up and notice something bad about the house, you will always blame yourself for it.

blueredface

Hi,

Due to house size and condition, I initially offered 30k less than asking.
I went back to EA after a week today and offered him 10k more than what I offered initially as he asked me to advise him the higher offer saying he doesn't think Vendor has much flexibility on the price. Now difference is 20k.

EA keep asking me the higher offer every time I ask him what would be last price Vendor is willing to sell which I have already raised 10 k from my first offer but the last word he said Vendor is willing to sell at Asking price. So, no flexibility from Vendor.
Can I ask how long a vendor can wait for asking price as house is currently tenant occupied and has been on market over 2 and half months (70 days) now and I don't think if anybody has bid/offered more than me otherwise, EA would have told me he has already x amount of offer but EA is reluctant to tell the last price that Vendor can sell or Vendor isn't flexible.

I understand if the house is in turn key or nearly turn key condition than it could be sold at asking price within month or so with no problem but what if house condition isn't in great condition due to tenant occupied and EA is not receiving any bid closer to asking price as I've already offered him 20k less than asking. Is that because, vendor is not serious to sell as vendor is receiving rent from tenant?

There was another property in better condition which he shown me week & half ago which when I asked its status he said been sale agreed 8k more than asking price which I don't know if he was telling truth or not as I can't see any update status on property websites or even EA own website if its under negotiation or sale agreed.

The last word I replied in email that if vendor show flexibility in asking price, do inform me to rethink.

What do you think about this as this is not ideal house to move but is not bad if there is no other choice and would be great to get at lower than asking price as price register tells similar size and location property was sold 6 months ago 45k cheaper (30% less) than this.

Would that mean property prices have gone up 30% in just 6 months or is it EA created bubble or EA taking advantage of shortage of property stock? Could we hope for more property stock in near future in Dublin/Ireland and would that prevent the property bubble and ease the price?

Would appreciate your feedback.

riclad

You don,t know the sellers situation,
is he buying another house ,
has he got a large mortgage ,On the house for sale .
is he moving in with some one, .
Hes renting the house,
lets say his loan is 120k,
he,ll need to sell house for 120k
or say sell for 100, throw in 20k of his own money to pay off the bank.

HE may have 2 mortgages,
house 4 sale,
house where he lives .
i know woman ,
with 2 mortgages .
lived in house 1.
put house 2 for sale ,
House was empty for 2 years until she got an offer 90k.
that the bank was happy with.
she was offered 85k,
bank said its not enough.
house sold 2 years later for 90k.

My advice is wait 1 month, put in another offer .
In the next 5 years there maybe a few 100 council houses built,
also some high spec luxury apartments .

neither will have any significant effect on prices in dublin.

Make another offer in a month.say another 5k,

offer what u think the house is worth ,
IF you really want this house you may have to pay the asking price .

it sounds like to me you want to live in area x,

And this house is the only one within your price range ,
on sale in the area at present .

SO it really suits you if you could make a deal on it .
i know a certain area,
houses come up for sale there once every 3months.

OR think is there a small house ,needs redecoration , or small renovation,
thats within my price range within 2 miles of this area .
look on daft.ie , myhome.ie ,

The bank can say you will need at least ,say 120k,
otherwise we will not allow house to be sold ,for less than that.

maybe you could find out when did he buy the house from your lawyer .

Then post here ,house was bought in 98,
what,s the average price in 1998 for a 2bed house .

if house is sale agreed ,why is an agent showing it to you .
IT should be taken off the market .

bohsfan

blueredface wrote: »

Hi,

Due to house size and condition, I initially offered 30k less than asking.
I went back to EA after a week today and offered him 10k more than what I offered initially as he asked me to advise him the higher offer saying he doesn't think Vendor has much flexibility on the price. Now difference is 20k.

EA keep asking me the higher offer every time I ask him what would be last price Vendor is willing to sell which I have already raised 10 k from my first offer but the last word he said Vendor is willing to sell at Asking price. So, no flexibility from Vendor.
Can I ask how long a vendor can wait for asking price as house is currently tenant occupied and has been on market over 2 and half months (70 days) now and I don't think if anybody has bid/offered more than me otherwise, EA would have told me he has already x amount of offer but EA is reluctant to tell the last price that Vendor can sell or Vendor isn't flexible.

