Naval EU Mission to mediterranean - The great migrant disaster

Larbre34

roundymac wrote: »

The Brits intend to send them back and so should we We can't even provide house's for our own people FFS.

You're missing the point of this thread, this is about a naval deployment by Ireland.

There is no question of bringing refugees directly back to Ireland on the ship anyway, they will be taken to reception centres in Italy and Malta. The EU proposals for member states to accept a quota of refugees after they have been received at their landing point is an entirely different argument for the politicians to get into.

donvito99

roundymac wrote: »

The Brits intend to send them back and so should we We can't even provide house's for our own people FFS.

The "Brits" don't intend to do anything at the moment. And the EU has as its ultimate objectives the goal of preventing these people from making the crossing in the first place.

The matter at hand is not sending them back but from preventing hundreds from drowning.

mikeym

roundymac wrote: »

The Brits intend to send them back and so should we We can't even provide house's for our own people FFS.

The refugees wouldnt be able to hack the Eithne

Boreas

The real issue here is that according to the UN the current population of Sub-Saharan Africa is 950,000 and they project it will grow to between 1,575,000 - 1,850,000 by 2040. If economic growth in the region doesn't at least match that rate of expansion it is inevitable, and perfectly understandable, that a large number of people will want to leave the area to find better economic opportunities elsewhere.

Not all of the people leaving Sub-Saharan Africa will want to come to Europe, it's likely that economic growth in India, China, etc. will make those countries attractive destinations but many people will want to come to the EU.

The EU needs to plan now for how it will handle that situation. I know some people advocate allowing fairly large scale migration into the EU but no matter how many people we allow in there will be a huge number of people without a legal route into Europe and desperate people will still risk their lives to make it in by illegal means.

The obvious solution is higher levels of economic growth in Africa but this will be extremely difficult to achieve given the ongoing governance issues and that's without thinking about the environmental impact. Some countries are doing better than others of course.

We could think about discussing population control but that basically comes down to white people telling black people to have fewer children and that is a politically impossible conversation to even try to have. For some people even mentioning it sounds racist.

So, what we are seeing in the Mediterranean this year isn't some aberration, it's the new normal.

Larbre34

Yes, all an issue, but this is just the naval discussion, the rest is politics and/or economics

ectoraige

Hopefully the crew all stay safe and are well supported, large scale recovery operations can be very traumatic.

expectationlost

LÉ Eithne to assist in Mediterranean operations http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0512/700656-le-eithne/ "The LÉ Eithne was built in Ireland as Helicopter Patrol Vessel." but doesn't use em anymore? says wikipedia, would a helicopter be any use now?

Heraldoffreeent

expectationlost wrote: »

LÉ Eithne to assist in Mediterranean operations http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0512/700656-le-eithne/ "The LÉ Eithne was built in Ireland as Helicopter Patrol Vessel." but doesn't use em anymore? says wikipedia, would a helicopter be any use now?

We don't have a Heli capeable of shipboard operations, and I'm thinking that it would be a hindrance more than a help in this case.
As it is the free deck space is better utilised for locating the PAX,were a chopper embarked, you couldn't have civis anywhere near it.

For pickups the Germans and italians seem to be using fastboats or RHibs, and the brits are using LC's rather than choppers.

For eyes over the Horizon, it might be a benefit, but the benefits wouldn't outweigh the extra hassle.

Theres a lot of ships down there now, and the Italian and Maltese choppers can provide a lot of the Intel needed.

sparky42

expectationlost wrote: »

LÉ Eithne to assist in Mediterranean operations http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0512/700656-le-eithne/ "The LÉ Eithne was built in Ireland as Helicopter Patrol Vessel." but doesn't use em anymore? says wikipedia, would a helicopter be any use now?

We don't have the skill set on board or in the Air Corps, the helicopter that's navalised (no folding rotors, crash rated fuel tanks etc), the deck now has a crane permantly mounted (and now has another Rib based on the deck). So no, if different decisions were made when she was made along with the follow ons getting built things would be different but that's missed us.

Larbre34

And she's off. Best of luck to them with the mission.

roundymac

Coming down towards the North West coast of Spain right now, doing 14.3 knots.

roundymac

This was bound to happen.
ww.bbc.com/news/world-africa-32771210

mikeym

roundymac wrote: »

Coming down towards the North West coast of Spain right now, doing 14.3 knots.

The people smugglers will be able to find the ship handy enough.

Heraldoffreeent

mikeym wrote: »

The people smugglers will be able to find the ship handy enough.

