Stella Maris Hotel Kilkee objects to Planning to renovate homes to former glory.

Sully777

A most unusual move by the Stella Maris Hotel in Kilkee to object to the planning permission to the former Clar Ella in the West End that has been practically falling down since it was sold almost 10 years ago.

Why would a local successful hotelier object the the renovation of this structure which is in an appalling condition and call for it to be used as an "owner occupied B & B"? Amazing when you think Water Edge B & B 200 feet away is now on the market? Also given the Hotels and B & B's that have closed this story has more to it than meets the eye.

REF: Planning application details ref: 15177 (Clare County Council )

Palmach

Sully777 wrote: »

A most unusual move by the Stella Maris Hotel in Kilkee to object to the planning permission to the former Clar Ella in the West End that has been practically falling down since it was sold almost 10 years ago.

Why would a local successful hotelier object the the renovation of this structure which is in an appalling condition and call for it to be used as an "owner occupied B & B"? Amazing when you think Water Edge B & B 200 feet away is now on the market? Also given the Hotels and B & B's that have closed this story has more to it than meets the eye.

REF: Planning application details ref: 15177 (Clare County Council )

Clár Ellagh is identified in thew Kilkee town plan as an "opportunity site". In other words it can be sued as a hotel/hostel or some such outfit. There are enough holiday homes in Kilkee and it is madness to allow a possible hotel/hotel to be changed into holiday homes. There is a shortage of tourist accommodation in Kilkee so I am glad to see objections.

kilburn

Is there not an empty hotel already?

It was granted planning previously for apartments.

knockon

Palmach wrote: »

Clár Ellagh is identified in thew Kilkee town plan as an "opportunity site". In other words it can be sued as a hotel/hostel or some such outfit. There are enough holiday homes in Kilkee and it is madness to allow a possible hotel/hotel to be changed into holiday homes. There is a shortage of tourist accommodation in Kilkee so I am glad to see objections.

Really - just because the development plan says so??....why are these all closed, out of business or selling up?

Waters Edge - For Sale
Hostel for 42 persons on O Curry Street - For sale
Kilkee Bay - Low occupancy and taken over by another operator
Ocean Cove Hotel - Closed
Halpins Hotel - Closed
Strand B & B - Closed a significant time of the year

Numerous B & B's - Closed.

You cant force demand by forcing supply.

There is something to this story as it appears that Mrs Stella Maris was bidding on the property herself. Silly move from business people. A number of people I spoke to think its very bad form to object to the renovation of a building in decay because you were outbid and will not be using the hotel for that reason.

SILVAMAN

Having problem with the plug in from Clare COCO to view files!

Palmach

knockon wrote: »

Really - just because the development plan says so??....why are these all closed, out of business or selling up?

Waters Edge - For Sale Owners retiring
Hostel for 42 persons on O Curry Street - For sale looking for too much money even in the good times
Kilkee Bay - Low occupancy and taken over by another operator Now opena dn busy
Ocean Cove Hotel - Closed Nama own and are trying to sell it
Halpins Hotel - Closed Owner in liquidation
Strand B & B - Closed a significant time of the year open at least six months of the year

Numerous B & B's - Closed.

You cant force demand by forcing supply. .

There is something to this story as it appears that Mrs Stella Maris was bidding on the property herself. Silly move from business people. A number of people I spoke to think its very bad form to object to the renovation of a building in decay because you were outbid and will not be using the hotel for that reason.

You cannot allow everything to be turned into holiday homes in the town centre. The town would dead 9 months of the year

JCX BXC

The ocean cove is a great property with so much potential. You could really market it as a holiday hotel. Throw in a few surfing lessons/family sea fun equivalent as well as a nice swim in Kilkee Waterworld into a few great packages and the result: a well-defined winner all through the year!

If only the people of kilkee spent more time investing and opening hotels rather than Take-aways.......

Red Clover

Ocean Cove Hotel is up for sale again so maybe some progressive hotelier will take it over. The problem Kilkee has is that the Seaside Renewal Tax Scheme let to a lot of building purely for investment purposes but when the 10 year tax break was up these developers, with no hotel experience, lost interest. There is a shortage of overnight hotel, guesthouse and B&B accommodation in the town because some of these premises are closed. Clar Ellagh was a very good hotel-type accommodation but the owners fell for the obscene money which they were offered (€2.25 million) but the tourism collapse came before the new owners could do anything with it. They sold it on for one third of the price. Kilkee has seen enough of speculative developers. What is needed is genuine tourist-orientated investors with the experience and know-how to run a good business.

Sully777

Red Clover wrote: »

but the tourism collapse came before the new owners could do anything with it.

What tourism collapse are you referring to?

Overseas visitors increased from 6.56 to 6.68 Million between 2009 and 2013 and the domestic visitors decreasing slightly.

Clar Ella was never good hotel accommodation. It was dormitory style with no ensuite facilities that was accommodation for the Christian Fellowship based in Ulster. The place is falling down internally and requires major renovation.

