4/11 to stay 15/8 to go initial odds UK EU Referendum

jank

djpbarry wrote: »

I presented evidence that some people believe the UK to be a dominant world power, an idea which you dismissed.

Now, here you are claiming yourself that the UK is indeed a dominant world power.

A number of false claims here.

a) the study you presented was an audit by the European Geo Strategy group, therefore it is not 'some people' but rather an independent study.

b) you presented this independent study as proof that many people in the UK wanted to re-claim its 'empire', which of course is preposterous as the study was not a survey on the attitudes of people in the UK.

c) A study that shows that a country is powerful on the world stage is not the same as having lots of people in the UK that wants Britain to re-claim its empire, as you stated.

jank

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Nobody cares about the Commonwealth. What's more, it doesn't offer the benefits of common regulation and freedom of movement that businesses need to access big markets.

Surprisingly, people do and if the UK exit the EU then I would imagine much effort being put into developing this into a more trade friendly economic block as an alternative. Now whether this would be a success or not is another thing, anyway I do not personally think this will come to pass as I think people will want to stay in the EU especially if David Cameron can get one or two concessions he can sell.

No Voter And Proud

View wrote: »

The onus lies with the person making a claim to show that it is true not on others to show that it is false. You don't have to prove you did not commit recent murders rather anyone accusing you must prove that you did.

I didn't claim anything.

micosoft wrote: »

Ah. So the EU is to blame for things it doesn't do as much as things it does do?

The UK would refuse to allow such a rule as would a number of other states. You can't just demand that 27 other countries roll over and comply with your world view.

Guilt by omission is still guilt.

View

No Voter And Proud wrote: »

I didn't claim anything.

The point is it is not up to the EU to "prove its innocence" - if a poster wants to attribute something to the EU then it is up to them to "prove its guilt".

No Voter And Proud wrote: »

Guilt by omission is still guilt.

No it is not. There is no guilt there for the EU (and indeed may fall outside its legal competence). The UK is free to address this and it does not appear to want to do so.

djpbarry

jank wrote: »

A number of false claims here.

a) the study you presented was an audit by the European Geo Strategy group, therefore it is not 'some people' but rather an independent study.

b) you presented this independent study as proof that many people in the UK wanted to re-claim its 'empire', which of course is preposterous as the study was not a survey on the attitudes of people in the UK.

c) A study that shows that a country is powerful on the world stage is not the same as having lots of people in the UK that wants Britain to re-claim its empire, as you stated.

No, I never stated anything of the sort. What I did say was that a large proportion of the British population are proud of Britain’s Imperial past, believing, on balance, that the empire was a good thing – I presented a survey in support of this.

I did also say that there are people who consider Britain to be a global power, yes. You dismissed this idea, asking me to provide you with a list of people who held this view, rather than organisations – the height of pedantry. Of course, it is now obvious that you are one of those people who hold this view.

gallag

djpbarry wrote: »

No, I never stated anything of the sort. What I did say was that a large proportion of the British population are proud of Britain’s Imperial past, believing, on balance, that the empire was a good thing – I presented a survey in support of this.

I did also say that there are people who consider Britain to be a global power, yes. You dismissed this idea, asking me to provide you with a list of people who held this view, rather than organisations – the height of pedantry. Of course, it is now obvious that you are one of those people who hold this view.

You are correct, I am British and I am indeed proud of our imperial past, why wouldn't I be? During this time period you either built an empire or became part of one, if the early Irish raiders had more success in raiding Wales and got a foothold then perhaps there would have been an Irish empire, it wasn't a choice, no one with the ability chose not to build an empire. I am often amazed that these small, damp islands literally influenced and shaped the world, such a small amount of people with so much ability.

greendom

gallag wrote: »

You are correct, I am British and I am indeed proud of our imperial past, why wouldn't I be? During this time period you either built an empire or became part of one, if the early Irish raiders had more success in raiding Wales and got a foothold then perhaps there would have been an Irish empire, it wasn't a choice, no one with the ability chose not to build an empire. I am often amazed that these small, damp islands literally influenced and shaped the world, such a small amount of people with so much ability.

I imagine plenty got away to escape from its cramped sogginess!

greendom

Silll a long way to go but this is good news or those who want the UK to stay in the EU.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/we-want-to-stay-in-eu-voters-tell-pm-10331462.html

Oldenboard

Must the UK leave the EU? Response to 10 arguments from UKIP http://iitm.be/10UKIP

ancapailldorcha

A lot of that article is unsourced which doesn't surprise me.