Ireeesh Guys neeeeer Span? Qweeeeeek qweeeeek!!!

roundymac

Just passed through the Straits of Gibralter.

sparky42

roundymac wrote: »

Just passed through the Straits of Gibralter.

Did she stop off for tax free shopping?:D

But serioursly, good to see this going ahead, given where she's meant to be operating I guess we won't see much sinking actions but I hope we see something...

Larbre34

sparky42 wrote: »

given where she's meant to be operating I guess we won't see much sinking actions but I hope we see something...

Huh? She will be under EU NAVFOR command for the humanitarian deployments presumably, but she hasn't been tasked with sinking traffickers boats and I couldnt imagine her being used in an offensive capacity in a million years.

The EU proposal will probably be vetoed by the UN SC and then it will be a matter for non-neutral countries within the EU to decide to approach Libya and take on the smugglers at source, probably with attack helicopters rather than littoral boats and RHIBs

Could you imagine the outcry from the lefties here if Eithne started shooting up fibreglass skiffs with the 20mm's!

Heraldoffreeent

Larbre34 wrote: »

Huh? She will be under EU NAVFOR command for the humanitarian deployments presumably, but she hasn't been tasked with sinking traffickers boats and I couldnt imagine her being used in an offensive capacity in a million years.

The EU proposal will probably be vetoed by the UN SC and then it will be a matter for non-neutral countries within the EU to decide to approach Libya and take on the smugglers at source, probably with attack helicopters rather than littoral boats and RHIBs

Could you imagine the outcry from the lefties here if Eithne started shooting up fibreglass skiffs with the 20mm's!

It's a bilateral arrangement with the Italians, nothing to do with EU navfor or FRONTEX.

Tabnabs

Not often (enough) an Irish ensign is seen here

Tabnabs

https://twitter.com/simoncoveney/status/603946935469342722

That didn't take long!

sparky42

Breaking news now calling it 200 rescued...
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/irish-naval-flagship-rescues-more-than-200-migrants-679256.html

Heraldoffreeent

Seems like a busy period for the Eithne, a second recovery operation last night, this time the pickup was from a barge.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32927794

Larbre34

Great work by the officers and crew, may they stay safe in all their work.

If this is the rate of work, they might have to look at relief crew and/or vessel earlier than planned

sparky42

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

Seems like a busy period for the Eithne, a second recovery operation last night, this time the pickup was from a barge.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32927794

On IMO there's suggestions of another pick up this morning of 100 as well. Busy time for the crew.

Heraldoffreeent

sparky42 wrote: »

On IMO there's suggestions of another pick up this morning of 100 as well. Busy time for the crew.

Yeah, I see that on Facebook, seemed to be at about 9.00am/10.00am our time, the one I linked to was about 12.00 last night.

mikeym

Eithne is headed to Palermo to drop off refugees.

(source rte news)

Peregrine

Couple of short clips from DF's YouTube channel.

mikeym

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0607/706405-migrants-mediterranean/

The Irish naval vessel LÉ Eithne has been directed by Italian authorities to travel to Taranto Port in Italy to transfer the 399 migrants who are currently aboard the ship.

Having rescued 310 migrants on a barge yesterday morning, later in the day LÉ Eithne successfully located and rescued additional migrants on two inflatable crafts, with 89 people on board, 75km north of Libya.

The ship will be deployed in the Mediterranean for a period of up to six months over the summer period, subject to the operational demands and requirements arising in the region.

Larbre34

Irish Times reporting LÉ Eithne will return home at the end of July to be replaced by LÉ Niamh.

I would have thought that will drop carrying capacity substantially? LÉ Sam not better for the job? Or is she suffering the Appledore gremlins?

In any case, crew of Eithne deserve a big reception for working to the highest standards for the longest hours in stifling conditions, a remarkable performance.

sparky42

Larbre34 wrote: »

Irish Times reporting LÉ Eithne will return home at the end of July to be replaced by LÉ Niamh.

I would have thought that will drop carrying capacity substantially? LÉ Sam not better for the job? Or is she suffering the Appledore gremlins?

In any case, crew of Eithne deserve a big reception for working to the highest standards for the longest hours in stifling conditions, a remarkable performance.

I don't think there's any question that carryng numbers will drop, but I don't think we could have kept Eithne out there, and yeah the Crew deserves a hell of of a well done for their actions and performance.

I think there's suggestions that Sam is having some issues alright, hopefully though the Eithne's actions will support the argument for the EPV/frigate in the WP.