I understand if the house is in turn key or nearly turn key condition than it could be sold at asking price within month or so with no problem but what if house condition isn't in great condition due to tenant occupied and EA is not receiving any bid closer to asking price as I've already offered him 20k less than asking. Is that because, vendor is not serious to sell as vendor is receiving rent from tenant?

There was another property in better condition which he shown me week & half ago which when I asked its status he said been sale agreed 8k more than asking price which I don't know if he was telling truth or not as I can't see any update status on property websites or even EA own website if its under negotiation or sale agreed.

The last word I replied in email that if vendor show flexibility in asking price, do inform me to rethink.

What do you think about this as this is not ideal house to move but is not bad if there is no other choice and would be great to get at lower than asking price as price register tells similar size and location property was sold 6 months ago 45k cheaper (30% less) than this.

Would that mean property prices have gone up 30% in just 6 months or is it EA created bubble or EA taking advantage of shortage of property stock? Could we hope for more property stock in near future in Dublin/Ireland and would that prevent the property bubble and ease the price?

Would appreciate your feedback.

Put yourself in the EA's shoes. Why would they tell you what the base price is? It's not in their interest. Plus, a seller might not even have a figure in mind and is just waiting to see what happens.

You're interested in the property. You will likely have a figure in mind that you happy to pay. Why not offer this and stress to the EA that this is your final offer, you're not into playing games and dragging things out. Let the seller think about it and see what happens. If they aren't happy to accept then you are talking about going to a figure you aren't happy with anyway, so nothing lost.

El_Dangeroso

Don't bid against yourself and don't buy a house you don't love. It's like marrying a partner you don't love, except it's probably a bigger commitment.

blueredface

Hi there,

I have started looking to buy house in March this year and an advertisement came infront of my eyes in first week of April this year. Initially property was advertised in November 2014 and came back to market as was sale agreed previously.
Ea told me it was sale agreed higher than current asking price but due to bidder couldn't get approved his mortgage in end, property came back to market again after 5 months (I don't know if its the truth or something else), so I viewed the property 3 weeks ago where total 4 people came to view this property while I was there.

I asked couple of question to concern person in Estate Agency by email but didn't hear from them after a week as the concern EA was on holidays. I was called after a week for my feedback which I told I haven't heard from them about my queries. So concern EA rang me and said if I'm interested, I can make offer which I made 10k lower than asking price which EA range the vendor immediately and rang me back within 30 minutes saying vendor didn't accept it.

So I wait for another week and rang to enquire about 2nd property advertised by same EA which I viewed within a week whereas property one was on open view same day which I noticed only 1 person turned up to view 1st property during 2nd time of open view.

Following week, I rang and emailed to enquire about 2nd property but at the same time I said, since I haven't heard from you for the property one, can I make an offer for 2nd one I viewed which EA said why don't I increase my first offer by 5k (still 5k less than asking price) and she can talk to vendor again. I said, I'm already tight to this offer but if she insists, I can add 1k more from my last offer (now 9k difference from asking price) which EA rang again vendor but same answer that Vendor is looking for asking price atleast.

EA also told me after my first bid that would she contact me if she get higher bid which I said yes, do let me know. EA had another open view (third time since I started) last weekend but I haven't heard from them today (Monday) if they have received any bid over mine.

I've been watching the price changes on the properties I have been interested in have slightly decreased the price (5 to 7%) advertised since January but not this one I'm interested in. I also noticed stock has also been increased.
I don't want to put myself in over optimistic situation that market is going to be in favor of buyers again as I have already wasted time by watching only last year when my mortgage was not approved as I wasn't serious to apply. At the same time, my concern is that I don't want to be in BID WAR situation that if I straight away make an offer same as asking price as vendor might think he/she could wait for further or unlimited time to get more price than asking what he/she got last year. I want to buy asap and try to avoid this bid war.

Please advise, should I hope that prices are going down bit and could wait a little bit more before I can talk to EA again but best bet is how would I know how desperate / ready is vendor to agree the sale as quickly as possible lower than asking as I'm bit tight about funds as this house is nearly empty and only include kitchen appliances and curtains?
Even if I bid close to asking price, can I say I can offer closer to asking price provided if bed/mattress and furniture could be included in asking price. (Something Is Better Then Nothing)

Thanks in advance.

P.s: if a property has been sale agreed and presuming the survey/valuation would have been done by first bidder, can we ask Vendor/EA if they have any Valuation/Survey report during the first sale agreed process so we would have an idea if there's no issue with this property itself structure wise or any other major fault?