People are now looking to change this dilapidated structure into the way it was prior to the 1940's by changing them back into the homes that they were.

The Stella Hotel has by all accounts lost a significant amount of business already due to planning objections by them (Family dinner last weekend by a friends cousin as some of the family expressed reservations about booking there and booked Murphy Blacks instead).

Red Clover

[QUOTE=Sully777;95885223

"The Stella Hotel has by all accounts lost a significant amount of business already due to planning objections by them (Family dinner last weekend by a friends cousin as some of the family expressed reservations about booking there and booked Murphy Blacks instead).[/QUOTE]"

Do I detect a veiled threat to the business of the Stella Maris Hotel because the owners legitimately objected to what they and many others consider an undesirable development harking back to the rampant speculation of the pre-crash Ireland? By all accounts Stella Maris has lost no business except maybe a handful of speculators involved in converting commercial premises into private housing for use one or two months in the year.

Sully777

Red Clover wrote: »

"

Do I detect a veiled threat to the business of the Stella Maris Hotel because the owners legitimately objected to what they and many others consider an undesirable development harking back to the rampant speculation of the pre-crash Ireland? By all accounts Stella Maris has lost no business except maybe a handful of speculators involved in converting commercial premises into private housing for use one or two months in the year.

Don't put words in my mouth. No threats ...just relating what people I know did. I would agree with you if that were the real reason but....They (Stella Maris owners) )were bidding on the property themselves and were outbid.

You never answered the collapse in tourism that you referenced?

Red Clover

Sully777 wrote: »

Don't put words in my mouth. No threats ...just relating what people I know did. I would agree with you if that were the real reason but....They (Stella Maris owners) )were bidding on the property themselves and were outbid.

You never answered the collapse in tourism that you referenced?

This thread is not about tourism statistics but seeing as you want them I will give them to you. Tourists numbers visiting Ireland in 2007 were at 7.7 million and that number wasn't reached again until 2014. The figure at 2010 was 5.9 million. There WAS a collapse in the tourist industry. This talk about numbers is a diversion to divert attention away from the attempt to denigrate people who see their public duty to object to what is an undesirable reduction in overnight accommodation in Kilkee. All the bodies who were involved in formulating 'Towards a Better Kilkee', a development strategy by Clare Co Council, agreed that the tourist industry required an increase in overnight accommodation in the town. Anybody who claims to 'love' Kilkee could invest in a nice hotel or a quality B&B or an upmarket hostel. Some hope.

Sully777

You raised the numbers....

Red Clover wrote: »

but the tourism collapse came

and you have not provided the source so I'll do that for you because you are not giving accurate figures to what you quoted and your a few million out....

http://www.failteireland.ie/FailteIreland/media/WebsiteStructure/Documents/3_Research_Insights/3_General_SurveysReports/Preliminary-tourism-facts-2013_1.pdf?ext=.pdf.

Maybe you could buy any of these 3 hotels...http://www.daft.ie/clare/commercial-property/kilkee/?searchSource=commercial
or this nice big Guest House...http://www.daft.ie/sales/waters-edge-west-end-kilkee-clare/1065136/

And for yourself which might explain basic economics....the laws of supply and demand (not demand and supply!) explained...http://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/law-of-supply-demand.asp

Red Clover

Sully777 wrote: »

You raised the numbers.... and you have not provided the source so I'll do that for you because you are not giving accurate figures to what you quoted and your a few million out....

http://www.failteireland.ie/FailteIreland/media/WebsiteStructure/Documents/3_Research_Insights/3_General_SurveysReports/Preliminary-tourism-facts-2013_1.pdf?ext=.pdf.

Maybe you could buy any of these 3 hotels...http://www.daft.ie/clare/commercial-property/kilkee/?searchSource=commercial
or this nice big Guest House...http://www.daft.ie/sales/waters-edge-west-end-kilkee-clare/1065136/

And for yourself which might explain basic economics....the laws of supply and demand (not demand and supply!) explained...http://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/law-of-supply-demand.asp

I am afraid you haven't read the Failte Ireland figures correctly. As for the hotels for sale they were all built by speculators for tax breaks. Once the tax concession was over they walked away like all their ilk. I think Kilkee people have had enough of this type of person. The nice big guest house -owner, is retiring so she wants to sell. What's the problem.Once you realised that you were supporting an unpopular position and getting no public sympathy you very cleverly diverted attention away from your original smear post. By the way having studied economics at UCD I don't have to take lectures from you.

Sully777

Red Clover wrote: »

Once you realised that you were supporting an unpopular position and getting no public sympathy

You do know that this is a discussion forum?? Looking for public sympathy? Are you seriously posting to get "public sympathy"? You then call posts smear?

You might be better served reading the figures you originally quoted instead of getting into a pissing contest or telling us all what an educated person you are. Maybe you were asleep when Marcoeconomics in Semester Two was on?

While I would be happy to discuss some merits of your argument, I seem to have rattled you a bit so perhaps when you finish University and open you own business in Kilkee...you can let us all know so we can see how you get on.

Clareman

I think this thread has ran it's course.